Help request: 45acp 200 gr SWC load for 1911 full size

[guy_with_boolits]

I'd like to find a good starting point, this is my first casting session ever. I have a few weeks of reloading under my belt for 45 acp but only the most basic load.

So here are my components:

LEE 90379 200gn 45ACP SWC 6 cav mold
Probably 8BHN lead (about 3% tin alloy I believe)
Full size 1911 (non ramped barrel)

Powders:
HS-6
IMR RED
BULLSEYE

Lube/PC:
No PC at the moment. Just alox.

Gas checks:
I dont have any.

Brass:
small and large primer, random headstamp range pickups (I have both primer types)

I'm just looking for a load that is fast enough to be worth shooting but also reliably cycles the action and has no feeding issues. (So I suppose OAL will play a role here both for feeding and pressure)

thanks for any help, hopefully I have the right ingredients because I'd like to start cooking something up today

[quilbilly]

Others have had trouble getting SWC's to feed but if yours does, 4.5 gr of Bullseye ought to do what you want.

[guy_with_boolits]

to prove I am making an effort, the Alliant site says:

Powder: Bullseye
Bullet: 200gr speer LSWC
Min OAL: 1.19
Bbl length: 5
Charge weight: 4.6gn
Fps: 807

Seems like the OAL would be the main factor here to get right for feeding and pressure?

[guy_with_boolits]

Others have had trouble getting SWC's to feed but if yours does, 4.5 gr of Bullseye ought to do what you want.

okay thanks!! what about OAL?

[megasupermagnum]

Any 1911 worth anything will feed that Lee SWC. My Sig P220 will cycle that bullet down to about 700 fps, below that I'd need a lighter recoil spring. HS6 is a good choice for full power stuff, not target ammo. No idea on IMR Red, likely just like Red Dot. Bullseye though, is a 45 acp classic. I've seen good results from 3.5 to 5 grains, most in that 4 to 4.6 grain range.

[Conditor22]

OAL is what works best in your gun, each gun is a little different (seat boolits in dummy cases and see what the longest boolit that chambers and cycles is)

BE start at 4gr and work up

[jsizemore]

Plunk test will tell you COAL.

[guy_with_boolits]

Any 1911 worth anything will feed that Lee SWC. My Sig P220 will cycle that bullet down to about 700 fps, below that I'd need a lighter recoil spring. HS6 is a good choice for full power stuff, not target ammo. No idea on IMR Red, likely just like Red Dot. Bullseye though, is a 45 acp classic. I've seen good results from 3.5 to 5 grains, most in that 4 to 4.6 grain range.

excellent info thank you very much

[megasupermagnum]

OAL, you may have to play with. Most like 1.250". Some have to go shorter due to a non existent throat in the barrel. I've gone as long as 1.265".

[guy_with_boolits]

OAL is what works best in your gun, each gun is a little different (seat boolits in dummy cases and see what the longest boolit that chambers and cycles is)

BE start at 4gr and work up


Plunk test will tell you COAL.


thanks!!!! at the very least I can do the feeding tests today

[Dusty Bannister]

Many can tell you what works well in their firearm with their cast bullet but you need to find out what you need for YOUR firearm with YOUR bullet. It is not unusual to have minor changes in production of any of the items used so here is one old and proven method to find out what your components need. And remember that when you change from bullet lube to powder coat the OAL can change again.


Cleaning rod/dowel method of finding cartridge OAL

This is what I use for my guns to determine the max OAL and this eliminates any question of the crimp, incorrect case prep, or other operator induced error.

This method works well on rifles and single shot pistols as well as Semi-autos. You can use a flat tipped cleaning rod, or flat tipped dowel rod. You will also need a sharp pointed pencil, a short dowel and a bullet sized but clean, of the type you are going to load.

For Rifles
Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.

The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.

For Semi-autos
Remove the barrel from the slide and make sure it is clean and free of leading or other debris in the barrel and chamber. The dowel or cleaning rod needs to be longer than the barrel. Hold the barrel, muzzle up, and place the barrel hood on a flat surface like a table top. Insert the dowel or rod from the muzzle and mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove the rod and insert the bullet you intend to use into the chamber and lightly press and hold it in place with the short dowel. Place the assy muzzle up on the flat surface. Insert the rod/dowel into the muzzle so it rests on the nose of the bullet and again mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove and set the barrel aside. The distance on the center of the two lines is the cartridge OAL. Seat a dummy round to this length, or slightly shorter and begin to apply the taper crimp until the dummy passes the plunk test. This is the optimum cartridge OAL length for this bullet in this gun.

You may need to adjust the seater to shorten the OAL if this does not feed from the magazine, but generally this will be a great fit. Remember, if you seat and crimp in one step, you might force a slight ridge ahead of the case mouth and that will screw up your seating.
Dusty

[quilbilly]

You may be asking the wrong guy. I use 45 ACP's in either a T/C Contender or a Ruger Blackhawk convertible. It is my understanding that some 45 ACP semi's catch the edge of the SWC's occasionally causing a failure to feed. I once had a 9mm Semi. that sometimes had that issue but once I switched to round nose or RF's, the problem disappeared. Arthritis in my wrists makes racking a slide a struggle now so I prefer wheels guns now. If your seater is set to factory spec's, OAL should be right to get started.

[gwpercle]

Just a little "look out for" ... my experience with the 90379 tumble lube didn't go well .
My 45 acp , AMT Hardballer has standard old school shallow rifling and the tumble lube mould dropped boolits that were not fat enough or the multiple grooves just didn't hold the rifling well enough .
For whatever reason I was getting poor accuracy and some holes were oblong. I don't powder coat so had no way to make the larger . I bought a NOE .453 SWC conventional lube groove mould and that solved all the accuracy problems . Just wanted you to know about the problem .
Gary

[Alstep]

Hate to tell you, but I never had any luck with the short nosed SWC that you're attempting to use. You'd be better served with any of the H&G 68 style molds. I'm using that boolit cast 50/50 Pb/ww, sized .452, NRA lube, loaded with 4.0 grains of Bullseye, taper crimped to .468/.470, 1.250 OAL. Nice mild load, accurate, and runs through my Colt, Kimber, & GI 1911's. Give it a try, good luck.

[megasupermagnum]

Oh, I thought this was the H&G #68 clone. In that case, my above advice may not apply. I was speaking for the Lee 452-200-SWC. The tumble lube version may be a whole other ball game.

[ioon44]

I tried to use a Lee 452-200-SWC and found the tip of the nose was smaller than a H&G 68. This caused feeding problems in my guns that run H&G 68 with out any problems, so I got rid of the Lee 452-200-SWC.
So if you have problems get some H&G 68 bullets to see if they work better.

[onelight]

The Lee tl-452-200 shoots good in some of my guns and not others , he will just have to try it and see what works.
I do have to load it to a short OAL , and wind up with just a tiny bit of the front driving band proud of the case to get it to plunk test in all my guns.

[Petrol & Powder]

The Lee tl-452-200 shoots good in some of my guns and not others , he will just have to try it and see what works.
I do have to load it to a short OAL , and wind up with just a tiny bit of the front driving band proud of the case to get it to plunk test in all my guns.

I can't speak to the Lee TL-452-200 but with the H& #68 clone, the advice about the "tiny bit of the front driving band proud of the case" is spot on. The highly technical measurement is about the width of a fingernail.

[onelight]

I can't speak to the Lee TL-452-200 but with the H& #68 clone, the advice about the "tiny bit of the front driving band proud of the case" is spot on. The highly technical measurement is about the width of a fingernail.
Hey , us guys with limited vocabulary's cain't keep up with all these fancy new terms :grin:

[skeet1]

Another good SWC is Lyman 452460 (?). It has a shorter and more blunt nose and may not work in your gun but works great in mine and so does the Lee.

[DougGuy]

Also check your barrel for freebore, if the rifling runs right down to the chamber mouth like many do, then you will have to seat deeper to get rounds to "plunk" (google plunk test) and this will cause 3 point jams and other feeding issues in the 1911. The proper thing to do is have the barrel throated then you can use any style of boolit or any COA you want to, as long as it cycles through the magazine.

Lots of people overlook this and end up with short ammo because there is no throat in the barrel, some just assume well it must just be the barrel, I need to seat deeper, and this is not the correct approach. Yes it will get it to feed in most cases, but *IF* the barrel had the freebore called for in SAAMI specs to begin with, there wouldn't be a COA issue at all. Just sayin'

[DonHowe]

Any 1911 worth anything will feed that Lee SWC. My Sig P220 will cycle that bullet down to about 700 fps, below that I'd need a lighter recoil spring. HS6 is a good choice for full power stuff, not target ammo. No idea on IMR Red, likely just like Red Dot. Bullseye though, is a 45 acp classic. I've seen good results from 3.5 to 5 grains, most in that 4 to 4.6 grain range.
In my experience with Bullseye, charges from 4.0 gen down increase likelihood of failures to return fully to battery with the stock 16 lb recoil spring.
I loaded 3.8 gr Bullseye with H&G 68 sec for years. With an 11 lb spring my gun functioned fine. When old age forced me to mount a red Dot sight on the slide the combo that worked was 4.3 gr Bullseye and a 14 lb spring.

The only mod to the feed ramp was polishing.

[Burnt Fingers]

I'd like to find a good starting point, this is my first casting session ever. I have a few weeks of reloading under my belt for 45 acp but only the most basic load.

So here are my components:

LEE 90379 200gn 45ACP SWC 6 cav mold
Probably 8BHN lead (about 3% tin alloy I believe)
Full size 1911 (non ramped barrel)

Powders:
HS-6
IMR RED
BULLSEYE

Lube/PC:
No PC at the moment. Just alox.

Gas checks:
I dont have any.

Brass:
small and large primer, random headstamp range pickups (I have both primer types)

I'm just looking for a load that is fast enough to be worth shooting but also reliably cycles the action and has no feeding issues. (So I suppose OAL will play a role here both for feeding and pressure)

thanks for any help, hopefully I have the right ingredients because I'd like to start cooking something up today

3.8 gr of IMR Red is a very nice soft shooting load.

If I were you I'd powder coat those TL bullets. BTW, the TL mold is NOT a H&G 68 clone. Not even close. The 90310 is the H&G 68BB clone.

The problem is many of those TL boolits are going to be undersized for most barrels. This can cause terrible leading.

As far as OAL. The longest your gun will handle.

[DocSavage]

Don't own any Lee molds but I do have molds from RCBS,Saeco. Both are 200gr swc cast dia .454 I size mine .452 the Saeco is a bevel base so minimum case mouth expansion is needed. If I may I would suggest getting a mold from NOE or Accurate,granted more money for them but they will cast to the diameter on the block. Heard too many stories about Lee blocks casting undersize .

[oldsalt444]

4.1-4.3 gr. BE with a 200 gr. SWC will give you an accurate and soft shooting load. It's a standard bullseye competition load. With lighter springs you can go lower.

Personally, I never liked the Lee 200 gr. tumble lube bullet. It just wasn't large enough diameter. Now the Lee copy of the H&G 68 is much better IMO.

[DonHowe]

Any 1911 worth anything will feed that Lee SWC. My Sig P220 will cycle that bullet down to about 700 fps, below that I'd need a lighter recoil spring. HS6 is a good choice for full power stuff, not target ammo. No idea on IMR Red, likely just like Red Dot. Bullseye though, is a 45 acp classic. I've seen good results from 3.5 to 5 grains, most in that 4 to 4.6 grain range.
In my experience with Bullseye, charges from 4.0 gen down increase likelihood of failures to return fully to battery with the stock 16 lb recoil spring.
I loaded 3.8 gr Bullseye with H&G 68 sec for years. With an 11 lb spring my gun functioned fine. When old age forced me to mount a red Dot sight on the slide the combo that worked was 4.3 gr Bullseye and a 14 lb spring.

The only mod to the feed ramp was polishing.
I have no idea what my oal/col is as I never measured it. With the barrel out of the gun, held muzzle down, seething depth is adjusted so that the case head is flush with the barrel hood, in fact head spacing the round on the front driving band. I know, the .45 acp headspace on the case mouth, except when it doesn't (I have never found a .45 case anywhere near as long as the chamber). Seating depth can be tweaked as needed if feeding requires it.