.308 Shooter?

[schutzen]

I'm setting up a .308 Winchester rifle for my son to hunt mule deer & elk with.

I have not hunted with .308 that much and would like some advise on the optimum magnification for the .308 as a hunting rifle. I am currently considering the Leopold 3.5X10 50mm VAR-III.

Any .308 shooters with some sage advise?

[JSnover]

I love my Leupold 3-9 but I don't think I've ever used more than 6x for hunting.

[big boar]

When I was working up a load for my 308 I was getting 1 1/2" 5 shot groups at 200 yards using a 1.75-6 Leupold. I then put on a 3.5-10 Leupold and could get 1.1" 3 shot group a 300 yards. But these are all shot from a bench not in the field. In my opinion you don't need anything over 4 or 6 X for shooting big game. Extra magnification just gives more wobble in the game field.

[Urny]

In the fourty years since I got out of the Army, a .308 has been my most commonly used deer rifle, usually a Savage 99 or Winchester 88 but also including a couple of Colt-Sakos' and a Remington 788. I've killed little more than twenty five mule deer with the caliber, so my experience may not be as full as some. I have always used a 4X scope, no variables, and found it to be plenty. Maybe our average range in Northeastern Nevada's Great Basin is a little shorter than wherever your son lives?

[Doc Highwall]

I like low power scopes myself and have a lot of scopes that are 1.5x-6x42mm. My scopes have 64.7 foot field of view at 100 yards at 1.5x, my Leupold 3.5x-10x have a 29.5 foot field of view at 3.5x. To me field of view is more important for a big game scope.

[GabbyM]

Weaver 1 x 3 power.
You can shoot with both eyes open when set on 1X.
3 X is enough to hit chicken eggs at 200 yards.
Leupold would be good too. But then the price gets close to what an Aimpoint M3 cost.

[S.R.Custom]

A 3x9 will fill the bill nicely... if left at 3x.

And I say that because at 3x, it's lower power than a straight 4x, and the objective is a LOT larger. Which means it's a lot nicer at dawn/dusk than a straight 4x.

[schutzen]

Part of my problem is where he lives. It changes every 3 years. He is at Ft. Sill, OK right now.
Plus I deer hunt with iron sights and only use a scope on varmits. I'll check out the lower powered units.

Thanks for the advise,

Steve

[Larry Gibson]

schutzen

I've done a lot of deer, caribou, sheep and elk hunting with a .308W and 30-06 and killed a lot of them with those two cartridges. Mostly they've always worn 3x9 power scopes. In 40 years of hunting with scoped rifles I've shot 6 big game animals beyond 200 yards. Those were the only shots taken at big game where the scope was off 3X. Four of the six I could have done just as well with the power still on 3.

Something to be said for the simplicity of a straight 4X. Not a "cool" scope or a crew served scope but a very efficient and effective choice for 98% of all big game hunting.

Larry Gibson

[Mumblypeg]

The 3x 10vari xIII X50 is a great all round scope, more power than you need most of the time but it's there if you want to take a closer look. It has great light gathering ability for late hours. I run one most of the time with the power ajustment nob strait up at about 6power if I recall and do most shooting there as I believe it gives best light and clarity as with most vari power scopes, Leupolds anyway( is there anything else?) As for .308, Yea it will do the job...BTW... I make head or neck shots most.

[dale2242]

Go with a 3-9. Keep it on 3-5 power when your shots will be close. Crank it up for longer shots or when you want to take a look.---dale

[Bret4207]

1x4, 4x max. If you give him a 10X scope he'll do what everyone else does. He'll look through the scope and take a shot he shouldn't because the magnification allows his mind to make him think he can hit it. Not good for him, not good for the game.

[corvette8n]

Leupold is renaming the VX-III to VX-3 so every supplier is putting them on sale,
I got emails from Midsouth and Midwayusa for VX-III's on sale.

[carpetman]

Schutzen---I have the 3.5-10 you mentioned on my .243 and I like it. What rifle are you putting the scope on? To me the beauty of the .308 is the short action and it works better in actions other than bolt. If going bolt action, I see no reason to not go 30-06. I had a win 88 in .308 that I gave my grandson. It has a Leupold compact 2x-7x. He has taken hogs,axis deer ,bobcat and a truckload of white tail with it and pretty much all one shot kills.

[kir_kenix]

10x is more magnification needed in any hunting situation I can think of outside of varmints. I'm a big fan of low power scopes, and I like to shoot with both eyes open. I like to keep it simple, so not having to mess with my scope (when I'm using one anyway) is a big part of that. Lupie 1.75x20mm safari or 2.5x20mm are my personal favorites.

that 3.5-10x50 will probably be a terrific scope if left on lower power for hunting, and maybe higher magnification for bench/load development work. I've never been a big fan of 50 or 60 mm scopes on hunting guns, because they are usually quite a bit larger/heavier then the equivelent 30-40mm scope. I suppose they do collect more light then smaller objective scopes, but I've never had a real problem. Also scopes that have a smaller range of magnification seem to do better in low light then those with massive variables.

Anyway, I guess it really just depends on how you are planning on doing your hunting/shooting. Your son will just need to remember that 10x is alot of magnification, and it is harder to stay on a moving target at regular hunting range then it is at 3-6x.

[runfiverun]

most of my hunting rifles wear 3x9's most of them have bdc reticles also.
the areas where i hunt demand variable power or a switch of rifles.
i can shoot across a canyon or drop off a ridge and be busting brush so the ability to take long or short shots is a must.
my newest rifle wears a 1.5x5 and it is accurate enough to hit 4x4 steel plates at 300 yds with boring regularity.
being able to read wind and get close enough to make a good shot is more important then the high power of a scope.

[schutzen]

Carpetman;

I ordered a Savage 14 American Classic in .308 Wincherster. There are alot of arguments for and against Savage rifles, but I have 3 and all are tack drivers right out of the box. And before everyone jumps on the band wagon, I also have Remingtons, Winchesters, and Brownings in my stable, but dollar for dollar the Savage is tough to beat. When they came out with the Accu-trigger they kicked some a**.

[Bret4207]

Every kid I know, especially my own son, Sir Whines Alot, cranks the scopes up as high as they go. I think 2.5X is enough for any eastern deer hunting.

[mike in co]

i aint a hunter so lets start with that.

i shoot alot of mil rifle matches where ocassionally a 4x scope is allowed. it is amazing just how good 4x is at 100/200 yds.

as one other person mentioned working up a load is the advantage of a variable. for years i just swapped scopes for load development, but just recently i have hit a run of very good weaver and redfield variables( old school...texas and denver). i have slowly replaced 4x's with 3-9x , 4-12x, and one very nice redfield 6-18x. this allows me to develope loads with little error by the shooter, but still drop down to the max allowed in a match. (the 6-18 is used at 6x in a hunter class match).

so if just hunting...4-6 x fixed sounds good to me, but if reloading enters the pic then go to a nice variable.

the better names in the biz should provide an advantage for early am/late pm shooting, during good light...they all seem good.

mike in co

[carpetman]

Schutzen---Your question was about the scope only and you mentioned you Ordered--as in a done deal. Nothing wrong with Savage---as a personal preference and price probably about the same, I'd probably have gone with a CZ. Because you are going bolt, not really taking advantage of the short cartridge--so again personal--I'd have gone 30-06. 30-06 probably wont do a thing the .308 wont do. I'd certainly go Leupold,whichever you pick.

[bobk]

schutzen,
Here's a thought: What's he used to using? This can make a difference. I grew up on a 3X9, still have that scope. Put a 1 3/4X5 Burris on my .375 when I got it, and proceeded to shoot overtop of a few deer. They looked so small, I would unconsciously crank in more elevation, and blow the shot. Nowadays, for the bigger guns, I have settled on a straight 6X. But that's just me. Again, it might be better to stay with whatever he is familiar with.

Bob K

[Boerrancher]

There is nothing wrong with a 308 or a Savage. I have always liked Savage rifles and found that for the money there is nothing that shoots better. I have a Sav 99 in a 300 Savage, a twin to the 308, and that rifle has taken just about every 4 legged critter in North America. I use the Speer 130 gr HP for white tale and Mulies, and the 150 gr Sierra Game King for Elk and Moose. Anything within 400 yards is meat in the pot. I have only shot at one game animal that ever got away from me and that was because I hit a large branch that I didn't see in the scope. I have a 2.5 to 7 Redfield made in Denver on it. I never saw the need to change it. 7 power is good enough for the range and I hunt with it on 2.5.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[schutzen]

There are a lot of issues that come into play with this choice/purchase.

My "little boy" is 25 years old. He has hunted for 15 years and is a good marksman. He already has several rifles, but his center fires are limited to .223 and .357. He is looking for something that will give him the power to hunt the larger deer and elk found in the west & north. His .223 is a Savage and he is well pleased with it. Part of why we chose the Savage is compatibility. When he chose the .308 caliber, part of the influence may have been that Dad just bought 600 rounds of factory .308 155 grain SP at a sale and Dad doesn't shoot a .308. Guess who gets 600 rounds of ammo with his rifle. The Savage 14 American Classic (polished blue/walnut stock) was $550 out the door and the AccuTrigger is sweet.

Guy’s I really appreciate everyone’s comments. My big game hunting has been limited to eastern white tail deer and a couple of runty hogs. All were shot in the Ohio or Mississippi River bottoms in thick cover. I use open sights. This is a special Christmas for him and I’m trying to make it one he will remember with great fondness.

[carpetman]

well your son already picked brand and cal---why not let him pick scope too? We wont pick his nose.

[felix]

I can add only one thing: A scope over 4 power implies "target" shooting. Target shooting requires the scope to have the ability to correct a light path error. Cross hairs can easily be off a FULL INCH at a hunnert. Much like changing the focal point (focus). It is called AO capability on scopes. ... felix

[schutzen]

Carpetman,

He has the same scope experince as his Dad, neither of us has used a scope big game hunting. We, now just I, live in prime white tail deer country but it is thick brush and close shots for the best deer.

[trk]

I have the 1899 or 99 in .300, .308 and .358 all with IRON sights.

I've done a 0.3" three shot group at 100 yds with a 7-08 with a 4x Weaver.

But I do like up around 18 or 20x for little critters (with .308 in a 40X) at 100-450 yards.

[atr]

alot depends on the type of hunting terrain you are in....is it long open shooting or are you in brush? most deer shots are made within 150 yards. My personal recommendation is fixed power say 4x or max 6x with the widest possible field of vision. Note also that the better quality scopes have superior optics and are much better at gathering light. I shoot my 308 with a 6x Leupold....but I have found Burris a very good scope....Weavers arnt bad either...

[bobk]

One of the reasons lower powered scopes initially became popular was because when people first started scoping their hunting rifles, the rifles were not stocked for such usage; the combs were too low. The lower powered scopes with their wider light pencil made it easier to find the reticle, and the intended quarry. This problem is not so bad with modern rifles, assuming that you haven't mounted one of those abominable "see-through" mounts. However, there is still a need to test for gun fit, and it's easy. Holding the unloaded rifle at port arms, select a target in a safe direction. Focus on your chosen target, then close your eyes. Mount the rifle, and then open your eyes. If the gun fits you well, you should be looking through the scope at the target. This sort of fit allows you to mount the gun much as you would a shotgun. The proper mount results in you putting the scope between your eye and the target, not hunting around in the scope for the game.

With this sort of fit, the power of the scope, within reason, makes little difference. The object is not to look at all the space around the game; all you want to see are the crosshairs planted on your intended aiming point. Increased power may enable you to aim more precisely, at longer distances. In fact, it's beneficial. If you select a 3X, and whack a deer at 35 yards, it will look about TWICE the size of the last shot I made with the .257, with the scope set on 9X. obviously a 200+ shot. This is why I selected a 4X16 for my 6.5X55. I will never need more than 16X, if it's even usable, nor will I need less that 4X. I kinda think that a Leupold 4.5X14-40 would be all the scope you might ever need, for anything. But the gun must fit you!

Bob K

[carpetman]

Back when--even before cell phones or internet--the big debate in a hunting scope was 4x or 6x and which way a person leaned on that seemed guided by open or brushy country. Variables were expensive then. The price on variables has came down. Fixed power have become more of the specialty item. They don't sell as many fixed power and in my books there is good reason for that---thus a fixed power is higher accordingly. The main thing that determines a scopes ability in low lighting is the exit diameter. This is a ratio of the power of the scope to the diameter of the objective lens( the big lens at front of scope). Works same way on binoculars too. For example if you have a 40MM objective lens and a 3x-9x power---at 9X you have a 4.444 MM exit.(40 divided by 9) At 3x you have a 13.333MM exit (40 divided by 3). Once this exit matches the actual size of your pupil---you gain no more going bigger. A persons pupil gets smaller as they age. Take your variable powered scope out at night and start on highest power and it might brighten some as you decrease power but it reaches a point and gets no brighter. A youngster would be able to use some of the increased gain over what an old geezer like Scrounger could use--but they don't need it--Scrounger needs all the help he can get in every dept.--most beyond help I might add.

[Scrounger]

Scrounger doesn't wear glasses, unlike a certain party we know who ruined his vision before discovering sheep could be used for something other than making wool...

[felix]

Isn't the typical eye pupil around 7mm? Older folks around 5 or 6?. As measured in dim light? ... felix

[carpetman]

Sounds about right felix. Go to a theater with a youngster--they'll be spotting their friends all over the place while an older person still trying to see the floor. Takes an older person longer to adjust. They tell cops if possible to keep one eye closed before they enter a bar where a brawl or something going on that way they can see a little.

[carpetman]

Scrounger--"sheep can be used for something other than making wool". Sheep can make wool? How do they ever do that? Is it hard to train them?

[Scrounger]

Scrounger--"sheep can be used for something other than making wool". Sheep can make wool? How do they ever do that? Is it hard to train them?

You tell me, you're the sheep "husbandry" expert...

[Bob Krack]

I'm setting up a .308 Winchester rifle for my son to hunt mule deer & elk with.

I have not hunted with .308 that much and would like some advise on the optimum magnification for the .308 as a hunting rifle. I am currently considering the Leopold 3.5X10 50mm VAR-III.
When I used to hunt - remember, all my guns were lost when the boat sank - I used a .270 Mauser actioned rifle. I used the Leopold 1X4 and was extremely happy with it. I also mounted it using "see thru" rings thinking that a short range "snap" shot might better be accomplished with the iron sights.

Several pros and cons here.

I think you choose a good caliber, considering the Leopold is a good choice in my opinion, but I think a 1X4 or 1.5X4or5 or the 2X7 would give you all the versatility you would need.

My .02 worth.

[bobk]

carpetman,
If you are not adverse to taking vitamins, or in this case, minerals, start taking a zinc tablet morning and night. It may limit your HDL cholesterol, but watch how your night vision improves. Proof of concept: stop taking it, go back to being blind as a bat at night. Pick the one you like better.
Bob K

[mike in co]

I can add only one thing: A scope over 4 power implies "target" shooting. Target shooting requires the scope to have the ability to correct a light path error. Cross hairs can easily be off a FULL INCH at a hunnert. Much like changing the focal point (focus). It is called AO capability on scopes. ... felix


naw....over 30x is target shooting.......( 4-5 of my rifles are so equipt)

ok the mil used 10x a lot( yes earlier were less) the current SEAL sniper scope is a variable.....out to 20-22x.....this is on the new issue accuracy intl rifle.

again i do not hunt, well does steel and paper count...at known distances....?


in three gun competition i use a 2x dot or a ...guess what....a 3-9x.

mike in co

[azrednek]

I have a Sav 99 in a 300 Savage, a twin to the 308, and that rifle has taken just about every 4 legged critter in North America.

Joe

The absolute best hunter I know personally, uses either a bow or his very old and well used Model 99 in 300 Savage. His Model 99 looks like it lost a fist fight, it is really beat up and looks neglected. He has taken just about every large game animal I'm aware of in North America with the exception of Polar Bear and Big Horn Sheep. If you try arguing with this guy about the 300 Savage being under powered he will show pictures of the Bison he took with a single shot through the neck.

[FAsmus]

Schutzen;

Scopes are a passing fad; don't bother with them, just go ahead and set a nice Lyman 17A on the front and a good Williams "TR" receiver sight on the back. You'll never regret it.

Good evening,
Forrest

[Hardcast416taylor]

According to my count, yes I can still count, only 3 of the above threads on 2 pages back my feelings for a 2 1/2 x 7 power scope. Everybody else seems to lean toward the 3x9 or higher power models. And yet most said "I never needed it higher than 6X! I only have 1 3x9 scope, a present from the frau. All of my other scoped rifles have either 2 1/2 x 7 or lesser powerful models on them, about 15 at last count in the safe. Even my .416 Taylor has a 1 1/2 x 5X on it. My most common scope is a 4X or a few 3X set power scopes. You have to think weight and managability of the rifle with the scope on it before you get into the middle of nowhere and decide you don`t like what you`ve got! When you do get something mounted, make up some dummy rounds with sand or lead shot for powder and load up the rifle and take a LONG hike with it. You`ll soon see if you like what you put on the rifle. :confused: [smilie=1: Robert