PID 2600W hot plate finished!

[guy_with_boolits]

So a few days ago I got my first bullet mold but all I had was a 10lb lee bottom pour pot and all of you told me to not use it for melting range scrap.

SOOOO, I looked around my parts bins and cobbled together a PID 2600W hot plate so I can melt range scrap!

Finally got it together today. The parts are:

-2600W 8" range element (new from amazon $10)
-Matching electrical socket for that range element ($7)
-Omega PID controller with Type K thermocouple input
-Type K thermocouple with 6" 1/16" diameter stainless probe
-25A 250V solid state relay
-Large steel box to use as enclosure for electronics (previously had fused disconnect inside, gutted it)
-Various wires, cables, terminal strip, 250V plug, electrician j-box and cable strain reliefs, etc..
-Big stainless pot from garage sale
-Jacket-catching ladle made from piece of wood with 1/4" mesh
-Spoon
-30 lbs of jacketed range scrap



I tested it today and it worked great! Probably heats up about 25lbs of jacketed range scrap in about 30 mins or so.

I tried PID tuning it but it was taking forever so I just gave up and set it to 75% fixed duty cycle. That seemed to hover around 650F. I put the thermocouple probe in about 1/4" off the bottom of the pot.

Note: anyone considering this should know it would be alot easier to just buy a scrapped electric range. I dont really think the PID is needed. The temperature measurement is nice though. But you can probably get it to the right temperature just adjusting a non-PID control like that on a range. Also if you try making this, make sure to properly ground bond EVERY piece of metal. A more solid construction using EMT or armored cable would be better.

Anyways things were going well for awhile. After lead got molten I started using my ladle to get the jackets out. Then I used the spoon to get the dirt out.

Thats where I realized I didn't really know what I was doing. I tossed in a tea light candle which sent tons of wax vapor into the air for about 5 minutes. I started to scrape with the spoon to get the "dross" but after about 15 minutes of that I noticed it seemed to be endless and I had a growing pile of it.

Thats when I realized it was actually lead oxide I was scraping off the surface and it would keep forming forever, and I was just scooping out good lead. So I dumped most of what I had scooped off back in, forced it to melt with the spoon, and then scraped off the little pile of actual dirt it left.

At this point I dont really know if the pot of lead I have is clean enough to use or if it needs more fluxing / cleaning. How can I tell?

I have a bullet mold coming from UPS any minute, and if I knew what I was doing, I could get some good lead out of my smelter and then put it into my lee 10lb pot and be making boolits for the first time!!!! PLEASE HELP

(NOTE the lead in the pictures is only about 200F, it was after I did everything I described above and let it air cool for about 30 mins)

https://i.postimg.cc/wByxPLdd/20200727-164351.jpg (https://postimg.cc/XZW0BZJ2)

https://i.postimg.cc/hPsG7K0N/20200727-164426.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vc1yJFkv)

https://i.postimg.cc/5th9MyxQ/20200727-164431.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7CNr3xJq)

https://i.postimg.cc/RV4FFWwc/20200727-164514.jpg (https://postimg.cc/t7vyvCST)

https://i.postimg.cc/x1d1vBx8/20200727-164547.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rKvTcZL2)

[onelight]

After you drop the wax in if it does not ignite , lite it with a match the flame on top will help the smell and consume most of the gas it gives off , stir it a lot while fluxing trying to work it down in the bottom of the pot .
If you flux to much it won't hurt a thing other than wasting flux but more often is better than not often enough.
Scrape the inside of the pot good when fluxing to get the junk clinging to the sides and bottom loose.
And pour it in your ingot mold.
That is a good job on that home grown hot plate . I like it !

[poppy42]

Ah just curious why are you just buya Lee lead pot? Seems like a lot of work to me. But as I always say to each his own

[guy_with_boolits]

Ah just curious why are you just buya Lee lead pot? Seems like a lot of work to me. But as I always say to each his own

I was told I should reserve my lee lead pot for already clean lead and not melt range scrap in it

[guy_with_boolits]

After you drop the wax in if it does not ignite , lite it with a match the flame on top will help the smell and consume most of the gas it gives off , stir it a lot while fluxing trying to work it down in the bottom of the pot .
If you flux to much it won't hurt a thing other than wasting flux but more often is better than not often enough.
Scrape the inside of the pot good when fluxing to get the junk clinging to the sides and bottom loose.
And pour it in your ingot mold.
That is a good job on that home grown hot plate . I like it !

Okay thanks

But now I am thinking I should just use sawdust anyway since its apparently superior to candles

[onelight]

Okay thanks

But now I am thinking I should just use sawdust anyway since its apparently superior to candles

It's not superior it's more available and free no matter what you use if the smoke does not ignite you want to lite it.

[guy_with_boolits]

It's not superior it's more available and free no matter what you use if the smoke does not ignite you want to lite it.

roger that will attempt

[Neverhome]

What makes you think you created lead oxide?
It’s always been my understanding that substantially more heat than your 650 degrees would be required. Something like 800-900 degrees. Internet seems to substantiate. Yeah yeah, internet blah blah blah.
Range scrap contains anything and everything. I’d think it more likely to be oxidized tin or just antimony that didn’t want to mix in. Flux is your friend.

Great project! Who cares if buying a used range is easier? Looks to me like you have more fun creating than looking for easy anyway. Good stuff.

[lar45]

I like it, great job on the build.

After getting the dirt out, I would ladel out some lead into ingots to put into your Lee pot.
When your mold gets there, try casting some boolits and see how they come out. If you have little flecks of black or dirt in the boolits, then you need to flux more.
Like was already said above, be sure to use the spoon to push the flux down into the lead and scrape the bottom and sides to float all of the dirt to the top and spoon it out. Wear good gloves, the spoon gets hot fast.

[Conditor22]

Nice job on your DIY smelting setup

Here are the tools I use for smelting, others have their own preferences
pine sawdust, wax, DIY dipper, skimmer, scraper, whisk for mixing flux in, BBQ spoon for string and skimming, small ladle, Stainless Steel Mesh Strainer for removing big pieces, channel lock pliers for moving molds and misc.

Most of these items were bought from thrift stores.

Using only well fluxed/clean alloy in your casting pot will help prevent the spout from plugging up and give you smoother boolits

[it would help if I posted the picture :killingpc]
https://i.imgur.com/DcWKybA.jpg

[gwpercle]

If anyone wants to take the easy way out ...
Lee Magnum Melter (110 V.) $61.99 w/ free shipping ( check Amazon) .
True it doesn't have a PID but I find it's not really necessary .
Gary

[fcvan]

Dude, that thing is JUNK! Send it to me and I will help you dispose of the thing.

Seriously, you have quite a setup. I use a propane stove for large smelting jobs so I don't know what the cost/hour of smelting works out to be. With electricity, you know what is the expected cost/hour, and will receive a bill that shows the increase in electrical use. Personally, I never had my bill dramatically rise due to casting, I think smelting and casting with electricity would be comparable. Good job!

[Slugster]

Very nice build! I use a propane "turkey fryer" burner for smelting my lead into various alloys and have a Lee "drippy richard" bottom pour pot for casting, and one of Lee's small pots for ladle casting bullets. I have found that I get more consistent bullets doing it that way.
The guys on this thread who say that dirty alloy will clog the bottom valve on your pot are not kidding, ask me how I know.

[onelight]

I like that it sets so compact and electric .
If I had one suggestion it would be to add at least one more bolt to each of the angle iron feet that support the burner and pot . The way you set it up the load is all compression as long as the pot is centered and that is good . But if one bolt gets loose or fails it could dump the pot while working it .

[Froogal]

An electric hotplate capable of melting down range scrap can be bought for about $20 to $25, ready to go right out of the box. Just plug it in, set an 8" cast iron skillet on top, and you're ready to go.

[gpidaho]

There's always a little pride involved when using tools you've put together yourself, even if there are cheaper-easier ways. Nice job " guy with boolits" Gp

[bangerjim]

Use bee's wax and NOT those horrible cheap tea candles......or any kind of petroleum-based paraffin wax formulation for that matter. They all stink, smoke and flame up horribly. Bee's wax has a much higher flash point and smells GREAT. Does not take much....a pea-sized piece or two will do the trick of reducing your "good stuff" back in. I rarely have any flame flash-back with bee's wax. If I do, I know my melt is waaaaaaaay too hot.

Have fun with your new toy.

banger

[guy_with_boolits]

Use bee's wax and NOT those horrible cheap tea candles......or any kind of petroleum-based paraffin wax formulation for that matter. They all stink, smoke and flame up horribly. Bee's wax has a much higher flash point and smells GREAT. Does not take much....a pea-sized piece or two will do the trick of reducing your "good stuff" back in. I rarely have any flame flash-back with bee's wax. If I do, I know my melt is waaaaaaaay too hot.

Have fun with your new toy.

banger

really a pea size for like 20lbs? because I just bought a stick of RCBS bullet lube. I also have some leather threading beeswax. Not very much but if I dont need very much then its a perfect supply

[guy_with_boolits]

An electric hotplate capable of melting down range scrap can be bought for about $20 to $25, ready to go right out of the box. Just plug it in, set an 8" cast iron skillet on top, and you're ready to go.

I started off thinking the PID would be important, but it turns out that really the temperature measurement is important, not so much computer control of the temperature. I was able to get things pretty steady just by setting it to 75% duty cycle...

Also I wanted something with a crapload of power so I would never have to deal with it again. 2600W can handle way more than what I've been melting, so if I get some fire brick, a reflector, and a huge pot, I can grow the system if need be

but otherwise yes, I think a store bought hot plate and a garage sale pot could do the job nicely

would still add an accurate thermocouple probe so you know whats what

[guy_with_boolits]

I like that it sets so compact and electric .
If I had one suggestion it would be to add at least one more bolt to each of the angle iron feet that support the burner and pot . The way you set it up the load is all compression as long as the pot is centered and that is good . But if one bolt gets loose or fails it could dump the pot while working it .

ya I think an extra support in the middle would be good too. also some walls around the pot so it cant move

[guy_with_boolits]

Dude, that thing is JUNK! Send it to me and I will help you dispose of the thing.

Seriously, you have quite a setup. I use a propane stove for large smelting jobs so I don't know what the cost/hour of smelting works out to be. With electricity, you know what is the expected cost/hour, and will receive a bill that shows the increase in electrical use. Personally, I never had my bill dramatically rise due to casting, I think smelting and casting with electricity would be comparable. Good job!

I like the electric aspect because adding an open flame to the mix makes things even more dangerous and likely to produce more chemical reactions....also more waste heat blasting you in the face...if I had a huge outdoor space it probably wouldnt matter but where I do it I want as little extra heat and chemicals being produced as possible

[guy_with_boolits]

If anyone wants to take the easy way out ...
Lee Magnum Melter (110 V.) $61.99 w/ free shipping ( check Amazon) .
True it doesn't have a PID but I find it's not really necessary .
Gary

ya I agree PID is not needed

that lee pot would probably be perfect. only advantage my setup has is that its got so much power that it could be upgraded to a much larger pot

[guy_with_boolits]

Nice job on your DIY smelting setup

Here are the tools I use for smelting, others have their own preferences
pine sawdust, wax, DIY dipper, skimmer, scraper, whisk for mixing flux in, BBQ spoon for string and skimming, small ladle, Stainless Steel Mesh Strainer for removing big pieces, channel lock pliers for moving molds and misc.

Most of these items were bought from thrift stores.

Using only well fluxed/clean alloy in your casting pot will help prevent the spout from plugging up and give you smoother boolits

[it would help if I posted the picture :killingpc]
https://i.imgur.com/DcWKybA.jpg

thanks so technical question!! could you describe in a little more detail why you have each of those tools? I am definitely adding the whisk. And I think I will need to add a deep ladle for pouring ingots. But it looks like you have multiples for each role

[guy_with_boolits]

What makes you think you created lead oxide?
It’s always been my understanding that substantially more heat than your 650 degrees would be required. Something like 800-900 degrees. Internet seems to substantiate. Yeah yeah, internet blah blah blah.
Range scrap contains anything and everything. I’d think it more likely to be oxidized tin or just antimony that didn’t want to mix in. Flux is your friend.

Great project! Who cares if buying a used range is easier? Looks to me like you have more fun creating than looking for easy anyway. Good stuff.

well when you drag the spoon across the lead, you get perfect mirror finish, which in a few seconds turns a sort of gray. No flux = lead oxidizing in the air.

[guy_with_boolits]

What makes you think you created lead oxide?
It’s always been my understanding that substantially more heat than your 650 degrees would be required. Something like 800-900 degrees. Internet seems to substantiate. Yeah yeah, internet blah blah blah.
Range scrap contains anything and everything. I’d think it more likely to be oxidized tin or just antimony that didn’t want to mix in. Flux is your friend.

Great project! Who cares if buying a used range is easier? Looks to me like you have more fun creating than looking for easy anyway. Good stuff.

I'm going to try and stay as low as possible because I've read some science that lead fumes arent really produced until the 800F range

https://diamondenv.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/lead-exposure-during-soldering/

[guy_with_boolits]

what I'm going to add next is some kind of fume hood..basically if I could find a range exhaust fan that has a duct, I'd be set. Then this whole electric setup would be 1) high power 2) flameless and 3) fume-less

[Hossfly]

Going electric is way cheaper than dealing with propane.