Beating a dead horse...25 ACP load data

[Rapidrob]

It seems that the lawyer-Loads have taken over this little cartridge due to the many "Saturday Night Specials" of poor quality having been brought into this country decades ago.
However S.A.M.I specifications show this little cartridge at only 18,000 PSI ( 25,000 copper crusher) but older loading's using powders no longer available,or never were in this country of 23-25,000 PSI for a 50 grain FMJ bullet.
Doing a search here as well as other sites that are free to the public for sharing info, I found that reaching 1,000 FPS with a 50 grain bullet is very doable using PB powder.
I guess my main question is "was the original Browning loading of the 6.35 ( .25 ACP cartridge) for the quality pistols of the turn of the last century a lot "hotter" than what we use today?

[megasupermagnum]

25 acp was always intended to be a 22 LR replacement, if that helps.

[Rapidrob]

I'm actually looking for load data from 90 years ago or earlier on the .25 ACP for a comparison to today's loading.
I know the history and the why's of the little cartridge but actual load data from the beginning is scarcer than hens teeth.

[3leggedturtle]

FWIW a 1961 Shooter's Bible shows the .25 auto ammo at 810fps with 50gr FMJ out of 2" barrel.

[elmacgyver0]

No replacing the .22lr.

[Rapidrob]

The late 40's and into the early 60's saw an influx of poorly made " Saturday Night Special" pistols that were made from zinc alloys and of very poor quality. Many cartridges for these pistols and many surplus military firearms from WWII were down loaded due to shooters irresponsibility or even myths about some firearms strengths.

[photomicftn]

I've never found loading data that old for this cartridge, and have looked, since I like the pistols.

For what it's worth, I've always found the European 6.35mm Browning to be loaded a little hotter than regular US factory .25 ACP (not the specialty stuff), but not nearly so much as 7.65 Browning/.32 ACP, probably because the former was loaded for tiny civilian only firearms, and the latter was a common military and police caliber. The 7.65 is loaded to much higher pressure in European loadings than in the US.

Relevant C.I.P. standards may be found here: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public?page=1&cartridge_type_id=4

[Rapidrob]

Thank you for the link.
I've been getting info from members over on International Ammunition Association on the 6.35 cartridge and the fact it was made for blow-back firearms which would limit the maximum chamber pressure and bullet weight.
Today's loads are in some loading's,100 FPS slower than originally designed but I stickily reload for all my calibers.
I have found loads here that wake up the little caliber to its full potential.

[KCSO]

I have loading manuals back to 1950 and they show the 25 acp to be 50 grain bullet to 800 to 850 when they show it at all. 1952 Olin handbook shows factory 25 at 50 and 820 fps.

[Rapidrob]

Thank you for the info.

[gwpercle]

I have found some loading data in the 7th Edition of Cartridges Of The World .
Somewhere I have an older edition but of course can't readily lay my hands on it .

It show: 50 gr. FMJ bullet (Hornady) - 1.2 grains Bullseye - @ 810 fps - 73 ME

Factory load #1 - Winchester - 50 gr. FMJ - @ 760 fps - 64 ME

Factory Load #2 - Winchester - 45 gr. JHP - @ 815 fps - 66 ME

If someone has an older edition maybe they could post the info and see if older ammo was loaded hotter .... the 7th Edition is dated 1993 ...not that very old , but I hope this helps.
Gary

[Slugster]

I have a copy of Cartridges of the World, 3rd edition, printed 1965. It shows 1.4 grs of Bullseye with 50 gr slug . Says "duplicate of factory Ball" at 810 FPS.