35 Whelen and cast boolits frustration

[Maineboy]

My 1 in 12" twist 35 Whelen shoots jacket bullets way better than it does cast boolits. While I can get "decent" groups with the 358009 and the RCBS 35 250 SP boolits at 1800 fps or so, they are not plinking loads. When I had this rifle built, I envisioned doing a lot of shooting with light loads consisting of 150-160 grain boolits and fast burning powders like Unique and 2400 at moderate velocities but that hasn't worked out. I would be happy with 4" groups at 100 yards but the best I've done is about 8" and most run a foot or better. Jacketed bullets at near maximum loads, will group around 2 inches and I suspect if I had mounted a scope more powerful than the 1-4X currently on it, the groups would be even tighter. Maybe a 1 in 14" or even 1 in 16" twist barrel would have been a better choice for boolits. In hopes that a longer boolit will work at low to moderate velocity, I bought the Lee 358 200 RF and plan on giving it a try but I'm not counting on it. I tried the longer RCBS boolit at 1200-1400fps and it didn't do all that great so expecting the Lee boolit to perform better is probably not realistic.

[Yooper003]

I have a CVA hunter in 35 whelen & it shoots the Lee 200 ,gaschecked & powdercoated great. I don’t know the twist. I tried some 300 gr. & they shot great also. 170 fair & 158 not very good. Only tried 2 5 shot groups with jacketed & they did not shoot any better than cast, so havn’t tried any more. Mostly shoot moderate loads with SW precision.

[Ford SD]

My 1 in 12" twist 35 Whelen shoots jacket bullets way better than it does cast boolits. While I can get "decent" groups with the 358009 and the RCBS 35 250 SP boolits at 1800 fps or so, they are not plinking loads. When I had this rifle built, I envisioned doing a lot of shooting with light loads consisting of 150-160 grain boolits and fast burning powders like Unique and 2400 at moderate velocities but that hasn't worked out. I would be happy with 4" groups at 100 yards but the best I've done is about 8" and most run a foot or better. Jacketed bullets at near maximum loads, will group around 2 inches and I suspect if I had mounted a scope more powerful than the 1-4X currently on it, the groups would be even tighter. Maybe a 1 in 14" or even 1 in 16" twist barrel would have been a better choice for boolits. In hopes that a longer boolit will work at low to moderate velocity, I bought the Lee 358 200 RF and plan on giving it a try but I'm not counting on it. I tried the longer RCBS boolit at 1200-1400fps and it didn't do all that great so expecting the Lee boolit to perform better is probably not realistic.

I am still working on my 35 Whelen /16 twist, have shot many 30 cal in cast in 308

Reading material
http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/articles-about-a-specific-bullet/243-358009

Questions

Are you using a gas check ?

Are you getting leading ?

What diameter are your Bullets ?....... I would think a larger by 0.0005 or 0.001 bullet would shrink your group size

are you weight / visual sorting your bullets ?

[GBertolet]

I have a 35 Whelen Imp, with a Douglass 1-12 twist barrel, built on a P17 Enfield. I didn't choose this twist, the gun builder did. I had the rifle built for a moose and caribou hunt, with intended use of 250 gr jacketed bullets. After the successfull hunting trip, I saw no further need for full power loadings, and switched to cast for range use. Mine shoots cast bullets great. Air cooled WW alloy, sized to .359 works just fine. I have two molds, a SAECO 245 gr, and a Lyman 208 gr. I think the Lyman bullet shoots a tad better in my rifle, than the SAECO. I use 4759 powder for both bullets. 1.5 to 2" groups @ 100 yards, are the norm. Velocities are in the 1600 fps range. A detachable muzzle brake come with the rifle. Worked great for J bullets. I took it off for cast use, as not needed.

[high standard 40]

What lighter bullets are you trying to use? Are you seating them to the crimp groove and are you crimping? I would suggest trying to seat the lighter bullets less deeply and forego crimping all together. I have had success seating bullets long. Your rifle may have a generous leade and may benefit by having the bullet start closer to the rifling.

[Maineboy]

I confess I posted this more as a rant than a request for help although I appreciate any suggestions. I've had this rifle for many years and it shoots heavy cast boolits acceptably and jacketed bullets superbly so I'm satisfied with it in that respect. As accurate as the rifle is with heavy loads I don't want to spend much time at the bench shooting them. They kick hard and are expensive as well so burning off 50 rounds in a shooting session is not enjoyable. What I want from this rifle is to shoot lighter boolits at moderate velocity cheaply. I want it to print tight groups, not patterns. My initial trials were with the Lee 358 166 SWC, a plain base boolit. Over the years, I loaded that with various fast burning powders but couldn't get good results so I went to the RCBS 150 SWC gas check boolit but couldn't do any better. I have not tried cranking up the velocity of these boolits to near 2000fps so that might be the next step. Yesterday I loaded up 50 of the Lee 200gr FN boolits, half with 12 grains of Unique, and half with 20 grains of 2400. If this boolit does better than the previous two, I'll work with it more. Other than checking the zero before hunting season, this gun doesn't get used much and I want to shoot it more. Every few years I'll work with it trying to get it to shoot then it sits in the safe until my next attempt. Last summer I fired about 200 rounds of various loads with poor results. Maybe this new boolit will work. Maybe I'm expecting too much but I won't stop trying. For those who have asked questions, if the boolit is a gas check design, I use a check. I don't crimp these light loads. I experiment with seating depths, I do not size plain base boolits and the checked designs are sized .359. I don't get any leading, even with the heavy RCBS 250 grain boolit and the 358009 at nearly 2000fps.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest a well cast 38 SPL 158 gr RN bullet cast of good alloy sized .359 and lubed with a good soft lube such as 2500+ or an NRA 50/50 lube. I also suggest using well fire formed cases that are NS'd and expanded with an M-die [so it also expands the inside of the entire neck not just flare the mouth] . Using cases that have the flash hole drilled out with a # 30 or #28 drill will also be best. Load over 5 gr of Bullseye and work up to a velocity at or under 1100 fps. You should find very good accuracy with a very pleasant load.

[Ford SD]

More reading material

35 Whelen at the bottom for 358627 ...215g cast

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLyman358627.htm#Loaddata

[farmbif]

about 20 years ago my pawn shop owner friend gave me one of the Remington 700 classics that he got in, was never shot, $400 I was on my way, loaded some 30-06 brass sized in a Whelen die with rcbs 35-200's , if memory serves well I think I loaded them with about 30 grains of 4198 equivalent Swiss precision powder and was hitting the target at 100 yard with the BDL open sights. a few weeks ago I came across a RCBS 35-250 I bought at a clearance sale and have yet to use, too heavy for the 35 rem but has renewed my interest with the Whelen now that I have some real 35 Whelen brass.

[Maineboy]

More reading material

35 Whelen at the bottom for 358627 ...215g cast

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLyman358627.htm#Loaddata

Thanks, Ford SD, I have that mold and actually did some work with it when I was developing my hunting load. I don't think I used it after my initial trial and as I recall, the loads were pretty good, but not as good as the 358009 loads. I'll cast a bunch up and try them at lower velocity.