45 Colt "Express"

[okietwolf]

I have a Virginian Dragoon in 45 Colt 7.5" barrel blued barrel and case hardened frame. I've had her for decades now, and have wanted to push it a bit. I have had it checked out and been told they were as strong or stronger than the same vintage Rugers. I do know it weighs more than a buddy of mines 44 Super Blackhawk by several ounces. I loaded up a few 300 gr XTPs with Lilgun, and handled them well. Now, it was five rounds and the start load was 18gr, I dropped to 16.2, for my start. They felt good, and burned very clean. I don't see myself going much if any beyond them. I am considering some light fast bullets, and have some Berry's 200 gr 452 flat noses. There are ZERO warm to hot light loads in 200. I was thinking about taking the Lilgun 225 data (Hornady FTX 26.5gr) and dropping to 20gr and loading a few. Your thoughts and advice? I am limited by two factors, Berry's plated bullets max velocities and my lack of a chronograph.

[smithnframe]

I've used 21 grains of 2400 and Elmer's bullet in my 70's vintage Blackhawk for decades.......very accurate!

[DougGuy]

LilGun when used in extreme loads burns VERY hot, if you haven't noticed how hot your cylinder gets and how quickly it heats. Freedom Arms does not recommend LilGun in 454 loads because of reported forcing cone erosion.

LilGun in the +P 45 Colt can be used in the 75% - 90% power band very effectively, as can 2400, this is an area not recommended for H110/W296 due to load densities falling below 78%

Years ago I used 2400 and AA#9 to load 200gr Speer "flying ashtrays" and fired them in a 94AE Trapper with 16" barrel, they were quite hot, kicked like a mule, but the trajectory at 200yds was that of a rainbow. I could think of nothing practical that a lightweight boolit in 45 caliber could do at those velocities except make the shooter say "Oh okay, that's what they do."

You are likely not to find data to support light boolits in that caliber at those pressures because it's either not safe, or not recommended. This is why there is not a preponderance of data.

As far as heavy boolits go, I would not recommend exceeding the 30.000psi pressure ceiling that the large Rugers and the big Dan Wessons, Contenders are all rated for.

If you need more than what the 45 Colt Ruger Only loads can do with 300gr boolits, you need to move up in caliber to the 454 Casull, 45 Win Mag, 480 Ruger, etc...

[okietwolf]

The thing is I got a "great deal" on 250 grain Berry's 452 flat nose plated bullets and when they landed here they were 200 grain. Which makes using them in the old Dragoon a limited item. With the deal, sending them back would be at a loss.... The wife sayeth "No 45 ACP at the moment".

[John in WYO]

Hi, Doug.
Re: Speer 200 grain .45 “Flying Ashtray“ in the .45 Colt, did you ever take any deer or other animal with it?
Wondering about terminal performance that you experienced...

[DougGuy]

Hi, Doug.
Re: Speer 200 grain .45 “Flying Ashtray“ in the .45 Colt, did you ever take any deer or other animal with it?
Wondering about terminal performance that you experienced...

I did not take game with that bullet. It is meant for defense against 2 legged creatures and does quite well at the intended purpose. I have since migrated to the 230gr Speer Gold Dot in the factory boxes for defense, which out of a 3.6" barrel shoves these 9" deep into North Carolina red clay and fully mushrooms them, you couldn't want for better performance for a defensive round.

I am not a fan of taking game with light hollowpoints, I favor a solid wide flat nose in soft alloy for thin skinned game, a little harder alloy for pigs.

Pre cancer loads were the Lee C430-310-RF in 44 magnum, and the Lee C452-300-RF in 45 Colt, both loaded to the hilt over 2400 or H110 respectively, but the evil C has kept me out of the woods a couple of seasons and in the interim I have done more development and settled on a LBT 250gr WFN or OWC over H110 in 45 Schofield brass, the medium frame Vaquero launches these at 1200fps and does so just under the 23,000psi pressure ceiling for these guns. It is much more pleasant to shoot than either of the loads listed at the beginning of this paragraph, the gun is lighter and easier to pack in the woods, and at the fairly close distances I like to hunt in thick woods and brush, I am confident it will be a load tailored very nicely to eastern US whitetails. I don't anticipate losing any deer or recovering any boolits either for that matter.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Interesting, Doug. I thought the world of the flying ashtrays back in the 70s, probably still have some loaded and some bullets, but I also went to the Gold Dot 230 gr. -- both in 1911s. I also use the Rem. Golden Saber load. Never used either in a rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

Hi, Doug.
Re: Speer 200 grain .45 “Flying Ashtray“ in the .45 Colt, did you ever take any deer or other animal with it?
Wondering about terminal performance that you experienced...

I put down several deer, domestic livestock and a couple dogs with the Speer "Lawman" 45 ACPs loaded with the 200 gr HP Flying Ashtrays. Velocity out of my Colt M1911 Series 70 was 950 fps +/-. A couple of the deer (mule deer) and domestic animals (sheep and bovines) were salvaged so I was aware of the terminal ballistics. With shots in the heart lung area penetration was excellent with some shots that were "behind the shoulder" being through and through. The recovered bullets were always on the off side and showed excellent expansion. I lament the passing of that bullet but, as Doug mentions, the Gold Dots as as good....perhaps better especially if two legged predators are on the menu......

[LUBEDUDE]

I've used 21 grains of 2400 and Elmer's bullet in my 70's vintage Blackhawk for decades.......very accurate!

That was the one and only load I used my 1973 New Model SBH when I was young and dumb. It was my first centerfire and I thought max loads were a must for the many thousands of rounds I ran through it.

I paid the price though. I have bilateral nerve damage in my hands and arms. No more 44 mag rounds for me. 38’s are my friends now with some occasional light big bore loads.

[smithnframe]

That was the one and only load I used my 1973 New Model SBH when I was young and dumb. It was my first centerfire and I thought max loads were a must for the many thousands of rounds I ran through it.

I paid the price though. I have bilateral nerve damage in my hands and arms. No more 44 mag rounds for me. 38’s are my friends now with some occasional light big bore loads.
I shoot the load from a Blackhawk 45 Colt.

[Drm50]

I got a SBH in 1964. I had been shooting 21.0gr of 2400 / 240gr Kieth HP with Gas Check for years. Now 22.5g of 2400/ 240g XTP. I have killed several deer with both. With 45 Colt in S&W m25-5s I have only killed deer with cast, one with 242gr WC at 750fps.

[smithnframe]

I got a SBH in 1964. I had been shooting 21.0gr of 2400 / 240gr Kieth HP with Gas Check for years. Now 22.5g of 2400/ 240g XTP. I have killed several deer with both. With 45 Colt in S&W m25-5s I have only killed deer with cast, one with 242gr WC at 750fps.
Elmer Keith didn't design a bullet with a gas check!