1889 Marlin

[sharps4590]

I have a question I think I know the answer to but, as this is my first ever Marlin I'd like opinions/experience of those vastly more familiar with this rifle than me. As the title says it's an 1889 Marlin in 32-20 that I have on the way. I've been shooting 32-20's for....well, I think since 1985. Anyway, One of my favorite loads was 10 grs. of 2400 over a 98 gr. RCBS, KTSWC. I have one box of 50 left and am wondering if the old Marlin is safe with those loads. I can pull the bullets but it's so much more fun to shoot them. The OLD Lyman cast bullet books give 11.8 grs. of 2400 as max...and I get that the powders have changed and lawyers have changed data. So, my thought is the rifle is ok with those 50 rounds. Would you shoot them in that rifle or pull the bullets and start over?

Oh, according to the serial # the rifle was supposedly made in 1893.

[farmbif]

that's what the gun was made for if its in good shape theres no reason why it should not work, but it seems every gun is different as to what bullet and load will work well in it. work up a load as you normally would and see how it does.

[Battis]

I have the same rifle, also made in 1893. I was using 12 grs Reloader 7 and a 115 gr bullet. It worked fine, but for some reason, after a few shots, the rounds had trouble loading. I switched to black powder and everything is great. Your bullets are lighter, so I'd try a few rounds.

[sharps4590]

Ok!! Thanks! I don't know if this is "the load", I just wanted to shoot them rather than pull the bullets. I didn't want to stress the old rifle. Its condition sounds good in the ad but I expect we all know how that is. I'll know when it gets here, probably next week.

That is odd that it would stop feeding, Battis. Ever figure out why BP made a difference?

Thanks again.

[Battis]

I can't remember the exact problem - something to do with the lever jamming - but I think the lower pressure of the BP helped. Maybe I should have tried another powder, or different load, but it works fine with BP.
I examined the rifle before I bought it, and it seemed fine, but when I got it home and took it apart, I found that it had a broken firing pin. It was broken just about in half (it still worked in two pieces). I found a replacement online and the store covered the cost.

Now that I think about it, I replaced the ejector also.
http://www.wisnersinc.com/model/center-fire-lever-1881/

Here's a link to the forum posts I made when I bought the rifle:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?362358-1889-Marlin-32-20-parts-question

[sharps4590]

Hmm..so I may be in for some gunsmithing. Thanks for the info.

[missionary5155]

Greetings 45-90
I like our 45-90 !! Anyway I have a basic idea about pre-98 firearms and smokeless. If you feel it needs used I would not use any load that exceeded the old BP load. Personally I use 3F in our rifles I want to pass on. Even 3F Goex will burn clean and expands cases so there is no blowback in our rifles.
From 32-20 up to 45 Colt we are very happy 3F shooters.

[sharps4590]

Thanks missionary!! I am not a stranger to BP. Until I stopped shooting competitively I bought it by the case. If it's a keeper I will be using the '89 Marlin and a BP load is on the list. I recently worked up two excellent BP loads, one for my Jeffrey Rook rifle in 25-20 and another for my Uberti '73 Winchester clone in 44-40. I guess once a fella gets a good whiff of BP smoke you can never get it out of your system. I was infected in 1975.

[fordwannabe]

If this is your first 89 firing pins are a pretty commonly broken part on these guns. If you keep it get a spare.

[carolina sorillo]

Most data you find for the .32-20 is for modern guns like the Marlin 1894CB or CL. Those max loads are well over what a 130yo rifle should be subjected to. If it was mine I'd pull those and either use BP or a pistol powder ei. Unique, Titegroup, Trail Boss...

CS

[sharps4590]

ford, it is, I will.

10 grs. of 2400 isn't a max load. If memory serves me, max. is 11.8 grs. however, this old rifle will see lighter loads.

Rifle is supposed to be here today then we'll see if it's a keeper.

[sharps4590]

Battis, ford, any of you other guys, do you know of a set of tear down instructions? I can't find any on line and my NRA book doesn't list the 1889. The only ones in the book are the 39 and 336. Are they much different? I'm no stranger to pulling rifles down but I'd like to have a reference. 'Preciate the help.

Oh, the rifle isn't bad. Actually it's pretty good except for the broken ejector and I don't know about the firing pin. It's been apart a few time evidently, judging from the screw heads. It fires but I understand they will anyway. My only....concern, is the bore. For its age it really it's really pretty good but I'd like it to have been better. Jacketed bullets would be fine I believe but I'm a pretty hard core cast shooter. Jury is still out as to whether I'll keep it. Just gathering info at the moment.

[Battis]

I'm trying to remember what I used for take-down instructions - it'll come to me. It's pretty basic to disassemble and assemble.
Ejection is very weak - the fired case basically drops out. Mine is a good shooter with black powder. It kicks like a .22.
Maybe jacketed bullets will clean up the bore.
From what I was told (on this forum, I think) the 1889 Marlin in 32-20 is pretty rare.

I think I got some good info from this video:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marlin+1889+disassembly&&view=detail&mid=B4C5C13940AC5D25CD66B4C5C13940AC5D25CD66&&FORM=VRDGAR

[sharps4590]

If I remember correctly the seller had looked up how many were made in 32-20 and I want to remember he said something like 15,000.

I had the same thought about jacketed bullets. Oh, and thanks for the link!!

[Battis]

I bought an Argentine Mauser at a good price because the bore was frosted. I shot jacketed bullets through it and now it's nice and shiny. If you need help putting it back together, let me know.

[Battis]

I had mentioned that my Marlin jammed when using smokeless powder, but not with black powder. Then I was watching the video that I posted above and the kid in the video mentioned the "Marlin Jam". I googled Marlin Jam and found some interesting stuff. I gotta check it out further.
https://www.ktgunsmith.com/marlinjam.htm

[sharps4590]

Boy, that rifle is a lot like the '94 and, I was wrong. The ejector is not broken and you guys were right, the ejection is not very robust!! Rolls out is a good description. The firing pin is fine as well. I only had 8 jacketed bullets and they cut out some of the gunk. Valve lapping compound got quite a bit more but the bore is never going to be nice.. I ordered a box of 100 bullets but they won't be here for 8-10 days so unless I can find some locally I'm at a standstill.

I looked briefly at the "Marlin jam" link but I'm not far enough along to worry about that, yet.

Thank you so much for everyone's help.

[Battis]

I checked out my rifle and the Marlin Jam doesn't seem to be an issue with it.

[carolina sorillo]

I don't think the "Marlin Jam" was even an issue until SASS came about. It is caused by the carrier repeatedly dropping down on the pointed part of the lever. An average gun never sees near the amount of use that a competition gun sees. That 1889 may have been used in SASS but I doubt it. I had an 1888 in .44-40 that I shot in a couple matches but parts for them are almost non-existent so I didn't do that anymore. Your '89 is the great-great grandfather to todays '94 it should takedown very similar.

CS

[Battis]

I don't think the "Marlin Jam" was even an issue until SASS came about.

Good point. My 1889 jams occasionally so I thought it might be a Marlin Jam issue, but I don't see any sign of it.

[sharps4590]

I don't believe this particular rifle has been used for anything in several decades. You know how, after setting in a closet, under a bed, in the rafters or wherever, the grooves become filled with dust, it mixes with whatever oil or moisture might be in the bore and after decades, it petrifies....or nearly so. That's what the gunk in this bore appears to be and what the resultant pits are from...with the always probability of mercuric priming.. Even with the bore, it's growing on me but, I have an ineradicable fondness for old rifles, foreign and domestic.

Still...I find the ejection....amusing if nothing else.

[Battis]

Once you get used to the ejecting, it's nice. When I shoot my Winchester Self Loaders, I'm more interested in where the brass lands than how the bullets group on the target. Those suckers toss the brass. But the Marlin drops them at my feet in nice little groups.
Have you tried hot water down the bore, in case BP was used and not cleaned properly?

[sharps4590]

Which would be the biggest reason I am not much of an auto loader shooter. I hate chasing and losing brass. My 92's fling brass pretty good as well but at least it's straight up. My '86 does the same thing just not as high.

No Battis, I haven't tried hot water. Sounds like a project for tomorrow. Thanks for the tip...never occurred to me.

[carolina sorillo]

HA, the only self loading rifle I own is a Marlin Model 60! I don't mind losing .22 brass. :grin:

When I was shooting BP in SASS my BP "solvent" was hot tap water. I rinsed with hot water ran a dry paper towel down the bore followed by a Ballistol patch. Sounds like yours may need a brush between hot water baths. But it does clean BP fouling well and the hot water will evaporate pretty quick, instead of sitting in/on the gun to cause rust.

CS

[sharps4590]

I have an M-1 carbine and an SKS but they haven't been fired in....25 years? I have three 22 semi-auto's but they rarely see use. I inherited all three of them.

Yes sir, I've been using boiling water to clean my muzzleloaders and percussion revolvers since about '75 or '76. Haven't found anything better. I was just recently turned on to Ballistol. That's pretty good stuff!!

[sharps4590]

I have an M-1 carbine and an SKS but they haven't been fired in....25 years? I have three 22 semi-auto's but they rarely see use. I inherited all three of them.

Yes sir, I've been using boiling water to clean my muzzleloaders and percussion revolvers since about '75 or '76. Haven't found anything better. I was just recently turned on to Ballistol. That's pretty good stuff!!

[sharps4590]

Welp, I believe I have the bore as clean as it's going to get. It's pitted, surprise, surprise. Shot about 75 jacketed bullets through it, cleaned it as best I could then lead lapped it and cleaned it again. It shot the jacketed bullets fairly well....at 25 yards. Of 5 fired it always seemed to throw at least one, usually two with the other 3 cutting a nice little cloverleaf. The two outliers could be me, I haven't broke out the rests yet. Perhaps today. Haven't tried cast yet, maybe this week.

[Battis]

Glad it works well. And you gotta admit, it's a fun, easy caliber to shoot. I had a "modern" 1894 Winchester 30-30 that I gave to my son. I don't hunt, and it wasn't a target rifle.
I've read that the .32 WSL is the most useless cartridge ever developed - too small for big game, too big for small game. I also read that same cliched description about the 32-20. But, like I said, I don't hunt, and they're great plinkers.

[sharps4590]

I've been shooting a 32-20 since the mid-80's and it's been one of my favorite cartridges, revolver and rifle, ever since. On the farm I carried an old Colt Army Special in 32-20 for....15 years(?). It killed a lot of stuff in that time. I had a '92 that I had re-lined and it was a shooter. My oldest son took it and left me withou a rifle in that cartridge...soooo...I waited and finally found this Marlin I was willing to pay for.

I did put the rifle on bags and with jacketed bullets at 25 yards it was one, elongated hole at 25 yards and sub 2 inch at 50 for 6 rounds. First three were under an inch. Tried cast and the first shot at 50 wasn't even on an approximately 12 X 12 inch target. Moved the target to 25 and it shot a 4+ inch group. So much for a cast bullet shooter.

I don't have any way to post pictures on this board but could e-mail them if there's any interest and someone wanted to post them.

[Battis]

Here's a few pics from Sharps4590 of his 1889 Marlin .32. Lookin' good...

[prs]

I expected it to look rougher than that. Nice! If the bore is rough, you could powder coat your cast lead bullets before sizing them. That would prevent leading.

I put a dose of Ballistol right into my pot of scalding water for BP firearms cleaning. Flash dries, but does not flash rust.

prs

[sharps4590]

Thank you prs. I wasn't displeased with the outside appearance at all. The rifle is 127 years old and came out of Montana so I expect it saw plenty use in its day. I really can't complain about the bore much, given its age and the use of mercuric priming and more than likely BP. I've decided to just stick with jacketed bullets. They shoot fine and I don't powder coat and I'm not interested in adding another step to my handloading at my age. I do swage jacketed bullets and along with casting that's enough.

[Don McDowell]

I have an 89 in 38-40, the bore looked horrible, but after a lot of cleaning with Montana Extreme Cowboy blend it lost a lot of what looked like pitting, but was actually lead and fouling hunks. Interesting enough it shoots some commercially cast coated bullets well and those seem to have helped remove a lot of the tarnish in the bore.
I also find it interesting that when shooting bullets cast from an original Ideal loading tool it will give you problems with the Marlin jam occasionally, but using bullets cast from the rcbs 180 gr mould it doesn't, and it doesn't happen shooting the coated bullets either. I think it has a lot to do with the nose shape.

[sharps4590]

Don, do you think the Montana Extreme got out...leading, that over 100 rounds of jacketed bullets and lead lapping didn't? That's not a smart aleck question, I'm game to try anything to improve the bore...almost.

[Don McDowell]

That Cowboy blend stuff works really good. The only thing better is pure gum spirits of turpentine. imho
Friend of mine has a 93 takedown in 38-55 bore has looked like 37 miles of bad road since he got it several years ago, he's done the lapping, the JB paste etc.. After a match last month we were sitting at camp, and he was crabbing about it fouling out again. I asked him if I could try cleaning it, went to work on it with the Cowboy blend , and their Accuracy oil, after about a dozen patches I handed it back to him, he exclaimed that's the best that barrel has ever looked. I have to wonder what it might of looked like if we would of had a jag that fit the bore instead of a 32 caliber...