Shortage of Caps/Primers

[Theditchman]

Has anyone else noticed a shortage of primers/Caps lately ??.....I still have my Tap-a-Cap thank goodness..I managed to get 2000 Remington #11 from Powder Valley but all my regular sources have seemed to have dried up

[kenblacksmith]

Rem. 7.5 shortage for sure, keep stock if you shoot LR, HP, Palma.

[Edward]

Has anyone else noticed a shortage of primers/Caps lately ??.....I still have my Tap-a-Cap thank goodness..I managed to get 2000 Remington #11 from Powder Valley but all my regular sources have seemed to have dried up

Another reason for Magspark conversion

[RoyEllis]

Another reason for Magspark conversion

No bueno for cap & ball revolver.....

[rancher1913]

everything is flying off the shelf's. when somebody posts about ammo or anything gun related in stock somewhere you better be quick or its gone. glad I panicked early and often.

[rking22]

Had wondered if I would get my 1k CCI #11s I ordered on the gun club book. Just got a call said the order was in and all I did not get was the pound of power pistol I was going to try in 44special. I should be good on caps for a goodly while, I been shooting flint for the last 15 years so much I didn’t pay attention to my cap stash. All this talk about out of stock reminded me to check, thanks to the forum I panicked soon enough :drinks:

[bedbugbilly]

"Old Mother Hubbard, went to her cupboard . . . . "

Everything is getting short from what I see . . . .

A number of weeks ago, I decided I had better order primers, caps & powder . . .

I looked on-line on a Sunday night at Graf's at powder I normally use . . . by the next morning when I went to place my order, it was amazing at what had sold out overnight. I wasn't trying to "hoard" - just get some !# containers of Red Dot, H335, etc. I ws able to get a couple of pounds of RD - ended up having to take a 8# jug of both Bulls Eye and H335. It's O.K. as I'll use it up eventually. I was able to get some Large Rifle Primers - 5K - some Small Rifle Primers - no Small Pistol Primers in stock anywhere I have looked and I also bought 1K of 209 primers to convert to them from percussion caps if necessary on one of my rifles. I have looked at a number of the on-line suppliers - same everywhere.

All I see on percussion caps is "out of stock". I finally located some CCI #10 and #11 and ordered them but by now, I'm sure the supplier is out of stock.

I did order BP from Graf's - Graf's BP - in 2F and 3F. I have shot either DuPont or Goes for over 55 years but decided to go with the Graf's as the price was a bit cheaper and it is made by Goex.

Like everyone else - you hate to see prices go up but it's a case of supply and demand as well. Even with the hazmat shipping, the price of the powder and primers - because of the quantity I was able to get - came out better than what I could buy it off the shelf at the majority of dealers.

You limp, it's funny . . . after shooting percussion guns for so long, you expect prices to go up like anything else but for the most part . . . you kind of fool yourself that there will always be a "supply" of them. I just bought a new rifle to set up for target and some play with different projectiles - I debated some over getting a percussion or a flintlock. Things change fast . . and just look at how fast things have changed in the past few weeks. Now I'm seriously thinking about getting a flintlock rifle to have should the shortage of caps and primers continue to be an issue.

[PbHurler]

recobstargetshop.com has CCI caps in stock.....

Hazmat's a killer

[oldsalt444]

Roll your own using soda cans:

https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.myshopify.com/products/11-percussion-cap-maker

[rking22]

That’s the nice thing about gun clubs that place a club order, quantity is large enough that they deliver! Just have to plan ahead and accept it could be next month if you missed the deadline for this month. Cost savings, both hazmat and on lead shot makes it worth it and we get a volume discount as well. I know a few clubs do it, just gotta have a point man that’s willing.

[TNsailorman]

I had to search hard for the "musket caps", 4 winged style and finally found some at Midsouth. Ordered a 1K package. Never will need that many but couldn't see ordering less with the HazMat charge being what it is. I may try to sell about half around here somewhere. james

[brewer12345]

I was down to a single brick of a thousand #11 caps. I tried three different places to buy some caps and every time the order was cancelled due to lack of stock. I bought the cap maker currently be sold so I would have a means of resupply, but I then found 11 tins lose in a drawer. Guess I am supplied.

[MrWolf]

Was reading this thread and started looking myself. Yup nothing. Went to local LGS today and he had one #11 100 tin. I grabbed it.

[dtknowles]

I don't shoot the cap and ball revolvers or cap lock rifles much anymore since caps and powder cost more than loaded ammo.

The only front stuffer I shoot much is my Savage 10ML

Tim

[Tasbay]

With home made powder I use the plastic red cap gun caps and they work fine. For hunting I still use #11 CCI but for plinking or small game shooting just the toy caps will do.

[Yellowhouse]

Them new fangled cap guns never will ketch on! Rocklocks win!

[dtknowles]

With home made powder I use the plastic red cap gun caps and they work fine. For hunting I still use #11 CCI but for plinking or small game shooting just the toy caps will do.

I have some of those plastic Red Caps. I know they will light smokeless powder as I put the charge from a few in reformed primers as I prepper kind of exercise. I guess they would light black too.

Tim

[Theditchman]

I will have to get some just to try them out ...they are cheap enough on Evil bay

[mooman76]

I didn't actually try some with a load but did try some out of curiosity. It seems to me they didn't fit that well but were doable. Seemed a little small. I'll take a look again.

[LAGS]

Since there seems to be another Cap shortage again, I think I will start playing with making my own Caps again.
I used the H-48 mix before and it worked Ok for the most part.
But I am going to play with the FH42 priming mix and see if it does any better.

[arcticap]

The toy plastic ring caps are more sensitive to going off during capping so be sure to use a push stick.
One fellow on Cascity was seriously injured due to accidental ignition during capping.
See the photo in post #3 [click to enlarge it] and his warning statement in post #4. --->>> https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,1620.0.html

And skinny 1950 posted on thehighroad that it also happened to him using the toy caps.

"I was using toy caps for quite a while with my Uberti 1851 Navy until a cap went off as I was putting it on the nipple,the ball shot out the side of the gun hit the frame and shaved a slab off. I don't know where the ball went but I sustained a minor injury to my thumb. Good thing it was pointed downrange or someone could have been hurt. Up to that point the toy caps were working great as they don't jam up the gun like the CCI #11's. Anyway the toy caps go off a lot easier that metal ones and could lead to injury." [Post #41] --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/tap-o-cap-percussion-cap-maker.351665/page-2#post-7036183

Also, the plastic ring caps may also be more susceptible to creating a chain fire.

[rking22]

May sound like a stupid question, but I am confused. I have had a tap o cap for a long time and used it with beer can material and paper roll caps. Question is, are the plastic ring caps being used directly on the nipple or disassembled and used with tap o cap made caps???

[mooman76]

Directly on I believe.

[arcticap]

May sound like a stupid question, but I am confused. I have had a tap o cap for a long time and used it with beer can material and paper roll caps. Question is, are the plastic ring caps being used directly on the nipple or disassembled and used with tap o cap made caps???

I'm referring to them being used as direct replacements for percussion caps.
However the ring caps can also be disassembled for use as a source of primer material for homemade caps, to augment the paper roll caps used in them.
Some folks also use a black powder nipple charger to prime their nipples with 4F powder for use with homemade caps.

[Wisest.fool]

Got luck and found a store getting out of reloading. Everything half off. Got 30lb powder and 30k primers for 700$ im set for the apocalypse or the next few years.

[Tasbay]

May sound like a stupid question, but I am confused. I have had a tap o cap for a long time and used it with beer can material and paper roll caps. Question is, are the plastic ring caps being used directly on the nipple or disassembled and used with tap o cap made caps???

I use them as a straight instead of: They will fit the #11 with a bit of a squeeze . I sort of roll them on from one side and once on they are a tight fit. As mentioned above be careful pushing them on. I have had one discharge while loading the 58cal with 120 grains of powder... Got a bit of a fright and singed the thumb, defiantly enough to learn a lesson. That said I have shot thousands of rounds fired by toy caps. Just don`t push them down hard. I also carry a pin on me to pick out any plastic that gets pushed into the nipple hole. Currently I use them on my 58 CVA Mountain Rifle, Pedersoli Hawken, Zoil Zauave.

[rking22]

Thanks for clarification, sounds like they might be just the thing for hunting in the rain, tight seal. The 1000 I pick up in the morning will probably last me out. I still use rocks more, but have a new underhammer I am looking forward to playing with. Wife calls it my toy gun, haven’t figured out why ???

[Golfswithwolves]

Them new fangled cap guns never will ketch on! Rocklocks win!

This is a very wise observation. You can shoot a flintlock for as long as the earth is still made of rocks.

[Castaway]

Just pulled out my die for making caps this evening and did a soda cans worth. Tomorrow I’ll do another can or two. Once upon a time I used red roll caps but now use the compound used in a 22 rim fire reloading kit.

[tankgunner59]

I went looking for some SRP's the other day and our LGS confirmed the makers are selling all they make to the ammo manufacturers for the foreseeable future to replenish ammo shelves. I live just 90 miles from Graf and Sons and after contacting them I got the same story. Looked online and out of all of them I could only find LRP's and LPP's.

[Theditchman]

I have a prime all tool but I have never used it...does it make them for a #11 nipple? or would a musket nipple be better?

[LAGS]

The tool makes #11 caps that work well.
So far in my testing, I am getting good results with several types of Priming Compounds.
Toy Roll Caps work , as well as the powder out of the Plastic Toy Caps.
But it is a lot of extra time to recover the amount of powder needed for a single cap.
I am using the Prime All compound that you can buy.
It works Ok when mixed per the instructions it comes with.
It is a version of the old H48 mix used in the 30- 40 ammo.
But the chemicals are more reliable when mixed by Weight to an Accurate H48 ratio.
I also mix up the FH42 primer mix used in WW1.
It uses the same chemicals as the H48 , just a different Ratio.
It ignites better , and burns a little Hotter.
It also uses less powder in the cap..
I am hoping to write a thread on Making your own Caps in a week or so , and share some Tips I found or things I do to make things better or easier than just doing the basics.

[fiberoptik]

I’m interested. Need more info. I tried my Tap-O-Cap with the red paper caps & it never set off the rifle. Started taking them apart to add a pinch of bp under them.
Need to find a cheap Reliable way to go boom [emoji95]!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arcticap]

This video shows how small pistol primers can be adapted to be used in place of percussion caps with some guns.
Small rifle primers have the same diameter as the small pistol primers.


https://youtu.be/TUfHjX6gAQA

[LAGS]

The Old Roll Caps or when they had Green Sticky Caps would set off a rifle no problem.
But the newer caps today just don't have the power.
That is why I switched to the Prime All or other mixed primer compounds.
I started playing with different priming compounds again when I started Reloading 22 LR ammo.
One tip.
When you put the Primer compound in the cap or 22 shell casing.
Put 2 drops of Acetone that has a couple of drops of nail polish mixed in to make a better Binder.
I found that 10 drops of Nail Polish to a ounce of Acetone works well.
It keeps the priming compound in place and keeps it from turning back to powder and falling out.
I did try putting BP in the caps to assist in getting the toy caps to fire better.
The only draw back is , the cap is then so Full , it is hard to get it to stay on the nipple

[mooman76]

I bought one many years ago, like 30-35 years. It seems to me even then it stated would not work reliably with BP substitutes.

[n.h.schmidt]

I mostly us the FA42 formula. Works real well and with pyrodex too. There is a way to use the role caps you can still get. Take a strip and soak it in water for about one min. Take it out and rub to top paper to break it loose. You can then peel the top layer completely off. You can then harvest the dots right off the bottom with a sharp knife. Get the angle right and you can zip right down strip. For me when I had ten or more on the knife blade,I scraped them off into the percussion cap cup. Press down later but while they are still wet. You will need to bind them in the cup. This way You can make them as powerful as you want with NO paper. I have used as many as 20 in a cup and didn't half fill it. For the revolvers six dots will do.
n.h.schmidt

[RoyEllis]

LAGS have you tried clear lacquer thinned with fast dry lacquer thinner? If I'm not mistaken, the 1800's caps were "waterproofed" with clear lacquer but that was stopped in the early 1900's.

[LAGS]

Clear Lacquer , thinned down with lacquer Thinner is a good option.
Finger Nail Polish is very similar and can be thinned with Lacquer thinner too.
But Acetone seems to dry faster.
You can also just use Nail Polish Remover as a thinner / wetting agent with the nail polish.
For the most part , I am trying to work with simple materials that everyone has access to , that are very inexpensive.
My wife gave me a bottle of nail polish that she had , but didn't like the color.
But it is also very cheap at the dollar stores and can be found in every drug or grocery store.
Another binding agent I am going to try is Shellac thinned with Alcohol

[n.h.schmidt]

Shellac thinned with denatured alcohol. Works very well as a binder. I use shellac flakes to do this. The flakes last forever until you want to use them.Many places online sell it.I you buy the shellac that's in a can to use like varnish.It will work once thinned out but most will go to waste. Duco cement thinned with acetone works like the nail polish.
n.h.schmidt

[Road_Clam]

Primer shortage ? Not down in my reloading cave. Have not visited a gun store in over a year. Ive been buying up small quantities over the past 6 years . Gun panic shortages are now beconing more common. And its threads like this that just add more panic buying .

https://i.ibb.co/Tm7pxLr/DSCF1138-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/D5vsHpL)

[mooman76]

Yes, thankyou!

[Theditchman]

I take it you don't think that huge stash you have has added to the shortage in any way..????

[Woodnbow]

Not if he’s been buying in smaller amount over many years. The problem children are the ones who run out and buy that many whenever there’s a ripple on the water...

[Hellgate]

With a stash like that you need to make provisions for their dispersal if you drop dead or your wife will have a garage sale at $1 a sleeve just to get rid of them.

[OverMax]

2008 deja' vu

[Road_Clam]

I take it you don't think that huge stash you have has added to the shortage in any way..????

Read the comment in bold again from my post #41

"Primer shortage ? Not down in my reloading cave. Have not visited a gun store in over a year. Ive been buying up small quantities over the past 6 years . Gun panic shortages are now becoming more common. And its threads like this that just add more panic buying .

As is also the case with my projectile and powder inventory which has been acquired from bi-weekly purchases as funds allow. It's not rocket science, it's just small, consistent disciplined bi-weekly prepping purchases for when the day comes and the reloading shelves are stripped bare. I try to be most aggressive with my purchases when the political gun climate is "calm" (as been the case for about the past 2-1/2 years prior to the recent Covid 19 panic). Sorry for seeming like i'm gloating but many of you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for just sitting back and not buying ammo and/or reloading components during the calm gun buyers climates. Just takes a jerk like me to get people to think about what bad will be inevitably be coming...

https://i.ibb.co/2qNzJJd/IMG-20200316-183343186-TOP.jpg (https://ibb.co/qB5H66p)

https://i.ibb.co/vDkN3v0/DSCF1139-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/DLQB9g0)

https://i.ibb.co/mq8PSgq/DSCF1141-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/fpvTQLp)

https://i.ibb.co/cgd9BRh/DSCF1140-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/kHFT7z2)

[Woodnbow]

Read the comment in bold again from my post #41

"Primer shortage ? Not down in my reloading cave. Have not visited a gun store in over a year. Ive been buying up small quantities over the past 6 years . Gun panic shortages are now becoming more common. And its threads like this that just add more panic buying .

As is also the case with my projectile and powder inventory which has been acquired from bi-weekly purchases as funds allow. It's not rocket science, it's just small, consistent disciplined bi-weekly prepping purchases for when the day comes and the reloading shelves are stripped bare. I try to be most aggressive with my purchases when the political gun climate is "calm" (as been the case for about the past 2-1/2 years prior to the recent Covid 19 panic). Sorry for seeming like i'm gloating but many of you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for just sitting back and not buying ammo and/or reloading components during the calm gun buyers climates. Just takes a jerk like me to get people to think about what bad will be inevitably be coming...

https://i.ibb.co/2qNzJJd/IMG-20200316-183343186-TOP.jpg (https://ibb.co/qB5H66p)

https://i.ibb.co/vDkN3v0/DSCF1139-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/DLQB9g0)

https://i.ibb.co/mq8PSgq/DSCF1141-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/fpvTQLp)

https://i.ibb.co/cgd9BRh/DSCF1140-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/kHFT7z2)

The forum needs a “like” button...

[Geezer in NH]

Caps in stock at Midway as of 1700 hrs today 8/14

[Hellgate]

Thanks, that means other suppliers may start getting them in too.

[arcticap]

They're RWS 1075 #11's. --->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=Percussion+caps&userItemsPerPage=24

They also have CCI #10's.

[brewer12345]

I made 9 caps with the #11 cap maker and priming compound that is currently being sold and tried them out today. They were at least as hot as the Remington #11s and worked great. It is a little fiddly to make them, but this is a reasonable option for target shooting.

[joatmon]

Anyone know of plans/drawing for making a cap maker on the web? I'd love to have one but funds require the cheap route.
Thanks Aaron

[LAGS]

I started making my own Caps back in the late 70's.
I just drilled a hole in a piece of 1/2" steel about the size of the OD of the primer cap.
I made a punch out of a piece of 1/4" steel rod turned down to the Diameter of the nipple, using a drill motor and a file.
Poor man's Lathe.
( About .160" )
I then cut discs out of soda cans about 5/8" diameter.
You place the disc over the hole in the steel and pound the punch down into the hole in the steel to form the cup.
You have to play with punch sizes and tip shapes a little bit to get it to Form the disc rather than just punching a hole thru it.
I use to use TOY Caps for the priming compound.
Now I mix up priming compound to match either the H-48 or FH-42 mix using chemicals from Prime All compound that you can order on line.
It will take you a few trys to perfect your process in making the Cups.
But you can't do it much cheaper than that.
I now use a Primer maker I bought on line , but improved the shape of the primer cup even more by using the methods from my original experiments back in the 70's

[LAGS]

Now , Don't take me wrong.
The Primer Cap makers that are out on the market right now are good , and produce fine Workable Caps.
I just use my home made punch and die to Refine than a little for my own satisfaction.
I can also remember making my Cap Making plate out of a piece of wood with a hole drilled all the way thru it.
It is just that the wood sometimes wore out a bit after doing several hundred caps.
So I switched to a metal die.
I am having problems with my computer posting pictures , or I would show you what my simple system looks like.

[ofitg]

Anyone know of plans/drawing for making a cap maker on the web? I'd love to have one but funds require the cheap route.
Thanks Aaron

Check out page 13 in this document -

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade%20Primer%20Course%202019-06-28.pdf

[joatmon]

Thanks LAGS and ofitg, I'll give it a try!

Aaron

[ofitg]

LAGS - your homemade die sounds similar to the one presented by "Raa-7" on The High Road forum - here is how I implemented Raa-7's idea -

First you punch out a 1/2" disc from thin metal (a leather punch will work). I used the soft sheet aluminum from a disposable pie pan (the aluminum from a beer can was too stiff). Then you cut four radial slits in the disc (I used my wife's cuticle nippers) -

https://i.imgur.com/Y8RghuB.gif

I used a 0.157" diameter steel rod to push this disc through the "Raa-7" homemade die. The die is simply a quarter-inch-thick slab of aluminum with a 0.185" hole (#13 wire gauge bit) drilled through it - the hole is beveled on the top side -

https://i.imgur.com/Df8jmgu.jpg

[LAGS]

That does look very similar.
But like I said.
I started making mine back in the 70's.
I had no guidance , and just winged it on my own cause I had No Money.
But I just figured that if they could do these back in the 1800's, there had to be a way to make them yourself.
I also found that making the Cups out of Disposable Aluminum Pie Tin metal works better because it isn't as brittle as soda or beer cans , and forms easier.
Sheet Copper works also , but drives up the cost

[LAGS]

One other Tip for making a more durable and reliable primer.
When you put the priming compound in the cup, you put in one or two drops of Acetone Mixed with about 10 to 15 drops of Nail Polish in about an Once of Acetone.
The nail polish in the Acetone when dry , acts a a very durable and almost waterproof Binder.
It keeps the priming compound from drying out and turning back to powder and falling out

[Ozark mike]

I just went and picked up some #10s and some small rifle primers. Looked like there was very little available at the store though.

[LAGS]

Went down a couple weeks back to a LGS.
They only had 300 Musket caps left.
And they were almost out of All reloading supplies as well as all ammo except super odd calibers

[Woodnbow]

Check out page 13 in this document -

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade%20Primer%20Course%202019-06-28.pdf
Very interesting, but reading it could land you on a federal watch list... ;-)

[Shawlerbrook]

Thank God I am set for a long while. Have you seen the asking price for primers on Gunbroker.....$100-175/1000. Are they out of their minds.

[ofitg]

One other Tip for making a more durable and reliable primer.
When you put the priming compound in the cup, you put in one or two drops of Acetone Mixed with about 10 to 15 drops of Nail Polish in about an Once of Acetone.
The nail polish in the Acetone when dry , acts a a very durable and almost waterproof Binder.
It keeps the priming compound from drying out and turning back to powder and falling out

LAGS - if you're interested in trying something new, you might consider "Wicket's" method for compressing H48 in percussion caps without any binder at all. I described it in post 466 of this thread -
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?182089-can-you-make-priming-compound/page24

I have to admit, it seemed a little "spooky" when I first tried it..... but thinking about it, if a cap popped during the compression process (and none ever did), how is it so much different from popping a cap on a rifle's nipple 12 inches away from your face?

[Ozark mike]

Thank God I am set for a long while. Have you seen the asking price for primers on Gunbroker.....$100-175/1000. Are they out of their minds.

Sure sounds like it

[LAGS]

Thank you ofitg.
I will give that method a try.
I have the punch already that I use for my Final Forming and squaring of the cups.
I will let you know how it goes , or if it doesn't go well , I will let you know what the back side of the moon looks like.

[Ozark mike]

Check out page 13 in this document -

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade%20Primer%20Course%202019-06-28.pdf

Well that document just made my reloading bucket list that much more time consuming

[LAGS]

Today I tried pressing the primer compound into the cup.
It worked good and looks like it will keep the compound in place without a binder.
But I will try some adding the Acetone and Nail polish to see how that works also.
One advantage I see with pressing the compound is.
Being pressed in place , makes it take up less space in the cup.
For a measure I use a small pistol primer cup soldered to a brass rod as a scoop.
It throws .6 grains of both H48 and FH 42 primer compounds.
I also made up a scoop out of a Large Rifle primer cup soldered to a brass rod.
That one throws 1.0 grains of both primer compounds.
By pressing the compound in place , I can use the larger scoop and not have the primer cup too full to sit properly on the nipple.
I will keep you posted on how my experiments go.
I know there will be more persons wanting to start making their own primers or primer caps if this shortage continues.

[Geezer in NH]

With a stash like that you need to make provisions for their dispersal if you drop dead or your wife will have a garage sale at $1 a sleeve just to get rid of them.Uh he would be dead so Huh?

[TheOutlawKid]

I make my own h-48/fa42 primer mix but i use duco cement thinned in acetone as a binder. Its nitrocellulose glue. Works great and moisture proof

[LAGS]

I did some more testing on the primers done with pressing the priming compound into the cup with my drill press.
After sitting overnight , they were flaking off tiny bits of compound.
It didn't effect the performance.
But the ones that I pressed and put a drop of the binder on did not flake off at all.
I am going to make up two batches.
One with the compound pressed and the binder , the other only pressed.
I will put them into a sealed container and probably set them in my vibrating brass cleaner for a while and see which holds up best.

[LAGS]

I tried putting the home made primers in the tumbler for a few minutes today.
The ones with the priming compound alone did not hold up too well.
They started flaking off very quickly.
And if dropped on the table from about 6" high , the priming compound cracked or fell out.
But the primers made with the binder held up well.
So from now on , I well press the compound in place , then add a drop of my binder.
I do not intend on shooting only home made primers.
But it will give me all the primers I will ever need , and offset the need to find or buy factory primers.
Cost wise , making your own is well worth it.
Time wise , it does seem to take some time.
But look at the time you might spend hunting all over for some primers.
Or for some people , Driving great distances to get primers.

[ofitg]

LAGS - since the main ingredient of nail polish is nitrocellulose, it sounds like you and Outlaw Kid are both using essentially the same type of binder. After you add the drop of nitrocellulose/acetone on top of the pressed primer pellet, how long do you wait for the binder to dry and harden?
I remember that "Wicket" experimented with sealing his caps using liquid shellac, but the caps would not fire unless he waited a long time for the binder to dry completely.

Edit - I'm wondering, how many pounds of force are you applying to the handle of your drill press when you compress the H48? When I was experimenting with this stuff, I was applying up to 20 pounds (perpendicular to the handle). I measured the force by pulling down on the hook under a Berkley hanging scale -

https://i.imgur.com/yLaTpbG.jpg

[LAGS]

I only had to let the binder in the primers dry for a few hours.
But that is here in Arizona , where it has been around 110 degrees for weeks.
But I make up the primers in the morning and test them around noon.
But most are made in the evening and dry overnight to be tested in the morning.
You may have a point about the amount of pressure that I apply to compressing the compound.
I never put any kind of scale on my press handle.
Cause , I don't think many guys on this forum would have a scale to duplicate my procedures.
I am trying to keep my testing and Assembling of the primers Simple and not some Rocket Science project.
I want to be able to Help the average guy to deal with this shortage or just get the Basic Knowledge to do some things on their own.
That is why I try to work with Simple and available tools and materials.
I think Shellac takes much longer to dry.
That would be a good reason my wife doesn't use it for nail polish.
But I may load up a batch of primers and do some testing to see how Waterproof they are.
Who knows , I might be using my own primers for hunting someday.
But a lot of you guys have to deal with a High Humidity Situation when storing the primers for a long time.
The waterproofing will help out with that.

[arcticap]

The shortage seems to be spotty since some folks in some locations have reported that they can get caps locally.
Some of the sporting goods chain stores have them in stock so maybe they're getting large priority shipments as they become available.

[arcticap]

Midway now has CCI #11's in stock @ $52.99 per 1000. --->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301928524?pid=995981

Beware that the RWS caps being sold by Midway, are 1075 Plus even though the product page title doesn't clearly state it.
And a photo of the container of 250 [seen when selecting the quantity] is labeled as being regular 1075's which is misleading.
A user review explains it. --->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022777938

[John Boy]

Midway now has CCI #11's in stock @ $52.99 per 1000.
* They are the only vendor that will ship from an Internet purchase
* Others 'store pickup only' or no ship
* Remingtons = Out of Stock
Based on the current prices, looks like RTK Corp (CCI) has a lock on the market and prices are equal to "Scalper Prices"
When I bought 5000 from Cabelas about 4 years ago, at $32 per 1000... I cringed at the price but the going prices now are really putting it to the percussion shooters

[LAGS]

One advantage to being able to make your own primers is.
I have several friends that shoot Black powder like twice a year.
They don't want to invest in buying 1000 primers on line , only to have them sit for years.
Nor some of them do not have the ability to even invest $50.00 at one time for an hobby that will not be going on for months.
I showed them they could knock out 100 primers in a night at minimal cost when they will need them.

[John Boy]

Finally a source for a Percussion Cap Maker ... https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=654706


#11 caps in theory should work on my Pietta Cap & Ball revolvers that are set up for #10 Remington caps. [smilie=1:

[LAGS]

That cap maker works really good and is well worth the money , IMO
It is easy to use , and makes a very usable primer cup.
I know , I have the exact one.

[ofitg]

You may have a point about the amount of pressure that I apply to compressing the compound.
I never put any kind of scale on my press handle.
Cause , I don't think many guys on this forum would have a scale to duplicate my procedures.
I am trying to keep my testing and Assembling of the primers Simple and not some Rocket Science project.
I want to be able to Help the average guy to deal with this shortage or just get the Basic Knowledge to do some things on their own.
That is why I try to work with Simple and available tools and materials.


Fortunately, I don't think the exact force is very important. According to one of my books, BP manufacturers compress the loose "meal" powder with 1200 PSI to form the hard dense pucks - evidently 1200 PSI is sufficient to make the sulfur go "colloidal" and bind everything together. If you're pulling down on the drill press handle with 10 pounds of force, you're subjecting the H48 to approximately 6000 PSI of pressure..... even 5 pounds of pull on the drill press handle should be more than enough. I expect that the average guy could "guess-timate" the pull and get it somewhere within the range of 5 to 20 pounds.

[LAGS]

With further investigation , I found that pressing my primer compound only Bound the edges.
It formed a Pill with the center still being powder.
The ones that I had put a drop of Binder on After they were pressed were the same , but Way more Durable.
So my next test is to put the priming compound in the cup.
Then add a drop of the binder.
Then press the Damp compound and see if it still holds together better.
Or if the Binder fully penetrates all of the compound and still fires with the same power or flash.
I am glad I have the time to play with this stuff right now.
And I appreciate any suggestions or input that you can supply.

[LAGS]

I did the tests on the primer cups and some .22 LR primed casings.
I let the binder dry inside the house for two hours.
All primers went off no problem.
Yes,
I do reload my own .22 LR's
I started that back in the Ammo Shortage in 2008

[TheOutlawKid]

My primers can be put through heavy abuse and not fall apart. I use duco cement thinned out heavily with acetone. Once i put the primer mix into the cap i then put a drop of the binder...let it sit for about 3-5 minutes for it to.absorb and start hardening and then i place a 5/16 inch rice paper disk over the primer powder and press down on it using the end of a allen wrench that fits into the cup. The reason to wait 3-5 minutes is to allow the binder to dry out a bit and harden a little . it isnt yet hardened but isnt mushy, its made the primer "damp" enough to stick to the rice paper on and the primer is hard enough kinda like play dough so you can compress it with a dowel or tool of choice. I use an allen wrench bit from a screw driver set. The rice paper also keeps the primer sealed and in place and helps protect it. It also burns up completely when exploded and wont clog nipples like you see on store brand caps whos paper disk can clog nipples.

[LAGS]

I will have to give the Rice Paper a try.
I have used thin paper discs when loading my .22s.
But I often would find the disc sitting in the barrel after being fired.

[ofitg]

LAGS – You got my curiosity going, and I had some time to kill, so I pressed a few more H48 caps.
The empty hulls were formed from soft disposable pie pan aluminum, using an old original Forster Tap-O-Cap. I used a small pistol primer cup for a powder measure – that’s adequate priming for a percussion revolver – but it might not be enough for a sidelock percussion rifle, so I “double charged” some of them (pressed down one H48 charge, then added another H48 charge and pressed it down on top of the first one).
Instead of using the hanging scale to measure the force, I replaced one of the “spokes” on the drill press operating handle with a 13” length of threaded rod – that’s a seven-pound weight hanging on the end of the rod – I estimate that the H48 will be subjected to around 10k PSI of pressure. The brass tube around the rod enables me to slide the weight back toward the hub of the operating handle, reducing the force to almost zero when I need to remove the pressed cap and install another un-pressed cap under the drill’s chuck.

https://i.imgur.com/aG3GLEE.jpg

Here’s a close-up of the 0.157” steel rod fully engaged with the aluminum cap hull. Note that the cap hull is sitting on top of a thick steel platform -

https://i.imgur.com/9HLaSTE.jpg

Poking at the pressed H48 pellets with a safety pin, I couldn’t tell that the centers were any softer than the outer edges…. If anything, it might have been just the opposite – the outer edges seemed slightly crumbly. Did you discover the flaking/crumbling after your caps were subjected to the vibratory cleaner? I don’t have a vibratory cleaner so I can’t try it – it’s certainly possible that the vibratory cleaner is more “brutal” than letting the caps bounce around inside the rubber drum of my rock tumbler.

The nitrocellulose/acetone binder used by you and Outlaw Kid sounds like a big improvement over the liquid shellac I have used in the past. A “humidity seal” wouldn’t hurt, the quick drying time is fantastic, and it adds enough durability to survive your vibratory cleaner!

[Idz]

If you have lathe and minimal skill I made a capmaker several years ago described in: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274339-Guide-to-making-percussion-caps&highlight=guide

I made a larger version for musket caps too which may not be in that post but can post the info if any are interested.

[LAGS]

@ofitg.
The caps in the vibrator crumbled around the edges and then a pill of compressed primer compound fell out.
But you are correct about the vibrator being very harsh on the primers , and is way more force than you would have on a Can of caps rattling in your bag or pocket.
But the binder did help greatly and no crumbling was seen.
But the ones that I had placed the binder on top as a sealer after they were pressed still were crumbly if you peeled the metal cap off them.
So far , the ones pressed After adding the binder seemed to be solid almost all the way thru , as well as stuck to the metal cap.
So far using the small primer cap scoop works well in my single shot pistols.
I haven't had a chance to try them in my rifles yet.
It is just TOO Hot to go to the range here.
But just by the sound and the shape of the Fired Cap Metal , I think the Large primer cup scoop will be plenty to fire off a rifle consistently.

[TheOutlawKid]

For my caps i use .005 copper. Its the best i have found to make caps. They stay whole and contain the explosion more as to keep the gasses going into the nipple. When they pop they just spread out into a disk instead of little pieces. I get mine at hobby lobby and use the 40% discount coupon. Heres the link to the roll of 36 gauge (.005) copper. They also have a same size copper sheet but its softer..get the stiffer version. No more soda pop or pie pans. You can also get the same gaue brass but its way stiffer but those cap hulls can usually be reused. The copper ones can as well if u make the priming compound weaker or use roll caps insead
https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbies/Wood-Crafting/Hardware-Tools/Copper-Roll/p/21910

[TheOutlawKid]

Heres the brass sheet. Stuff is great too
https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbies/Wood-Crafting/Hardware-Tools/Soft-Brass-Designer-Metal-Roll/p/23396

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.idz...im no way capable of making a cap maker nor own a lathe. By any chance would i be able to buy a musket cap maker from you?

[LAGS]

I use to use the copper sheet years ago to make my caps.
I actually prefer it over Soda Cans or the Aluminum.
I have been mostly using the cheaper ( Free) materials lately because I want to post materials that are available to almost everybody.
And with shortages of everything popping up all the time, you need a item and tested procedure to fall back on if the times get tougher.

[LAGS]

I swung by Hobby Lobby and picked up a roll of the copper sheeting.
Lucky I have two Hobby Lobby's closer than 5 miles from me.
One was out of the rolls , but the other store had it.
So far , the copper makes a good cup in my primer maker.
They really come out nicely shaped after I push them thru my Home made refining tool.
This copper is soft and easy to work with.
The copper I used years ago was the same thickness but came in a Sheet that was a little harder . The stuff I use to use was scrap from a guy that did Engraving inlays on copper sheeting, like embossed pictures.
The strip of this softer stuff does seem to hang up in my primer maker.
But isn't anything I can't deal with.

On my way home , I stopped by a LGS.
Their shelves were almost empty of ammo , no reloading stuff , and their gun racks were almost empty.
Maybe now would be a good time to sell them a bunch of my surplus rifles and load of safe queens

[dave951]

http://blackpowderva.com/

Jackie still has caps and powder in stock. I just got 3k RWS musket caps and 20lbs of 3f. He's a small guy but a supplier of the North South Skirmish Association and since our shoots have been mostly cancelled, his sales are off. Give him a call and support the little guy. Jackie runs an active farm, if you don't get through immediately, leave a message and he WILL get back to you.

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr. LAGS im glad the copper worked out for you. They also have a brass in that size that works great too but its stiffer. But i love the copper...its my go to material for caps.

[LAGS]

The Copper and Brass worked out great with one minor exception on my end.
Like you said , the two make a stiffer cup.
I had to make another punch that expanded the brass and copper cups a little bit with a slight taper so the empty cup would slide down on the Nipple a little better.
The way the firmer cups came out of the primer maker were too tight and didn't always fire on the first hit.
The punch I made was tapered a little bit and was more the shape of the nipple cone.
I just fit each cup over the tapered punch to check sizing before I put in the priming compound.
Since checking the sizing on my copper cups , I have had All primers fire on the first hit.
The Aluminium cups did not need to be checked because the Aluminium was soft enough to expand enough and let the primer slide down the nipple to fire on the first hit.

[TheOutlawKid]

I use the cap maker from ".22 reloader", and the caps they make dont fit aftermarket nipples like slixshot....but they fit stock pietta and the smaller RMC stainless nipples that only fit CCI #10s. So if im gonna shoot homemade caps i have to switch out my slixshot nipples for stock or RMC nipples...im trying to find someone who can make me a cap maker that will make the larger musket caps...but so far havent found anyone

[LAGS]

To widen out the caps that you make ,
Just take a piece of 1/4" rod or bolt and spin it in your drill motor and file it down to the size of your nipples. ( Poor man's Lathe )
Then just place the cap on a flat surface and tap the rod into your cups.
I use the 22 reloader cap maker also.
I just can't seem to justify buying a Whole New Cap Makers when I can make up a small item to cure certain issues.
I also drilled a hole into a piece of 1/2" steel that I pound the caps thru to swedge down the outsides and square up the end of the cup at the same time as opening up or reforming the inside part of the cup.
The rod I filed down is .170 diameter with a taper down to about .160 at the very top.
The hole in the 1/2" steel is drilled with a 13/64 " drill bit and the starter side is smoothed out with a tapered reamer to make starting the primer cups in easier.

[TheOutlawKid]

Yeah ive widened the caps in the past...actually once shot brass cups that stay whole widen out perfectly to be used on aftermarket nipples...i just prefer to make use of my stock nipples..and since the stuff is really corrosive i dont like using my good nipples. Ive never tried making the caps big enough to be musket caps though..
Not sure if it will leave enough skirting behind after adding the primer mix.

[LAGS]

I rarely shoot rifles with Musket caps , so I have not ventured into making them myself.
But it may be something I could look into.