in a perfect world a smelting pot would be tall and narrow right?

[guy_with_boolits]

I understand the use of frying pans and what not because they are available, but wouldnt a tall narrow smelting pot make the separation of molten lead and everything else much more distinct and make it easier to skim off dross, dirt, etc..?

within reason of course...so lets say between an 8" dia 2" deep frying pan and a 4" diameter 8" deep cylindrical pot, the 4x8 would be superior for the actual smelting process right? (ignoring the practicality of heating it efficiently)

[robg]

i agree but heating efficiently would be a problem

[Froogal]

I have no problem at all skimming the dross and impurities from an 8 inch cast iron skillet.

[Bazoo]

Neither is ideal. I'd rather have the pan though. What works well is a pot about 8" diameter or larger and 6"-8" deep. Many of us including myself use half a propane tank as a pot. I have a couple small air compressors that the ends will make dandy smaller pots. One of them I found in the neighbors trash.

[Conditor22]

Love my propane tank smelting pot. Sturdy, stable, short enough to allow easy dipping and the rounded bottom make dipping and cleaning easier
https://i.imgur.com/1pwONkm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/AS1F8HE.jpg

[jsizemore]

Imagine trying to stir and scrape the sides of a 4" wide X 8"tall pot. Then trying to get the last of the lead from the lower third.

Dutch oven is about the best compromise I've found. I haven't tried a repurposed LP tank. Seems that curved bottom and flat sides would be a problem fitting a stirring/scraping utensil to fit.

I'm gonna stick with my 10 quart dutch oven.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Those side present no issue at all . You should try one there are plenty of those old tanks out there and they work great for mid to large size melts , I have 4 large ladles that were all for dipping lead and with the sides going down to a curve it is no problem to scrape and dip and get all but a small puddle out which when cool is a nice pot size ingot of its own.

I think a 4 inch diameter would be a issue unless it had a bottom pour valve , but heck make one and see how it does in comparison , I have used pans pots and cans over the years and for melting scrap the converted propane tank is tops.

[charlie b]

2qt or 4qt pots. And, yes, for more than those can handle a dutch oven works well too. It can get a bit heavy to pour from.

[jsizemore]

My smelting ladle can pour 4lbs. That's 2 cupcake muffins or 6 mini muffins.

The part about the tank being curved on the bottom and flat on the sides bothers me. My long handled BBQ spatula fits my flat bottom and flat sided dutch oven that holds 160lbs of cleaned alloy. Those tanks do look interesting and I have a couple hanging around without the safety valve. I keep them around in case my dutch oven gives up.

[gwpercle]

No ... You need room for stirring , fluxing and skimming .
If a pot is too narrow and really deep it will make it hard to stir and get the flux down into the bottom . After many years of melting wheel weights and all kinds of scrap lead I like a pot 16 " inches in diameter and about 12"- 16" deep . You need room at the top to stir in flux and skim off trash .
The diameter of the Propane Tank in post #5 seems just about right as does the rounded bottom .
For a stirring spoon I use an 18" stainless steel spoon that has 1/8" dia. holes in the bowl , this lets lead run out the holes and the bowl catches any trash and aids in stirring the melt .
Tag on it reads ... Winco, BSPT- 18 , perforated basting spoon... it's the absolute best thing to stir , flux and skim melting alloy with !
Gary

[Huskerguy]

I have a couple of round cast pots. Makes getting the lead out and scraping the top easier.

My question is what is the advantage of the metal propane tank versus a cast pots. Seems like the cast would heat slower but retain the heat longer. Is one better than the other?

[onelight]

It would seem the round bottom eliminates the corner at the bottom of the pot , seems that would be a good thing. , but apparently they all work cause we see success with all shapes.

[Mk42gunner]

After breaking a cast iron triangular corn bread mold trying to get lead ingots out of it, I don't trust a Chinese cast iron dutch oven with ~700 degree lead in it. I have a tendency to tap my stirring utensil on the side of the pot, and a sharp rap is supposed to be one of the things that easily cracks cast iron.

I made my smelting pot from 8" schedule 40 iron pipe with a ¼" bottom welded on. IIRC it is eight or nine inches high and will hold around 100 pounds of molten alloy. It works and isn't likely to let loose all at once.

If I were to do it again, I would cut an old propane tank and use a ring of it to make a heat directing collar, I didn't have one when I made my pot, I had a piece of pipe and some plate.

I wouldn't go any narrower than the 8" my pot is, ladling the last inch or so of alloy is pretty much a lost cause.

Robert

[jsizemore]

After breaking a cast iron triangular corn bread mold trying to get lead ingots out of it, I don't trust a Chinese cast iron dutch oven with ~700 degree lead in it. I have a tendency to tap my stirring utensil on the side of the pot, and a sharp rap is supposed to be one of the things that easily cracks cast iron.

I made my smelting pot from 8" schedule 40 iron pipe with a ¼" bottom welded on. IIRC it is eight or nine inches high and will hold around 100 pounds of molten alloy. It works and isn't likely to let loose all at once.

If I were to do it again, I would cut an old propane tank and use a ring of it to make a heat directing collar, I didn't have one when I made my pot, I had a piece of pipe and some plate.

I wouldn't go any narrower than the 8" my pot is, ladling the last inch or so of alloy is pretty much a lost cause.

Robert

I figure most folks don't realize the force generated when the thin edge of the utensil is rapped hard against the edge of the pot. Done enough times most any cast pot is gonna give.

[Gtek]

My iron pot set up which I believe was a plumbers set up holds a little over 40 pounds. It has a shield ring that gives about 1/2" gap from top edge to just below bottom parallel to flame. I have used nothing but so nothing to compare but it sure seems to work well.

[lightman]

In my opinion, short and fat is better than tall and narrow, in a smelting pot. You need room to scrape and stir but you also need room for the ladle to reach the bottom. I prefer them being twice as wide as tall. Wider is also more stable.

[redhawk0]

I've got no problem smelting/skimming with my 12" diameter 12" deep propane tank pot. I do use a 200K BTU burner so it's never been a problem.

redhawk

265035

[ioon44]

I like my propane tank smelting pot, I have not seen any other pot that I would rather use.

[guy_with_boolits]

After breaking a cast iron triangular corn bread mold trying to get lead ingots out of it, I don't trust a Chinese cast iron dutch oven with ~700 degree lead in it. I have a tendency to tap my stirring utensil on the side of the pot, and a sharp rap is supposed to be one of the things that easily cracks cast iron.

I made my smelting pot from 8" schedule 40 iron pipe with a ¼" bottom welded on. IIRC it is eight or nine inches high and will hold around 100 pounds of molten alloy. It works and isn't likely to let loose all at once.

If I were to do it again, I would cut an old propane tank and use a ring of it to make a heat directing collar, I didn't have one when I made my pot, I had a piece of pipe and some plate.

I wouldn't go any narrower than the 8" my pot is, ladling the last inch or so of alloy is pretty much a lost cause.

Robert

so wouldnt a smelting pot that has a large opening bottom pour for when you are done skimming be the bees knees?

[country gent]

In a perfect world the smelting pots would be 600+ lbs and always full of the perfect alloy for what your doing. :kidding:

[country gent]

With care cast iron is very good but heat it to fast and it can crack it dosnt take to expansion well. I fired my pot up one cold morning and being in a hurry opened the burner up higher and quicker than usual. about 10 mins in and I heard a tink and lead running on the floor the pot had cracked from to fast uneven expansion.

[blackthorn]

I cut my 20lb propane tank just below the top shoulder. My son is a welder so I had him form a pouring spout on one side. he also made a lid. He welded a large steel washer (one inch hole) on each side and these will allow me to pass a 3/4" steel bar through and support it on each end with jack-stands. this way I can suspend the pot slightly above the flame from my 3-ring burner and allow me to use vise-grips to tip the pot to pour. I can also dip from it. The depth allows me to fill the pot with wheel weights cold and easily skim off the scrap as the melt progresses. Works for me.

[gwpercle]

I have a couple of round cast pots. Makes getting the lead out and scraping the top easier.

My question is what is the advantage of the metal propane tank versus a cast pots. Seems like the cast would heat slower but retain the heat longer. Is one better than the other?

They are be free .
You can only refill them so many years after that the hardware store wont refill them and you get to buy a new one ....the old one ...it's your's , so make a melting pot !
My Grandma would "cut a switch" if she caught me using good cast iron for anything but cooking food !

[Gtek]

Sorry for the drift but "cut a switch" rattled me, have not heard that in fifty years. Mom was West By God Virginia, wait till your dad gets home was never in the equation.

[elmacgyver0]

They are be free .
You can only refill them so many years after that the hardware store wont refill them and you get to buy a new one ....the old one ...it's your's , so make a melting pot !
My Grandma would "cut a switch" if she caught me using good cast iron for anything but cooking food !

You can always take them to a store that takes an empty tank and gives you a full one.
They even take the ones with the old style valve.
That's what I do, recently upgraded 3 old style tanks and have one more once it is empty.

[kmw1954]

Not certain how much it will hold but I have an empty blue helium tank that will be getting cut in two. This one is about 9" in diameter and will be about 6/7" deep.

[elmacgyver0]

Not certain how much it will hold but I have an empty blue helium tank that will be getting cut in two. This one is about 9" in diameter and will be about 6/7" deep.

Should be about perfect unless you're casting for the county.

[William Yanda]

i agree but heating efficiently would be a problem

and it would be harder to stir

[Gunslinger1911]

12 (I think) qt dutch oven from Harbor Freight.
And I don't whack it with the ladle.
Something like 150 lbs capacity
Wide enough to stir / mix / flux well - deep enough to hold enough alloy to make the smelt worth it.
Usually 2-3 smelts in an afternoon (yes, a long afternoon !)

[Conditor22]

Imagine trying to stir and scrape the sides of a 4" wide X 8"tall pot. Then trying to get the last of the lead from the lower third.

Dutch oven is about the best compromise I've found. I haven't tried a repurposed LP tank. Seems that curved bottom and flat sides would be a problem fitting a stirring/scraping utensil to fit.

I'm gonna stick with my 10 quart dutch oven.

not a problem, these are the tools I use https://i.imgur.com/DcWKybA.jpg

[kmw1954]

Tonight while getting the charcoal grill going I was able to dig out the 4" angle grinder and cut my Helium tank in half Looks like it will work just fine and is at least 3X larger than what I was using. Now if it will melt 3X as much in 1/3 the total time I'll be as happy as a pig in mud.

[Conditor22]

kmw1954 IF you have a weilder, cut another ring out of the top section and weild it to the base for more stability. [weld 3" then bent out 3" (for flames/heat to go up the sides of the pot) do this all the way around {see my picture on the previous page of this thread}

[kmw1954]

Sadly I do not have a welder but I know what you have. I believe one of the guys I work with has a small welder.

[303Guy]

I was looking at a smaller gas bottle at the scrap metal dealer. I didn't ask for it because I know I have stainless steel pots I kept for the purpose. But I did get 5kg sheet lead for the price of 4! I have a BBQ gas burner that would be ideal for the gas bottle pot. I could have made it with its own legs. That curved bottom is ideal for scooping out. Oh well, I'll just make a pot stand.

Actually, I have a helium bottle of just the right size. Mmmm .... But my stainless pot is about right although not as deep as I would like. A deep pot is great for those longish pieces of lead to stand up in, not for the deep melt specifically. I've been dragging that old BBQ gas burner around for a number of years now. Time to put them together.

[fcvan]

The last time I did a big smelt I used a steel 3 lb coffee can on a propane cook stove. I had a cone shaped heat shroud that was wider at the bottom. I use a stainless ladle with a pair of vise grips. It made the long handle longer and two different metals did not transfer heat to the vise grip. Even so, long leather welding gloves (Harbor Freight) were used at all times. Flux used ground walnut (polishing media) and of course, out doors.

I have an old propane tank and several old helium tanks from birthdays while raising my girls. Propane tank will be a small BBQ, helium tanks will become auxiliary air tanks. Smelting pot will be a plumber's pot/burner given to me since my last big smelt.

A previous post mentioned a bottom pour spigot. Somewhere on here, I saw an example where a boolit trap, vertical snail type, collected lead at the bottom. The bottom, although removable, could also be fired up at the range/trap site, and the collected lead melted out. I think that looked like the bee's knees and can't wait to get the steel, weld up the trap, and smelt at the range site. I already have the welder and worked in the oilfields until I was old enough to go into law enforcement. I can't wait, so many retirement projects I wonder how I ever found time to work!

[Winger Ed.]

If I was going to get, or more nearly make one-- Conditioner22's is the pattern I'd use.

[44Blam]

In my opinion, short and fat is better than tall and narrow.
That's what she said...

[gwpercle]

Sorry for the drift but "cut a switch" rattled me, have not heard that in fifty years. Mom was West By God Virginia, wait till your dad gets home was never in the equation.

LIKE !
I would much prefer waiting until Dad got home . I don't know if Mom ever knew this (I never told her) but it hurt my Dad when he had to spank us ... He usually closed the door and gave me a long lecture (a few swats would have been less painful ) then he would hit the bed with his belt a couple times and I would holler so Mom would think he whooped me .... my old man was something else .
When Mom cut a switch... she inflicted some real pain on your legs !

[fredj338]

I understand the use of frying pans and what not because they are available, but wouldnt a tall narrow smelting pot make the separation of molten lead and everything else much more distinct and make it easier to skim off dross, dirt, etc..?

within reason of course...so lets say between an 8" dia 2" deep frying pan and a 4" diameter 8" deep cylindrical pot, the 4x8 would be superior for the actual smelting process right? (ignoring the practicality of heating it efficiently)
A welder friend of mine made several tall smelting pots with bottom pour spouts for pouring. They were 8" pipe I think, about 14" tall. The problem was getting the heat to the top of the melt. So he has since shortened them to about 9-10".

[DonHowe]

My smelting pot was custom made 35 years ago, 16" dia. X 8" deep. I do not recall why I chose those dimensions. I do recall calculating that full to the brim (never has been) it would hold nearly 500 lbs.

[MT Gianni]

10" diameter weld cap and 12" high piece of pipe welded together look great. Weld three pieces of angle iron for legs and mine has only lasted 20+ years with no wear. I worry about an LP tank melting through.

Fred, the bottom melts first and the heat of the melt adds to the alloy as it slowly melt down. It is like standing a large ingot in a pot of alloy. Once you get 3-4 inches deep it really moves.

[Jtarm]

Love my propane tank smelting pot. Sturdy, stable, short enough to allow easy dipping and the rounded bottom make dipping and cleaning easier
https://i.imgur.com/1pwONkm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/AS1F8HE.jpg

Sweet!

How do you cut them?

[blackthorn]

I; fill the tank with water (extra safety), Cut a bout a 4" hole around the valve, Dump the water, lay the tank on its side and cut it wherever I want. All cuts are made with a hand-held zip-cut.

[RogerDat]

Harbor Freight Dutch oven has lasted through at least a couple of tons of lead. Yes one doesn't want to whack stuff against the rim.

I use a 9# bottom pour ladle and I can't get the last few inches from the pot with it. I end up using a soup ladle with the handle bent to quickly fill the big ladle with a few scoops of the soup ladle then pour. The angle to scoop to the bottom doesn't allow for getting much in a ladle that large. By bending the Salvation Army soup ladle handle I'm able to get it pretty far down.

Steel pipe would be stronger, and could be sized to the burner. The collar ring on the bottom to catch heat instead of letting it flow up the pot on the propane tank pots is a nice feature. Now ideal would be....

The steel pot with side collar and 3/4 inch threaded rod pin for the bottom pour valve. :-) That there would be the smelting pot to have. Member made one and posted pictures and details. Was pretty sweet. Well over 100# capacity and big bottom pour spout made from black pipe. If I ever happen to get a ships keel ballast to melt....

[HogRider666]

Not keen on cutting propane tanks, so I cut an old air compressor tank, it holds about 50 kg (110lbs) I haven’t smelted in it yet-but if things work out tomorrow I’ll give it a try.
My cousin has a tire company, so I get a few hundred kilograms a year of WW.

[kevin c]

For me, capacity matters in a processing pot, along with free access for scraping down the sides of the pot and a wide enough surface to the melt to make fluxing and skimming easy. The wide rather than tall approach of a Dutch oven or propane tank pot works for that, and I current ladle out of a half propane tank pot that has a spout to pour out the last of the alloy (light enough by then to lift with a pair of vise grips).

A big steel serving spoon or a round tip spring steel icing spatula deals with the curved bottom pretty well.

[HawgBonz]

Is that a Calphalon Aluminum pot yer using? Reason I ask, I picked up a couple a few days ago at the metal recycler and they look a lot like that. But then when I got back I read a lotta posts about not using aluminum pots. Izzit safe to use them if they're thick like that? Cause the two I got are pretty thick.
Thanks.. d:^)


not a problem, these are the tools I use

266512

[greenjoytj]

Don’t use an aluminum pot no mater how thick it is. The temperature from the propane flame is hot enough to soften the aluminum pot to the point where weight of the lead in the pot will burst the weakened aluminum pot.

I even cringe at seeing cast iron pots of any size being use for smelting or casting. Their too easily cracked.

A cut up and modified 20 pound propane tank is probably the cheapest entry point to a large safe smelting pot. Custom made stainless steel pot is the more expensive route.

[Conditor22]

Is that a Calphalon Aluminum pot yer using? Reason I ask, I picked up a couple a few days ago at the metal recycler and they look a lot like that. But then when I got back I read a lotta posts about not using aluminum pots. Izzit safe to use them if they're thick like that? Cause the two I got are pretty thick.
Thanks.. d:^)



266512

I rarely use this aluminum pot almost all my smelting is in my cut propane tank. but for small batches ------

[guy_with_boolits]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfk1vL9JWk4

[HawgBonz]

I put the Calphalon pots from the other day to use elsewhere. Found a SS pot in the downstairs kitchen for my really small batches.
It does fine on the hot plate. Thanks.. d:^)


I rarely use this aluminum pot almost all my smelting is in my cut propane tank. but for small batches ------

[WRideout]

I have been using a smallish cast iron pot for at least twenty years now. A while ago, in an effort to get a hardened chunk of lead out, I rapped the pot a little too hard, causing a crack on the side. Oddly, I can fill it with lead to the top of the crack without leaking, due to the surface tension of the molten lead. I thought about brazing the crack, but never really had the need to do it.

Wayne

[HawgBonz]

I was wondering if cast iron could be welded. Was thinkin bout MIGing "LEAD" on the side so it wouldn't get into someone's hands later down the line for cooking. Plus, when I cut the legs off there was a void in one of them.
..Anybody welded on these cheap CI pots before? d:^)


I thought about brazing the crack, but never really had the need to do it. Wayne

[mattw]

I use a half propane tank, works great! I would not want something that was dimensionaly taller than wider... I would worry about it tipping over and that is a situation I would never want to be in.

[shootinfox2]

Best efficiency is a cylinder with equal height to width ratio.Too tall ypu can’t get in it, too wide you lose heat.

[mac1911]

Ideally we all want something like this but that fits out personal space
https://youtu.be/pgsWq-NTDGk

[WRideout]

I was wondering if cast iron could be welded. Was thinkin bout MIGing "LEAD" on the side so it wouldn't get into someone's hands later down the line for cooking. Plus, when I cut the legs off there was a void in one of them.
..Anybody welded on these cheap CI pots before? d:^)

This may be a little late, but I thought I would answer anyway. I have not personally tried it, but in my reading it seems that welding cast iron is a bit tricky. It appears that brazing may be the way to go, but it can difficult to keep thermal stresses on the pot from creating another crack. When I lived with an old-time machinist, he would frequently braze large pieces together.

Wayne

[HawgBonz]

This may be a little late, but I thought I would answer anyway. Wayne
Not late a'tall.. Thankyasir! d:^)

[Conditor22]

When an aluminum pot gets too hot

https://i.imgur.com/TO8DDf2.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/455hfsA.jpg

[indian joe]

Don’t use an aluminum pot no mater how thick it is. The temperature from the propane flame is hot enough to soften the aluminum pot to the point where weight of the lead in the pot will burst the weakened aluminum pot.

I even cringe at seeing cast iron pots of any size being use for smelting or casting. Their too easily cracked.

A cut up and modified 20 pound propane tank is probably the cheapest entry point to a large safe smelting pot. Custom made stainless steel pot is the more expensive route.

I tried a stainless cooking pot (my son had "borrowed" my hand made steel pot) dont know what crazy chemistry happened in there but my boolit alloy did all sorts of strange things until I moved it back into a cast iron cooking pot where life returned to normal - of course there are many and varied stainless alloys but based on my limited experience - stainless is NOT the way to go!

[44magLeo]

From new propane tanks they get filled till 12 years old. At this point you get them recertified every 5 or 6 years.
As long as they are cared for so they don't get rusty the might last forever.
Taking old tanks to drop and swap sellers works to get good tanks except you only get 15 lbs. of propane. At $20 that is about $1.35 per lb. It often cheaper to find a place to get then refilled. The place I take mine to charges $11 to fill and you get 20 lbs. of propane. This is about $.55 per lb. They send me coupons that let me fill a tank for $7.99. that's about $.40 per lb.
I keep two 20 lb. tanks for the BBQ and running the turkey fryer. Two 40 lb. tanks for the cook strove and clothes dryer. Getting the refilled saves me some cash.
While your there they often have old tanks setting around. They pull the valves and sell them for scrap. If you ask nice they may give you one with the valve already out.
Once you get it home fill it with water this pushes the propane out. Then leave it set upside down a day or two to dry. Smell the hole. If it smells like propane repeat the water rinse/dry cycle again.
Once you get to where it don't smell there is no propane to worry about. Cut it off at the seam or up near the top. How ever tall you cut it leaving enough to cut a ring as shown in post 5 is a good idea. This makes a more stable pot.
I like the idea of adding the large washers at the top to add a handle, and the pour spout. This would make getting the last bit of melt out. I used my 4 1/2 " angle grinder with cut off wheels.
I started with my tank cut near the top I cut it just where the body starts to curve over. I decided to cut it of shorter. It felt a bit tippy. The depth made it hard for fluxing and dipping.
I also cut off some one lb. bottles. Both the tall skinny ones and the short fat ones. I added handles to make two sizes of dippers. The tall skinny bottle holds about 6 or 7 lbs. The short fat one about 11 or 12 lbs. This is at about level full. Less when in use. I found the bigger one a bit heavy. The small works well. I have molds from here that make the 2.5 lb. ingots as well as some molds for 1 lb. ingots. The small dipper easily fills two of the ingots in the big molds. It about 1/2 fills another.
I fill two then dip more for the other two. Half filling one then adding more kinda throws off the rhythm.
With 4 of these molds going by the time I get the fourth one full the first is about ready to dump out. Then I can fill that one then dump the next. Once going it's a nice rhythm. One that's not so fast I get to tired before the pot get empty.
Leo