Help with 35 Rem dies

[NyFirefighter357]

I picked up a set of Lyman AA 35 Remington dies They are an older set in the black cardboard box. It also came with the wrench. I have now figured I need to get the M die and the shell holder. Since I'm making an order I want to make sure I didn't miss anything, what else do I need to load 35 Rem with cast pistol bullets? I'm also having a problem with the full length sizing die even with lube it takes several attempts and a lot of pressure to get the die to the base. I think I might have to clean & polish it.

[onelight]

What press are you using ?

[EDG]

I once owed several sets of Lyman dies of that era. They were all pretty tight when used and needed to be cleaned out and polished and used with a good lube. I eventually got rid of all my Lyman dies and bought RCBS dies for (4) .35 Remingtons that I shoot.



I picked up a set of Lyman AA 35 Remington dies They are an older set in the black cardboard box. It also came with the wrench. I have now figured I need to get the M die and the shell holder. Since I'm making an order I want to make sure I didn't miss anything, what else do I need to load 35 Rem with cast pistol bullets? I'm also having a problem with the full length sizing die even with lube it takes several attempts and a lot of pressure to get the die to the base. I think I might have to clean & polish it.

[skeettx]

Clean the dies thoroughly
Pre-lube the dies with Imperial Sizing Wax (Q-Tip)
Lube a case with Imperial Sizing Wax
Run it a SMALL way up into the die, withdraw
and rotate case 45 degrees, a bit more up into the
die, withdraw and rotate case 45 degrees, a bit more up into the
die, withdraw and rotate case 45 degrees, a bit more up into the
die, withdraw and rotate case 45 degrees, final size the case.
Lube the next case and size in one stroke most of the time.
Please report and let us know how this did for you
Mike

[NyFirefighter357]

Ok, I have some answers and some more questions. First I'm kinda hacking this together waiting to order the M die. I was using the Lee Breech Lock Reloader Press I bought to use strictly for decapping but it was easily accessible. I was just playing around and grabbed what I had in front of me as lube which was neutral shoe polish & Mothers paste car wax. After dinner & asking my question I returned to the scene of the crime & realized the bottom of the case wasn't lubed as I was just dabbing some on with my finger. I lubed the base of the half sized case and it finished easier. I then carfully lubed the next case and near had to stand on it to get it to size at all. I removed the case & after a minute of looking at the oddly shaped case I checked the rim & found it to be a 308 round. After sifting through the close to 100 cases I found 10 308's. After removing them I used my go to case lube Kleins synthetic wire pulling wax. I put the cases back in the container & with a little squirt & shake fully lubed the cases. The sizing went much easier & I was able to finish them. The next step was to expand the mouth of the case which I manually used the expander from a Lee 38 die set. which works ok but is time consuming. I then tried seating a .358 sized 158gr swc to the crimp groove and found I collapsed the case at the neck. This old die has a solid .356 mandrel. Which I think might be to tight. My next question is can I replace the mandrel with the newer button type expander or get a larger sized mandrel? I also found the bevel in the base of the die to have a bur, I cleaned that up with a cone shaped sanding pad I might still polish it out. The body of the die looks good inside.

[NyFirefighter357]

I once owed several sets of Lyman dies of that era. They were all pretty tight when used and needed to be cleaned out and polished and used with a good lube. I eventually got rid of all my Lyman dies and bought RCBS dies for (4) .35 Remingtons that I shoot.

I think this is true as the unsized brass chambered without issue. This was brass I bough about 2 years ago & looks to have been tight necked as the .356 mandrel was also tight going in. A majority of the brass is R P with a few Hornady brass. I checked them and they were full length not the shorter Leverevolution brass.

[44magLeo]

I might suggest the Lee universal expander but not use the tapered plugs that come with the die.
Get NOE expander plugs. They are shaped like the plug in Lyman's M die but they are available in a wider range of sizes.
The Lyman M die you need a complete die for each caliber you load. The Lee die and NOE plugs you use one die body for all cartridges, just use the appropriate expander plug.
Un your sizing issue I would do a good cleaning on the die then do as skeettx suggested. If that improves the issue, good to go, if not you can try polishing the die.
Leo

[richhodg66]

I never found the .35 Remington hard to handload even with plain based pistol bullets. I've used Lee dies and RCBS dies and I use a Lee universal expander for the case mouth.

[1hole]

... grabbed what I had in front of me as lube which was neutral shoe polish & Mothers paste car wax.

Don't know about Mother's but Kiwi shoe wax works fine, neutral won't die your fingers. Kiwi "Mink Oil" is a soft wax and that makes it much easier to finger lube.


... the bottom of the case wasn't lubed as I was just dabbing some on with my finger. I lubed the base of the half sized case and it finished easier.

Failure to properly lube the lower part of a case accounts for more sizing difficulty and stuck cases than anything else. A finger tip is a poor "paint brush", apply your lube with thumb and finger tips rolled and rubbed over each case as you pick it up to size; after you get the hang of it, and develop a rhythm, lubing will add no more than a couple seconds to your sizing time.

[quote]... I then tried seating a .358 sized 158gr swc to the crimp groove and found I collapsed the case at the neck. This old die has a solid .356 mandrel. Which I think might be to tight. My next question is can I replace the mandrel with the newer button type expander or get a larger sized mandrel?

No thin brass neck will collapse during seating any bullet that can set on/in the case mouth after flairing, the necks WILL expand to accept any reasonable bullets. The only thing I know of that will set a neck back in collapse is having the seater's crimp ring set much too low. When adjusted correctly, Lyman's M die does an excellent job of neck expanding & mouth flairing and it works equally well for both jacketed and cast bullets.

I've used Lyman's dies (and all others except Dillon) since '65 with complete satisfaction. The ONLY difficulty I have experienced with sizing by ANY dies has been my own failure to properly lube the cases in my learning days; no die can fix the loose nut holding the press lever.

Surprising but true, a mirror polish in a sizer is not easier to use. A soft matt finish holds case size lube in place much better than a high shine, that's why the cylinder walls of auto engines are never polished shiny!

[NyFirefighter357]

I might suggest the Lee universal expander but not use the tapered plugs that come with the die.
Get NOE expander plugs. They are shaped like the plug in Lyman's M die but they are available in a wider range of sizes.
The Lyman M die you need a complete die for each caliber you load. The Lee die and NOE plugs you use one die body for all cartridges, just use the appropriate expander plug.
Un your sizing issue I would do a good cleaning on the die then do as skeettx suggested. If that improves the issue, good to go, if not you can try polishing the die.
Leo

I'm OK with Lee dies. I have several 4 die sets. I'll get the universal expanding die & the NOE plugs

[NyFirefighter357]

Don't know about Mother's but Kiwi shoe wax works fine, neutral won't die your fingers. Kiwi "Mink Oil" is a soft wax and that makes it much easier to finger lube.

[quote]... the bottom of the case wasn't lubed as I was just dabbing some on with my finger. I lubed the base of the half sized case and it finished easier.

Failure to properly lube the lower part of a case accounts for more sizing difficulty and stuck cases than anything else. A finger tip is a poor "paint brush", apply your lube with thumb and finger tips rolled and rubbed over each case as you pick it up to size; after you get the hang of it, and develop a rhythm, lubing will add no more than a couple seconds to your sizing time.



No thin brass neck will collapse during seating any bullet that can set on/in the case mouth after flairing, the necks WILL expand to accept any reasonable bullets. The only thing I know of that will set a neck back in collapse is having the seater's crimp ring set much too low. When adjusted correctly, Lyman's M die does an excellent job of neck expanding & mouth flairing and it works equally well for both jacketed and cast bullets.

I've used Lyman's dies (and all others except Dillon) since '65 with complete satisfaction. The ONLY difficulty I have experienced with sizing by ANY dies has been my own failure to properly lube the cases in my learning days; no die can fix the loose nut holding the press lever.

Surprising but true, a mirror polish in a sizer is not easier to use. A soft matt finish holds case size lube in place much better than a high shine, that's why the cylinder walls of auto engines are never polished shiny!

It was Kiwi Neutral I normally use as a release agent. The application was the issue.

The only other thing that could have happened is it wasn't set right and it crimped before it was fully seated. I really think this was the problem.

I am one of those loose nut's your talking about!

[NyFirefighter357]

I might suggest the Lee universal expander but not use the tapered plugs that come with the die.
Get NOE expander plugs. They are shaped like the plug in Lyman's M die but they are available in a wider range of sizes.
The Lyman M die you need a complete die for each caliber you load. The Lee die and NOE plugs you use one die body for all cartridges, just use the appropriate expander plug.
Un your sizing issue I would do a good cleaning on the die then do as skeettx suggested. If that improves the issue, good to go, if not you can try polishing the die.
Leo

The steps to properly adjust the NOE Expander Plug (the solid top plug) in either the Lee Universal Case Expanding Die or the Powder through Expander Die capped with a Lee Adjusting Screw are........

I use the powder through expander dies now so this shouldn't be an issue.

[uscra112]

.35 Rem was the first cartridge I cast for, long, long ago, when I inherited my old Dad's 336 Marlin.

Nothing to do with dies, but if you're going to shoot pistol bullets with reduced loads like I did, use pistol primers, and open up the flash holes to ar least .110". The .35 Rem is second only to the .35 Whelen in susceptibility to shoulder setback.

And if you've got a Microgroove Marlin, size your bullets to .360", and use an appropriately large expander plug from NOE so you don't wind up sizing them down when seating.

RCBS case lube and their foam pad will handle the sizing-lube problem. RCBS lube washes off completely in hot water, which you can't say about any of the waxes.

[Leslie Sapp]

You might not need to run it all the way to the base.
.35 Remington is known to have failures to fire if undersized.
Size the cases just enough to reliably chamber in your gun and try a few.

[NyFirefighter357]

The steps to properly adjust the NOE Expander Plug (the solid top plug) in either the Lee Universal Case Expanding Die or the Powder through Expander Die capped with a Lee Adjusting Screw are........

I use the powder through expander dies now so this shouldn't be an issue.

Does the NOE expander plug work in the powder through die with the powder measure?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

For 35 Rem in several Marlin's - sizing die, I have Herter's, Lee, RCBS - I used to set a die up for each rifle, now I use Redding Competition shellholder(the 308 size works fine), keeping notes on each rifle to get correct headspace/cartridge fit for each rifle, I DO NOT neck expand in the sizer die, I use the Lee Sizer with a decapping pin and no expanding plug. I use a Lyman 'M' die or Lee with NOE 'M' style expanding plug, depending on bullet diameter. Usually use a Lee Seater and a Lee Factory Crimp for the tube feed Marlin's. Drilling the primer pocket for light loads is a good thing with the 35 Rem. I do use a Lee Collet Neck Sizer for some of my 35 Rem loading. Your Lyman dies should work fine, an 'M' stepped expander helps a great deal when working with cast bullets. You can crimp and seat in the Lyman Seater, careful tinkering and adjustment can get the seating and crimping in a single step, or just seat in one step and adjust the die to crimp in a separate step. When crimping, uniform case length becomes important with MOST seating/crimping dies. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is less fussy about case length than others. The NOE expander will work in the powder thru die, but I don't think NOE is making powder thru 'M' expanders anymore (they did, I have a couple). Of course they work in Lee's Universl Expander die.

[farmbif]

I use the expander out of the RCBS COWBOY 38/357 die set and it works fine for gas checked boolits sized to .360 to shoot in microgroove barrel.
long ago having been brought up on Lyman and RCBS lube and pads I switched over to imperial wax and never looked back. its not the cheapest option but a little goes a long way and it just works real well and I get to inspect every case while putting the size wax on.
I have the same Lyman AA chromed dies for 35 rem and would not trade them for anything. sometimes I resize in lee hand press sometimes if I only have a few to do and its good exercise I guess but it works.

[NyFirefighter357]

Well I made some progress tonight. The die wasn't set up correctly and had crimped before fully seating. I made a batch of dummy rounds and had a hard time getting them the full cartridge to seat in the chamber. I then pulled the bullets and tried a little narrower shaped bullet. I switched to the 359-640HP. I filled the magazine with 7 dummies and they all fed & ejected perfectly. https://i.imgur.com/VSt8I7e.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/c3Cafmo.jpg

[1hole]

I am one of those loose nut's your talking about!

Ditto. :)

[1hole]

...having been brought up on Lyman and RCBS lube and pads I switched over to imperial wax and never looked back.

I have the same record, that was just the way lubing was done back then. Then I tried Imperial! But then I tried Hornady's Unique and like it even better for rapid three finger application; check it out! ;)


I have the same Lyman AA chromed dies for 35 rem and would not trade them for anything.

Lyman's chrome is only on the outside so it's never been a problem that I can see. But, I never much liked Lyman's AA seaters, it has too many things to line up for the very best accuracy.

[EDG]

The cross hatch honing texture of an engine cylinder has nothing to do with each of passage. The cross hatch holds oil to better lubricate the rings and pistons but does not otherwise reduce friction.
Highly polished dies and brass on the other hand do reduce the force required to size lubricated cases.



Surprising but true, a mirror polish in a sizer is not easier to use. A soft matt finish holds case size lube in place much better than a high shine, that's why the cylinder walls of auto engines are never polished shiny!

[1hole]

The cross hatch honing texture of an engine cylinder has nothing to do with each of passage. The cross hatch holds oil to better lubricate the rings and pistons but does not otherwise reduce friction.

Highly polished dies and brass on the other hand do reduce the force required to size lubricated cases.

How/why? Seems if a high polish is slicker then we shouldn't even need a lube, just a better polish! Nope.

You know "cross hatch" lubes great for rings and cylinders but don't otherwise reduce friction, right? (Actually, I thought holding lube is all the cross hatch is surface is supposed to do. ??) But you believe micro-hatch (matt finished) sizers won't hold lube better than polished? Well ....

I can easily polish my dies to mirror finish if I wish but I've found they're slicker/easier to use when matt finished! That experiment's result wasn't what I expected but that's what happened when I tested it so I have now matted them all using a green Scotchbrite pad on a snug fitting wooden mandrel chucked in a drill; that works great!

I don't care what others do so I give my suggestions and reasoning but I won't further argue the point. Well, except noting that "common wisdom" says shiny dies are slicker but "common wisdom" is often wrong. Remember when the experts told us everything electrical would crash when Y2K rolled over? And remember how sure Algore and other greenie experts were that the world would burn passed livable in what, two years? or five years? or ten years? Or, today, how we're promised that common drug store paper or fabric dust masks are expected to filter C-19 even tho we know shorts and jeans won't begin to restrain a fart? Etc. I do.

I don't know who promised reloaders that mirror sizer surfaces would hold a film of case lube better and work slicker than matt surfaces but I've learned to disagree. YMMV but I know it's not true in my little shop.

[uscra112]

Carbide pistol dies have a mirror finish. And they don't use lube.

[EDG]

There are a million guys out there that will tell you that bright (jewelry finish quality) brass cases size easier than ordinary finished brass.
The same goes for dies. Even the brightest finished dies size easier because the lube has no problem maintaining a good film under the slow sizing and pressure of resizing brass.
The cross hatch improves performance of piston rings but we are not talking about 60,000 miles either....
5,000 cases sized means you have friction for about 10,000 inches. Hardly enough to wear out the dies.
But 80,000 miles plus the non-miles worth of idling in traffic will easily wear out the cross hatching in a cylinder bore. Even with the cross hatching worn out the engine will still run just fine.






How/why? Seems if a high polish is slicker then we shouldn't even need a lube, just a better polish! Nope.


You know "cross hatch" lubes great for rings and cylinders but don't otherwise reduce friction, right? (Actually, I thought holding lube is all the cross hatch is surface is supposed to do. ??) But you believe micro-hatch (matt finished) sizers won't hold lube better than polished? Well ....

I can easily polish my dies to mirror finish if I wish but I've found they're slicker/easier to use when matt finished! That experiment's result wasn't what I expected but that's what happened when I tested it so I have now matted them all using a green Scotchbrite pad on a snug fitting wooden mandrel chucked in a drill; that works great!

I don't care what others do so I give my suggestions and reasoning but I won't further argue the point. Well, except noting that "common wisdom" says shiny dies are slicker but "common wisdom" is often wrong. Remember when the experts told us everything electrical would crash when Y2K rolled over? And remember how sure Algore and other greenie experts were that the world would burn passed livable in what, two years? or five years? or ten years? Or, today, how we're promised that common drug store paper or fabric dust masks are expected to filter C-19 even tho we know shorts and jeans won't begin to restrain a fart? Etc. I do.

I don't know who promised reloaders that mirror sizer surfaces would hold a film of case lube better and work slicker than matt surfaces but I've learned to disagree. YMMV but I know it's not true in my little shop.

[1hole]

Carbide pistol dies have a mirror finish. And they don't use lube.

The effect you cite isn't due to the shine. Carbide slides easier than steel simply because it has a lower friction coefficient, not because it's shiny. And shiny cases don't do a thing to reduce sizing effort, it takes a high film strength lube to do that and matt surfaces holding a layer of good lube makes things slide easiest.

As a point of interest, commercial ammo makers often use costly solid carbide bottle neck dies to form cases but they also use lube or they'll have cases stuck hard in carbide dies, same as us. I mean, even slick carbide has limits!

Even tho carbide sizers can be used without lube it's not a great idea. Before carbide handgun dies became available we just wiped cases off and resized them with their residual film of smoke and bullet lube; that surface film was enough "lube" for the new dies without further lubing but it didn't eliminate the need for some tiny bit of real lube.

Few - if any - of us had case tumblers back then but when they became available it suddenly became fashionable to "clean" cases until they glittered like jewelry. But, deprived of the old smoked case surfaces to help, we began to have galled dies that scratched the pretty cases. Most folk thought it was due to getting a grain of sand on the carbide and scratching it; nope, it was soft, dry brass galling on the very hard carbide ring due to a total lack of lube!

Bottom line, no amount of shine can prevent galling a carbide die.

[Drm50]

The 35Rem is one of first rifle cartridges I reloaded. My 1st deer rifle was a 35 Rem #8 back in ‘62.
My dies are second hand Lymans from before ‘62. I have loaded 358 cast rifle bullets and cast 357 pistol bullets with these dies and all manner of jacketed. Never had any trouble loading. I still have these dies and have always used them on single stage presses. I would say trouble results from dirty brass or dies. If not that it could be chamber in rifle allowing greater expansion than industry norms. 35 is simple to load and all the extra fancy stuff is okay but shouldn’t be necessary to load decent ammo. I’m just recently down to two 35 rifles, the #8 and a 141. The #8 is a beast and would probably work with 36 ammo if there was such a thing. The 141 is less tolerant to ammo, more so than Marlin 336. I’ve never had problems with any except on both 336 and 141, OAL is critical on both.

[1hole]

There are a million guys out there that will tell you that bright (jewelry finish quality) brass cases size easier than ordinary finished brass.

Yeah, probably. I'm sure there are millions who would also assure me the world is flat! But, they would be wrong too.

Fact is, brass is so soft compared to steel that case shine is effectively meaningless during sizing, especially so for straight wall cases; THAT just ain't gonna happen!


"The same goes for dies... the lube has no problem maintaining a good film under the slow sizing and pressure of resizing brass."

At any speed, a mirrored surface simply does not/cannot hold a lube film as well as a matt surface does.


.... in traffic will easily wear out the cross hatching in a cylinder bore. Even with the cross hatching worn out the engine will still run just fine.

I'm just recognising the lube holding value of a soft matt die wall.

Cross hatching in the cylinders of an internal combustion engine certainly wears away but, as it wears, tiny vertical scoring of the cylinder walls and rings appear and grow to replicate the lube holding effects of the initial cross hatching.

Cylinder walls are not mirror polished simply because shiny surfaces can't possibly hold a good film of lube under pressure very well. Ditto sizing dies. Don't just listen to "millions" of others, or even me; try it for yourself.