This still bugs me...

[bakerjw]

I am new here and getting a feel for the lay of the land. IMHO it is one of the best laid back forums that has any activity that I've seen in a long time. Something happened yesterday that bugged the heck out of me and I had to share it somewhere.

I stopped in a local military surplus store to pick up some .30 cal ammo boxes. Since I'm starting to reload buckshot shotgun shells, I found myself needing more containers. $15.00 each for good ones was in line with market prices and I like to support local places, so I stopped in to get some.

As I approached the counter, there was a pudgy younger guy talking to one of the owners who is also fairly young. Mid 30's? They were discussing the components on a tactical AR and how to dress one up to be like one of the common high end tactical models. The owner handed it to the other guy who was admiring it and came close to sweeping me with the barrel. I am a stickler for barrel discipline. I chided him and said "Hey, keep an eye on the barrel."

He responded "It's unloaded." and turned the rifle to show the ejection port and further explained "And my finger's off the trigger." while looking at me like I was some clueless moron. I shook my head in disbelief and let it drop. I hate using the label but it was a millenial with a tacticool rifle and gear but with little clue about firearm responsibility.

Poor discipline around firearms leads to complacency and that leads to accidents. I have a hole in our well house ceiling that came from complacency. When we screw up, we must learn from our mistakes and I leave it there as a reminder of my own complacency.

Sorry for the semi rant. It just bugged the heck out of me.

[frkelly74]

My daughters boyfriend managed to shoot himself with a gun that was unloaded. He lived though.

[Parson]

I am usually ant-confrontational and at my age could hardly fight my way out of a wet paper bag, but one day walked in the local shop. Some guy is looking and playing with a gun, like you say “sweeps” it across me a couple times, I told him if he did it again I would make him eat it and walked out. I know another guy Who is well capable of executing his threat, told a guy to file off the front sight before he points it at him again. I guy asked why? To which he firmly replied “ so it slides easier when I take it away from you and shove it up up your .....

[farmbif]

gun safety is paramount. people careless with guns is one of the wanna be gun banning leftists favorite rants,

[tinhorn97062]

Having been shot before due to a person’s negligence in the field, I take it pretty seriously when a barrel is pointed in my direction. I don’t think the OP was out of line at all to call the guy out on it.


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[Jsm180]

The more gun owners we have the more we will find that are less than safely trained. The key is to politely show them the safe ways to handle a firearm. Most are clueless but receptive.

Some of the worst offenders are at the large gun shops working behind the counter.

[kaiser]

That is the fault of the owner of the firearm store of hiring people who have no firearm disciple being allowed to handle, show, and sell guns to unknown quantity of customers who vary from the most savvy to the most ignorant. One careless accident could put an owner out of business! If a customer is "shown" a rifle, pistol, or shotgun it should be kept under the control of the seller's clerk or salesman who is trained and responsible for the safety of his store and his customers. I too am rather nervous around strangers with guns, especially "experts" who are authorities on their function who were have been in the armed services at one time. (I've found many of the prior trained military members are impressive with an AR15 type weapon, but any other type of firearm is as foreign in operation to them as compound bow would have been to Pope and Young.) One can disarm one of these "careless" gun handlers with courtesy by retrieving the firearm and explaining they are only to be handled in a particular manner (safely) due to store liability insurance and policies, just like the "armories" they may remember. Most people will comply; those that won't are not customers you want waving guns around in your face. (You could solidify your authority by requesting they put on their "mask" first - LOL!)

[rancher1913]

once during a law enforcement shotgun qual, the instructor (who is also the armorer) kept sweeping the room with his shotgun, made me very uncomfortable because he was a total moron and got the job because he was brown nosing and not because he had any skills. made sure to never take the quals when he was instructing again. as a side note, it was embarrassing to watch the lady officers try and hit the targets with slugs, usually took about 25 tries before they got a passing score, you were supposed to be able to do it with 5 rounds and 5 hits.

[gpidaho]

I've been pelted pretty hard by shotgun pellets (excited young pheasant hunter looking at the flushing bird and not down range) When I offered to pump him back with a load, his Eddy Bower dressed dad walked between us as he escorted the young man to the truck. Hope it was a lesson learned. Watch where you point a gun, loaded or not. Gp

[Battis]

I was in a gun store examining a 1903 Winchester Self Loader .22 the other day and when I worked the bolt back, I saw a shiny brass case in the chamber. I showed it to the salesman - he was pretty new at the store- and he kinda freaked. I told him that it looked spent. He called a manager which was probably the wise thing to do, seeing as he was new. The manager came, told him to get a rod and pushed out the empty, fired case. The manager then explained to me that it was put there when they took it in trade (as opposed to the store missing it completely). OK, probably not the best thing to do, but...
A few years ago, in the same store, I was looking at a muzzle loading shotgun. I dropped the ramrod down each barrel and sure enough, it went further in one than the other. It was loaded with old powder, shot, wad.

[MaryB]

Why I like the local gun store owner. You get 1 warning about sweeping people then are never allowed to touch a gun in the store. He gets a lot of idiot college kids who think it is cool to wave gus aorund like a rapper idiot and it will not fly in his store. He makes allowance for accidental sweeping like someone bumping you from behind. With 14 foot ceilings in the store he put targets up around the top of the walls for people to point at. Keeps muzzles UP and away from others. To make the point he has a couple target arrows sticking in some of them.

[edp2k]

With all dues respect to the OP,
the OP's response to "It's unloaded and my finger's off the trigger." should have been:
"I don't care. You do that again and I guarantee that you will have a very bad day."

You can't let people endangering you, off the hook.

[Geezer in NH]

I am new here and getting a feel for the lay of the land. IMHO it is one of the best laid back forums that has any activity that I've seen in a long time. Something happened yesterday that bugged the heck out of me and I had to share it somewhere.

I stopped in a local military surplus store to pick up some .30 cal ammo boxes. Since I'm starting to reload buckshot shotgun shells, I found myself needing more containers. $15.00 each for good ones was in line with market prices and I like to support local places, so I stopped in to get some.

As I approached the counter, there was a pudgy younger guy talking to one of the owners who is also fairly young. Mid 30's? They were discussing the components on a tactical AR and how to dress one up to be like one of the common high end tactical models. The owner handed it to the other guy who was admiring it and came close to sweeping me with the barrel. I am a stickler for barrel discipline. I chided him and said "Hey, keep an eye on the barrel."

He responded "It's unloaded." and turned the rifle to show the ejection port and further explained "And my finger's off the trigger." while looking at me like I was some clueless moron. I shook my head in disbelief and let it drop. I hate using the label but it was a millenial with a tacticool rifle and gear but with little clue about firearm responsibility.

Poor discipline around firearms leads to complacency and that leads to accidents. I have a hole in our well house ceiling that came from complacency. When we screw up, we must learn from our mistakes and I leave it there as a reminder of my own complacency.

Sorry for the semi rant. It just bugged the heck out of me.

I'd have dropped what I was buying and said Bye.

[bakerjw]

Thanks guys for the sanity check.
Like I stated, it bugged the heck out of me. Such a laissez faire attitude about gun safety.
It is a sign of the times I suppose. Rambo wannabes with all kinds of tacticool with no clue of proper firearm handling.

[Hogtamer]

Congrats on the buckshot loading.

[Hick]

I was helping our setting up for a temporary shooting range at a Boy Scout event, when the man in charge had a Scout help him unload the rifles from his truck. The young Scout asked "Are these loaded?" The man said "Of course they are loaded!" The Scout said "Shouldn't they be unloaded until they are on the firing line?" The man said "Yes-- but almost everyone ever killed in an accidental shooting was killed by a gun someone thought was unloaded. So around here we assume they are loaded!" (actually they were not, of course, but I liked his attitude).

[john.k]

Not recent,but there used to be 22 rimfire auto rifle on the market "Gevarm A 7 ",if memory is correct ,it had no extractor ,and slam fired from an open bolt .....these guns were number one in firearm deaths from UDs.......But ,at the range ,the management tolerate all sorts of bad gun handling by teens and young women (the worst) in favour of money paid for the visit.......The RO tells me the average beginner family on a first visit to the range can spend $300 for the day,whereas old skinflints like me who prepay the year and dont buy targets or ammo ,spend maybe $10 on drinks and a few crisps.

[DocSavage]

Famous last words
I didn't know it was loaded
The check is in the mail
Of course I'll respect you in the morning.

[William Yanda]

I would be bugged too. I probably would have something to say to store management. The clerk should have backed you up!

[1Hawkeye]

My standard answer to idiots like that is ... so was the one that put me in the hospital for a week and 4 months learning how to use my arm again. I have no problems educating sweepers after the road Iv'e been down.

[bedbugbilly]

I don't blame you at all for being upset . . . I have a very low tolerance for those that will do something like that and then make excuses like "it's not loaded" or "my finger is off the trigger".

I went on too many ambulance and fire rescue calls for shootings - many of which were the result of "unloaded guns". Sorry . . . . but idiots of any age who do such things need to be called on their behavior. It never ceases to amaze me how may shootings there are with "un-loaded" guns or how someone can shoot themselves while cleaning an "un-loaded gun". People like that have never had the experience of having to work on a shooting victim . . . or worse yet . . . having to tell the victim's loved ones that their loved one didn't make it. Proper gun safety is not intended for "just loaded guns" - every firearm should be treated as "if it were loaded".

Frankly, I admire your patience . . . . I'm a believer in letting an individual who is acting in an unsafe manner with a firearm have one warning . . . after that . . . if it continues . . . well . . . they should be told how a weapon can be quickly made into a "metallic suppository".

[jsizemore]

Gun shops are there to sell guns and don't want to be confrontational with a potential buyer. It's considered poor salesmanship. Most businesses are only concerned with moving product.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Killing potential buyers tends to cut WAY down on the number of firearms they'll buy, though. Same when people swept by a muzzle tell the store people "OK, you aren't fixing this issue, you lose my business" and leaving.

It's good to be firm, but civil, at first at least, when someone "oopses", but it's YOUR life - Don't put up with being endangered by a moron, one way or another remove yourself from the threat if mentioning that it's unacceptable behavior doesn't get the point across.

[dverna]

I avoid public ranges except for shooting trap or sporting clays.

The second project I did when I moved 7 years ago was build a range so I can stay easy from the idiots.

[TCoggins]

I was at the gun counter at Gander Mountain one day. Someone looking for their first handgun is fondling the pistols. Muzzle sweeps me. I politely told him not to do that. Does it again, and I politely called him out. The third time, when I politely called him out, he got snarky and told me it wasn’t loaded and I’m over reacting. I leaned in, and calmly told him that mine was, in fact loaded, and he will stop sweeping me with the muzzle. He turned white and left.

[Shawlerbrook]

You are absolutely right in your feelings and unfortunately one of the negatives of all these new gun owners is that they lack the fundamentals of safe firearms handling.

[Vdubman27]

Hahaha good advice lol

[Win94ae]

Tell them next time, "That's why the father of modern shooting, crafted 4 firearm safety rules; because only 2 weren't sufficient. Familiarize yourself with basic firearm safety!"

[Win94ae]

I was at the gun counter at Gander Mountain one day. Someone looking for their first handgun is fondling the pistols. Muzzle sweeps me. I politely told him not to do that. Does it again, and I politely called him out. The third time, when I politely called him out, he got snarky and told me it wasn’t loaded and I’m over reacting. I leaned in, and calmly told him that mine was, in fact loaded, and he will stop sweeping me with the muzzle. He turned white and left.

Funny, yes. But the newbies get a break; they get to learn something.
I'd ask to check the weapon myself, since I'm on the receiving end; and as I did, I'd tell them about the 4 rules and why they are important.

[Win94ae]

I was helping our setting up for a temporary shooting range at a Boy Scout event, when the man in charge had a Scout help him unload the rifles from his truck. The young Scout asked "Are these loaded?" The man said "Of course they are loaded!" The Scout said "Shouldn't they be unloaded until they are on the firing line?" The man said "Yes-- but almost everyone ever killed in an accidental shooting was killed by a gun someone thought was unloaded. So around here we assume they are loaded!" (actually they were not, of course, but I liked his attitude).

The exact response everyone should have! Great instructor!