Elevated lead levels in my blood

[FISH4BUGS]

In my annual physical just ended, I had the normal blood work done.
One of the things I make sure they check is lead levels in my blood.
My doc always it was kind of cool that I cast all my own bullets, for I was his only patient (apparently) that did that.
This time my lead levels (which were always normal) came up high. 21 was the number.
He was concerned because it was approaching toxic levels.
I am always very careful. I wear gloves when casting and have an exhaust fan.
I don't smoke or eat while casting/sizing/lubing, and I always wash my hands when I take a break.
The only thing I can think of was that a couple of weeks ago I went shooting and burned up a couple of hundred rounds.
The wind was in my face and the smoke drifted back into me. WW231 is not the cleanest powder on the planet :)
The other thing was last winter, I cast (with gloves and fan) but sized and lubed (on a Star Sizer) some 4000 44 and 38/357 bullets without gloves and reloaded them....but I DID wash my hands when I took a break.
Are there latex gloves made that can hold up to sizing/lubing a few thousand bullets at a time? The ones I use for cleaning guns don't hold up worth beans.
The only other thing I guess is to not shoot when the wind is in your face?
I am really confounded.
Your thoughts and ideas are welcomed.

[Cast_outlaw]

Well I don’t know what caused it it may have been from the primers as they are lead based as for gloves I’d look into the nitrile grease monkey gloves they are quite a bit tougher than latex and should stand up as long as they are not catching on things constantly

[Greg S]

Any indoor range shooting?

[FISH4BUGS]

Any indoor range shooting?

It was outdoors. Our indoor range does not allow cast lead bullets.

[farmbif]

I would look for advice from medical expert who is a shooter and or caster, you may have figured it out yourself, wind in your face. ive often wondered how much lead gets atomized when I'm blasting away with 44 mag and 45 colt when I can clearly see fire blasting out of the end of the gun and there is no gas check.
Did your doctor have any recommendations to bring lead level down?

[JoeG52]

You might want to have your lead level re-tested. Labs do make mistakes on occasion.

[NSB]

I once supervised a very large department where copper/brass radiators were made for OE automotive use. I had thirty-seven tube mills where each mill had a 3600 lb solder pot to coat the brass tubes. The operators had to keep the pot full and that required pretty constant handling of thirty pound ingots to be put in the pot. All the mill operators had to be tested twice a year for blood lead levels. The only time any of them had high levels was when they ran the mill with the pot door open (it was required to be kept closed so the exhaust fan could do its job), or when they smoked or ate without washing their hands. If you’re not smoking while casting, not eating while casting, and keeping your hands clean, your problem is your exhaust. It’s simply not adequate for the job at hand. You need an exhaust duct above your pot, and you need more air flow going outside. If you’re running other fans in the house like fans or AC units, you can create a somewhat negative air flow/pressure which will work against your pot exhaust. My money is on your exhaust fan. Shooting a couple hundred bullets outside on one day will not raise your levels to a caution level.

[BigAlofPa.]

My lead was high when i started getting it tested. Last test it was real good. Im hoping it's better yet since i started using the APP press for decapping.
10/12/18 1/11/19 9/27/19 2/27/20
17.9 H 9.4 11.1 H 4.6

[FISH4BUGS]

Did your doctor have any recommendations to bring lead level down?

Nothing yet. We will do another test in 3 months.
He said to just be careful and wear gloves, which I did except for sizing/lubing.
I'll get some mechanic's gloves as suggested.
Retesting is another good idea. I have a followup test schedule shortly to retest the B12 levels, so I will ask him.
Just called the doc and they will a retest to make sure the level is what they think it is.
Then I guess we will have to do something about it!

[mattw]

I have been using Microflex Diamond Grip gloves, they hold up very well! I used them when sorting fresh cast, my daughter uses them when doing PC. Once PC is applied, I am not overly concerned about lead. If using normal lube, I use them through the lube process. They hold up very well, when I remove them I do so with them inside out and reuse them several times by reversing them before the next wearing.

[kaiser]

It sounds like you have a very reasonable and competent doctor, which is probably as important as the test you took. I used to work at an indoor pistol range and toxic lead levels can be a big problem if you ignore the safety precautions. Had a co-worker who tested high and his wife hit the "panic button" (they did come back down after he quit). My sister-in-law has had the treatments for lead poison to see if it would cure another disease she had - it didn't. Her description of the "scrubbing process" was not anything I would want to be subjected to. The treatment, as I understand it (not being a doctor), is usually only done in extreme cases. Staying out of the environment for a few months usually lowers the levels into the "comfort zone". Stay healthy!

[Neverhome]

I'm admittedly pretty ignorant. Dumb as a stump for the most part.
But in what way do gloves help? Lead doesn't absorb through the skin does it? I thought the the biggest risks were ingestion and inhalation. Not so?
Seems to me that if you are religiously washing your hands prior to putting anything in your mouth that the only thing left is inhalation. Seems like, as mentioned, ventilation improvement might be key here. Of course I might be missing something...

[Neverhome]

I got real curious because my biggest exposure to lead was long term living on ships with uncoated lead ballast.

I just pulled this from the OSHA website...

Lead can be absorbed into your body by inhalation (breathing) and ingestion (eating). Lead (except for certain organic lead compounds not covered by the standard, such as tetraethyl lead) is not absorbed through your skin. When lead is scattered in the air as a dust, fume or mist it can be inhaled and absorbed through you lungs and upper respiratory tract. Inhalation of airborne lead is generally the most important source of occupational lead absorption. You can also absorb lead through your digestive system if lead gets into your mouth and is swallowed. If you handle food, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, or make-up which have lead on them or handle them with hands contaminated with lead, this will contribute to ingestion.

and...

Once your blood lead level climbs above 40 ug/100g, your risk of disease increases. There is a wide variability of individual response to lead, thus it is difficult to say that a particular PbB in a given person will cause a particular effect. Studies have associated fatal encephalopathy with PbBs as low as 150 ug/100g. Other studies have shown other forms of diseases in some workers with PbBs well below 80 ug/100g. Your PbB is a crucial indicator of the risks to your health, but one other factor is also extremely important. This factor is the length of time you have had elevated PbBs. The longer you have an elevated PbB, the greater the risk that large quantities of lead are being gradually stored in your organs and tissues (body burden). The greater your overall body burden, the greater the chances of substantial permanent damage.

I don't even know if I've been tested for it. The military is funny that way!

[quilbilly]

You might want to have your lead level re-tested. Labs do make mistakes on occasion.
I definitely agree with this but when you do a retest, make sure you haven't handled lead boolits or done any shooting for about a week to ten days. If you are in an older house or have changed water supplies, check piping for lead pipes which could be suddenly leaching lead. If the test wasn't a false positive, the next step is isolating the source.

[mattw]

It keeps the lead out from under things like fingernails and out of cuts, my hands are always in rough shape. Also allows me to remove them and get a fresh chew from time to time, no running water in my shop. Also keeps skin oils off of the virgin cast bullets for a better PC coat.

[Neverhome]

Oh good points. Yeah. Also now that I think about it, I'm MUCH less likely to touch my face or forget to wash up if I have gloves on.
And while MY skin isn't that thin yet, I know my grandfather could cut himself walking down the hall.

[mattw]

Mine is not thin... just abused! :) I tend to snag calluses on things and tear them from time to time and seems that I am always working on something sharp and greasy. Where I fail often around lead is case cleaning... I still dry tumble and always will, that dust gets everywhere. I should move the tumblers out to the main shop, many more cubic feet of air and not insulated.

[gwpercle]

You might want to have your lead level re-tested. Labs do make mistakes on occasion.

This ... I've had more False Positive test results than you can shake a stick at . Wait a few months and retake it ....great chance you will be fine ...labs screw up tests a lot more than should be allowed !

In fact a test just last week ... retook it and Dr.'s office called yesterday ...Normal , never mind lab screwed up ...again.
Gary

[dannyd]

I got real curious because my biggest exposure to lead was long term living on ships with uncoated lead ballast.

I just pulled this from the OSHA website...

Lead can be absorbed into your body by inhalation (breathing) and ingestion (eating). Lead (except for certain organic lead compounds not covered by the standard, such as tetraethyl lead) is not absorbed through your skin. When lead is scattered in the air as a dust, fume or mist it can be inhaled and absorbed through you lungs and upper respiratory tract. Inhalation of airborne lead is generally the most important source of occupational lead absorption. You can also absorb lead through your digestive system if lead gets into your mouth and is swallowed. If you handle food, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, or make-up which have lead on them or handle them with hands contaminated with lead, this will contribute to ingestion.

and...

Once your blood lead level climbs above 40 ug/100g, your risk of disease increases. There is a wide variability of individual response to lead, thus it is difficult to say that a particular PbB in a given person will cause a particular effect. Studies have associated fatal encephalopathy with PbBs as low as 150 ug/100g. Other studies have shown other forms of diseases in some workers with PbBs well below 80 ug/100g. Your PbB is a crucial indicator of the risks to your health, but one other factor is also extremely important. This factor is the length of time you have had elevated PbBs. The longer you have an elevated PbB, the greater the risk that large quantities of lead are being gradually stored in your organs and tissues (body burden). The greater your overall body burden, the greater the chances of substantial permanent damage.

I don't even know if I've been tested for it. The military is funny that way!


Navy didn't test between 75 and 95 when I asked why Because they didn't want to know.

[tomme boy]

If you use a dry tumbler that is usually the cause. You have to add some mineral spirits each time to get the levels down.

[Neverhome]

Mine is not thin... just abused! :) I tend to snag calluses on things and tear them from time to time and seems that I am always working on something sharp and greasy.

No offense meant! I'm in the same boat regarding callouses. I do alot of weight lifting and I have to dremel down my callouses to keep from tearing them.
But it goes to show that everyone has a different situation and possible PPE needs.

[Conditor22]

decapping primers, smelting, and vibratory brass cleaning are the 3 most overlooked hazards in reloading.

decapping primers: wet cases before recapping and use a lee universal recapping die

smelting use a large fan to draw all the smoke away from you, wear a n95 or charcoal filtered mask (I'd say stay upwind but every time I tried to rely on that the wind kept changing.

vibratory brass cleaning: gloves, using drier sheets and NuFinnish helps keep the dust down, do the vibratory cleaning outdoors, wear a mask when you empty the tumbler and separate out the media -- or -- switch to wet tumbling

For the people that work in the lead industry, 45 is the max acceptable contamination amount.

MD's want us all down below 5

[Neverhome]

Navy didn't test between 75 and 95 when I asked why Because they didn't want to know.

CG STILL doesn't want to know. Last ship I was on, every month the HS would take cotton swabs to all the spaces known to contain lead. This was recently. Any space that tested over a certain threshold got washed into the bilge and then shop vacced. This was all coated lead by this point but levels still got above whatever the threshold was.
The CG need NEVER know that I reload or cast bullets but there's plenty of record that I served on ships full of lead.

[CastingFool]

I was tested a few years back, and my lead level was very high. I don't think it was necessarily due to casting, but rather from all the demo work I have done in my house in the last 23 years. House was built in the 60's, so very likely they used lead paint back then. Underwent chelation treatment for a couple of years, and last time, the lead level was liw enough that my doctor said he was good with the result. When I cast, I cast outdoors, and certainly not as often as I would like

[GOPHER SLAYER]

As I have said in the pages before, I worked for the phone company over 35 years. 25 of those years were spent using soldering irons to secure wire connections. I spent years bent over a small wiring frame used to wire switchboard jacks. Cable men were even more exposed. They would sit on a box down in those small rooms built under the sidewalk with a lead melting pot all day. They would cover the cable connections with a lead sleeve and solder each end after they were checked for continuity. All the men and women who worked the mainframe and line frame in the central office were soldering all day long, day after day. I have not heard of any of those people falling over dead from lead poisoning. I have been casting and reloading since 1959. I will be 86 in October and feel pretty good, considering. I don't wear gloves while reloading and I don't see how you could. It's hard enough picking up dropped primers bare handed.

[mattw]

Neverhome... not sure why you would think that you offended me... just told you, I do not have soft skin! :) :) Dremel on calluses... had not thought of that. The worst are on the ridges of my palms and a couple of finger tips.

[bedbugbilly]

What about your diet? Anything new that you are eating more of? More fish? Anything different as to where you are getting drinking water - such as working in different area, etc.? Any new medications that might throw count off? I know you are looking at obvious but that might not be the culprit - and as mentioned - labs do make mistakes so I would think a re-take of the blood test would not be out of line.

[dangitgriff]

Blood lead level of 45, I’ll keep that in mind. I plan on getting some blood work done soon and I’ve had lead fragments from a .22LR bullet in my forearm and palm since 1986 or thereabouts.

[FISH4BUGS]

Blood lead level of 45, I’ll keep that in mind. I plan on getting some blood work done soon and I’ve had lead fragments from a .22LR bullet in my forearm and palm since 1986 or thereabouts.
As an aside, I have had a 22 bullet in my leg for 50+ years. There is no way for the body to break it down so I wouldn't be concerned.

[FISH4BUGS]

What about your diet? Anything new that you are eating more of? More fish? Anything different as to where you are getting drinking water - such as working in different area, etc.? Any new medications that might throw count off? I know you are looking at obvious but that might not be the culprit - and as mentioned - labs do make mistakes so I would think a re-take of the blood test would not be out of line.

Interesting observations. Water is the same. 880 feet down. New meds? Yes.....Nexium. New foods? Bought 25 lbs of burger from my friend's organic farm. That's the only different thing.
I called the doc for a retest, but he said to wait 3 months then let's see where it is at then.
It's not enough to really hurt me immediately but enough to be concerned about.

[ascast]

I am not sure what your test tested. I had my levels checked about 2 years ago. Doc said they were just the same as everbody else, absolutely normal. I mention this because I really don't believe you get lead poisoning from causal handling. To that point, I lick blocks of lead to prove the point, used to smoke while casting, open windows when hot and handle bullets all day long and have for many many years with no gloves. You just don't get lead poisoning that way. I NEVER handle old white bullets, I never shoot indoors, I don't handle the skimmings from the melt.
enjoy

[pcolapaddler]

Harbor freight has nitrile gloves up to 9 mils thick. They are pretty durable. When I remember to wear them that is...

Here is a cdc doc on reducing lead levels in blood.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/tools/5things.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjHxL2OrdPqAhVSSK0KHWHgBFoQFjABegQIDBAG&usg=AOvVaw0BaFpUeuizBx1M_8hZ2okr

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

[Wayne Smith]

You shoot full auto, don't you? Just how many rounds did you run through with the wind in your face? Lead stephanite in the primers is one of the more likely causes.

[Screwbolts]

I have always wondered if the test is specific for lead or just heavy metals in the Blood. One of the main sources of heavy metal Aluminum in our blood is from the Deodorant/Antiperspirant that many still use. My family switched to one of the few, Aluminum Free, deodorants some time ago.

Is it lead or is it heavy metal in the blood?

[FISH4BUGS]

You shoot full auto, don't you? Just how many rounds did you run through with the wind in your face? Lead stephanite in the primers is one of the more likely causes.

I do, but that particular day I was at a range where semi auto only was the rule. I did mostly revolvers.
I will pay attention to the wind direction next visit to the range and will undergo a test in 3 months to see how it goes.

[FISH4BUGS]

Is it lead or is it heavy metal in the blood?

The doc said specifically lead.
I always ask for a lead screening on every annual physical in addition to the regular stuff.

[GregLaROCHE]

It’s important to keep track of your lead levels. Mine spiked very high one when I did something I shouldn’t have. A month later they were way down and six months later, the same as someone who normally works with lead. A high spike for a short time isn’t as bad as a prolonged exposure that lets the lead get into your bones.

Know that lead is an unhealthy substance and do everything you can to reduce your exposure to it. However, with normal precautions, we should all be able to work safely with it. Keep getting tested and don’t do anything foolish like I once did.

[john.k]

Onetime I salvaged tons of steel bridgerails from a site I was driving a crane on.....They were just going to landfill .....sold tons of them to a guy making semi truck car carrying trailers.The paint on them was like 20 layers,1/8" thick......anyway ,they had to sandblast them to weld ,and as you might guess ,the paint was all red lead...I used some for projects ,and burnt the paint off with the cutting torch where welds were placed .....I got lead in the system from the fumes from burning off the paint.

[Geezer in NH]

Interesting observations. Water is the same. 880 feet down. New meds? Yes.....Nexium. New foods? Bought 25 lbs of burger from my friend's organic farm. That's the only different thing.
I called the doc for a retest, but he said to wait 3 months then let's see where it is at then.
It's not enough to really hurt me immediately but enough to be concerned about.Get another DR. Tell yours why. Have your own order another test. You pay him or your insurance pays him, but he is dropping the ball here .

No Way would my DR. stand on an idea like yours. Get it tested again Pay for it if you have to.

[square butte]

House painting will get your numbers up too if an older home with lead paint - It's the prep work - scraping and sanding

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Drink plenty of OJ.

[RayinNH]

It was outdoors. Our indoor range does not allow cast lead bullets.

It does if they are powder coated or at least they did. Ask again.

[FISH4BUGS]

It does if they are powder coated or at least they did. Ask again.

You are correct. PC is OK, cast lead is not. That's the reason I am not part of the indoor range.

[Rich/WIS]

Your body will naturally cleanse itself of lead, don't remember exactly the time frame but IIRC you will naturally eliminate about 50% every month.

[skeettx]

Good reading below

Whole-body lead elimination over the short term removes about 50–60% of the newly absorbed lead,
with a half-life in adult volunteers of about 20 days
(Rabinowitz et al., 1976; Chamberlain et al., 1978).

Of the deposited fraction, 50% (i.e., 25% of lead initially absorbed) is eventually eliminated.

https://www.nap.edu/read/2232/chapter/6#150

[FISH4BUGS]

OK....just took another blood test.
They had some concerns about low B12, but I asked for another lead check just to make sure.
If it comes back still high (not an error) I will set up an organic program to detox the lead.
I THINK it may well have come from handling 2000+ cast bullets while sizing on the Star (although i wash my hands at every break and don't smoke or eat while casting/sizing), or more to the point, the squirrel cage used to separate the media from the brass.
I do NOT use a mask then....it may well be the lead in the dust from the media.
At any rate, there is another follow up in 3 months so let's see what it looks like.

[John Guedry]

I studied plumbing in "trade school" in high school (1960-61) plenty of lead. Our instructor stressed drinking lots of milk. Don't know if it helps but have always tested ok on tests.

[Plate plinker]

I do, but that particular day I was at a range where semi auto only was the rule. I did mostly revolvers.
I will pay attention to the wind direction next visit to the range and will undergo a test in 3 months to see how it goes.


If you watch Jerry Miculek he has a big fan blowing the smoke away while he trains if possible. A great idea if one shoots higher round counts.

[Harter66]

I tested high once , 14 , 1 previous test at 11 and 4 post tests tapered down to 9 . The the only possible answer was a work exposure to a considerable quantity of oxidized 1954-58' galvanized and lead base painted stuffs . Oddly during the decline I was actually shooting , casting , and loading more than before the high test .

Chelation is the term , it basically means the consumption of huge volumes of vitamin C to leech out the heavy metals . One must be careful with it however because it can draw out bone stowed material and actually make a mild overdose a catastrophic disaster by pulling a huge quantity out all at once . Someplace here there is a thread with a couple of pharmacists and an LPN with study links .

Ultimately like anything else a test result only shows a high/low/normal and without a baseline for you it only means that it's H/L/N according to an average textbook number .

[FISH4BUGS]

Well the follow up test is done.
Low B12. That's easy. The doc offered shots or dietary supplements.
Being the organic kind of guy that I am I chose dietary supplements.
The lead tested again at 21.
While it isn't considered serious, it is enough of a concern to my doc that we will do it again in 3 months and monitor it.
In the meantime, I guess I will just have to be extra careful and do the squirrel cage media separator outside, wear a mask (jeez...isn't THAT something?) when casting, wash my hands a lot (like I already do), wear gloves when sizing/lubing, don't touch my face when working with reloading, and just be very careful.
Sounds like the Corona Virus BS all over again.
We will see.... :)

[tankgunner59]

I haven't been tested but I only cast outside with a breeze blowing and a small fan blowing the same direction as the wind. I don't cast often like some others do, maybe once a month average in the warm months.

[FISH4BUGS]

I haven't been tested but I only cast outside with a breeze blowing and a small fan blowing the same direction as the wind. I don't cast often like some others do, maybe once a month average in the warm months.

My method is to have wintertime marathon casting sessions with 4-6-8 or 10 cavity moulds.
I am not exaggerating when I say it is typical to cast 1500-2000 bullets over a number of sessions.
The converted horse stall is pretty tight (barn boards must have SOME R value, right?) so it can be heated in the wintertime with a propane hurricane heater. I also had an exhaust fan put in when I did the conversion.
Casting 9mm is the highest quantity, with 38/357 2nd (double the amount - plain based and gas checked), 44 is third - just cast.
Then I size/lube and reload everything I cast in each caliber for the coming year....or as I estimate it to be. Then I can shoot all spring summer and fall and not have to worry about ammo supply.
I think the prolonged exposure to the casting (2 or 3 hours per session, 3-4 sessions per caliber), along with the case prep tumbling the brass then using a squirrel cage tumbler to remove the media exposes me to more and more lead....no matter how careful I am.
Pay attention boys and girls - lead can be anywhere and everywhere. You need to pay attention and get tested regularly at your annual physical.
I hope in 3 months the count is cut in half.
I'll let you know.

[Huskerguy]

Interesting info. I had my physical in May and I asked for a lead test. The Dr approved and at the visit he asked why I wanted it.

I told him I reloaded, melted lead, made my own bullets, shot in an indoor range and work on two rental houses that had lead in the painted areas I sanded.

Don't remember the exact number, it was slightly elevated, like 9 or 10 and he said they don't get concerned about that but it was higher than normal. He said at 20? they have to tell the county health department in case something is more wide spread.

He said there really isn't anything to do, it will go down over time by itself.

I have had two different lung diseases and try to be careful. I wear a dust mask pretty religiously when doing anything especially cleaning out my vibratory cleaner. I would love to go to a washing only unit. I wear gloves but they do tear and I don't always change them when they break. I don't eat or drink and never did smoke. I wash my hands all of time. I do shoot in an indoor range and this spring I melted probably 1,000 lbs of lead. The worst was the range scrap. I do wear a mask when melting and even when pouring along with using at least one fan.

I am one to believe you didn't get the contination from shooting and the wind. I also would want to look at your vibratory cleaner. I put a paper shop rag over the spindle along with liquid wax and it keeps the dust down but my lungs will tell you that stuff is nasty.

[farmbif]

I use a 12"x18 wire mesh tray and big plastic tub as media separator, no dust. put the tray in bottom of tub pour in contents of tumbler and lift with a couple shakes media stays in bottom of tub.

[tankgunner59]

AS far as my case cleaning goes, I always run every batch through a solution of hot water, a squirt of Dawn dish soap and about 1/8 teaspoon of Lemishine in a HF rock tumbler for 30 minutes. After they air dry I dry tumble in walnut shell media with a cap full of mineral spirits and a cap full of Nufinish car wax in a covered tumbler. I also cut used dryer sheetsinto 3 pieces and put them in the walnut shell media, they collect the dust in the tumbler.

[Geezer in NH]

along with the case prep tumbling the brass then using a squirrel cage tumbler to remove the media exposes me to more and more lead....no matter how careful I am..

I bet it is the dry tumbling and the dust it causes. Switch to wet tumble = no lead loaded dust from the primers left in the cases. I did and the sweet taste left in my mouth was gone from when I tumbled dry. My last test was a 3.