Several hundred pounds of mixed bars. How to cast consistently?

[Naphtali]

I have several hundred pounds of one-pound bars as well as about 12 pounds of tin pellets. Bars had been separated by content, from Lyman #2 to pure lead with other mixes — all of which had been labeled on original containers. When the bars were repacked into five-gallon storage containers, bars were packed randomly.

Since casting bullets by alloy or mix is not possible with my lead, what are my acceptable options? Casting by hardness? Don't worry about it because 420-grain 45-70 gas checked bullets at 1800 fps won't care, and neither will 300-grain gas checked 454 Casull at 1500 fps? . . . Or what?

[John McCorkle]

Pure should be pretty easy to ID right off the bat. Those are dead soft and I can almost feel the difference between two ingots one of pure and one of let's say coww

It may take a while....but see if you can sort by hardness of your bars in piles....then if you get say 50 ish or so, out a cheap pot on a turkey cooker and melt it all together...mark the bar itself and use that to cast with for your 45/70 or whatever you don't care about alloy blend in much

You should be able to get a pretty general idea of what the alloy is by grading hardness....it won't be exact or verifiable but it can be a good general idea. Mark the bars....get a stamp letter set and mark them while they are still warm out of the mold

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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Many times, you can "see" a difference in batches of ingots, especially if they have aged.
once you have them sorted into batches, I assume you knew what the alloys were before they were dumped into 5 gallon buckets.
I'd test the hardness of each batch and match that to what you had.

[USSR]

When the bars were repacked into five-gallon storage containers, bars were packed randomly.

So, who's the dummy that did this?;)

Don

[Ateam]

I would say alloy them all together and assume you have a harden-able tin rich general purpose alloy.

[dverna]

I would say alloy them all together and assume you have a harden-able tin rich general purpose alloy.

That is what I would do, but I am not running anything over 1500 FPS.

[John Boy]

I had 1700 lbs of 1 lb muffin tin ingots of various marked alloys. Melted like kinds into 6 lb ingots and marked each batch ingot with Bhn with a magic marker. Took me 3 days to do this but they are stacked by like kind alloys.
Morale ... A Magic Marker is a Casters Best Friend

Naphtali ... Your best approach is to spend the time with a hardness tester - determine Bhn and mark each with a Magic Marker

[quilbilly]

Since they are all 1# bars, you are ahead of the game. Start by scanning by eye them all to see if any have a blue color tint. Those are very likely close to pure. Drop a "blue" one on concrete and listen to the sound then drop the others and listen for the same or similar sound as the pure. You have just separated the hard alloys from the pure soft. Usually the higher pitch of the sound from the dropped bar, the harder the alloy is. As John said above, a magic marker is your friend. Hopefully you aren't color blind to blue tints.

[kevin c]

Like Ateam and dverna suggested, if you're willing to spent the time and propane, you can be sure of what you have by melting it all together and getting it tested, as opposed to having to rely on your best guess for every single one of those hundreds of 1# bars. I'd keep the tin separate.

Very few people have pots that can do several hundred pounds at a go, but there's a way around that. Use the original ingots to make up several new, one pot batches, each of equal total weight, and each batch made up of the same number of equal weight bars. Keep each batch separate for now. Then, starting from an empty pot, melt together one bar from each batch (or two or more of each, if your pot can hold them) and make new ingots. As the pot empties, refill as needed with one bar from each batch each time. All the newly cast ingots will be the same in content.

While many folks will label a container of alloy, your experience show the advantage of individual identification by marking each ingot or using distinctive shapes. Letter and number stamps work for me.

[fredj338]

You can get a bhn tester like the cabin tree & check them all & remark them. I keep my diff alloy in diff ingots, so I know what I always have. Pure lead in Lyman 1#, range scrap in 2# square molds & clip ww in 2# rect molds. Lino is kept in original; form & tin in what ever form I buy that in. Then I blend in the pot at what ever ratio I want.

[reddog81]

Separating into piles shouldn’t be too hard using visual and sound clues. Drop a pure ingot on concrete and it’ll thud. Drop Lyman #2 onto concrete and it’ll be noticeably higher pitched.

You’ll be better off in the long run if you can separate the various alloys. I don’t use the same alloys for .38 Special as I do .30-06. Even if you can get 3 piles - soft, medium, and hard alloys it’ll be worth the time and much quicker than remelting it all down.

[mdi]

That is what I would do, but I am not running anything over 1500 FPS.

My first thought was the same. I have a lot of my "Mystery Metal" composed of scrap, range lead and several pounds of ???. I checked my BHN with a Lee tester and it comes out to 12-13 and works great in all my handguns (9mm, 38 Spec., 357 Mag., 44 Mag/Spec., 45 ACP and 45 Colt). Loads from 700 fps up to 1200+ fps. I have some 18 BHN I use for my rifle bullets, but ain't been doing much of that. If I'm casting some "Special" bullets I'll use a known alloy, most often 16-1 or Lyman #2, but as time goes on that becomes rare as my Mystery Metal works just fine...

[JM7.7x58]

I log all my ingot batches on a piece of poster board above where I store my lead. It has a description of what the lead was to begin with, examples: range scrap, sail boat keel, Linotype, COWW, downrigger balls, and plumbing lead. I also cast a few bullets from each batch that I smelt, and test for hardness. The hardness gets listed on the poster board also. I stamp symbols on all my lead ingots. I use things like Philip’s screwdrivers, T20 torx bits, screws, rifle brass, bent coat hangers, basically any thing that leaves a unique imprint when struck with a hammer will work. It is basically like branding cattle.

Now If I loose my poster board ledger I will have a problem.

If I had you problem, I would get some artist pencils and do some scratching. I would also do some ringing, and get an idea of how they sound. You should be able to make a soft, medium, and hard pile. Either use these groups as is, or you could smelt up each group, so three uniform batches.

JM

[Minerat]

Now If I loose my poster board ledger I will have a problem.

Take a picture with your cell phone and save to your computer. My cell is my bigest rememberer. :drinks:

[jimb16]

Next time scratch the composition onto the ingots with an awl. No mistakes. you can mix them and still know which is which.

[lightman]

This would be a good argument for stamping ingots with a metal stamp. Something that I just started doing after a lifetime of only marking the container.

[mdi]

Along with my Mystery Metal I do mark the ingots. I often use a 1/2" cold chisel; WW for wheel weight, R for range scrap, etc.. Those unmarked are my general casting alloy. Unknown scrap, or ?? alloy goes into a 5 gal bucket for "smelting" and BHN testing. I guess after 35 years of casting I have worked out most of the problems and for everyday shooting, my Mystery Metal works quite well...

[Naphtali]

I feared this query would obtain pablum replies rather than problem solving. I was wrong. With information received I'm confident I can deal with my friend's error. Many

Two less competent people are responsible for the mini disaster. I, for asking for the back porch to be cleared that the deck can be refinished, and my friend who got several of her friends to assist in getting the job done while I had #3 spinal surgery. I was done in two days and back home — and so were they.

[USSR]

Hope the surgery went well, Naphtali.

Don

[Naphtali]

Hope the surgery went well, Naphtali.

DonDon:

Many thanks for your well wishes. The answer is: surgery — all surgeries — have been successful, but not enough unrepaired bones left. Superman must renounce his superpower status.

[bangerjim]

I stamp all my ingots with a 1 or 2 letter code using steel stamps. Just select your letters, wrap tape around them and you have a nice letter punch you can label with using only one good whack with 3-4# hammer.

They are permanently ID'd. No magic markers fading or lost clipboards. Takes no longer than writing on the ingots with a marker.

I use :
P = pure
CW = COWWs
H = hard alloy I have tons of
R = range lead

etc....etc....etc.....

saves time and confusion a few years down the road when you end up with 2T or more of Pb!

banger

[jdgabbard]

Like mentioned above, you usually can pick up visual clues as to the content of the lead. COWW will be more silvery and possibly shiny if the ingot mold was fairly cold at poor. 99% PB and Range scrap (Antimony Lead) tend to, in my experience, turn color with a bluish hue. But the range scrap will be harder, say around 10-12 BHN.

So in a situation like that I would probably sort first by color, then test by hardness. That should help you sort out your COWW from #2 or Lino, and your Pure from Range/Antimony Lead. You may even get to a point that you can visually tell the difference between these alloys.

But whatever the case, it might benefit you to re-smelt the segmented ingots to thoroughly mix them. As said, consistency is what you’re looking for. Larger batches are more consistent.

One of these days I’m going to invest in a Dutch Oven and a Turkey Fryer. But for now a camp stove and a smallish cast iron skillet serve my needs. I was able to smelt 55lbs of ingots from COWW last night in about 2 hours. However my 12lbs batches might not be the most consistent. But considering they’re all COWW (or stick on when I do a batch of those) I’m not too concerned about the content differences.


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[Conditor22]

the cheapest/quickest way to test the lead is with pencils
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?378866-Lead-hardness-pencil-testing-trick

Visual inspection works if they are of similar age but will still help narrow down like kinds

you could drop them on concrete and sort by sound (you can get pretty close if you drop them the same way)

a lot of my lead is labeled by hardness {BHN} (except COWW, SOWW, LINOTYPE, MONOTYPE)

I smelt mystery lead into ingots, pile them up them wait several weeks, test their hardness, and label them.

I do a lot of my casting by different hardnesses for various loads and guns.