.510 wildcat, big boolits real quietly.

[TOWS220]

This is the project that brought me to this website, mainly because I expect to be shooting a good deal of cast in this gun, even though I will shoot some other stuff in it as well.

The idea is a straight walled .510 cartridge that headspaces off the case mouth. I will load mostly 50 bmg projectiles in it and from what I've seen there are quite a few molds ranging from heavy to insanely heavy that will be interesting in this thing.

The parent case is a 7mm blaser magnum, I know this is a strange choice but I have found cheap norma brass and I figure if I make a few hundred cases I will never shoot them all out.

The suppressor for this gun will be a bowers vers 50, which is currently just waiting for the alphabet boys to finish processing. The action is a savage110 and I got an oryx stock bc it is the cheapest chassis style I could find and I'd like something I can just drop the action in and be done with.

Right now I am in the process of making my dummy rounds up so I can get all the specs for the reamer and get it ordered. Then it will be the search for a suitable barrel blank as far as twist rate is concerned.

I'm thinking I will come up with a "light" cast bullet for it, just not sure what molds exactly. I feel like even subsonic the heavy stuff will wear on you after a few rounds.

[MOA]

Why is it you are wanting to head space off the case mouth?

[BK7saum]

Because it will be a straight wall case with no shoulder and no rim.

[BK7saum]

When you are ready to try some boolits, give me a holler. I have the 475 GC MP mold and 525 PB MP molds, the 513-580 Spitzer Noe PB/GC mold and the 513-588 Noe plain base mold. So.....what's your pleasure? I can send you some samples of whatever you'd like to try.

Brad

[BK7saum]

I have a 50 razorback with a 26" barrel 0.950 at the muzzle. Even the 475 GC at 2050 fps is a hard push. The 525 at slower subsonic velocities is a very gentle push. I haven't weighed the rifle, probably in the 12 lb range. Recoil isn't bad at all.

API will run about 1800fps and flash on hard targets too. I just havent played much yet. Still dragging my feet on a form 1 suppressor.

[Jedman]

I have several 50-70 single shots and really like the cartridge. A couple of years ago a friend gave me a bag of Win. 270 WSM brass and I noticed I could cut them down and make a rimless 50-70 with them. I never did anything with them but it does look like a good match.
I don’t know what 7mm Blaser magnum looks like but it’s probably similar.

Jedman

[MT Chambers]

Trajectory must be awful with those.

[M.A.D]

I have a 500 Whisper and a 50 Alaskin , Both with 13 inch barrels.... The projectiles are 900 grain cast.... They are like 12 gauge , So i wouldnt worry about recoil... But hella fun to shoot...... I use a CBE mold... Barrel twist is 1-9 . And has the ballistic coefficient of a brick...

[McFred]

Here's my version. .510 WSM. It's similar to the .50 Razorback, just shorter cases (1.700").

I had Accurate Mold cut me a 700gr tumble lube for "plinkers" which work well from a magazine. I have to single-feed BMG M8 APIs given their length and my use of a short action.

https://s32.postimg.cc/gt24s2v3p/DSCN2943s.jpg

As mentioned above, even subsonic, they have a good amount of recoil in a light rifle.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
One of our best decisions was build a 50 Alaskan. From round ball up to a 525 FN we have the best of fun wanging steel and watching other shooters marvel at what a 500 grainer chugging along at 1700 fps will do to 50# steel plate. Then we let a 525 go at 1850 !!

[TOWS220]

Thanks so much for the replies, looks like I am going to have a bunch of knowledge to draw from! And the offer of some test boolits is pretty dang nice too! I guess the internet was wrong about you lead melters!:wink:

What brand and twist rate barrels is everyone using?

[DougGuy]

Sheesh! A .510 caliber shoulder cannon! I guess the deer are wearing armor plate these days, being you can't kill one with less than a 400gr super magnum round moving at mach II (according to the internet) so something had to be done right? :kidding:

[McFred]

What brand and twist rate barrels is everyone using?

I used a .510" groove, 15 twist Lilja. No complaints. I don't think I'll wear it out.

[BK7saum]

Mine is built on a pacnor 1-14 twist.

[biffj]

I've been shooting a 510 whisper for years and have run it both sub and supersonic. It does not headspace off the mouth but off a tiny shoulder made by neck turning the 338 lapua mag cases after shortening and trimming. It works very well. You might consider turning a shoulder on your wildcat. You don't want your neck thickness to be too much and by thinning it to what most cartridges use you get a shoulder to headspace on and your case mouth becomes less critical. Most cases have a neck that is .010-.015" thick.

In the whisper running 300gr Barnes soft flat points you can get up to about 2300 fps and running the 800gr Lehigh brass expanding solids 1050fps is pretty accurate. I ran quite a few 500gr cast gas checked bullets a friend made up for me and they worked well too. In addition you've got the whole range of military BMG bullets so tracers, which will indeed light with only 28grs of AA1680, API which will flash if you hit a hard target like rock or steel, APIT and so on.

Set up your case length to make the capacity such that your case fill is high with your intended bullet. Your accuracy will be better. In cases where your fill ratio is under 60-80% your powder can move around enough that you will never get consistent burns and your accuracy will suffer. Some guys want to have it all and make the case so long that its not much good for the subsonics.

You need to make sure your twist rate is set up for the slowest and longest bullet you intend to use. Stabilizing a long spitzer boat tail will be difficult using a twist rate that works for a round nose or a flat nose wadcutter of the same weight. Since we're not shooting artillery shells and worrying about the fuzes hitting square a twist rate that is too fast is much better than one that is too slow. I make a lot of suppressors and do repairs on them and the most common problem I've seen is bullet strikes from guys trying to run subsonics in their big rifle cartridges. Wobbly and tumbling bullets can do some damage to a suppressor. This is usually due to them running a bullet that is too long for the twist rate they have. A 308 with 1-10 twist won't stabilize 220gr pointed bullets at subsonic speed. The rpm of the bullet is based on velocity and rate of twist. In the whisper all the barrels I've built have used a 1-9 twist or faster. You'll want something similar if you're running pointed bullets of 600+ grains in weight. Unfortunately Pac Nor burned down a year or so ago and they were the source for button rifled 510 barrels with that rate. The cut rifling guys like Bartlein or K&P might have something but wait times seem longer for them. Most of the others who make 510 bores don't do the twist rates needed for subsonics....

Hope something helps, keep us posted. on progress.

Frank

[Scrounge]

Sheesh! A .510 caliber shoulder cannon! I guess the deer are wearing armor plate these days, being you can't kill one with less than a 400gr super magnum round moving at mach II (according to the internet) so something had to be done right? :kidding:

Man, them evil white tails need 1200grain boolits moving at mach 3! That way you don't have to clean them. They just disintegrate!

I probably should not have looked at this thread. I am not one of the little fast bullet guys. Not really a big slow bullet guy. I want big FAST bullets. But I think big fast boolits would work, too. Just want something cheaper than .50BMG.

[TOWS220]

Current work updates, getting my cases initially cut and then I plan on cleaning them up with a case trimmer.

I just got my 3d printer back operational and so I made up a little sled to hold my cases for the mini chop saw.

Once I get these trimmed and an expander and a seater die sorted out I will be getting my reamer made.

Pretty excited, as soon as the reamer is in it will be just waiting for pacnor to get back to business. Last time I spoke with them they said this summer, but I haven't checked with them recently.

https://imgdump5.novarata.net/640x753/ntf7d6.jpg

https://imgdump5.novarata.net/640x753/kckxls.jpg

https://imgdump5.novarata.net/640x753/velryk.jpg

Trying to figure out how to get my IMG to display in the correct orientation...

[ASSASSIN]

Very nice!

[swamp]

I cast a 650 gr. flat tip for my 50-140-3.25 SS rolling block. Let me know if yu would like to try some.
swamp

264787

[elmacgyver0]

This sounds like a project I was going to do, a wildcat called a .510 Reedwhacker.
Parent case .300 WSM.
I didn't come up with it, a young guy by the name of Reed did.
He used it in an AR platform.
I actually have a set of dies custom made by Lee for it.
I have a couple 24" barrel blanks I bought from Mark Serbu but never did pursue the project any further.
This was several years ago.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
How long is the case after triming ?

[TOWS220]

Missionary- I haven't settled on an exact case length, but I will probably go with 1.8 inch.

Macgyver- I had looked at a .510 wsm, the only reason I didn't do it was I was building on a long action so i figured why not get a bit more case. How is the seater die that Lee made for you put together? Is it a standard 7/8th thread or one of the larger diameter dies?

Swamp- Thanks for the offer on boolits, once I get this thing put together I will certainly take you up on it.

[MOA]

The 50 Alaskan is also a fun little .50 caliber cartridge, with 600 gr. to 1,200+ gr. cast boolits, plus most any surplus 50 BMG bullets.

This makes for an excellent round in the T/C Encore!

The little rink dink .22 Stinger is shown for comparison. :mrgreen:

264619

ASSASSIN, what mold is the cast on the left in this image? Looks like something I might want to try in my 50 Alaskan BPE.

https://i.postimg.cc/7hqNHDks/20190922_114906.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ftgdCGkm)

[onelight]

ASSASSIN, what mold is the cast on the left in this image? Looks like something I might want to try in my 50 Alaskan BPE.

https://i.postimg.cc/7hqNHDks/20190922_114906.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ftgdCGkm)
Those are pointy 8-)

[reed1911]

Love them! They just look mean.

[ASSASSIN]

MOA - that is from a mold I made 2 or 3 years ago from a block of aluminum. I made it a single cavity, because I would not be shooting a lot of these bullets, and because I didn't think I could get a 100% identical match to the first.

I use babbitt for my Boolits because of the extra weight and hardness.

I got lucky on this one, because the accuracy from a Ruger #1 with a 32" barrel is quite phenomenal!

Love those "pointy" bullets of yours. They look great!

[dk17hmr]

I have a 50 razorback that I still need to buy dies for. It's bee. Sitting in my safe for about 6 years unfired. I watched my buddy JT kill two doe antelope with it when it was still his. I need to get it up and running again.

[MOA]

MOA - that is from a mold I made 2 or 3 years ago from a block of aluminum. I made it a single cavity, because I would not be shooting a lot of these bullets, and because I didn't think I could get a 100% identical match to the first.

I use babbitt for my Boolits because of the extra weight and hardness.

I got lucky on this one, because the accuracy from a Ruger #1 with a 32" barrel is quite phenomenal!

Love those "pointy" bullets of yours. They look great!


Who's barrel did you put on the 1?

[ASSASSIN]

Who's barrel did you put on the 1?

It's one of my barrels. 416R stainless steel.

[M.A.D]

You could just build a 700 HBH and have the biggest whisper on the block

[TOWS220]

Question for you guys.

What are you using for a bullet seating die for your 50 alaskans and such? Does it work with both cast lead and jacketed?

It seems like I will have to have something custom made and it will have to have a few plugs for the different shapes of bullet.

Other updates, magnum bolthead for my savage is here and I think after cutting the inner ribs out I can fit and feed these from a magpul magnum long action magazine.

Still pondering final dimensions for my reamer. Do you guys see any problems with the chamber being a straight cylinder vs having taper that is present in some "straight" wall catridges?

[reed1911]

I use an RCBS die. I've moved to the hot glue method for just about everything if the current seat plug does not fit. I used to make my own to fit all sorts of bullets, but the hot glue method is so much easier (easier than a CNC machine) I've just moved to it.

[ASSASSIN]

I use a Hornady New Dimension bullet seating die for my 50 Alaskan, and just change out the bullet seater as needed.

Cast or jacketed makes no difference!

If your chamber is cut to minimum specs, you will have less issues with a straight walled cartridge, especially if you are a little heavy handed at the powder scale.

[colchester]

Here is my take on the project 50-338 Norma
265400

[TOWS220]

Colchester, that looks great! I love that you are able to get a shoulder in there. What are you using for a seating die?

[colchester]

Colchester, that looks great! I love that you are able to get a shoulder in there. What are you using for a seating die?

I made a die set for this just a basic seating die design

[lar45]

I had a thought about your reloading dies. What about using 50-70 dies?
The 50-70 is .565" at the base, which is .020" larger than your 7mm Blaser mag so you wouldn't get any sizing done at the base, but...
Edit: my Lyman 50-70 sizeing die measures .556" at the base.
The 50-70 is .535" at the mouth which should be about right for a .510" bullet and the slightly thicker brass at the shoulder area.
The 50-70 is 1.75" long, so you'd be able to adjust it out for a crimp.
RCBS 50-70 dies are availible at Midway for $53.

Or maybe use 50 Alaskan dies
50 Ak is .554" at the base and .535" at the mouth, but is 2.1" long, so you could cut them down abit and get a slightly smaller base.
Hornady 50 AK dies are available at Midway for $90

Either way, it's much cheaper than a custom set of dies.

[lar45]

As far as straight vs taper for your reamer.
You might cut a case off, expand and seat a bullet, then measure the mouth, add .002" ish for neck release.
Then use that and your cases base measurement for a straight taper so you won't have to do any neck reaming or turning, just cut the cases off, trim to length and go.

[TOWS220]

Since I can't post in the Swappin and Sellin section yet, does anyone out there have a .50-90/.50-70 lyman "M" expander die?

I think I can get one of these to work well for my initial expanding step for case forming.

[lar45]

NOE has some 510 expanders in there pistol section.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/513-x-509-p-exp-plug

[missionary5155]

We use those NOE expanders. For lead slug loading a great step forward.

[TOWS220]

Thanks! I think I am going to try the NOE plug and the lee die out. I like most stuff I use from Lee.

[TOWS220]

Well, things have been moving along slowly but surely! My suppressor is in the safe (vers 50), the reamer was made by PTG, a savage long action and a magnum sized bolt head are on hand, and I just picked up my barrel! Just need to finish up my move from montana back to north carolina and then I can get everything screwed together.

I decided to go with a chambering that PTG called 500 razorback short, it is pretty much a remington ultra mag chopped before the shoulder and loaded with a .510 projectile.

I'm trying to find a mold that will cast something around the 650gr range to match with the API pulls I have, any suggestions? If anyone has something like that sitting around that they'd like to sell, please let me know.

Once I get this thing put together, I'll get some pictures up.

[BK7saum]

What are the specs of the razorback short reamer? i am having problems with chambering unless i turn case necks to about 0.009". I am thinking about rechambering and decreasing the taper to the case mouth. Just havent done it yet. .

[TOWS220]

BK7saum, Here is the reamer print that I got from PTG, let me know if that helps.

https://imgdump5.novarata.net/r0e7k8.png

[BK7saum]

Thanks. It does help. The 0.531 chamber mouth measurement is my problem. If i use a bullet of 0.512" diameter, that only gives me ~0.018" for two case walls. My RUM brass at the shoulder are about 0.017 per case wall or 0.017x2=0.034" total.

i am turning my case necks from 0.017" to about 0.0085" in order to chamber my cast bullets. i would like to decrease my taper a little in order to turn my cases a little less. I know i cannot avoid neck turning altogether, but 0.085" is getting really thin and fragile.

Just something to consider as you go down this road. i have made about 20 cases so far, but have about 600 RP and Norma RUM brass stashed for hard times and and upcoming 300 RUM build.

[TOWS220]

What powder and bullet combos have you been using, bk7saum?

[BK7saum]

i have loaded a MP 512-640 at 440 grains with gas check to about 2000 fps with H4198. I have started with trailboss for a subsonic MP 512-640 hollowpoint at 525 grains. And i have shot a few BMG API bullets at about 1700 fps with H4198. The APIs will flash and almost penetrate 3/4" mild steel. The 440 flat nose at 2000 fps is not bobcat friendly. i was hoping for a .50 cal pass through which did not happen.

I hope to shoot a deer or two this year with either the 440 or subsonic 525 hollowpoint. I think an API on a big boar would be interesting but would probably act like an fmj and pass right through.

But H4198 and trailboss are all ive played with at this point.

[TOWS220]

Thank you, I am working on having a friend run some quickload calculations and I will post the various powder recommendations here when its done. I am currently working with pulled API's for my jacketed and the lee 500 grain 50-70 mold for my cast stuff.

Also, as I continue to work on this project I may go the route you have and have my chamber re-reamed. It is disappointing, but i have to remind myself that atleast it is on the tight side and not too large. You can always cut, but adding it difficult. Perhaps if this is something we pursue, we can split the cost of the reamer.

[Messy bear]

I have single point lathe cut chambers for something like this. Saves a lot of money

[TOWS220]

Another update:

Project has gotten on the rocks as of lately. It turns out that the chamber reamer I had made is not really going to work for me. This being my first shot at a wildcat, I really didn't know what I need to look for in the drawing and long story short, my chamber at the case mouth is just to narrow.
My goal is to not have to do any neck turning and right now the chamber is just too tight.

I am considering either getting a new reamer made to the dimensions I want or having a smith cut the chamber to my specs with a boring bar. If i order the reamer I think i should be able to just run it in nice and easy by hand like I have done with pull through reamers on short reamed barrels in the past, but having another reamer made would be an expensive proposition and time consuming. On the other hand, I don't know a smith or machinist would i trust enough locally to cut the chamber as this is the last chance at getting this thing right and if it is wrong then I am **** outta luck.

What say you?

Also, I believe I will be getting rid of the reamer soon so if anyone is interested I'd probably give it away. certainly would trade it towards someone who could cut my chamber to where it needs to be.

[MOA]

Get with John Taylor on the forum.