Reloading die's Lee vs Redding

[Wm Cook]

I’ve had my head stuck in Wilson hand seaters and neck sizing dies for the past 20 years so I apologize for the ignorance on this topic.

The question seems simple but it's probably more complicated than I understand. As I moved toward handgun cartridges (specificly 9mm and 45 LF) I made the routine search for hand loading dies. And a few questions popped up.

Could someone tell me the difference in quality between these two sets of dies. One if from Lee and one is from Redding

Package 1 from Lee = $50.33 (https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=LE&i=90963)
Lee 9mm Luger Deluxe Carbide 4 Die Set Includes:
• Carbide Sizing Die
• Bullet Seat and Feed Die
• Powder Thru Expanding Die
• Factory Crimp Die

Package 2 from Redding = Total $150.93
Redding Titanium Carbide 3 Die set = $119.65 (https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RE&i=88172)
• Titanium Carbide Sizing Die
• Bullet Seating Die with Built-In Crimp
• Expander Die
Redding Taper Crimp Dies = $31.28 (https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RE&i=85172)
• Taper crimp die

The same question is with the 45LC but that’s a bit more complicated.

I have dies from all manufacturers but this is the first time I have the option of lubing cases or not lubing cases. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill.

[Texas by God]

Redding's dies are works of art. Lee's dies load just ammo just as good in my experience. I use both brands.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Winger Ed.]

They both work well for shooting soda pop cans in the berms.

If you're shooting for money, you'll probably want the Reddings.

[megasupermagnum]

None of those are hand loading dies, if that is what you are looking for. Redding doesn't make any to my knowledge. Lee makes the following kit for 45 colt, and I would sure hope they have 9mm luger as well. https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-90263-Classic-Loader-45/dp/B00162THL4

I usually do not need lube with straight wall cartridges, as their dies usually size with a carbide insert. It has been years since I broke out my Lee hand loading kit.

[onelight]

The factory crimp die in Lee 4 die set will post size over size bullets I like it and use for all my auto pistol loads . Look at the description of how they work on the Lee sight they are different than most other brands.
But if you don't want to post size that buy the Lee 3 die set and the style crimp die you want. My revolver Lee dies don't post size on any of the bullets I load.
The Lee neck expanding die is also a powder charging die that works with Lee Powder dispensers or you can pour a charge through the top if you measure powder on a bench measure or use dippers.
Somethings that may influence your choice are the type press and process you prefer RCBS and Lyman die prices will fall between the two you listed. I have Lyman Redding Rcbs but almost all my hand gun ammo is loaded on Lee dies now I just Like many of the features and the price. All of them are good dies but all have advantages and disadvantages.

[nicholst55]

Redding dies are finished better than Lee dies, inside and out. Both brands will generally load serviceable ammo. Lee products are made to a lower price point, and their fit and finish - and the materials that they are made from - reflect that.

I've probably made this statement before, but I will repeat it. Lee has some really good, innovative ideas. The transition from the drawing board to execution sometimes leaves much to be desired in the end product. And yes, I do own and use some Lee products. I generally do not recommend them to others. YMMV.

[BigAlofPa.]

I use Lee, Lyman and RCBS dies. Been happy with them all.

[charlie b]

I have to say that I mostly use Lee dies as well, for over 40 years. I have also used Lee presses for just as long. And, yes, loading pistol cartridges with carbide dies is wonderful. No case lube ever needed. The taper crimp dies work well too. On a progressive the extra crimp station is not a big deal and doesn't slow up the process at all. For rifles I use the collet neck sizing dies for the same reason.

If I were to get serious about bench rest then I'd invest in stuff like Wilson's. For everything else I use Lee.

[greenjoytj]

I have 45 Colt dies made by Redding and RCBS.
My Redding dies are: 1) Old style steel that requires cartridge cases to be lubed for sizing.
2) The new Redding Dual Ring carbide sizing die. In the instructions that came with the Dull Ring die Redding recommends using a sizing lube on the cases. I have used this die on un-lubed cases it just takes a harder push on the press handle. If I lube the cases (Imperial Sizing Wax smeared on a foam lube pad) the effort to size is noticeably reduced.
But there is no time saved over the old style steel dies if your lubing cases.

My RCBS 45 Colt sizing die works as good as the Redding steel die. I only use the FL sizer die.

When it comes to bullet seating I am more picky I have retro-fitted the Redding standard screw bullet seating stem with their New micrometer head seating stem it, works super.

I use micrometer head bullet seating dies all the calibers I reload.

The first carbide die set I bought was a Lyman for 38spl/357mag. It has a single carbide ring sizing die. Never again, finished cartridges looked like wasp waisted coke bottles.

I have some LEE die sets like everyone else, that’s what you start with but those caliber die set get augmented with other dies like mandrill neck sizers and micrometer head bullet seaters.

[white eagle]

I would never use Lee reloading dies when Redding dies are available
I try and use Redding exclusively sometimes I can't for whatever reason
but given a choice I will always pick Redding

[Walks]

In 60yrs I've found quality matters more in just about every type of Reloading Equipment.

Lee is better then nothing, and if that's all you can afford.

I'd buy a steel Redding set with a Profile Crimp die over Lee any day of the Week.

As others have said, Lee has some very innovative ideas.
Unfortunately the CHEAP Materials & execu tion of those Ideas really negates any worthwhile use of same.

[onelight]

In 60yrs I've found quality matters more in just about every type of Reloading Equipment.

Lee is better then nothing, and if that's all you can afford.

I'd buy a steel Redding set with a Profile Crimp die over Lee any day of the Week.

As others have said, Lee has some very innovative ideas.
Unfortunately the CHEAP Materials & execu tion of those Ideas really negates any worthwhile use of same.
So do you think the folks who say they have had years of good service from Lee dies are lying ? Or do you think they are to dumb to tell the difference between a tool that works and one that doesn't ?
I think your post says more about you than Lee tools.

[sigep1764]

I have Lee, Dillon, Redding, and RCBS dies. For $32 bucks at Graf's, the Lee dies are hard to beat at that price. The Redding dies I bought used, but boy, I'd pay new prices for those. The difference in materials, finish, heft, lock rings, etc, is worth it. Same goes for the Dillon dies, they get a small knock for not having a screw lock on the die rings. RCBS make great dies. In my experience, better than Lee in materials, but do not have the quality features and execution of these features that define Dillon and Redding in my mind. Again, I use all of these brands for differing calibers. For higher round counts, I prefer the Dillons and Reddings.

[onelight]

I have Lee, Dillon, Redding, and RCBS dies. For $32 bucks at Graf's, the Lee dies are hard to beat at that price. The Redding dies I bought used, but boy, I'd pay new prices for those. The difference in materials, finish, heft, lock rings, etc, is worth it. Same goes for the Dillon dies, they get a small knock for not having a screw lock on the die rings. RCBS make great dies. In my experience, better than Lee in materials, but do not have the quality features and execution of these features that define Dillon and Redding in my mind. Again, I use all of these brands for differing calibers. For higher round counts, I prefer the Dillons and Reddings.
Good post
Nothing wrong with enjoying Well built and finished quality tools.
And dies have different features that appeal to us in function as part of the whole package in our process.
But I don't think on the target there is going to be any practical difference in any of the brands of auto pistol dies for 99% of us , the same with the life span of the die for 99% of us we will never wear them out.
Buy what works in your process and if you just like the nicest built tool get what you want , but if the guy with the Lee dies is a better shot he is still going to shoot smaller groups.

[MrWolf]

So do you think the folks who say they have had years of good service from Lee dies are lying ? Or do you think they are to dumb to tell the difference between a tool that works and one that doesn't ?
I think your post says more about you than Lee tools.

Nice thing about this country - for now - is that everyone gets to express their opinion even if others find fault with it. I happen to go to Dillon first and then Redding, RCBS, etc with Lee as my last recourse. That is my opinion of course.

[DocSavage]

Lee reloading is for those who want to reload but don't have a big budget
or want to dip their toe in the reloading pond. The other companies are where you go once you have some knowledge and want sturdier equipment. I started with a Lee whack a mole kit and that got old pretty fast went from there to single stage RCBS then Dillon 450,550 now 2 650s and a Redding Big Boss 2. Dies RCBS,Redding and Dillon.. Pretty most all the companies have a life time warranty,Lee 2 years that's something to consider as well.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Lee dies work very well, they have pluses and minuses. I also use Redding dies, pluses, only minus is cost. I use the Redding bushing 'S' dies for 308 and 223, reduces working case neck brass, I use Lee Collet neck sizing dies in other calibers with similar results. I don't care for the decapping pin set-up on Lee dies as it is not easily removable, sometimes I don't want to decap (primed cases) or pull the case neck over an expanding plug. I think the Lee Factory Crimp for rifles makes the best looking crimp, I will not use the Lee Factory Crimp with base sizing ring as it can change bullet diameter. I use Redding Competition shellholders with ALL my dies when full-length sizing to get a more precise headspace set-up. Case life is remarkably long when full-length sizing with the appropriate Redding Competition shellholder. Lee makes a lot of good stuff - I like their 4-hole turret, I use as a single stage, but can set-up dies and simply swap turrets. I have acouple Pro 1000's, one for 38/357 (2 toolheads) one for 44 Spl, $$ Mag, 45 Colt (3 toolheads). I find the Lee Perfect Powder measure the quickest to adjust and no crunch. I do have and RCBS Uniflow and an old Herters, but I use the Lee.
The Redding dies are premium and when I 'buy myself a present' it is often Redding equipment, but I use many, many Lee dies and other products. Read the directions, take time to set things up and Lee works very well, stay away from the Factory Crimp die with the 'extra sizing ring'. I have a Dillon 550 and a Lee Loadmaster also, I use the Loadmaster over the 550.

[PJEagle]

I started with Lee dies and a Lee breech lock press. Over the years I have added Redding equipment. Now I run a mix of the two. The first thing I learned was that Lee factory crimp dies post sized my 357 cast bullets and ruined the accuracy of the rounds. So I discarded the FCD's for revolver brass and purchased Lee collet crimp dies. That was a great improvement. Next I noticed that the breech lock bushings would flex a little under a heavy load, so I gave the breech lock press to a friend who wanted it and purchased a Lee classic cast press. The classic cast is a solid press for my use and I have been very happy with it. I equipped it with an In-Line ergo roller lever, which is a great improvement over the Lee straight lever with the ball grip.

I have always purchased the best tools for my woodworking, so I decided that Redding must be better than Lee. Over the years I have learned that is true in some instances and false in others. I really like my Redding 10X powder measure. I made the mistake of purchasing Redding's most expensive case trimmer and was very disappointed. The collet style shell holder never gripped any two cases in the same way and this gave very inconsistent case lengths. They were no better than the Lee trimmers. I sold the Redding for half of what I paid for it and bought a L.E. Wilson. Now the trim lengths are very consistent. Next I purchased a Redding dual ring carbide sizing die for my 357's. Right out of the box it put four scratches in each piece of brass. I sent it back to Redding and after some lengthy discussions, they finally polished it and sent it back. It works very well now, but their quality control could have been a lot better for the price of the die. Next I purchased a Redding 357 micrometer seating die. Then I learned the hard way that die is designed only for jacketed bullets. It scrapes the sides of .358 cast boolits. After a lot of research, I found that was a known problem and Redding won't fix it. So, I sold it for half of what I paid for it and went back to my original Lee bullet seating die, which does a great job. The Redding micrometer 357 crimp die works great.

My Lee powder scale and powder measure were worthless, so I replaced them with RCBS and Redding products and have been very happy. All in all both Lee and Redding make some good products and some that are not so good. I hope others can learn from my experience and not waste as much money.

[onelight]

I do think we should express why we like about a tool or equipment and what we don't .
I don't like some of the tools from Lee but that is goes for other brands as well.
Some of the Lee tools are defiantly made to get a guy started as cheap as possible but many of Lee tools are arguably as good as any thing out there.
Dies are what this thread is about , if how the dies look and feel is what important or if you don't like the lock rings or you like micrometer adjustments or other features better all of that is great information and helpful , saying everything a manufacture makes is " cheap materials and execution " is like saying any thing less than this hammer is " cheap materials and execution "
Stiletto TB3MCSE 15 Oz Ti-Bone III Titanium Hammer With Milled Face And Curved Handle - Special Edition
(7)
Free shipping
$336.99
Performance Line Tool Center
I guess somebody wants a 300.00 hammer but you sure don't need one to drive a nail. This hammer only makes a regular hammer substandard when you compare them to a 300.00 hammer. Not when measured against the job of driving nails.

[farmbif]

not exactly what your asking but, if you can find Lyman deluxe carbide 4 die set in black box they are excellent and include "M" die. the difference in lee sizing die is center stem primer punch is held by friction rather than threaded.

[skeet1]

The difference is mostly looks and money. If the money doesn't matter and the looks are important then Redding is the way to go. The Lee dies work very well and I have never been let down.

[1hole]

Nice thing about this country - for now - is that everyone gets to express their opinion even if others find fault with it. I happen to go to Dillon first and then Redding, RCBS, etc with Lee as my last recourse. That is my opinion of course.

There's nothing wrong with your opinion, after all it is your opinion and that's all you honestly claim it to be. BUT, if we measure reloading tools, perhaps especially dies, by how they perform rather than by how pretty they are or how slick they feel, it's hard for anyone to honestly claim their favorites are any "better" than others. Fact is, dies make ammo on the inside and, inside, Lee's "cheep" dies work as well as any other brand ... and sometimes, better.

Dies have an established (SAMMI) manufacturing dimensional tolerance range (so do chambers). Anything that falls between the minimum and maximum is fully in tolerance and EVERY die maker meets that criteria but they can't possibly do any better. I mean, if it's in tolerance that's a good as we can ask!

It's true that serious BR rifle competitors don't use Lee dies at all. But then they don't use RCBS, Redding, Forster, Dillon, Hornady, Lyman, etc, either. In fact they don't use threaded dies at all, they use custom made hand dies and carefully load a few rounds at a time. And they load carefully selected and "cleaned up" cases too; they know that without precision cases using high precision dies won't matter. That's why these recurring "my die brand is better than yours" web arguments are laffable.

Bottom line for buying dies for ammo to be used in factory firearms is to pay as much as it takes to make you feel good and then happily load ammo on them, your groups sure won't know what dies were used. And, if your groups do show a difference, it will be because you got a lucky stack of tolerances, not because of a die brand. Common sense proof of that is if any die brand actually out performed the others they could - and would - use that data in their advertizing but NO ONE DOES THAT because it's not true!

I've been reloading a long time and have owned dies from about fifteen brands. Used correctly they all work fine but most are long gone and many - most? - of you have never even heard of some of them.

I rarely mention my favorite die brands because they're only my choice (for specific features) and no one knows that better than me. I do have a couple of favorites but it would be misleading if I made a recommendation based only on what I like and I just won't do that!

[DonHowe]

I have Wilson, Redding, Forster, Lyman, Pacific, Hornady, Herters, Lee and RCBS dies. I PREFER Wilson, Redding and Forster but being a pensioner may not buy any more of those. I have had at least satisfactory results from all those brands, in part because some of those brands are in little used calibers. Some were bought used and brand did not matter because the price was right. The RCBS dies I have were either bought in my early years or because the price was right. Unless RCBS die design has changed I will buy no more of them as I despise having to screw everything out the bottom of the die.

[Walks]

Insult me if you will.
My experience of Lee dies will not change.
Lee is a INEXPENSIVE way to start. I've even bought a Lee die set in the past. A set for .32S&W, they were a mix of .32ACP & .32S&W Long. They were too long to crimp a bullet into the case.
Called Lee C.S. ; they suggested I BUY a .32ACP Taper Crimp die. Wasted more money on that. It WAS TOO SHORT TO CRIMP also.
I even tried their fcd. Too bad I bought a .44-40 and Lee put a .44Mag into the package. Lee C.S. didn't believe me and refused an exchange.
Fortunetly GRAF & SONS took it back. But had no .44-40 fcd in a correctly marked package.

So maybe it is just me, but I have a reason.

And I do use Lee tools, the decapping rod & base in both large and small have given great service for more the 45yrs.
The hand auto prime worked well, until they wore out. Two of them.
The RCBS version has lasted 30+yrs.

Their warranty stinks too. Only two years and you better have saved the receipt.

[robg]

when i started handloading i didnt use lee i thought they were cheap therefore rubbish ,was i stupid ,only use lee dies now work well they are inexpensive not cheap.

[onelight]

That makes sense Walks ,that is more helpful than a blanket it's substandard response , I may not have had the same experience with Lee but I have with other companies and when it's bad enough I avoid that brand of products if I have a choice. I had that happen with a Glock 36 of all things,
it would randomly jam it might go 150 rounds or it might go 5 after about 1500 rounds and two different Glock smiths look at it different mags recoil springs and other bits I don't even remember I could never get comfortable with it so went back to the store where I bought it with full disclosure of the problem and I took my thump and traded it back to them .But I know that Glock was an exception common sense tells me they are not all like that. But I don't have any Glocks now.

[rcslotcar]

I've used RCBS dies since 1972 and never had a problem. They are in the middle of the road for cost. You can look on ebay for a used set of carbide at an even better cost. Make sure to inspect(enlarge) the picture and look at the condition. I shoot Hornady, "one shot" case lube on all my cases(carbide dies) even with straight wall cases. They feed smoothly and never get stuck. The only Lee products I use is their rifle case trimmer and cast bullet sizer that do not have lube holes. Good luck with you reloading and always ask questions as there is a lot of opinions and none are perfect.

[charlie b]

I do not consider Lee stuff only for beginners or the ham fisted types. Just not true.

Interesting that Lee has provided replacement parts for anything I have worn out. The other side of that is I have yet to wear out any dies and have not had any bad ones. Only 20 or so sets of them so maybe I have just been lucky. FWIW, that friction decapping stem is nice to have. If something gets in a case and jams the pin the stem just slides up instead of bending or breaking like what happened to me with an RCBS die years ago. One of those 'features' Lee decided on that I like.

When I have had to replace parts on their presses they have been sent to me free of charge, even on a press that is almost 20yrs old now.

And I do know of a few people who use some Lee dies in precision shooting reloading. Lee will also do some custom work on their stuff. If you have any questions you can just contact them and see what they will do.

[dverna]

For loading pistol with lubed bullets get Dillon dies. Nice to be able to clean the seating die without having to readjust it.

If there is a difference in accuracy between pistol die manufacturers, I doubt it is discernible. I only use Dillon pistol dies because of the lube issue.

On rifle dies, if shooting cast, I doubt it matters much either. We are not shooting bug holes.

[jonp]

The only dies I would spend extra on outside of Lee would be a micrometer die and that only if I was shooting competition or 1,000yrd. Even then it would be the ease of use being able to dial in a particular setting for a bullet/powder combo for a rifle. Lee dies load just as good as anyones for less money, imho.

The only set of Redding dies I have is for my 416 Ruger and that's because Lee doesn't make them and the guy that sold me the rifle sent them along free of charge. They are great dies for sure but better than Lee? I won't say that

[Tonto]

I suspect nobody here could look at a loaded round and tell what die brand was used to load it. They all work, celebrate the fortune of choices. For the last few firearms I've acquired I've bought LEE dies, inexpensive and they work and the local gun shop has them usually in stock when I walk in. I started with RCBS and still use those dies, I've never had to replace any brand of dies for not working or failure. Never. Why would I spend hundreds when $35 works?

[HangFireW8]

I suspect nobody here could look at a loaded round and tell what die brand was used to load it. They all work, celebrate the fortune of choices. For the last few firearms I've acquired I've bought LEE dies, inexpensive and they work and the local gun shop has them usually in stock when I walk in. I started with RCBS and still use those dies, I've never had to replace any brand of dies for not working or failure. Never. Why would I spend hundreds when $35 works?I can tell if something is amiss with my RCBS runout gage, but the problem could be technique or components as much as dies.

I used to have a crooked Lee 222 sizing die that I indexed and used it to correct crooked brass. But I couldn't use it to load straight brass, so I had to buy more dies, and eventually got rid of the Lee set.

All my brands of dies will pull brass eccentric if I leave the stock expander ball in them. So I don't use stock expanders any more, unless case forming, or salvaging crushed brass. If I do I use an undersized ball, which usually does nothing but serves as a check for odd cases that will have too much neck tension.

Whenever someone brags about their dies, I ask what their average runout and cull rate is. The answer instantly separates the knowledgeable from the smoke blowers.

[Mk42gunner]

Redding dies are finished better than Lee dies, inside and out. Both brands will generally load serviceable ammo. Lee products are made to a lower price point, and their fit and finish - and the materials that they are made from - reflect that.

I've probably made this statement before, but I will repeat it. Lee has some really good, innovative ideas. The transition from the drawing board to execution sometimes leaves much to be desired in the end product. And yes, I do own and use some Lee products. I generally do not recommend them to others. YMMV.

Well said.
I do not like the Lee powder through expander dies, everyone I have had sticks to much for my liking. On the plus side, it should vibrate any granules the want to bridge in the die free, but I don't run a measure on mine so it is kind of moot to me. I have never used one of Lee's FCD for pistols, normal roll or taper crimps work fine for me.

Never used any Redding handgun dies, but I would expect them to be nice.

Robert

[charlie b]

....
Whenever someone brags about their dies, I ask what their average runout and cull rate is. The answer instantly separates the knowledgeable from the smoke blowers.

I'd rather ask them what size groups they are shooting. ;)

[Jniedbalski]

The Rcbs and Redding Dies look real nice that I have. I must be a lousy shot because the lee dies I have may not look as nice but the ammo shoots just as good. I only have 4 or so Rcbs and one Redding die. I got them cheep or with a rifle I bought. I can’t afford any high price dies but if they did load any better I would save up for them. If you can afford the high end dies buy them. Most of my stuff is lee just because I can afford them. Snap on tools look real nice also but my chrastman tools gets the job done.

[onelight]

not exactly what your asking but, if you can find Lyman deluxe carbide 4 die set in black box they are excellent and include "M" die. the difference in lee sizing die is center stem primer punch is held by friction rather than threaded.
That is true but that sliding punch has kept me from damaging the pin numerous times , but they are more of a pain to adjust.

[samari46]

Been reloading since about 1968 for an 1917 Enfield in 30-06. Probably have about 45-50 die sets from just about everybody except Herters. Started out with a set of Eagle steel dies for the '06 and a aluminum texan C type press. At one time all my reloading stuff and I mean all could fit in a USN 20mm ammo can.
I changed over to RCBS reloading equipment in the late '60's. Rockchucker press, dies, powder scale. Basically stayed that way for years. Then I had a short fling with high power shooting. Swung over to Forster with case trimmer, hand dies, a little hand press to use with the dies and a bunch of case holders for various calibers. Again stayed with that for some years. Handgun was out as I lived in NYC. When I mentioned 45-50 sets of dies I really don't have that many calibers to reload for as you would see me picking up soda cabs,bottles along the roadways. I buy dies that have done on sale,store closings or if I see a set here for sale I buy it. That saved my bacon on more than one occasion. I bought a Win Big Bore XTP in 375 win. Bought a set of Lee dies in that caliber. Lubed the cases and immediately started getting scratches the length of the case. Cleaned out the weep hole in the F/L die and proceeded to ruin more cases. Remembered I had bought a 3 die RCBS 375 win set from a member here. Cleaned them out and proceeded sizing like nothing was happening. Beautiful sized brass and no scratched. Those lee dies went where they won't be found for the next century. On the other hand all my trimming on cartridge lots of 50 cases or less are done using the lee cutter and lockstud. Dies are Redding. Anything over 50 rounds using the Wilson case trimmer attached to a small variable speed drill. Wilson makes case holders for both new and fired cases. So have a bunch of them. And when I started shooting pistol I went to Dillon. Only had one problem with a set of 44 magnum dies. Size the case and definitely came out out of round. Called them up explained the problem and within a week had a new set. Outside of getting a die stem bent from depriming some berdan primed cases which RCBS replaced. Most if not all my reloading equipment has given me good service over the years. Next set of dies is the famcy ones by redding with the micrometer seater as I want to start shooting cast bullets out of my Model 70 match rifle.
I have a dew Lee bullet molds but have had success with them. The 6 cavity jobs from years back did ok but not as well as should be expected. Do own a Lee Classic steel press as I needed the room for loading the 500 grain bullets for my two 45/70's Ruger #1 and a Pedersoli 1874 infantry rifle. I only have one set of Hornady dies I have is a two die set for the 9.3x57. They should make a deluxe set with the addition of a neck die. And presses are RCBS Rockchucker,Dillon 550B,Lee Classic steel press, And an old CH C press. The texan was given to a friend who wanted to start reloading. Now if I really want to start a war I basically only use Sierra bullets, some Speer, some PPU, and some old military pull downs from old military cartridges. Frank

[Petrol & Powder]

As predicted, this thread produced a lot of opinions, some emotion and some useful information.

Lee products get bashed frequently and some of that bashing is deserved and some isn't.

Lee products are designed to hit a price point. Sometimes Lee products are good enough, sometimes they aren't.

Like many others here, I have an assortment of reloading equipment; including Lee, Redding and others. In terms of price, Lee and Redding probably represent the extremes of cost with one being on the low end and the other being on the high end.

Sometimes our loyalty to a brand is well placed and sometimes that brand loyalty gets the best of us.

I believe dies are simple tools but there are some important considerations. The materials used to make the die, the interior finish, the dimensions, is the bore centered are some of the considerations. Generally speaking, I think most manufacturers can do an adequate job of making a die. It isn't rocket science.
However, I only want to buy that die one time. Experience has proven that a well cared for die will last a lifetime and then some. So I'll put more money up front in my quest to only buy it once.

Am I wasting money? Could I buy a Lee die and get one that that is made correctly that will turn out good cartridges? - Maybe.
But I'm willing to spend a little more and buy a Redding or RCBS and be very confident that I will have a good die that will last a lifetime.

[Rick Hodges]

My only Redding dies are bushing dies for a 6mm Remington. They do excellent work. I own quite a few Lee dies and some LYman. I have both Lyman and Lee dies in .308 Winchester and much prefer the Lee's. Much easier to use and adjust....and the ammo is every bit as good.
I have Lyman 38/357 dies as well as Lee's and prefer the Lee's for the same reason.

I would have a very hard time justifying spending 3 times as much money for Redding dies for 9mm. Perhaps for a precision rifle, but not for a typical 9mm handgun.

[MT Gianni]

The dies are for 9mm. If it were for a bench rest gun, sniper use or targets for money that is one thing. The cost of dies should not exceed the cost of the high point. It is very similar to putting a $1200 scope on a $350 bolt gun. Buy the best you can afford and consider it's use.

[rockrat]

I use Lee, RCBS,, Redding and Dillon dies. Mainly Lee's are used for pistol, but I do have some Lee rifle dies and have been happy with them. Did have one 30-30 set that really sized my brass down way too much, but found a used set at a gun show and that Lee set has been great. I prefer Redding followed closely (very closely) by RCBS, then Lee. My Dillons I got great deals on, otherwise I would probably have Reddings.

customer service by RCBS has been outstanding, the few times I have needed it!!

[John Boy]

For starters, I reload smokeless and black powder for calibers from 22 LR up to 50-70 plus several metrics. The only caliber die that that will reload the 44-40 better than a Lee is a RCBS. My die inventory of 55, of all the brands that I have no issues with are:
* 32 - Lee
* 9 - CH4D, the most expensive dies purchased
* 6 - RCBS, including the 32-40 Cowboy die
* 3 - Dillon
* 1 - Hornady
* 3 - Lyman
* 1- Western

[mto7464]

I have both the redding Pro (progressive lacks the expander) and the Lee in 9mm that i use on my dillon. I prefer the Redding sizer. It seems slicker then the lee so less effort is required. For seating the bullet I use the Lee. I have had several "custom" stems made for various cast boolits which makes seating a little more consistant. For reducing the flare I have found I favor the redding. In the end lee dies will work fine. Only reason I have the redding is I got a great deal on them or I may have never bought them.

[dragon813gt]

I buy Lee first. If they don’t work I will buy something else. If Lee doesn’t make it, like Lyman M-Dies, I buy another brand. I let results on target determine how well the dies are doing. I don’t shoot for competition and I’m not chasing tenths of an inch. There have been only a few times where I had to buy another brand besides Lee. One was for converting 7.62 brass to 358. Even though Lee’s expander was tapered it was the slip fit design of it that caused issues. A Redding die solved this issue.

[1hole]

A short essay in precision reloading logic:

First, understand that accuracy doesn't come in a box. Everyone's "favorite" die brand is simply the one that gives him the best accuracy he ever got from his most accurate rifle. Bad thing about asking on the web what others think is "best" is if you think our favorite die brand (or anyone else's) will be your best brand you're likely wrong because individual dies vary; if you buy a die set that works very well for me it's my good luck but it's not always good for you. And it doesn't matter how pretty or costly something is if it does what you need it to do!

I've made chamber casts of 30 to 40 FL sizers of all brands and find there's as much internal difference between sizer dies of the same brand as there is between brands. And seaters are also inconsistent. But, if your bullets aren't seating straight the first thing to check is the cases; no seater can make straight ammo in lousy necks. Consistent accuracy demands straight ammo and common variations in individual seaters are very significant.

Both Forster and Redding's "Competition"/"BR" seaters are, IMHO, dependably very good to excellent. Only they have spring loaded full case length sleeves that closely mimic BR hand dies in that they align both case and bullet well before seating starts. Some other brands have costly seaters with short, loosely fitted sliding bullet guides that they label "competition" but none of them align the case bodies and, in my experience, no matter what they are called their loose fitting sleeves offer no average bullet concentricity/accuracy advantage over conventional seaters, including Lee's.

Reloader hopes of correcting tilted bullets by starting seating and progressively turning the case while slowly seating deeper sounds good but, in my measured experience, that's hopeless. I've found that a bullet that starts canted continues canted because seating stems are simply not stiff enough or tightly fitted enough to correct an already deformed neck-to-bullet junction.

I find that Lee's simple Dead Length Seaters - used correctly - perform at the top levels of average concentricity of all conventional seaters (ie, everything but Forster and Redding). Anyone who wants to challenge me about that first needs to do his own concentricity tests on a good number of dies while using known good cases.

I choose the best individual sizer and best individual seater I can find for each cartridge I load for (they rarely come from the same die box) and I don't care what color or how shiney they are. Then I select and process my best cases to make my best rifle ammo.

A lot of careful work goes into my load development too; perfect dies and perfect cases filled with lousy loads equals perfect ammo that produces lousy accuracy, every time.

Used properly, I find no average difference in the target performance of handgun dies.

Bottom line: Determined individual delusions aside, accuracy can't be bought across a counter in a single color box at any price. All of our dies are usually well made (yeah, manufacturing mistakes do get made but if we get a defective tool and don't contact the maker to fix it, it's our fault, not his) and they all give us good to very good performance.

But no single die set, or press, or anything else, can make ammo that stacks holes in a target unless the firearm, the reloader, the range, the shooting bench AND the shooter are all good enough for that; few are. Few rifles have the capacity to make bug hole groups and the loose nut behind the recoil pad matters too.

Micrometer seating die stems are impressive to look at but they do nothing for the finished product, all they do is make it easier for the user to rapidly obtain a specific OAL. I have a few mic-head seaters and find I really don't need 'em but seems a lot of people do, so paying for high priced micrometer stems is a choice the individual buyer needs to make for himself. (I am a handloader, not a "set a die once, lock the set screw and forget it" reloader. Cases work harden and change slightly as they are reused so I set my dies exactly where I want them each time they get used.)

[onelight]

Good post 1hole

[DonH]

One poster said, "Ask what size groups they are shooting." This is akin to an old adage from racing, "The Bullsh*t stops when the green flag drops"! A military rife chambered to reliably chamber grungy ammo will not notice what brand/quality dies your rounds are loaded in. Other factors like fit to the chaber/throat/ease probably matter more. I think this also applies tho to a lesser degree in mass produced rifle chambers. When entering the realm of rifles built for top level benchrest competitors and to only a bit lower degree rifles used by top level across-the-course and long range competitors, EVERYTHIG matters! Even there only a small percentage of shooters will detect minute changes. This "principle" was demonstrated to me by high level NRA 2700 pistol shooters shooting smaller groups one-handed than the same gun produced when fired from Ransom rest. Some have got it; most of us not so much.
The foregoing does not mean I should not use Redding or Forster dies if that makes me more CONFIDENT in my loading/shooting. Nor does it mean others are wrong for using only Lee. That's their choice, just don't be poking me if I prefer something else. But before making too-extree statements go to a national BR or long range match ad see how many high finishers use your brand of choice.
Another principle I have learned the hard way, "Just because I can't do a thing does not mean noone can do it!"

[welderboy44]

I am not a great shot, but i sure like pulling the trigger. I only load pistol rounds and Lee dies have worked great for me. I have Lee, RCBS and Hornady in 45 colt since that is my favorite cartridge to shoot. All 3 brands work fine for my lack of shooting prowess. I usually go back to the Lee dies for the ease of using the powder thru expanding die on my Lee Classic Turret press. Since I know my limitations pulling the trigger, I am satisfied with results from all 3 brands. I own 4 Lee presses and one old Pacific single stage. Sometimes I like to use my Lee cast iron single stage just to slow down and enjoy myself. I own 5 Lee pistol molds and am totally satisfied with those. I am a bullet powdercoater.
I would like to say thank you for all the knowledge from all of the folks that contribute here. I have learned so much just by being quiet and reading y'alls posts. Thanks for letting me join and learn.

[USSR]

Happily living a Lee-free existence.;-)

Don

[onelight]

What switched me to Lee dies for my handgun loading was loading on Lee Progressive presses I wanted to use the auto disk PM on the 1000 so at first I bought just the Lee neck expanding through powder die to use with my RCBS
and Lyman 3 die sets and loaded on those for many years when I switched to a progressive that would accept 4 dies for separate seating and crimp I already had used the carbide FCD on 9 mm and wanted to use that die on some other auto pistol rounds so I ordered a 4 die pistol set for .40 after using them I found I preferred the way the bullet seating depth adjustment on the seating die and crimp adjustment on the FCD worked I also liked the pro auto disk powder measure especially on the LCT press and I discovered that what I loaded shot just as well for me as what I loaded on anything else so I have for the most part replaced all my other brands with Lee for hand gun.
Almost all my rifle loading is on a single stage press now with the exception of 223 and I use Lee ,rcbs ,Lyman and Redding because that is what I have. I have loaded a little on a Dillon and the Dillon dies have some nice features and seem to be well made as does all Dillon equipment I have used.
They all work and there are things I like and don't like about most brands . Some of the cartridges I load on progressive or the turret press I use mixed brands of dies in the stations to get the results I want.
If you want some of the nicest dies made get the Redding if you want the most bang for your buck get the Lee at the range with 9 mm and 45 colt you are way better shot than I am if you see a difference on paper .

[1hole]

Don, if you're happy without Lee, I'm happy for you. ;)

[bedbugbilly]

Chevy sedan - $22,000.00 Mercedes Benz - $65,000.00. They'll both get you to the same destination.

You mention 9mm and then 45 Colt. I use the Lee 4 die set for loading 9mm - never have had an issue with the dies or the finished product. 45 Colt is about one of the easiest cartridges to load IMHO. My set of dies for that is a hodgepodge - a Lee carbide FL die - a Lyman M die neck expander - a Lyman DA seamier/crimp for a roll crimp - if I want a taper crimp, I use an old CH 45 ACP taper crimp die. All I load is my cast - .452 or .454 depending on the mold I'm casting in. I FL size my 45 Colt/45 Schofield brass if new Starline or "range brass" that I have purchased and after shooting, just neck size them the length of the seating depth - they all shoot very well.

Boils down to personal preference I guess and how much you want to spend?

[HangFireW8]

I'd rather ask them what size groups they are shooting. ;)Once they throw away the groups with unexplained flyers, you get a useless answer. ;)

[pcmacd]

Insult me if you will.
My experience of Lee dies will not change.
Lee is a INEXPENSIVE way to start. I've even bought a Lee die set in the past. A set for .32S&W, they were a mix of .32ACP & .32S&W Long. They were too long to crimp a bullet into the case.
Called Lee C.S. ; they suggested I BUY a .32ACP Taper Crimp die. Wasted more money on that. It WAS TOO SHORT TO CRIMP also.
I even tried their fcd. Too bad I bought a .44-40 and Lee put a .44Mag into the package. Lee C.S. didn't believe me and refused an exchange.
Fortunetly GRAF & SONS took it back. But had no .44-40 fcd in a correctly marked package.

So maybe it is just me, but I have a reason.

And I do use Lee tools, the decapping rod & base in both large and small have given great service for more the 45yrs.
The hand auto prime worked well, until they wore out. Two of them.
The RCBS version has lasted 30+yrs.

Their warranty stinks too. Only two years and you better have saved the receipt.

Lee has replaced the decap rod on my "unbreakable" decap die at least a half dozen times. A friend gave me the Lee 10# bottom pour pot. It rusted out; Lee replaced the pot insert for free. Nobody has ever enquired about a receipt.

They really do irritate me, though when they tell users of their 6PPC die set to "drill out their flash holes" so the decap rod will fit.... They don't know squat about the 6PPC if they are making that recommendation!

[charlie b]

Lee was not a benchrest guy so not surprised to see they lack the knowledge in that area.

If you are loading for 6PPC I'd expect to see a set with Wilson, Forster and/or Redding competition dies. Along with coax and arbor presses. I've seen a guy shoot well at a bench rest match with Lee stuff, but, it isn't that common. When my 6BRA barrel gets in the que I will probably go with the Forster custom full length die and Wilson seater.

[Texas by God]

I like the features of Lee's handgun dies- like the way a Lyman 55 fits in the PTE die with a little electrical tape on the threads. Or a Lee funnel if you're using Lee powder scoops. Or like Lee intended- an Auto Disk measure. I've never had a bad Lee die set. Even the RGB dies for rifle have been great and they were $20 for the set at the most.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[charlie b]

Once they throw away the groups with unexplained flyers, you get a useless answer. ;)

If you question the voracity of what is posted, then when someone measures concentricity to .001" you get a useless answer as well.

[prs]

When my Lee equipment fails, I will toss it and get something else. Has not happened yet, but only loading since 1976. I do have some other brands of dies as lead bullets have some special needs.

prs

[Taterhead]

not exactly what your asking but, if you can find Lyman deluxe carbide 4 die set in black box they are excellent and include "M" die. the difference in lee sizing die is center stem primer punch is held by friction rather than threaded.

Good advice, but I would add that Redding and RCBS expanders are also M profile expanders.

Regarding the Lee de-cap assemblies, that is one "feature" that is a major turnoff for me. In theory, it is supposed to give way if encountering a Berdan-primered brass. In practice it doesn't really work. It shouldn't take patience and two wrenches to torque down a simple de-cap assembly.

[ddixie884]

I'm going to give my opinion and it is worth just what you paid for it. I use a few lee dies and I am happy with the results I get. I'm really glad I could buy Lee .455 Eley dies for cheap. I also appreciate the better finish in and out of the few more expensive dies I have been able to accumulate. I am really glad useful dies are available to beginners and folks on a budget. We live in a great country and are free to make our own decisions............

[oldhenry]

I hesitate to opine: I don't like controversy, but here goes.

I only have 1 Lee die set :.270 collet die & it works well.

Every rifle die set otherwise (different brands) has a Redding neck die. In the past I've owned Redding bushing type dies & have used Redding bushings in Wilson hand dies with complete satisfaction.

However: for handgun loading I'd never, ever recommend Redding dies if you plan to use cast boolits. Redding makes great stuff, but they have a fantastic misunderstanding of handgun loading with cast boolits. Their stuff is so good that they can't believe there is a problem. It's like dealing with someone that speaks another language. The problem is the person with the problem......surely it can't be the Redding product.

I load cast boolits exclusively for handguns & use Dillon dies (except for that 1 Redding set (now altered). The Dillon feature of different seating shapes & ease of cleaning is hard to beat + you could buy 2 Dillon sets for the price of the Redding (also no hassle if you have a problem).

I didn't intend to step on any toes.

Henry

[onelight]

Good post oldhenry you told what you like and why and what you don't and why I find that very helpful.

[1hole]

Henry, I don't think you've stepped on anyone. But I've read your post four times and still haven't a clue what you think Redding's handgun dies don't do and what it is that Redding's Customer service can't understand about cast bullets. ???

[oldhenry]

Henry, I don't think you've stepped on anyone. But I've read your post four times and still haven't a clue what you think Redding's handgun dies don't do and what it is that Redding's Customer service can't understand about cast bullets. ???

In '95 I bought my 1st. Dillon 550 & got a Redding "Pro Series" die set (designed for use in a progressive press) in .38 spec/,357 mag. The sizing/de-prime die works OK. The flaring is handled by the Dillon. The seating die is the problem as it promptly removes the flare as the boolit enters the seating die. As a result I was getting shaved lead (big time) to such an extent that the accumulated lead became dents if progressed on to the crimp die. No amount of adjusting of the die body would prevent this from happening. Removal of the Redding seat die & replacing with a '60s era Lyman seating die solved the problem.

Phone call to Redding & sent die back to Redding, Redding returns die: the die still does the same thing. Phone call to Redding 2nd. time & they tell me that the die is within specs. Return die 2nd. time: die arrives back to me with a notation "altered to customers request". It now works OK: however I replaced the crimp die with a '60 era Lyman crimp die (much better).

Another member recently posted the exact same problem with a Redding .38 spec/.357 Mag. die set except Redding refused to alter his seating die as it was "within specs." ( see Chuck Perry's 06/06/20 post "Redding micrometer pistol seater shaving lead" under Reloading Equipment.)

While we're on the subject I'll share another experience with Redding CS: this involves a 7X57 die set. I bought 200 new commercial empties & upon the 1st. bullet seating the bullet fell down into the powder (by gravity). I called Redding & they tell me that most people load the 7X57 with military brass which is thicker (they didn't list 2 types of 7X57 dies). I returned the die set to Redding (my cost) & when it was returned the exact same thing happened when I tried to seat the bullet.

In my heart of hearts I'm convince that they returned the same die to me (I wish I had marked it before returning). Die returned to Redding again (my cost) & when it was returned the 2nd. time it works properly. No apology from Redding. No offer to reimburse my costs involved.

As I stated in my original post: they make good stuff. In fact their products are so well made that I question if they have a CS person at all.

These two instances are the total of my contact with Redding & the total of die problems that I've ever had with all die brands.

[fcvan]

I bought Lee dies when I first started out. I learned from Dad on a Pacific press with RCBS dies. Casting is another subject but most of my molds are Lee. I also have SAECO, Lyman, and an RCBS. Back to reloading, mostly dies.

I have never had to return a set of dies, polish machine marks from dies, and other than stupid mistakes on my part, never had dies fail. De-capping pins break sometimes, especially when you don't ensure they are not Berdan cases or range gunk stuck inside. I use a Lee universal de-capping die on a dedicated press so don't gunk up my turret press.

I have loaded so many rounds on a Lee turret press that I rebuilt my first one before they ran out of replacement parts. Right before they discontinued the previous turret press, I bought a second one (two houses, reload both places) at a discount. It was supposedly a 'second' but I couldn't find the defect.

I like the turret press as I can set the dies and only have to do a quick re-check before loading a different caliber. When I started powder coating I bought a bunch of push through dies. Very convenient to have several push through dies on one turret. I make my own gas checks and those dies are on a different turret.

My brother is totally RCBS. He had a girlfriend in college who bought him a starter setup and his is loyal. The only RCBS dies I have were given to me, 257 Roberts. These dies are in a paper box, wrapped in the wax like paper they came in when new. Thing is, I already have Lee 257 Roberts dies, I bought them to reload 257 for the buddy who later gave me the RCBS dies.

My buddy asked if I could reload to the factory loads his rifle devoured. He had 200 cases as He'd saved every piece of brass he'd fired. Well, the loads, with Lee dies, printed as good as the factory loads he preferred. It cost me a bit for the powder, primers, and Sierra bullets but He has given me 4 times that amount in range pick up brass. It seems his Dad goes to a shooting place and picks up everything several times a week. 3 or 4 times a year, my buddy calls me to get the brass. I usually ask him how much .380 ACP he needs, yes, loaded with cast boolits from a Lee mold, from a Lee pot, and loaded on a Lee press with Lee dies. I like Lee as they are affordable and have served me well.

I mostly load for pistol, but in the last 10 years I started loading cast for rifle. The only bullets I loaded were for .223, before I started shooting cast, 257 Roberts for a buddy, and lathe turned HPBT for .308 after California became lead free freaks statewide. Cast boolits in .308 shoot so darned well. If I were to get into 'extreme' precision I would have custom dies to match the chamber on a custom rifle, but that really isn't my thing. However, 'minute of soda can' off-hand at 100 yards, is my thing. Cast boolits loaded with the dies/equipment I own, is my thing.

I am however thinking of collecting antique reloading equipment just because it looks cool, why the heck not. I've seen some pre 1900 equipment here and there at auctions and estate sales, and I guarantee that none of it is Lee.