speed?

[white eagle]

In a 44 magnum with boolits over 250 gr and under 325 gr how much do you think speed,or pushing the load has in the accuracy of the load.
Do you find that a 44 mag does better in accuracy when you get the speed up?
would a load with a 315 gr Lee be more accurate with a heavy load of W296 or a lighter load of say HS-6 or Unique?
can't seem to get the accuracy I want at 50 yds with the unique loads from 8-5 to 11.0gr's.

[dtknowles]

44 Russian was known for accuracy in its day. I assume you are talking about a pistol. I don't know that speed is the issue it could be light loads in the big case are the issue. It might be position sensitivity. I find I shoot lighter loads more accurately as they are less sensitive to how you handle the recoil and grip position. Lighter loads are more sensitive to follow through as with the longer barrel time, if you relax too quickly you cause dispersion.

Tim

[44magLeo]

I don't shoot boolits that heavy in my 44's. A 265 gr bullet passes clear through everything I shoot it at.
I've had good accuracy from lows speeds of around 500 fps up to 1900 fps in my Marlin rifle.
I select a hardness that matches the speed. Low speeds soft boolit, High speed harder boolit.
My high speed allot runs about 14.5 BHN or so.
My heavy loads I use 296 or 2400. Mid range loads get Unique. Light get Bullseye.
Leo

[Mal Paso]

Barrel twist and length? There are 1/40 twist 44 barrels that don't like big bullets.

296 needs enough barrel length. 6 inch is too short IMHO.

My go to is the 260g #503 clone, 20g 2400 in 4 and 6 inch 1/20 twist revolvers. Elmer's load is no longer listed but I got an ES of 10 fps across 2 5 shot strings with it. Consistent burn isn't everything but the sweet spot is more important with slower powders.

A compressed load of 22g 4759 under the 503 is awesome at 1300 fps and I'm hording my last 200.

[Rainier]

In my limited experience the Lee 310-RF likes to be pushed kinda hard. I played around with W231 and didn’t have any luck. My shooting partner tried surpassed subsonic loads with that boolit and they went sideways through the target at 25 yards. I found a pretty full case of 4227 for a velocity of 1260 fps out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk was very accurate. I haven’t tried W296 simply because the 4227 load does everything I need.

I had similar experience with the 45 Colt and the Lee 452-300 RF. I push it hard with W296 out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk and it does very well. Try to shoot it slow and accuracy goes south.

Good luck and let us know what you sort out

[44Blam]

I shoot Accurate 43-240A/AG pretty much exclusively. (Why mess with something that works???)

In my Ruger Redhawk with 7" barrel, heavies are 296 or 2400 (around 1400 fps) and mid is Unique (around 1100 fps) and my cat sneeze are trail boss (around 800 fps).

[Ozark mike]

The Marlins and henrys with slower twists have to be pushed harder to get the rpms up. For faster twists pistols and long guns slower or faster doesn't matter

[white eagle]

seems like I always forget some of the details
my concern is with a 5.5"Ruger Redhawk
I am trying to get good consistent 50 yard accuracy
that seems to be evading me

[LUCKYDAWG13]

With my 10" 44 magnum Contender barrel and a 260 gr G/C MP boolit with 7.5 gr of Unique under it Im hitting my 10" gong at 100 yards
and my 6" gong easily I would guess there going around 850 fps

[Tripplebeards]

I believe a little harder alloy helps with top speeds. My tightest group with 7.8 bh is 1600 fps out of my 77/44. My 80/20 plus 15% pewter with a BH of 15.4 shot great at 1750 fps and also with 23.8 grains of h110. I didn't run the 23.8 grain load across my crony but I'm guessing it was around 1850fps out of my rifle. The softer alloy shot sub moa at 100 yards and opened up at higher speeds. The 15.4 bh averaged 1.25" at 23.8 grains on h110 and sub moa with 21.1 grains of lil gun
I GC and PC all the boolits and sized a thousand over. At lower speeds my groups opened up.

[Mal Paso]

seems like I always forget some of the details
my concern is with a 5.5"Ruger Redhawk
I am trying to get good consistent 50 yard accuracy
that seems to be evading me

I have the 4 inch, they are 1/20 twist, 310 should not be a problem. I have not gone over 260g though, mostly Keith's.

I never shot well with the factory grips, Patchmyer Decelerators have a longer pull and fit my hand better.

Timing? All the primer hits dead center?

[dtknowles]

seems like I always forget some of the details
my concern is with a 5.5"Ruger Redhawk
I am trying to get good consistent 50 yard accuracy
that seems to be evading me

Yes, you still have left out many important details.

Do you size to match the cylinder throat?

Are your throats tighter than the barrel?

Is the barrel choked at the frame?

What alloy are you using?

What lube are you using or do you powder coat?

How are you supporting the gun when you are accuracy testing?

Do you weigh or throw you powder charges?

What kind of crimp/die do you use?

Do the shots string horizontally or vertically?

Do most of the shots cluster with just a single flyer?

What do you consider good 50 yard accuracy?

Tim

[white eagle]

yes all hits are dead center
I have got a taller front sight that hepped a bunch
I was using a alloy of 3-1 lino lead with 8 and 10.5 gr of unique to start
switched to 50/50 alloy and 16-1 with 19 gr of 296 one pc'd and one not
haven't test them yet
I mainly shoot Keith's in my gun as well but have been experimenting with heavier boolits
I know iron sights are harder to get to shoot accurately but I am having a heck of a time
getting any accuracy I would consider good hunting accuracy
I can only hit my 10" steel 3 out of 6 times at 50 yds if I am lucky but that won't due for hunting

[Tripplebeards]

I put a red dot on my 8 3/4" anaconda when I bought it back in the 90's. I can shoot first sized groups with all six rounds free hand at 75 yards along with j words when I use to shoot it all the time. I'll have to try cast in it.

[megasupermagnum]

According to my books, 10.5 gr Unique is rather strong charge for the 310 gr bullet. I'm not seeing anything specifically for a 300-310gr with Unique, but by comparison 10 to 10.5 gr is likely to be a good maximum.

To answer your question, the fastest load with the Lee 310gr shot the best in mine, which is also a 5.5" Redhawk. I had been loading 21.5 gr H110, but it seems 22 gr might be a little better yet. It can be hard to tell, as the recoil of this round is so fierce that it is tough to sit down and shoot 20+ good shots to compare. This load shoots average 3 1/2" 6 shot groups at 50 yards. Or better put, that how good I shoot it, and it was the best I've tried of that bullet.

As strange as it sounds, I've been leaning to even heavier bullets because they don't seem to kick as bad. The above stated load runs close to 1300 fps. I've only just began, but it seems the 330 grain SSK shoots as good, but ran only 1100 fps with Bluedot. Some have even gone as heavy as 405 grain, and claim the recoil is even less.

That's not to sway you from the Lee 310gr so much, as that bullet is a purpose built hunting bullet that is a balance between wounding and penetration. The SSK I mentioned is all about penetration. I hunt with a HP Keith bullet myself.

So what kind of accuracy are you looking for?

[white eagle]

sorry I used the unique with 255 gr Keith's
hunting accuracy for me is 4" with irons at least
smaller would be better but if I can aim at a spot and come within
a heart sized area around it I would be happy the size of a cd @ 50yds would be nice
for a 6 shot group

[megasupermagnum]

Definitely give the 296 a try. Lyman lists a max of 19.5 gr at 1.710" OAL, which I think is the bottom crimp groove. I've worked up to 22 grains with no problems at all crimped in the second groove. I also found that Federal standard primers provided better accuracy than CCI magnum's. Some have claimed ignition problems, but mine showed superior consistency of around 20 fps ES at around 10 degrees F with the standard primers.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Generally with .357 and .44 mag revolvers I found that they seemed to shoot hot loads best. But that was with j-word bullets.

[jsizemore]

In my limited experience the Lee 310-RF likes to be pushed kinda hard. I played around with W231 and didn’t have any luck. My shooting partner tried surpassed subsonic loads with that boolit and they went sideways through the target at 25 yards. I found a pretty full case of 4227 for a velocity of 1260 fps out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk was very accurate. I haven’t tried W296 simply because the 4227 load does everything I need.

I had similar experience with the 45 Colt and the Lee 452-300 RF. I push it hard with W296 out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk and it does very well. Try to shoot it slow and accuracy goes south.

Good luck and let us know what you sort out

Could you , PLEASE, get us a video of that 4227 load being fired. Especially from the side.

[white eagle]

ol 44 Man used to always say you need to push these
not meant for lite loads guess I forgot that

[Thumbcocker]

FWIW. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200706/ebe4efd3199b35e829a80f5f283ed2b7.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[white eagle]

It seems that pushing them worked
I shot the best groups I have in a long time
19.0 gr w 296 with a 315 gr Lee lit up by a wlp
I tried the 255 gr Keith's but those did not group that well
I had started out with the bottom charge of 2400 and that wasn't
very good as far as groups went but there is room for improvement on that one

[Rainier]

Could you , PLEASE, get us a video of that 4227 load being fired. Especially from the side.
Here is a still from a video I made July 4th 2016 - I'm not 100% positive its the 4227 load sadly, I just don't remember. I'll see if I can't get another video made this weekend.

264543

[megasupermagnum]

Here is a still from a video I made July 4th 2016 - I'm not 100% positive its the 4227 load sadly, I just don't remember. I'll see if I can't get another video made this weekend.

264543

With all those little flaming bits, there is a good chance that is 4227. I like that powder, it performs well with a strangely soft recoil pulse. Unfortunately I never seem to quite get the accuracy of other powders. It is fantastic in 357 maximum.

[white eagle]

I agree about the recoil for whatever reason it's not a heavy hitter
I use it in my 475 Linebaugh and 500 Linebaugh I do get pretty good
accuracy with it though

[Rainier]

…a strangely soft recoil pulse.
Is a perfect way to describe 4227.

As for accuracy, thank goodness, 4227 and the Lee 315gr FN are the best combo I’ve found in my RedHawk. At 1260 fps that’s about all I ever want to shoot and its safe to say it should probably stop a cantankerous charging cement mixer.

Also, I’m at least 95% sure that picture is 4227 but I have 2 videos from that night one I believe was with 2400 and the other 4227. I’ll still try to get another this weekend just because its fun to do.

[Mal Paso]

It seems that pushing them worked
I shot the best groups I have in a long time
19.0 gr w 296 with a 315 gr Lee lit up by a wlp
I tried the 255 gr Keith's but those did not group that well
I had started out with the bottom charge of 2400 and that wasn't
very good as far as groups went but there is room for improvement on that one

Depending on the batch I have had very erratic performance with 2400 at some of the listed start loads. Speer says not below 18g now for a 250g Keith. I stay at the new listed max, 20g which burns almost as well as Keith's load.:D

[white eagle]

I have an old Speer manual that lists Elmer's load
I have tried it in a different revo and it worked well in that gun
not sure or remember the accuracy but I think it was around 1500 fps
from a 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk

[Mal Paso]

I had to look it up to be sure but I got 1500 fps from my 4 inch Colt, Lyman 429421, and Elmer's load of 2400 listed in the log as "New Batch", no lot number. That same "warm" batch made 1608 fps from a 6" S&W 629-6 except NOE 429421. Water dropped WW+Tin with Glen F's Lube, KVB Primer.

I lost track years ago at about 120 Lbs as to how much 2400 I've burned.

[white eagle]

Shoot thats a lot of 2400
I thought I was bad at 32 # of h110

[fredj338]

yes all hits are dead center
I mainly shoot Keith's in my gun as well but have been experimenting with heavier boolits
I know iron sights are harder to get to shoot accurately but I am having a heck of a time
getting any accuracy I would consider good hunting accuracy
I can only hit my 10" steel 3 out of 6 times at 50 yds if I am lucky but that won't due for hunting

Ok let me ask the $1000 question, can you hit the same plate with another bullet wt/load? Test off the bench. I have no issue getting 3" groups at 100y off a bench with my RBHB & 2x scope running 270-310gr bullet with 2400 at about 1250fps. Pretty far off max.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok let me ask the $1000 question, can you hit the same plate with another bullet wt/load? Test off the bench. I have no issue getting 3" groups at 100y off a bench with my RBHB & 2x scope running 270-310gr bullet with 2400 at about 1250fps. Pretty far off max.

1250 fps with the Lee 310 grain is moving pretty good, I'd have to think that's near max unless you have a very long barrel.

[murf205]

FWIW. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200706/ebe4efd3199b35e829a80f5f283ed2b7.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

My success is pretty close to Thumbcockers. I loaded 20.5 gr H110and CCI mag primer for 1230 fps average with the 310 Lee and a gascheck out of my 4" 629. I has a LOT of torque but the load is dead nutz accurate and really consistent velocity spreads. That boolit like to run hard. 22.5 grs of H110 goes 1485 fps (ouch) from my 9" SRH and 5 of them will snuggle into 1" at 50yds when I do my part. It is as powerful a 44 mag load as I will ever need and it never gets shot in my S&W guns. 44Man was right (he usually was) about running them hard.

[LAH]

I had to look it up to be sure but I got 1500 fps from my 4 inch Colt, Lyman 429421, and Elmer's load of 2400 listed in the log as "New Batch", no lot number. That same "warm" batch made 1608 fps from a 6" S&W 629-6 except NOE 429421. Water dropped WW+Tin with Glen F's Lube, KVB Primer.

I lost track years ago at about 120 Lbs as to how much 2400 I've burned.

Amazing.

[Alstep]

I bought a used 5 1/2" Redhawk a while back, tried all kinds of loads with so-so results. Then someone here mentioned Greendot and groups shrank. I have 2 Arsenal molds; 432-210 / 6.5 gr. Greendot (RCBS rotor #15) and 429-421 / 7.1 gr. Greendot (rotor #16) , CCI primers, sized .432, 50/50 Pb/WW, NRA lube. I shoot 30 shot groups @ 30 yards and get 3" or less groups. 2 hands over a rest and 78 year old eyes. These 2 loads don't beat me up and are a pleasure to shoot. Have no idea what the velocity is. Try it at your own risk!

[cp1969]

I've used the 429421 and 357421 and haven't had real good accuracy with either. The RCBS 150 gr SWC shoots much better in the .357 but as yet have no replacement for the 429421. When I do, the 4-cavity 429421 is going up for sale.

[megasupermagnum]

I've used the 429421 and 357421 and haven't had real good accuracy with either. The RCBS 150 gr SWC shoots much better in the .357 but as yet have no replacement for the 429421. When I do, the 4-cavity 429421 is going up for sale.

With the 358429 try 10 grains of Bluedot. If that doesn't shoot at least half decent, something is either wrong with the gun, or how you are loading ammo.

[44magLeo]

Back in the 70's and 80's I had a Ruger SBH as well as a 5.5 " Red Hawk.
I had a Lyman 429421 mold that dropped COWW boolits at 262 grs. I water dropped them when running max loads. They measured around .432. That's how I shot them. Couldn't afford any sizing equipment at the time. Lubed with a Lyman or RCBS lube by hand. Later on when I found Lee's Liquid Alox I switched to that.
When wanted to get serious about group I would set on the ground, lean up against something handy, Brought my knees up, gripped the gun with both hands and laid it across my knees so my wrists were on my knees. Rock solid position.
Both shot well with a load of 21.5 grs of 2400 using a standard primer, usually CCI. No chrony at the time so I can't give those specs.
With that hold both guns could put all 6 chambers into one ragged hole I could cover with a quarter. If I shot 6 rounds out of any one chamber the group was a bit smaller. The SBH had one chamber that threw a bit of a flier. 5 in one not to ragged hole the odd chamber threw it's round out by about a 1/16 ".
At one range I shot at There was a fence line about 250 yards out. Some one hung a car flywheel out on that fence. Standing up and shooting off hand holding the gun with both hands I could hit that flywheel with all six rounds.
I use to hunt rabbits with those two guns. Never hurt no meat. Out to about 75 yards head shots were easy.
On deer I once jumped one up in a swamp and he headed almost straight away, at a bit over 50 yards out the boolit hit him high on rear left hip. and exited on the right front shoulder. Breaking down both the rear and front legs and passing through the top of the paunch a bit below his spine. Through the top of the lungs.
He piled up pretty quick.
After that I backed the load down a bit. Dropped the powder to 17.5 grs. and stopped water dropping the boolits.
These shot very well too. The recoil was a bit easier to handle. I never did recover a boolit from a game animal.
I did shoot some into block of wood before I split them for fire wood.
With the W/D COWW and 21.5 gr load I got about 12 to 14 " of penetration with little boolit deformation.
The lighter load I got about 8 to 10 " of penetration with almost perfectly mushroomed boolits.
The blocks I shot into the end mostly maple, some were beech.
I also shot a mid range load of the same boolit with 8.5 grs of Unique. It didn't shoot quite as tight but was for fun to shoot.
Leo

[Taterhead]

I lost track years ago at about 120 Lbs as to how much 2400 I've burned.

Heh, heh, heh. That's cool. Some fun along the way, no doubt.

[murf205]

I've used the 429421 and 357421 and haven't had real good accuracy with either. The RCBS 150 gr SWC shoots much better in the .357 but as yet have no replacement for the 429421. When I do, the 4-cavity 429421 is going up for sale.

What load and what gun are you having the bad luck with the 429421? I have had great accuracy with 16.6 grs of 2400 in all of my 44 mag's. If you cannot get that boolit to shoot accurately, do what megasupermagnum said, check the gun and/or your technique.