357 case in 38 special revolver

[lukewmtdew]

Is there a way to use a 357 case in a 38 special revolver for use in homemade shot shells?

[Scrounge]

Is there a way to use a 357 case in a 38 special revolver for use in homemade shot shells?
Neck it down and DO NOT overload it. Probably not worth it. You can do 38 shot shells in a 38S&W, which is shorter than 38 special, and it's not a problem to do shot shells in a 38 special case, either.

[John McCorkle]

Neck it down and DO NOT overload it. Probably not worth it. You can do 38 shot shells in a 38S&W, which is shorter than 38 special, and it's not a problem to do shot shells in a 38 special case, either.How does one neck down a 357 case?

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[Scrounge]

How does one neck down a 357 case?

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Neck size with a die for a smaller case. 9mm might work for 357, though it won't be much of a neck. You can make sizing dies with something called a drill bushing. https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=drill+bushing Bore out a socket in an old die, or a piece of allthread, or whatever, press in the appropriate size of bushing. Or bore your own. Lathe helps, but a drill press will work. Patient guy with a file can get there, too. If you want to do it badly enough, you can figure a way.

There are books on forming brass for wildcats or obsolete cartridges. Considerable discussion right here at Cast Boolits.

[John McCorkle]

Neck size with a die for a smaller case. 9mm might work for 357, though it won't be much of a neck. You can make sizing dies with something called a drill bushing. https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=drill+bushing Bore out a socket in an old die, or a piece of allthread, or whatever, press in the appropriate size of bushing. Or bore your own. Lathe helps, but a drill press will work. Patient guy with a file can get there, too. If you want to do it badly enough, you can figure a way.

There are books on forming brass for wildcats or obsolete cartridges. Considerable discussion right here at Cast Boolits.Yeah I gotta get a lathe...I have so many things I could use one for.

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[oso]

You don't need anything fancy. I just run a 357 mag case into my 38 Spec crimp die after loading powder, wad, shot and topping with an inverted gas check. Works and on spec! You can get elaborate using a 356 size die or 9mm or 38 super crimp die but you have to watch your neck length.

[Scrounge]

Yeah I gotta get a lathe...I have so many things I could use one for.

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IMNSHO EVERYBODY should have a lathe. ;) You can get a small one from Harbor Freight for about $700. You can get a Monarch 10EE brand new for around $100K. You can get the modern version of the South Bend Heavy 10L for about $10K from Grizzly.com. You can get any random lathe-like object from Craigslist, and maybe even a real lathe.

I got my first lathe, an HF 7x10 in 2008 for $369. 2016 I found an Atlas TH42 10x24 lathe, vintage 1946, for $750. They tend to be a little higher now, like everything else. About a year and a half ago I got a very used, and left in a leaky barn for 5 years restoration project SB Heavy 10L vintage 1941, for $950. One in good running condition on Ebay is closer to $3K last I looked.

For reloading, the 7x10 (7"is largest possible diameter to turn x 10" between centers) will work pretty well. You can make small hardware, firing pins, peep sight apertures, washers, other small items. You can do some gunsmithing on it, Maybe ream a chamber, but it's pretty limited. The TH42 has many of the same limitations, though it's about 24" between centers. Both have about a 3/4" hole through the spindle, and use Morse Taper 3 accessories. Both have tailstocks that use MT2 accessories. I could turn a short barrel between centers, ream a chamber, and things like that on the Atlas. The South Bend has a 1-3/8" hole through the spindle, and about 30" between centers. It's bigger, heavier, and stiffer. In machine tools, this is good. Helps to be a fair mechanic if you're going to do stuff the way I did, but if you have $$ ( or are good at shopping), you can buy new & good and ready to go. And despite the other two lathes, I'm keeping the 7x10. It's handy size. Last I looked, there is nothing like it made in America for less than $10K. It won't handle a large project, but it will handle a lot of the small pieces that go in a large project. You can buy a lot of hardware to do almost anything. But sometimes absolutely no one makes what you need to do something. With the right tools you can make anything you can conceive.

Hi! My name's Bill, and I'm a toolohaulic. ;) Guns are tools, to, btw!

[jonp]

Don't "neck it down". Trim to length for your revolver then load it up

[Scrounge]

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=handloader%27s+manual+of+cartridge+conversions&ref=nb_sb_noss

There are paper editions (some with STUPID! prices) and a Kindle edition for $20.99, and you can also find it at https://www.scribd.com/search?content_type=tops&page=1&query=the%20handloader%27s%20manual%20of%20cartrid ge%20conversions&language=1 which is a subscription service, costs about $10 a month.

Regardless, look at the Kindle version, and read the comments, there's some good info there both on shortcomings of the book, and some workarounds for some of them.

[Dapaki]

I make both the .38 and .357 'snake shot' shells, the only difference is the weight of the shot. 2 questions, why not just use the .38 brass? What are you going to shoot with these shells?

[rancher1913]

can be done the same as using 357max for 357mag shotshells, there is a thread on that.

[Scrounge]

Don't "neck it down". Trim to length for your revolver then load it up

I loaded shot cartridges for my old Iver Johnson Breaktop 38S&W in the mid 70's, then in 38 special in the 80's, and shot them in .38/.357Mag pistols. The shot capsule was the same. I'd advise just using .38 special, personally. If you WANT to use .357 mag, that's another story, and that's what OP asked about. To each his own, as they say. I'd guess he's trying to avoid stuff spraying out the cylinder gap or jumping from the chamber to the rifling. Shot an acquaintance's little deringer-thing that was chambered for .410 shotshell & .45LC. Had about 1-3/4" gap between the .45LC cartridge and the short little bit of rifling in the barrel. Wasn't hitting the target with it, so got really close. Like on foot from the target. Still missed the target, but the slug slammed into the cardboard backing and did not penetrate completely. I pulled it out from the hole where it hit sideways. I'm not sure a shot capsule in a .45LC cartridge would have made it out of the pistol. Extreme case. I think that he's trying to eliminate every little bit of possible problem you could have. Someone else in another thread is necksizing 45LC to 44Mag or 44 special, IIRC. I don't suppose it will hurt to play with this.

I suppose I was proselyting lathe ownership, too. ;)

[Dapaki]

"Everybody should have a lathe"
[smilie=p:

[Scrounge]

"Everybody should have a lathe"
[smilie=p:

No! Really? Why would you think that?:mrgreen:

And a milling machine, and welder, and and a whole bunch of cutting stuff... Do it like most people buy guns. Get something you need. Then some stuff to support it. Then more stuff you need. Use it. Learn how to do stuff with it. Practice. Get more stuff....

Yes, it is true that he who dies with the most stuff still dies, but he probably had some fun first! :-D

[lukewmtdew]

I tried resizing the 357 and punch the primer then just sticking it into the 38 the back end of the case was sticking out of the cylinder oh I’d say 1/4 inch? Just was looking to see if there’s an easy way to make snake loads without using a lathe or dinking around a bunch I can’t find those Speer shot cups or else I’d just use those

[besk]

I tried resizing the 357 and punch the primer then just sticking it into the 38 the back end of the case was sticking out of the cylinder oh I’d say 1/4 inch? Just was looking to see if there’s an easy way to make snake loads without using a lathe or dinking around a bunch I can’t find those Speer shot cups or else I’d just use those

Unfortunately, you will need to find a way to reduce the diameter of that last , say 1/4 inch. OSO said above to just set the crimp die for 38 special and run the 357 mag into it. (I would be inclined to do all of this before priming and loading shot.) Also, I would lubricate the case before doing this.
Once reduced it will fire form to the bore size on subsequent shots.

[lukewmtdew]

I was thinking the same thing about making a dummy round

[onelight]

I have seen a gas check seated in the case for a bottom wad and a another crimped over the shot to cap it.
For handgun shot loads with the right parts for the Lee app you could mount a bullet sizing punch on one end to push in the bottom gas check with a shell holder on the other end to control the case , I have not done this but can't think of why it would not work , or if you have the tools you could make a seating punch that would screw into a standard
press to deep seat the gas check . I would think a gas check shot column about the length of a wadcutter bullet might be a starting point.
The shot capsules would probably hold more shot and pattern better , but I have seen articles on building shot loads this way for cases long enough to safely hold a usable amount of shot

[smithnframe]

Trim it!

[Scoutdog99]

I made some rounds for my 38 Special using 357 Max brass. With Max brass, you can get a round that will fit the full length of the cylinder. You will have to trim it down to cylinder length. A regular 357 Mag case will give you a little extra room, but the 357 Max will give you more. I used a 30 Carbine die to neck down the end of the case. The nice thing is the rounds work in both my 38 and 357 so I don’t have to have separate cartridges.

[Adam Helmer]

Trim it!

smithnframe,

+1!!! Of Course, JUST trim the .357 case .125" and WALLA, it works in a .38 Special without the need of a $700 lathe?

Adam

[Scrounge]

smithnframe,

+1!!! Of Course, JUST trim the .357 case .125" and WALLA, it works in a .38 Special without the need of a $700 lathe?

Adam

Silly person! The lathe is to make dies that will put a neck in the brass. EXACTLY the way you want it! And $700 is cheap for a lathe! :) Besides, once you have one, you will find many other things you can do with it.
You can make brass that no one makes, and no existing examples remain if you have a lathe. You can make anything cylindrical, and any length you can get to fit in your lathe. And they make lathes that are 120' long. Not that you could get one of those for $700, but it's principle of the thing. ,)Need a washer exactly .0005" thick? Sure, you can buy them. Or you can take one that's not exactly what you want, and make it so it is. Need one that's .0782" thick and with a .875" inside diameter to set a die in your press exactly right for a cartridge you load a lot of, and don't want to fiddle with the setup every time you need to make more? You can do it. Broke the firing pin on your 1903 Springfield the day before hunting season starts, and you need one RIGHT FREAKING NOW!? You can make one. There are several threads on this board right now with people wanting to put a neck in cartridges. You can do it in a lathe, or use the lathe to make the tooling to do it in your press. Need to thin the neck for a cartridge you're reforming? Likewise.

Currently, I need a Lyman 450 sizing & lubing die for .316 boolits for my 91/30. Shoots fine with boolits sized correctly for the bore. Factory ammo for it won't hit the paper of a full size silhouette at 50 yards. I can order a die custom-made, and wait for it. Or I can make my own.

Bill

[flounderman]

You don't need anything more than some 8 shot and some gaschecks, and elmers glue. You will get better patterns without a shot cup. I loaded .38 special with a fast powder, inverted gas check over the powder, filled it close to the top with shot and crimped another inverted gascheck, and covered the end with elmers glue. You can push the gas check over the powder with a dowel. The snakes I shot with this didn't twich. I shot the first one twice because he never moved. I loaded for velocity, rather than amount of shot, and you aren't going to be shooting more than a few feet.

[John McCorkle]

IMNSHO EVERYBODY should have a lathe. ;) You can get a small one from Harbor Freight for about $700. You can get a Monarch 10EE brand new for around $100K. You can get the modern version of the South Bend Heavy 10L for about $10K from Grizzly.com. You can get any random lathe-like object from Craigslist, and maybe even a real lathe.

I got my first lathe, an HF 7x10 in 2008 for $369. 2016 I found an Atlas TH42 10x24 lathe, vintage 1946, for $750. They tend to be a little higher now, like everything else. About a year and a half ago I got a very used, and left in a leaky barn for 5 years restoration project SB Heavy 10L vintage 1941, for $950. One in good running condition on Ebay is closer to $3K last I looked.

For reloading, the 7x10 (7"is largest possible diameter to turn x 10" between centers) will work pretty well. You can make small hardware, firing pins, peep sight apertures, washers, other small items. You can do some gunsmithing on it, Maybe ream a chamber, but it's pretty limited. The TH42 has many of the same limitations, though it's about 24" between centers. Both have about a 3/4" hole through the spindle, and use Morse Taper 3 accessories. Both have tailstocks that use MT2 accessories. I could turn a short barrel between centers, ream a chamber, and things like that on the Atlas. The South Bend has a 1-3/8" hole through the spindle, and about 30" between centers. It's bigger, heavier, and stiffer. In machine tools, this is good. Helps to be a fair mechanic if you're going to do stuff the way I did, but if you have $$ ( or are good at shopping), you can buy new & good and ready to go. And despite the other two lathes, I'm keeping the 7x10. It's handy size. Last I looked, there is nothing like it made in America for less than $10K. It won't handle a large project, but it will handle a lot of the small pieces that go in a large project. You can buy a lot of hardware to do almost anything. But sometimes absolutely no one makes what you need to do something. With the right tools you can make anything you can conceive.

Hi! My name's Bill, and I'm a toolohaulic. ;) Guns are tools, to, btw!Hi bill, I have been interested in a bench lathe for a while....I have a few business plans not related to firearms at all actually but being able to spool up a sizing die or various parts sure would be nice.

Been looking at lathes from little machine shop...their 7x16 or 8.5x20. not sure if anyone here has any experience with the machines they sell or not. Pros/cons over a H.F? Obviously cost is a difference but not sure where the sweet spot lies for my expected use being pretty frequently (2-3 hours per weekend) and maybe an additional 2-4 hours through the week...and bells and whistles are ok but I'd never get the chance to use them until I get a couple years on the machine and learn the fundamentals really well...alot like reloading starting on a single stage and then seeing the advantage of a progressive.

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[Scrounge]

Hi bill, I have been interested in a bench lathe for a while....I have a few business plans not related to firearms at all actually but being able to spool up a sizing die or various parts sure would be nice.

Been looking at lathes from little machine shop...their 7x16 or 8.5x20. not sure if anyone here has any experience with the machines they sell or not. Pros/cons over a H.F? Obviously cost is a difference but not sure where the sweet spot lies for my expected use being pretty frequently (2-3 hours per weekend) and maybe an additional 2-4 hours through the week...and bells and whistles are ok but I'd never get the chance to use them until I get a couple years on the machine and learn the fundamentals really well...alot like reloading starting on a single stage and then seeing the advantage of a progressive.

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HF buys what you could call "mill run" lathes. LMS buys lathes built to their specifications, and backs them. If a part or a whole lathe turns out to be bad, they'll repair or replace it. Mostly that's not a problem anymore. If you can afford LMS, I'd go ahead and buy it. Better fit and finish, upgraded components, and excellent support. I have bought chucks and some small stuff from them. Grizzly does much the same with theirs. When I got mine, it was $369 from HF, with a 20% off coupon. They no longer allow that for lathes. There is a support group for all the various brands of 7x lathes, https://groups.io/g/7x12MiniLathe. Bunch of good folks there, a few not so good. Lots of help available. My Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 is currently priced at $669, the 7x12 big brother to it is $600, and both of those are plus shipping, though they may have a 7x10 in stock. If you go HF, get the 7x12. I absolutely couldn't afford anything larger, or anything else when I got mine. In lathes, larger is almost always better. From all I've read, but not personal experience, I'd skip the 8" lathes, and go to at least a 9" lathe. Grizzly has some 10" lathes that aren't all that much more than the LMS 7x lathes. They also have lathes specifically intended for gunsmiths, but they're pretty proud of them! ;) First, I'd join the 7x12 group, and while you're at Groups.io, I'd look at some of their other metalworking groups. Fair warning, I own a couple of the others. Look at the comments on the various types and brands of lathes, and figure out what you want to do, and what it takes to do it. Here's a link to some things you can do with a mini-lathe: http://www.packratworkshop.com/pdf/mini%20lathe%20rifles.pdf Go to his home page, and look at the firearms section, and this file is there, with some other useful stuff, too.

A lot of the metalworking groups that were at Yahoo are now at group.io.

HTH!

Bill

PS the 4-screw chuck that is mentioned in the mini-lathe rifles.pdf document is also that firearms section. You don't have to buy all your tooling. Some (quite a bit) you can make.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Trimming the 357 brass would be a waste. Just trim to cylinder length or barely under.

The idea is to form the brass into a smaller sized cylinder that fits inside the area of the cylinder in front of the usual case mouth area. These rounds would look sort of like these examples -

https://www.outdoorhub.com/how-to/2017/03/27/best-handgun-ammo-shooting-snakes/ (On the rightmost shells, autoloaders need that ogive for auto-loading, revolvers / single shots don't though)

You use a smaller die to reduce the diameter of the case up front to fit inside the cylinder, best to only reduce it JUST past where it's needed as the pressure of firing it can rework it, making more case cracks is unwise?

If needed could go longer with a 357 max even, if the cylinder's THAT long.

[Mr_Sheesh]

The whole idea in using a longer casing for a revolver or single-shot shot shell is to get more shot en route to the target, when you squeeze the trigger.

.38 Special is a nice long size for a shotshell anyways, nice long case at 1.155 in (29.3 mm); 357 Mag at 1.29 in (33 mm), 357 max at 1.605 in (40.8 mm) so you can see that the extra 0.315" gives you a bit more shot volume.

[Alferd Packer]

I have used a steel washer placed over a hole in a board.
Get a washer with a hole smaller than the case.

[beagle]

Or, if you're playing with sizing die adapters like some of us, choose a sizing die of the diameter you want and throw a neck on it until it chambers. Not sure how that would extract though./beagle


Neck size with a die for a smaller case. 9mm might work for 357, though it won't be much of a neck. You can make sizing dies with something called a drill bushing. https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=drill+bushing Bore out a socket in an old die, or a piece of allthread, or whatever, press in the appropriate size of bushing. Or bore your own. Lathe helps, but a drill press will work. Patient guy with a file can get there, too. If you want to do it badly enough, you can figure a way.

There are books on forming brass for wildcats or obsolete cartridges. Considerable discussion right here at Cast Boolits.

[Alferd Packer]

The best thing to do is hunt up some no.12 shot.
Find some 12 ga.RIO shotshells with no.12 and disassemble those to get the shot.
Then, no matter your caliber, the homemade shotshells will shred your target satisfactory.
NO.¹2 SHOT is best.

[Photog]

This is way easier. I just took a 357 case lubed it up and crammed it into my 309 bullet sizing die. Makes a nice bottleneck and it'll drop into any 38 special chamber. It's really not a difficult thing311886