Moral rant

[Traffer]

I just read a post in which the person was responding to the abortion abomination here in the US. They said "In a way we are all responsible (guilty) for the horror of abortions".
Folks, do you see how SATAN here is shaming and placing guilt on the innocent? I have been vocally opposed to abortion since the godless Supreme Court made it legal. I am also opposed to having godless Supreme Court Justices. They are all corrupt. There is an astute saying: "power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
This is a true and reasonable statement EXCEPT for those who FEAR GOD. God fearing people are NOT necessarily corrupted by power. Because they know that they actually have none apart from God.

Anyway ...my message here is this:
DO NOT ACCEPT BLAME FOR THINGS YOU HAVE NOT DONE. THIS IS ONE OF SATAN'S WAYS OF CONTROLLING THE WEAK WILLED. He has had success with it concerning shaming YOU for WARMING the planet. And fools accept this blame. ...good grief. Now people are accepting shame and guilt for not wearing masks and other very foolish mandates by a perverted governing power.
People, WAKE UP. If you feared God, you would not fall for this cowing by the minions of Satan. JUST STOP.

[Ickisrulz]

I agree, people should educate their consciences (e.g., see Paul's discourse on meat sacrificed to demons).

Now, if a person's theology contains the notion that God deals with nations corporately (like he did with Israel), then it follows that blame and punishment are distributed to all members of the nation. So I can see where some Christians might be plagued with guilt over the morals exhibited by Americans.

Christians are "salt" and "light" to the world. Has the Church been doing her best when it comes to the issue of abortion? That is the tough question.

[Thundarstick]

I've often wondered of a Christian would be justified to use dealey force to stop abortions. You would be protecting the helpless after all.

[wmitty]

Christ said a man can’t comprehend the spiritual kingdom unless he has been born from above. (John 3:3). He is blinded by Satan, with no moral compass. Guys, by our Creator’s mercy we have been made spiritually alive. I look forward to meeting you men when this life is over.

[Ickisrulz]

I've often wondered of a Christian would be justified to use dealey force to stop abortions. You would be protecting the helpless after all.

We need to remember that the idea that abortion is murder is by application, not scriptural proclamation. The Bible is against murder and issues the strongest penalty for it. However, the Bible seems to place less value on the life of the unborn (Exodus 21:22) for whatever reason.

Additionally, if an aborted baby has a soul (we don't know for sure), what becomes of him? Maybe he automatically goes to heaven!

Personally, I am opposed to abortion for many reasons. But I don't think I'd take up arms against abortion clinics the way some have done.

[William Yanda]

Liberals are pitching a fit today about the recent USSC decision on Montana's law granting tax credits for religious schools. They feel it is unfair that they are being "forced" to support something which they do not agree with. It is a little bit of a stretch to find that tax credits for you mean that I am supporting your position. I would be concerned except that they do not apply the same principle to Planned Parenthood and my taxes funding something to which I am philosophically opposed.

[Thundarstick]

Personally, I am opposed to abortion for many reasons. But I don't think I'd take up arms against abortion clinics the way some have done.

I'm mostly in agreement with you, however, perhaps Christians haven't made the consequences strong enough for abortionist and law makers who have "normalized" such. Perhaps we do bear some responsibility for such abominations by our collective peaceful silence.

Eph 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I know this is one verse with no context, and it's up to each of us how it's applied (on a personal level or collective level).

[dtknowles]

I've often wondered of a Christian would be justified to use dealey force to stop abortions. You would be protecting the helpless after all.

Is it murder to kill a murder? Who is to judge which murderer is more evil or are they both equally evil. If you kill an abortion doctor can you be sure you have saved a single life? Wouldn't you have to kill many as the woman who wants an abortion can just go someplace else and won't you make a martyr of the dead doctor?

What does the bible say about taking the law into your own hands?

Would you defend yourself when law enforcement comes to arrest you?

What if by accident you kill the wrong person?

This thread is full of moral hazard.

Wouldn't it be much better to change the things that lead people to become accidently pregnant or the things that drive them to get abortions if they have unwanted pregnancies?

Seems they are more effective at reducing abortions and certainly are morally correct.

Would not that be doing God's work?

Why do people so often turn to violence when looking for a solution when often it should be a last resort.

Tim

[Traffer]

Is it murder to kill a murder? Who is to judge which murderer is more evil or are they both equally evil. If you kill an abortion doctor can you be sure you have saved a single life? Wouldn't you have to kill many as the woman who wants an abortion can just go someplace else and won't you make a martyr of the dead doctor?

What does the bible say about taking the law into your own hands?

Would you defend yourself when law enforcement comes to arrest you?

What if by accident you kill the wrong person?

This thread is full of moral hazard.

Wouldn't it be much better to change the things that lead people to become accidently pregnant or the things that drive them to get abortions if they have unwanted pregnancies?

Seems they are more effective at reducing abortions and certainly are morally correct.

Would not that be doing God's work?

Why do people so often turn to violence when looking for a solution when often it should be a last resort.

Tim

The idea of "using deadly force" aka "kill someone" to stop abortions in the name of Jesus is absolutely ludicrous. Anybody who would actually consider that has no real understanding of Jesus Christ and i dare say is certainly not part of God's Kingdom. This is the kind of lie that Satan uses to deceive those who are NOT devoted to Christ.
Our enemy, Satan, has many weapons or tricks to use against us. Deception is a big one. We are easily deceived by him. Our refuge from this is in Christ. Or put in another way, our refuge against being deceived by Satan is the FEAR OF GOD. This is a huge topic in the Bible. It says in one place that Jesus delighted in the fear of the lord. It is a refuge. The Bible also says that it is the "beginning of wisdom". Those who fear the Lord have entered into the path of wisdom. That wisdom would easily discern that killing someone for advocating abortion is wrong.

[dtknowles]

The idea of "using deadly force" aka "kill someone" to stop abortions in the name of Jesus is absolutely ludicrous. Anybody who would actually consider that has no real understanding of Jesus Christ and i dare say is certainly not part of God's Kingdom. This is the kind of lie that Satan uses to deceive those who are NOT devoted to Christ.
Our enemy, Satan, has many weapons or tricks to use against us. Deception is a big one. We are easily deceived by him. Our refuge from this is in Christ. Or put in another way, our refuge against being deceived by Satan is the FEAR OF GOD. This is a huge topic in the Bible. It says in one place that Jesus delighted in the fear of the lord. It is a refuge. The Bible also says that it is the "beginning of wisdom". Those who fear the Lord have entered into the path of wisdom. That wisdom would easily discern that killing someone for advocating abortion is wrong.

I hope Thundarstick gets your message, I think you are correct.

Tim

[Parson]

Abortion was common in the first century and Jesus said nothing directly about it. It’s like when many years ago Steve Forbes ran for president in the primaries. He was against abortion and was asked if as president he would outlaw abortion. He replied that no president could outlaw abortion, for abortion to be outlawed would take a change in our culture. I agree, we need revival before anything major will change in this nation

[Traffer]

Abortion was common in the first century and Jesus said nothing directly about it. It’s like when many years ago Steve Forbes ran for president in the primaries. He was against abortion and was asked if as president he would outlaw abortion. He replied that no president could outlaw abortion, for abortion to be outlawed would take a change in our culture. I agree, we need revival before anything major will change in this nation

I disagree. Abortion is legal by a mandate of a group of 12 people called the Supreme Court of the United States. The vast majority of voters oppose it. Just as they did when it was legalized from the bench.

[Parson]

I disagree. Abortion is legal by a mandate of a group of 12 people called the Supreme Court of the United States. The vast majority of voters oppose it. Just as they did when it was legalized from the bench.

The vast majority do not oppose it with conviction or they would not vote for Democrats or liberal Republicans

[sharps4590]

I disagree. Abortion is legal by a mandate of a group of 12 people called the Supreme Court of the United States. The vast majority of voters oppose it. Just as they did when it was legalized from the bench.

12? Really? Lemme see....there's usually 12 on a jury though some states for some crimes allow 6. Unless they've added 3 in the last 24 hours, there's only 9 Supreme Court Justices. Just because a majority of judges sitting on a bench in black robes say something is legal makes it neither moral nor right.

[dtknowles]

12? Really? Lemme see....there's usually 12 on a jury though some states for some crimes allow 6. Unless they've added 3 in the last 24 hours, there's only 9 Supreme Court Justices. Just because a majority of judges sitting on a bench in black robes say something is legal makes it neither moral nor right.

Agreed, the court has been wrong a time or two or three. When you are trying to determine if something is moral or right, where do you look?

Tim

[dtknowles]

I disagree. Abortion is legal by a mandate of a group of 12 people called the Supreme Court of the United States. The vast majority of voters oppose it. Just as they did when it was legalized from the bench.

I oppose abortion but I don't support making more illegal than it already is. Abortion is restricted, regulated and in some case illegal. Would you make all abortions illegal? Exactly how would you change current law? Would you compromise and provide free contraceptives in exchange for stricter abortion laws?

Tim

[Traffer]

12? Really? Lemme see....there's usually 12 on a jury though some states for some crimes allow 6. Unless they've added 3 in the last 24 hours, there's only 9 Supreme Court Justices. Just because a majority of judges sitting on a bench in black robes say something is legal makes it neither moral nor right.

A er 9....Supreme Court Justices. I knew that once...or did I... lol

[Thundarstick]

I hope Thundarstick gets your message, I think you are correct.

Tim

O, I agree as well! I was making a wondering comment.

I will say that Christians who voted (vote) for politicians who have a firm platform against everything you SAY you hold near and dear, are guilty of making abortion legal! I had this very argument with my parents years and years ago.
So I contend that if you vote (voted) with your wallets best interests in mind and not God's righteousness you do bear some responsibility for the direction the country has (is going) gone!

[1hole]

Christians are "salt" and "light" to the world. Has the Church been doing her best when it comes to the issue of abortion? That is the tough question.

I believe the tuff question is, who can rightfully claim to be "the Church".

The true church, the Bride of Christ, is composed ONLY of those who have not just "believed" in some vague form of a god but have truly made Jesus Lord of their lives; i.e., those who are spiritually "born again" believers; that can't be faked. Many who claim to be Christian are lying, even to themselves. (See Mat 7:21)

The world accepts that all who claim to "believe" and perhaps attend meetings in local groups that call themselves "the Church" must be believers but not all of those who say, "Lord, Lord, didn't we ..." are in fact a part of The Church.

The Church is very small. We have no power other than the power of God through prayer and we cannot mandate anything from goobermint.

I do believe God WILL demand an answer from his people for how earnestly we prayed over government's legally sanctioned (and partly tax funded) industrial scale murder of tens of millions of infants; THAT question will indeed be tuff!

[Traffer]

I believe the tuff question is, who can rightfully claim to be "the Church".

The true church, the Bride of Christ, is composed ONLY of those who have not just "believed" in some vague form of a god but have truly made Jesus Lord of their lives; i.e., those who are spiritually "born again" believers; that can't be faked. Many who claim to be Christian are lying, even to themselves. (See Mat 7:21)

The world accepts that all who claim to "believe" and perhaps attend meetings in local groups that call themselves "the Church" must be believers but not all of those who say, "Lord, Lord, didn't we ..." are in fact a part of The Church.

The Church is very small. We have no power other than the power of God through prayer and we cannot mandate anything from goobermint.

I do believe God WILL demand an answer from his people for how earnestly we prayed over government's legally sanctioned (and partly tax funded) industrial scale murder of tens of millions of infants; THAT question will indeed be tuff!

Well said. The dilema of the Church and who it really is ...Addressed by Jesus in the parable of the Wheat and Tares Matt 13 And again by Jesus in the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matt 24 &25. We indeed cannot determine who actually is the Church of Christ. And many are certainly not by Jesus' standards. What we can do is challenge those who CLAIM to be part of God's Church but actually do the bidding of Satan. And Challenge them HARD.
This is perhaps the biggest failing of the faithful. We are afraid to challenge those who are acting against the gospel and heart of Christ. Part of the reason I started this thread was to broach that very subject.
So many people sit in judgment of God's Church for the hypocrisy they witness. We need to call out that hypocrisy. Chastise and ostracize those who bring shame to the name of Christ. Paul says the we ARE to judge those in the Church but not those who are not God's people.

[1hole]

....So many people sit in judgment of God's Church and the hypocrisy they witness.

Yes. It's difficult for lost people who don't know and can't understand the difference between the Church and those who attend church house meetings as casually as if they were nice social clubs. THOSE "churches" are for religious (but not Christian) people who are morally ambivalent themselves and want everyone else to join them in toleration - and even honoring - those who blissfully live lifestyles in rebellion to God. We have many congregations and even some whole denominations that were once sound but are now totally mired in one or another of the several Satan inspired "feel-good-about-yourself" false theologies.


We need to call out that hypocrisy. Chastise and ostracize those who bring shame to the name of Christ. Paul says the we ARE to judge those in the Church but not those who are not God's people.

If we are in one of those groups it can be difficult to impossible to change them; if they cared at all about what Christians believe they wouldn't be so mind-numbed and sin-slimed already. The only way out that I can see is for Christians to separate themselves from Satan's religious social clubs and find or form a group that stands on the solid rock of Lord Jesus and His written Word.

*** I find advocates of unrestrained "abortion" (aka, infanticide) strongly suggesting that before Roe vs. Wade there were no legal abortions puzzling; that's a highly eddicated librul lie. Truth is, there were many legal abortions performed in local hospitals at the hands of competent surgeons and with the written concurrence of the various states for the real health needs of the mother but not at the whim of the mother. That meant there would be no vast baby killing industries for money (like Planned Parenthood) to support a specific morally bankrupt political party. So, the legal restraints got eliminated and the suddenly released flood of baby blood money started and continues to roll in.

You may find it ironic as I do that the same people who go berserk talking about any changes in the baby killing rules are often the same as those who demand no executions of a very few criminals because - they say - even one human life is too precious to lose!

Precious? Yes, but just how seriously do libs really take human life? Well, last I heard (a few years back) Americans have casually aborted/murdered well passed 80 million babies since Roe (and New York State wants to legally wipe 'em out even after birth), all for the mother's health of course, ... or so they say ... if you're gullible enough to believe any of that.

[Win94ae]

I have been vocally opposed to abortion since the godless Supreme Court made it legal. I am also opposed to having godless Supreme Court Justices.

They didn't make abortion legal, they ruled that government has no business in your medical affairs.
...of course Obamacare turns that on its head.

Don't accept the blame. If you can't do that, do more to change things!

[bakerjw]

I must say that I am impressed with the polite level of discourse that I have seen on this site since my arrival. I did see a comparison to someones understanding level being the same as a cow.
On other forums that I frequent, people would already be sent to band camp and the thread locked for cleanup.
Carry on all.

[smithnframe]

I'm a Conservative but I'm not against abortion.

[1hole]

I'm a Conservative but I'm not against abortion.

I don't believe many people are "against abortion" per se. Many of us ARE against willy-nilly abortions/murders based solely on a mother's short term whim; after all, there is an infant child in all of this! And we are STRONGLY opposed to unrestrained tax funded industrial level abortion clinics.

[Walks]

Back in 1973, when they passed Roe vs Wade I was 19yrs old and in the Service.
I like most people I suppose thought that abortion would be used for Medical necessity. Rape, possibility of birth defects, health of Mother or child.
Only in extreme cases. And after a lot of Soul Searching.

I never expected it would become what it is today.

A method of birth control for lazy, indifferent women who are oblivious to the fact that they are committing willful Murder for they own selfish convenience.