Automated sizing only

[GarrettP1]

I’ve been watching some of the YouTube videos of automated reloading set-ups, and especially the DIY systems.
Like a lot of you, I prefer to do my sizing and priming separate from powder/bullet/ crimp.
I just got the Lee APP, and it’s about as perfect as I could ask for in swaging the primer pockets in 1K of 308 or 556 brass at one sitting (perfect would be my wife doing it for me, but that’s not going to happen).
Is anyone here interested in brainstorming an automated sizing only (DIY) set up?
I’m thinking a pneumatic ram that would push the brass into the sizing die, OR maybe push the sizing die down over the brass on its shell holder. A small actuator would kick the resized case off the shell holder.
What I want to accomplish is a hopper fed system that I could size about 1,000 cases at a time.
I doubt I could make it “set-and-forget” (case misfeeds happen in even the most expensive commercial systems), but I bet we could come up with something pretty close.
Ideas?

[mattw]

That would be cool... The APP is a pretty good machine, works over 9mm, 380 and 32 acp like a dream. Had some problems with 30 carbine wanting to land right on the last couple of rounds, it also dumped the whole tube once.

I would think the ram would be the easiest to apply power to, say maybe threaded into the ram location of an old press. Kick the cases out with a solenoid. The hardest part would be feeding the press.

[GarrettP1]

Mattw,
I was thinking the same thing (taking apart a press and re-purposing it for this project). The advantage of what you suggest is that the ram and die holder (threads) are already in alignment. The "engineering" part is taking the brass case from where it lands on the shell holder to the position for sizing.
I really like the idea of group design for this.

[jmorris]

If one could get enough purchase with a pass through shell holder to not rip the rim off coming out of the die you could do it similar to my decap/primer pocket sorter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgU3-OXuUU

[jmorris]

This video is a better view of the feed setup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzPBLrtajCc

[rayh]

Jmorris you're the Bill Ruger of reloading tool design !

[GarrettP1]

Wow, that is great idea!
Using rotary motion you have the decap unit moving in a linear (vertical) plane, with progression of the cases to a sorting station.

That same concept would work for the sizing die to move downward over the case where it is sitting on the shell holder. The sized case could then be kicked off the line in the next movement of the line (and I note how you made a "shell holder" by the parallel strips of metal on either side of the case).

With modification, that would work well. (And yes, the first 3 or 4 iterations will fail horribly until troubleshooting is complete-that's how anything I do goes).

Thank you for posting that.

[GarrettP1]

That shell holder system also means that you wouldn't need to worry about having a stand alone shell holder circle back to pick up a new case. Talk about easy set up! Since you can use the same shell holder for 223 Remington and 9 mm you could do 1,000 cases of your rifle cases, and then another thousand or so of pistol cases just by changing the die (same with 308 Win and 45 ACP).

I have to be honest: I doubt I could have thought that one up.
Well done sir!

[mattw]

I love the linear process of the decapping or sorting press! With a sizing press one would need space on either side of the case to be sized, that would be really difficult to do in a linear fashion... I think. Also, working from above by moving the die would be more difficult as the pressure even within the same case class could be radically different. Think 9mm versus 380 or 32 ACP versus 32 H&R or 327 Fed.

If it were actuated from above, I am not sure it could be done by motor. I do understand that a gear drive or belt drive could be adapted, but the option to crush things would be greatly magnified by the power of the drive reducer.

I am not a mechanical engineer, so I could be talking out of my butt! :)

[jmorris]

The “pass through” shell holder has now been made by Lee and available for the masses, for “regular” presses.

https://leeprecision.com/x-press-shell-holders/

I have no idea how well they would work at extraction of a case from a size die, most certainly less effective than a standard shell holder.

As far as sorting, I would do that before sizing as sorting 9mm versus 380 or 32 ACP versus 32 H&R or 327 Fed, would be better done with other methods.

Like diameter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw7IcQUmgs

[jmorris]

Or length.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slw9lROdCLc

[onelight]

More amazing jmorris equipment , great stuff !!!

[GWS]

The only problem is, we can't buy JMORRIS tools......yet.

I bought the Lee APP and I'm not usually an early adopter. Its super nice in a lot of ways, but definitely not in the heavy-bilt department. I have to be honest.....I had ulterior motives. Even before the Lee tool arrived and I fell in LOVE with it!

I wanted to get to know it well enough to maybe convert a super heavy duty RCBS Summit press to feed brass, use https://leeprecision.com/X-PRESS-Shell-Holders-Category/ and that's still a goal, but I've had so much fun being amazed what the little lightweight can do, that the idea, while still inching toward the front burner hasn't arrived yet.

I finally have a 3D printer on the way.....rolling eyes....(a week waiting to be shipped). The plan is to make parts to feed the summit copying the "linear" feed idea of the Johns.....John Morris and John Lee! :)

One more thing: the Summit Press design is just screaming for a conversion kit to allow dies to be inserted from below as well. I told an RCBS engineer i know that. Wouldn't it be cool if he felt as strong about making an automatic feed and die-mount from down under and me. He was positive.....but there is lawyers.......and of course the corporate taskmaster Vista Outdoors to deal with. But that won't stop me from trying it personally. As for the pneumatic ram you requested.....jmorris could add that feature.

See this open front design? Am I the only one who sees the possibilities......and it's heavy cast iron with a ram big enough to choke a horse. ;)
https://i.postimg.cc/26GCyt37/IMG-1589.jpg"

The base might could be bored and threaded for bushings:

https://i.postimg.cc/QMWBBjrk/IMG-1529.jpg"

What do you think jmorris?

https://i.postimg.cc/ydmkPnxD/IMG-1528.jpg

[mattw]

I have the APP as well, it is not the strongest press nor the prettiest but I really like it. The linear case loading parts are very cheaply made, but also very effective with small cases like 9, 380 and 32 variations. I will admit that I fight with it and 30 Carbine, they do not want to land on the rail and stay there. The pass through shell holders work amazingly well and I would love to try and adapt this feed to my beloved RC2. I do not have a 3D printer, and likely never will. So, making the parts is not going to happen. :( But, I think they have the right idea for the formation of something really cool. This linear loading system is why I think an automated ram would be the perfect choice.

[GarrettP1]

Found another video on YouTube of an automated resizing machine. Again, rotation of the motor turned into linear movement of the ram. Look up GBO reload.
I could see a modification of that design: The brass case is pushed into a pass through shell holder (like the Lee). That case holder stays in position and the die is lowered over the case. If you wanted, the case holder could sit on a ram that is partially raised to meet the die half-way.
After sizing, a small arm (which turns in a circle) knocks the sized case out of the holder, and the next case is pushed in.
Looks very possible.
The only thing missing is a "laser". I definitely want to build one with a laser (all the best equipment has a laser). It wouldn't do anything, but at least it's a laser.

[GWS]

My experience tweaking the APP for Rifle, might enlighten some of you on the things that can disrupt an autofeed on your home build project:

I wanted to use the 4-way accessory for rifle. Lee said that was an option, but didn’t push or encourage it much.

First off the APP did LC 762 (.308) “fairly well”…..kinda…..but then I tried .223 and it was a disaster. So I began the search for smoother sailing and at the same time figure out quicker caliber changes using the four-way. (Feeder adjustment stock is a big PIA)

Mod #1: I created clear drop tubes with side cutouts so that I could change between .223 and .308 without height adjustments. And added benefit was the clear drop tubes made it easier to see what was going on during the drops (and what caused the misses and missiles. :) The following video shows what I came up with and it works well for me:


https://youtu.be/ths0rbsUArQ

That alone cured any feeding problems with .308, but .223 was still a challenge. It seems the lighter the case, the more mis-feeds from the tube. Besides that, the smaller the base, the more problems with Lee X-press shellholders (the plowed ones). The following video demonstrates the less than successful feeding of four tubes worth of .223 using the 4-way and the x-press shell holders…..not all neat and smooth!


https://youtu.be/Pnw-V0C3Ptw

Mod #2: I discovered that biggest cause for tube mis-feeds with light cases, was the bevel at the top of the shuttle.

So I got out my Dremal with a sanding cylinder and removed the top bevel, by sanding vertical against it. A 3D printed copy of the shuttle minus the beveled lip would be better and safer. (easy to sand too much) Now those light cases would no longer tilt in the bevel before falling and causing all the hell.

As for the plowed express shell holder for .223, some of the bases still caught and halted at times in the plowed shell holders! This turned out to be a problem with LC case heads. The embossed symbols are rough and don’t slide well. So I rubbed the cases, base-down, once across a sheet of 400 grit sandpaper before I processed them….only had to do that on LC brass. Normal factory .223 slid across the x-press holders without a problem.

Result:


https://youtu.be/DqvVJaDwmqM


Pushing out those crimped primers in LC brass is less smooth than it would be with if the APP was made with a heavy press like the Summit. The Summit even with the short handle could just be let go without any force and those spent primers wouldn't know what hit them. :)

[jmorris]

For threaded dies on the bottom, just flip the press upside down. This is an unmodified Lee breechlock with a mount an linkage setup so it’s auto driven and fed using a motor, bell cranks and a spring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zbImsdkbg

[GarrettP1]

Jmorris,
What type of electric motor is that?
Was that the original RPM it was designed for?
Your work is fantastic. In real life I’m a neurosurgeon (brain surgeon) and your engineering skills are making me feel stupid.

[GarrettP1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr1z17fm_aY

GBO sizing machine

[Gtrubicon]

I want to hang out with Jmorris!

[Huvius]

I think that jmorris could be the guy who produces the O.K. Go videos!

The first deprimer he showed could be a good basis for an automated sizing machine for bottle necked cases if you were to mount the die on the ram and bevel the outside of the die so it won’t hang up on the adjacent case.

[Tazza]

I want to hang out with Jmorris!

We all do, i have picked his brains a few times with issues i have had, his advise solved my issues.

I made my own projectile sizing machine and had play with the part that makes the projectile move, his advise solved it far easier than the way i was going to do it.

[jmorris]

That motor running the Lee is a shaded pole gear motor, 40 RPM IIRC. Gear motors are expensive new, most all the ones I get for my projects are from eBay ‘won’ for fractions of new cost.

I appreciate the kind words, I have a lifetime of stuff to build things and enjoy doing it, that helps with building contraptions.

[Vdubman27]

Jmorris any plans to sell your decapping machine? If so put me on the list for one

[Vdubman27]

Jmorris any chance you want to sell your decapper?

[Vdubman27]

Any interest in selling your decapper?

[jmorris]

Sent you a PM