Fav 38 spec generic load

[osteodoc08]

Hey guys. I have a few 38/357 levers and revolvers. I don’t want to reinvent the wheel. I’ve got several generic 158gr SWC lubed with BAC given to me by a friend. I want to load a few hundred plinkers I can use in all of them for friends and family. Just needs to be minute of coke bottle to 25-50 yards for plinking. Any serious loads will be worked up. Powders on the hand include 231, 2400, BE-86, HS-6, and perhaps some power pistol?

[oldsalt444]

Can't go wrong with 231. I use 4.3 gr. with a 158 LSWC for ~800 fps.

[Rodfac]

I like 4.5 gr of Win 231 with 158 gr LSWC's (Lyman's 358156 w/o GC), sized 0.358" for my 4" bbl'd Smith's and Rugers; gives me good accuracy and about 800 fps according to Quickload. ACWW +2% tin for mold fill out is the alloy and I use 50-50 lube. HTH's and be sure to consult a good manual before working up to this load. It's been first rate in a pair of M19 Smith's, another pair of M66's, two M60's, a M637, a M36, and one M27. My Rugers both have 4-5/8" bbl's. and like it too. It'll do 2" or better at 25 with quality bullets over iron sights.

Recoil is mild even in all but the M637 where it's just a mite stiffer. This is a great practice load from about any yard line and is my go-to for all .38 Special loads. BTW, I use only enough roll crimp to hold the bullet in place in recoil, just barely taking out the case mouth flare used when seating. A taper crimp works as well and may give better accuracy too. Best regards, Rod (If you can find Bullseye, it works even better at 3.1 gr for wadcutters, and 3.5 for LSWC's)

[kenton]

Not a cast load but I like 5.5grs of power pistol under a 158gr rainier in a 38spl. It is +p according to some data but it definitely seems to carry better than standard pressure loads out past 50 yards. Point blank out to 75ish yards and have to hold a little over at 100 out of my Rossi 92.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think Rodfac is on the money.

A plain base 158 gr LSWC, BHn somewhere between 9-10, and lubed with 50/50. I was using BAC and getting some leading with 38 Special. NRA 50/50 fixed that. As much as I like BAC (it's a bit easier to live with before you seat the bullets) it appears to be just a little too hard for 38 Special velocities.

Of the powders listed - WW231 [AKA, HP-38] is the one I would go with. And again agreeing with Rodfac - 4.5 grains of 231 will put you where you what to be. I also agree that 3.5 grains of Bullseye is the way to go with a 158gr LSWC and 3.1 grains with a 150ish gr WC.

For most S&W and Ruger 38 Special revolvers I find that sizing to .357" is better than .358". YMMV
The proper size expander is key.
Most of the cylinder throats on S&W and Ruger 38/357 revolvers run closer to .357", in my experience.

Seat to the crimp groove and use a light roll crimp.

There is no shortage of excellent bullets in the 158gr SWC category. My favorite is a SAECO #382 but the RCBS version is also very good (but limited to dual cavities). An old Lyman 358477 may be another good choice.

[FISH4BUGS]

I keep it simple. 4.0 gr WW231 and a H&G #51 (160gr swc) or H&G #39 (158gr rn).
I shoot THOUSANDS of them in all the 38's and 357's.
36 (2 models - 2" and 3"), 2" 640, 4" 67, 6" 28 and InterArms Rossi 92 rifle.
My go to blasting round!
231 IS a bit dirty though....but cheaper and an 8 lb jug goes a long way!
I also use it for my 380, 9mm, light .357, 45, 44 spl and light 44 mag.

[farmbif]

I was loading some 38spl yesterday with 3.5 gr bullseye and some with 4.3 gr be86 both shot real well. lubesized to .358 with carnauba red

[JoeJames]

Win 231 is one of my favorites for 38 Special and 44 Special. I have found my most accurate loads in my 4" S&W Model 67 and Model 15 are 158 grain swc's and 4.1 grains of Win 231 - avg vel. = 851 fps.

[Ed_Shot]

Lyman 358242 (121 gr.) or NOE 359242, sized .358, over Red Dot/Promo 4.2 gr. in a 38 Spl case.

[Outpost75]

Factory 158-grain LRN .38 Special cartridges were loaded for 100 years with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. You could do much worse.

Today, of course, there are better bullets than round-nose. Using the same 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a cast, 146-148 grain double-end wadcutter, producing a "full charge wadcutter" is as good an accurate and effective general-purpose load as you could ask for:

264268264269

[Carrier]

I’ve tried other powders but have always came back to 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a SWC or RN.

[tazman]

Factory 158-grain LRN .38 Special cartridges were loaded for 100 years with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. You could do much worse.

If there was ever a classic load for 38 special, this is it.^^^^^

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree that Bullseye is an excellent powder for 38 Special, but it wasn't on the OP's list. WW231 was on the list and is also an excellent powder for 38 Special.

[ABJ]

I'm going to sound like a broken record here but with a deep seated 158 like the Lee 158-rf I use 4.1 of HP-38. More shallow seated 158/160 on up to 4.4 of same. I never got the accuracy out of Bullseye that some do in the 38 case. Now on 45 ACP Bullseye is my go to powder.

Tony

[JoeJames]

Factory 158-grain LRN .38 Special cartridges were loaded for 100 years with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. You could do much worse.

Today, of course, there are better bullets than round-nose. Using the same 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a cast, 146-148 grain double-end wadcutter, producing a "full charge wadcutter" is as good an accurate and effective general-purpose load as you could ask for:

264268264269Per Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers published in the late 30's, he said the factory load with a 158 grain bullet was 3.6 grains of Bullseye, and velocity from a 6" barrel was 860 fps. 1/10th of a grain difference.

[Larry Gibson]

I’ve tried other powders but have always came back to 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a SWC or RN.

Another vote for this load. I use it with 150 - 158 gr cast or swaged bullets. Excellent load, ain't broke, no need to fix it.......

[Mk42gunner]

While I'm sure Bullseye is a great powder for the .38 Special, the powder I started with is Winchester's 231.

Being a firm believer in the old adage "If it works, don't mess with it." I still use 231 with ~158 gr boolits, usually around 4.4 grains.

Robert

[Conditor22]

I always thought the classic 158 grn load was:

UNIQUE 4.6 grains for 38 spcl and 6.4 for 357 mag

[Petrol & Powder]

While I'm sure Bullseye is a great powder for the .38 Special, the powder I started with is Winchester's 231.

............

I started with 231 and have probably burned more of that than any other. For some reason, that I've never understood, Bullseye was difficult to obtain locally. That was pre-internet days, so ordering something involved an envelope, a stamp, a money order and about a 2 week wait :-o That pushed me towards purchasing WW231 locally, which turned out to be a good thing.

I still use WW231 for some 38 Special loads (mostly because I have a lot of it) but Bullseye has become my primary powder for 38 Special loads.

They're both good powders and well suited 38 Special loads.

[Budzilla 19]

38 spcl.,158 grn SWC bevel base, Federal Gold metal match small pistol primer, cause i got them, 4.0 grns Trail Boss, works for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JoeJames]

I had some Win 231 laying around so I tried 2 different weights of powder in a 4" S&W Model 15, both with 158 grain swc's:

4.0 grains = 800 fps

4.4 grains = 878 fps

[cowboy4evr]

For years I used 2 loads . 5.0 grs of Unique and 3.5 grs of Bullseye with 158-160 gr swc's . They did all I could of asked for . Regards Paul

[smkummer]

Can't go wrong with 231. I use 4.3 gr. with a 158 LSWC for ~800 fps.
Yep, it’s what I use.

[Mk42gunner]

Thinking about this overnight, I came to the conclusion that for run of the mill general purpose .38 Special cartridges, just about any powder faster than Herco (and there are quite a few of them) will work. Some better than others, some more economical, some meter better, but they will all work.

Robert

[Crow_Eater]

Using the old HP-38 formulation (before Hodgdon started just labeling 231 as HP-38) I liked 3.8 gr of HP-38 under a 158 - 159 gr cast SWC, WSP, and just about any brass. It made a nice light, accurate load.
For HS-6, I used 6.0 (from Ken Waters Pet Loads) to 6.7 (Lyman manual max) with WSP. In .38 Special I did not use magnum primers with HS-6.
However, I highly recommend 5.9 gr of AA-5.

[ABJ]

Thinking about this overnight, I came to the conclusion that for run of the mill general purpose .38 Special cartridges, just about any powder faster than Herco (and there are quite a few of them) will work. Some better than others, some more economical, some meter better, but they will all work.

Robert

I agree, most any of these powders will give very good accuracy, red dot is a prime example but the hand measuring is what keeps me from using more of it than I do. I'm lucky in the fact that I have an old Herters from the 60's passed down to me and it will throw consistent charges of flake powders down to about 3.0 grains. It stays full of Unique will do the dot's just the same. The reason I use the HP-38 is from 3.8 to 4.4 under a 158 not a lot of accuracy difference so a 1/10 movement you will never see on the target. Of all the powders in that burn range the HP-38 seems to be the most forgiving.
Tony

[onelight]

I agree, most any of these powders will give very good accuracy, red dot is a prime example but the hand measuring is what keeps me from using more of it than I do. I'm lucky in the fact that I have an old Herters from the 60's passed down to me and it will throw consistent charges of flake powders down to about 3.0 grains. It stays full of Unique will do the dot's just the same. The reason I use the HP-38 is from 3.8 to 4.4 under a 158 not a lot of accuracy difference so a 1/10 movement you will never see on the target. Of all the powders in that burn range the HP-38 seems to be the most forgiving.
Tony
Good post , I also have found certain measures/presses have a preference for what they work best with .
Feedum what they like.

[JoeJames]

I agree, most any of these powders will give very good accuracy, red dot is a prime example but the hand measuring is what keeps me from using more of it than I do. I'm lucky in the fact that I have an old Herters from the 60's passed down to me and it will throw consistent charges of flake powders down to about 3.0 grains. It stays full of Unique will do the dot's just the same. The reason I use the HP-38 is from 3.8 to 4.4 under a 158 not a lot of accuracy difference so a 1/10 movement you will never see on the target. Of all the powders in that burn range the HP-38 seems to be the most forgiving.
TonyThat is interesting. Never thought about that before. When loading 38 Special I use an old RCBS powder measure, and then weigh it with a trickler standing by over the pan. Sometimes it seems like just a flake or two is enough to nudge it, from say 4.4 grains of 231 to 4.5. I usually dump it back in the measure, but sometimes out of pure dee laziness, I go ahead and use it. Not thought about it being forgiving, but upon reflection the groups do still plunk in there to point of aim.

Thanks.

[rintinglen]

I started with 231 and have probably burned more of that than any other. For some reason, that I've never understood, Bullseye was difficult to obtain locally. That was pre-internet days, so ordering something involved an envelope, a stamp, a money order and about a 2 week wait :-o That pushed me towards purchasing WW231 locally, which turned out to be a good thing.

I still use WW231 for some 38 Special loads (mostly because I have a lot of it) but Bullseye has become my primary powder for 38 Special loads.

They're both good powders and well suited 38 Special loads.

My experience exactly, save for a period of about a year and half in the late 70's, when I was able to buy 8 lb kegs of Red Dot for just a shade over half what the Bullseye 4 lbers were running, when I could find them. When I moved to LA in the fall of 79, I found I could get 4 and 8 lb kegs of WW-231 for about a buck a pound cheaper that they were getting for Bullseye, and most of the time Bullseye was only to be had in even more costly 1 lb. containers. What was odd was that I had exactly the reverse experience with 2400 and 296. 2400 was nearly always to be had, while 296 was hard to find.

Anyways, 3.6 grains of red dot, 3.5 grains of Bullseye, 3.9 grains of WW-231 with a 358-477 150-ish SWC all seemed to work about the same for me.

My PPC loads were 2.8 grains Red dot, 2.7 grains BE, or 3.1 grains of WW-231 with a flush seated 148 grain wadcutter, either cast from my old Cramer 3 cavity 18H or purchased from a San Diego Commercial casting outfit. IIRC, they were 12.00/1000 back then, primers were 45.00 per 5000. My buddy at the Escondido Montgomery Wards Auto Center gave me all the wheel weights I could carry in exchange for the occasional case of beer. I shot tens of thousands of rounds in those days, for about .50 cents a box, $1.05 or so when I bought boolits.

[USSR]

Ah, you're showing your age, rintinglen. But you forgot to mention you were paying less than 30 cents a gallon for gas.;)

Don

[dverna]

In over 4 decades of loading .38’s I have only used three powders....Bullseye, W231, and Clays.

A while back I got 35 lbs of CleanShot cheap. It will become my new .38 powder. Have not tested it yet but have little doubt it will be just fine.

[rintinglen]

Actually, by then gas was 69 cents a gallon.:wink:

[JoeJames]

Shoot, I well remember gas wars when it was $.25 a gallon. Fill up my VW for $2.50.

[Chad5005]

I like 158gr lrn powdercoated or hitech coated over 3.8gr titegroup and cci spp

[Walks]

Geez, and I thought was old. In the late 70's in CA, premium gas was almost $1 a gallon. $5 for my 69 BUG.

I used to load 4.0grs of W231 under a 158gr RNFP or whatever bullet for My Kids Cowboy Guns back in 1998-2005. Until I ran out. Since I had Titegroup, Bullseye, Clays and Unique, I didn't feel another Pistol Powder was warranted. But it did shoot great in Light .45ACP Target Loads.

[jonp]

4 grn Promo. Problem solved

[EMC45]

Lee 158gr. RNFP sized to .358 over 3-3.5gr. Bullseye with any small pistol primer. Never fails to bring a smile to my face.

[Four-Sixty]

6.5 grains of HS-6 is my favorite 38 Special load used in a 357 Magnum rifle. I use standard pistol primers.

[winelover]

For years I used 2 loads . 5.0 grs of Unique and 3.5 grs of Bullseye with 158-160 gr swc's . They did all I could of asked for . Regards Paul

Yepper and I still do.

Winelover

[winelover]

I can remember 19 cents per gallon, in Detroit. We still had Sinclair, Texaco and Pure gasoline.

Winelover

[Divil]

Right now I am becoming fond of 5.3gr. Of Unique under my 36-127-Q bullet. The bullet weights a nominal 128gr. with hardball alloy and is tumble lubed with LLA and Rooster jacket. My .38 Special only GP-100’s shoot them great. This may be a touch warm for an alloy framed revolver. It is responsible for the group pictured in my Avitar.

[bedbugbilly]

Mine is another vote for the traditional 3.5 grains of Bulls Eye under a 158 grain RN or SWC.

I use the Ideal/Lyman 358-311 or the Lee 158 grain tumble lubed SWC. I'm "low tech" - I cast out of range lead purchased from members here and tumble lube in Alox/paste wax.

Both shoot very well from my revolvers and when used in rifle.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I've got a 148 gr. TL full wc mold from Accurate. Going to try 3.1 of Bullseye and see how my 1956 K-38 likes it. Sized to .358 because that is what the throats are. Lubed with JPW and Alox. Maybe use just a hint of crimp in the first groove. I have little doubt it will be a good load. Nice when you get everything together for a revolver (bullet style, alloy, size, lube and powder) and can just crank out the rounds. Both my new to me SBH and 24-3 fell into line right off the bat. With winter coming it will be revolvers as opposed to auto loaders.
267865
267869
18 shots at 15 yds. offhand. Got no reason to shoot anything else out of this revolver. Zero leading. This alloy was half coww and half pure with some tin.

[Buckeyeguy]

I am another w231 guy, 4.0 grains and a 158 grain swc. I have shot thousands of this load in several revolvers and it always works well