Hunting The 7th Cavalry With Cast Bullets

[shrapnel]

With no other forum for interesting history, I post this here. We have been chasing historical events surrounding the Custer battle in 1876 and have found some unique remnants of a war lost 150 years ago, Custer didn't lose that war, he lost a battle. Cast bullets were a major contributor to this battle and we have found a few that might interest other cast bullet shooters.

Here are some pictures...

http://i.imgur.com/6IxqetP.jpg (https://imgur.com/6IxqetP)

http://i.imgur.com/3jzWMG2.jpg (https://imgur.com/3jzWMG2)

http://i.imgur.com/a20NK2M.jpg (https://imgur.com/a20NK2M)

[Themoose]

Thanks for sharing

[Thumbcocker]

Did the federal arsenals still cast boolits in 1876? I read about steam powered swagging machines producing Minie balls in the civil war? But I also have seen drawings of massive hand cranked "arsenal molds" . Thanks for posting the pics.

[Winger Ed.]

Did the federal arsenals still cast boolits in 1876?

Not sure, but for any round ball weapons, I'd think they probably did.
When they went to hollow bases, it doesn't lend it self to high volume cast production.

I saw a picture of a round ball casting 'device' from the early days.
It looked like a spoke wagon wheel. Each spoke was a split, multi-cavity mold like our 4 or 6 cavity ones.
But each spoke looked to be about 3 feet long, and there must have been at least 15 of them on one axle
with 4 or 5 people operating it. And the factory had 2 or 3 of them going in one picture.

They could probably make at least a couple of tons of round balls a day.

I doubt they would have changed anything until round balls were obsoleted out completely by the military.

[R-71]

That middle pic is a PP bullet! If I remember correctly there was a 7th cavalry sgt with a telescopic sighted sharps. That’s a pretty amazing find.

I would imagine all the lead bullets were swaged by then.

http://csharpsarms.com/famoussharps-article/14/First-Sergeant-Ryan.html

[Thumbcocker]

First pic seems to show mold marks.

[smithnframe]

Very cool!

[waksupi]

That middle pic is a PP bullet! If I remember correctly there was a 7th cavalry sgt with a telescopic sighted sharps. That’s a pretty amazing find.

I would imagine all the lead bullets were swaged by then.

http://csharpsarms.com/famoussharps-article/14/First-Sergeant-Ryan.html

There were also white "squaw men" living with the Indians with buffalo rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

With no other forum for interesting history, I post this here. We have been chasing historical events surrounding the Custer battle in 1876 and have found some unique remnants of a war lost 150 years ago, Custer didn't lose that war, he lost a battle. Cast bullets were a major contributor to this battle and we have found a few that might interest other cast bullet shooters.

All arsenal produced 45-70 (rifle and Carbine) cartridges used in the Custer era had bullets that were arsenal produced by swaging. The Lubed grooves were canalures knurled in after swaging. They will also have the "dish" in the base oft erroneously referred to as a "hollow base". The bullet pictured obviously is not an actual arsenal bullet. Many times artifacts such as bullets are found on battlefields that were shot there, for many differed reasons, after the battle. The top photo obviously is not a bullet of a 45-55 cartridge carried into battle by 7th Cavalry troopers of the era. However, the bullet pictured in the bottom photo appears to be one. A closer photo would be appreciated?

[shtur]

I hope you're not breaking any federal rules " artifact hunting" on a National Park.

[richhodg66]

Interesting post. I've always thought metal detecting would be a very cool hobby, just have too many back burner hobbies and not enough time now. Thank you for posting this.

[Dinny]

I thought this was a follow up after watching the HBO series Watchmen. :confused:

Thanks, Dinny

[swheeler]

shrapnel thanks for posting, good pictures too. I wasn't around 150 years ago so I don't know who all was shootin' lead around Custer, MT at that time but bet there were some bullet casters around them there hills! Keep up the good work

[Larry Gibson]

There many different types and calibers of firearms used, particularly by civilians (miners, hunters, settlers, suppliers, etc.) and Indians (friendly and hostile) in that area during not only the campaign(s) of 1876 and the after math through 1877 in that area, but also the previous Red Cloud War in along the Bozeman trail. It also was many times a favored wintering area of the Sioux who were encroaching on Crow lands of that era. Additionally we can imagine a great many bullets of various cartridges were also fired in that area by hunters, plinkers and for other reasons in the intervening 144 years. Be interesting to have the measurements of both bullets [weight, diameter and length]?

[shrapnel]

There many different types and calibers of firearms used, particularly by civilians (miners, hunters, settlers, suppliers, etc.) and Indians (friendly and hostile) in that area during not only the campaign(s) of 1876 and the after math through 1877 in that area, but also the previous Red Cloud War in along the Bozeman trail. It also was many times a favored wintering area of the Sioux who were encroaching on Crow lands of that era. Additionally we can imagine a great many bullets of various cartridges were also fired in that area by hunters, plinkers and for other reasons in the intervening 144 years. Be interesting to have the measurements of both bullets [weight, diameter and length]?

We have detected all sorts of metal from farm implements to nails and modern jacketed bullets and brass. 150 years is a lot of time for some other activities in that area contributing to some unreliable data. It has to be sorted out to find pertinent information regarding the Custer Battle.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds very interesting. Please keep us posted on your findings.

[JSnover]

I hope you're not breaking any federal rules " artifact hunting" on a National Park.

As long as you leave it where you found it, there may not be a problem. I visited Gettysburg years ago and saw "genuine civil war bullets" for sale in the gas stations and souvenir shops. I assumed they were all fakes, aged in five gallon buckets of mud to look authentic.

[shrapnel]

I hope you're not breaking any federal rules " artifact hunting" on a National Park.

We have spent a lot of time investigating the historical value of the battle and pay close attention to the culturally sensitive aspects while doing so. What you hope and what we do are totally in line with all regulations locally and Federally.

[Beerd]

I don't thing anyone told those bullets when they were fired that they had to stay inside the boundary of what would someday be a National Monument.
..