38wcf

[Tar Heel]

Had a superb range session this morning with the Winchester (Uberti) 1866 Yellow-boy rifle in 38WCF (38-40). I had loaded up some period correct black powder cartridges using cast bullets from an Accurate Mold #40180E. Bullets were cast in a 20:1 binary alloy and then were sized to 0.401” and lubed with White’s BP-1 black powder lubricant. Powder charge was a compressed load of 2.2cc (35gr) Graf & Sons (Wano) FFFG black powder. Charge was compressed with a compression plug/die to 0.34” from the case mouth.

Firing was conducted offhand at 50 yards. Sights are open sights with a buck-horn rear sight and a post front sight. I centered up the target and let her rip. First shot from a cold clean bore was a bullseye. The next 3 shots cut a clover leaf about 1” away from the first shot. The fifth shot was a legitimate flyer probably due to a base void in the bullet.

The report and recoil was more than I was expecting from a 38WCF in a rather heavy rifle. I fired off 3 10-shot strings of rapid fire and swabbed the bore after each string with one wet patch, one dry patch. Powder fouling was extremely light and nothing like what I had expected. The 38WCF being a bottleneck cartridge really obturates and seals the bore efficiently, keeping the black powder fouling in the bore - not the action.

I am very pleased with the performance of this cartridge and this load in particular. I will plan to deer hunt with this load and this rifle this year since this rifle/load combination simply plants bullets right where you want them to be.

The Winchester 1866 lever action rifle. This is a faithful reproduction made by Uberti.
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38WCF black powder cartridges in a period box.
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38WCF cartridges with cast bullets. Bullets are from Accurate Mold 40-180E.
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The target.
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After the range. The washed brass cases and the BP tarnished receiver of the rifle.
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No significant fouling in the receiver after 40 black powder cartridges. Unlike a 45 Colt, the 38-40 is a bottle-necked cartridge and obturates well upon firing.
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The bore after 40 cartridges have been fired and two cotton patches run through it. No leading whatsoever is present due to proper bullet lube and proper bullet alloy.
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A great day!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Glad you like your 38/40. I have three original winchesters including this pair of 4 digit serial numbered made in the first year of production 1892.

https://i.imgur.com/5cXpWqfl.jpg

[toot]

38/40 rules!

[eastbank]

272015272016272017 38-40,s do rule.

[smithnframe]

Good lookin rifle! And one of my favorite calibers to handload.

[Randy Bohannon]

On my list for the next endeavor in lever action rifles ,sure like the 44-40WCF. A speedy .40 cal is the ticket for Antelope.

[Nobade]

It's almost like those Winchester engineers knew what they were doing back so long ago. Glad you're enjoying it!

[mack1]

I have been looking at the 38WCF as my next endeavor, looking at the neck length and comparing it to the boolits base there seems to be one lube groove protruding into the powder space or if using a BGG boolit like the accurate 40-175h the base is not supported. The only way I see to deal with the .231neck would be to move the shoulder back to get a neck of about .290 or so but this will work the brass a lot. Am I missing something or is there another boolit that will work better. I'm not so worried about the protrusion into the case as the lube contaminating the powder, black powder lube is soft and melts easily?

[Tar Heel]

I have been looking at the 38WCF as my next endeavor, looking at the neck length and comparing it to the boolits base there seems to be one lube groove protruding into the powder space or if using a BGG boolit like the accurate 40-175h the base is not supported. The only way I see to deal with the .231neck would be to move the shoulder back to get a neck of about .290 or so but this will work the brass a lot. Am I missing something or is there another boolit that will work better. I'm not so worried about the protrusion into the case as the lube contaminating the powder, black powder lube is soft and melts easily?

Mack1, referencing the bullet mentioned in the OP the bullet base protrudes into the case beyond the neck but the single lube groove of the referenced bullet is fully encased withing the neck. I am sure one could find a bullet where a lube groove would descend below the case neck but the weight of those bullets may be counterproductive to the cartridge efficiency and certainly be problematic in cycling through a period lever action where 1.60" is the absolute maximum COAL. When shooting these cartridges as a BPCR cartridge, maximum powder space is desired to get all the black powder one can into the case. Powder compression yields a few more grains and contributes to an efficient burn with less residue (at least in my case).

I have not found a more accurate bullet (pun intended) to use in these rifles either with black powder or smokeless powder. The 180gr bullet zips along at a respectable velocity which, I am embarrassed to admit, I have not chronographed yet. This may sound foolish but the recoil I felt in the rather heavy 1866 and the 1873 rifles shooting the BPCR cartridges surpassed the smokeless cartridges and made me take notice. I would surmise this cartridge to be a handy game-getter and I plan to complete my hunting season with the 1866.

So no worries with the bullet mentioned in the OP. The numbers all work out and no lube groove is in an unsupported area of the case. I have used SPG and BP-01 lube and have had no issues with wandering lubricant or melting lubricant contaminating the powders. I don't leave ammo out in the hot sun or in a hot vehicle. A day at the outdoor range and traveling to/from the range is the only exposure my ammo gets. In over 4 decades of handloading cast bullets, I have never experienced melting lubricant in my ammunition. I have been to the range on some rather hot days too. Perhaps others have had problems with this but I have had no problems with melting lubricant.

My Cap & Ball 1:1 lube can get pretty soft but I only use that on the C&B revolvers. In the dead of summer or to lube my 45-90 bullets, I use a 2:1 ratio of wax to tallow.

[Gobeyond]

Is the 38-40 made from a shortened 38-55 case and then necked down. I am assuming that the 38-55 is tapered. Just a misconception maybe. Which came first?

[veeman]

38-40 is necked down from the 44-40.

[leadeye]

I like 38-40 and have 2 Winchesters, an 1873 and an 1892, along with some handguns. It's one of those cartridges that seems to have a wide variation of chamber dimensions relative to where the shoulder starts.

[missionary5155]

Nice Winchesters !! I hope the 38 WCF remains somewhat forgotten as our home has a feeling for them also.

[mack1]

272015272016272017 38-40,s do rule.
What is the tang sight on your 73? I have one and like a peep at least for load development but I usually leave them.

[Froogal]

Well golly, I just bought some of those genuine reproduction .38 WCF boxes. Now all I need is a rifle, and some ammo. A guy has to start somewhere doesn't he?

[mack1]

Well golly, I just bought some of those genuine reproduction .38 WCF boxes. Now all I need is a rifle, and some ammo. A guy has to start somewhere doesn't he?
I once took a 6.5 x 55 home because I had a cleaning jag so this seems very reasonable to me.