Handgun for a lower 48 black bear encounter

[Chill Wills]

I ran into this guy up above our place while fishing a few nights ago. The bear and I tried to avoid each other. He had good social distance skills. Despite both our efforts we ended up crossing paths. Basically, he ziged when I zagged. There were no cubs in tow so maybe this is a he.


Yes, due to the Moose and bear in the area and the always human threat, I carry when in the outdoors.
This bear might go 250-275 pounds - that is my best guess with out giving him a bear hug and hoisting him up off the ground.
99% of the time I favor a 44 Special for the woods. For some reason the S&W 67 (38 Special) was handier and I put it on that time. I have been playing with a Lyman 200grn round nose in the 38 and had a cylinder full.

In my experience of a lifetime in the high country, I have only onetime felt the need to pull the trigger to keep an overly aggressive animal at bay. I mention that because this tool on the hip is so seldom used and is most often just additional baggage and a burden, that is until the one time it isn't. So, light and easy to carry v big enough to handle anything is the compromise.

Large animal encounters are common here. Were it you, what would you feel is enough gun on your hip. What kind of load is enough, cast of course. There is nothing else in my world.

[Bazoo]

Considering I've never taken a bear, and I don't feel burdened by carrying a handgun (I carry 24/7), I'd feel comfortable with a 44 special +P or starting 44 magnum load. For me it'd be a short barrel super blackhawk as that's what I have. Would a 357 magnum with 150+grain bullet and full charge load do it? I spect so. But i wouldn't feel comfortable with it. I've read several of the Bear Tales books by Larry Kaniut, and while it's often one in a million stories of the worst kind, it does happen.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
I would consider a 5 shot 44 Special. We have several and really they seem to fade away after 30 minutes on my small frame.
And a 44 Special spitting out a 250 grainer at 900 feet per is going to do a lot of damage to whatever it slams into. 4 more should be devastating.

[Outpost75]

Nice healthy looking bear. We have a few which wander through our neighborhood that terrorize the pit bulls and play tag with the Jack Russels and rat terriers. They have great fun playing with gutsy and fearless small dogs, but the pits are snowflakes in dog clothing and are apparently no fun at all.

264171

This fellow knows to stick to the tree line, as if he gets within 50 yards he'll get stung with rubber buckshot.

[Norske]

Read the thread about a 41Magnum against a black bear. I hunt from an outfitter's ground blind so I have a super Blackhawk loaded with a 300 gr Lee cast bullet over 16 gr of Alliant 2400. My rifle is a Marlin 45-70, but some blinds are too small to swing the rifle inside.

[Ozark mike]

44 mag is considered minimum for bear medication around here. Myself i may get a bh in .45 just for these reasons. Heres a true story just to make you think about how hard bear skull is. A feller i knew was back in the wilderness here carrying a 338 win. black bear pops up he smacks it right smack inbetween the eye gets a nice big plume of hear and skin. Bear balls up and rolls down the hill gets to the bottom jumps up and runs off. Well they go back get the dogs and go back out after it. chases it all over creation finally finding it treed puts a round into the boiler room bear hits the ground goes over looks at its head and discovered the round had glanced off the skull and took about a 6" diameter of skin and hair off its head.
So that always comes to mind when i think about bear defense. Your mileage may very though

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Say, Chill--I read your other post about fishing and Covid-19. Really glad that you maintained your social distancing with the bear. I'm sure that right now he's a real pussycat and would let you scratch his ears and rub his tummy, but I've heard that bears with Covid-19 can be really grouchy. If I knew I was going to meet him in a grouchy attitude I'd take along a .30-06, but otherwise I'd take a chance with a .45 L.C.

[Three44s]

44 mag is considered minimum for bear medication around here. Myself i may get a bh in .45 just for these reasons. Heres a true story just to make you think about how hard bear skull is. A feller i knew was back in the wilderness here carrying a 338 win. black bear pops up he smacks it right smack inbetween the eye gets a nice big plume of hear and skin. Bear balls up and rolls down the hill gets to the bottom jumps up and runs off. Well they go back get the dogs and go back out after it. chases it all over creation finally finding it treed puts a round into the boiler room bear hits the ground goes over looks at its head and discovered the round had glanced off the skull and took about a 6" diameter of skin and hair off its head.
So that always comes to mind when i think about bear defense. Your mileage may very though

I brought that very topic up on another forum with regards to hitting a bear in the head and not getting a positive result. A couple of the self professed “experts” on that forum exploded and tried to tar and feather me for even suggesting such ideas while they kept touting braining a bear in a charge.

A short time later I mentioned that discussion to a very skilled hunter and a favorite of bear hunting (he is a Tribal member and has shot a ton of them) and he not only backed my idea but told me of his identical outcome with a .30-06!

The reality is that a bear in a charge does not hold it’s head still. It bounds with the head oscillating. A skull well designed for surviving fights not with butterflies but rather other similarity equipped bears. The angle of the frontal plane of a bears skull is flatter than a cars windshield and the accounts of handgun slugs glancing off of windshields by police are numerous.

My point is this: A small handgun is no match for a charging bear. If you are lucky enough to be able to present your handgun and it is up to the job, your best shot would be to hope to connect with the junction of the two shoulder blades near the hump. You will not kill the bear that way but the strategy is to deflect the charge and if you are lucky, then be presented with a more favorable orientation of the bear to your position.

You want the bear sideways and distracted so you can stuff more rounds in his boiler room or if close and you are good under stress hit the bear in his head sideways just below the ear. That hunter with the big number of bears harvested? His favorite shot was with a .204 Ruger 2” below the ear sideways into a bears head!

Not for me no thank you! Make mine a bigger gun!

My two recommendations for a handgun for lower 48 are both in 44 magnum. I suggest the 629 Mountain Gun or the 329 Titanium/Aluminum. I own a MG and it is a real sweetie. I have shot stiff loads in the 329 (with wooden grips) and found it controllable. For a gun carried a lot and fired a little, the 329 S&W is the real deal.

Three44s

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, Three44s, they shouldn't have been so rude to you. When a bear charges it usually has it's nose pointed straight ahead and it's head tipped slightly rearward because the first thing it has in mind to do is to bite you. So, it's hard to get a head-on brain shot anyway, but besides that a bear's skull is hard, thick, and slopes rearward from it's eyes. It's kind of like a bazooka round defecting off the glacis of a tank's hull. If his head is down, you can probably brain him, but the chest is a bigger, better target. Stick around here at Castboolits, we're nicer folks.

[Beerd]

chill wills,
my opinion of what constitutes a bear gun isn't worth posting.

but that is a pretty cool looking place to fish.
..

[M-Tecs]

Actual usage and results

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/handgun-or-pistol-defense-against-bear-attack-73-cases-96-effective/#axzz6QiOrjJdY

[c0wb0y84]

Isn’t there something like a 4-3-1 rule or something like that for a “bear handgun”? A gun with a .4 caliber or larger, at least a 300 grain boolit moving 1000fps or faster. Not many bears around here to make practical use of this information

[Ozark mike]

I brought that very topic up on another forum with regards to hitting a bear in the head and not getting a positive result. A couple of the self professed “experts” on that forum exploded and tried to tar and feather me for even suggesting such ideas while they kept touting braining a bear in a charge.

A short time later I mentioned that discussion to a very skilled hunter and a favorite of bear hunting (he is a Tribal member and has shot a ton of them) and he not only backed my idea but told me of his identical outcome with a .30-06!

The reality is that a bear in a charge does not hold it’s head still. It bounds with the head oscillating. A skull well designed for surviving fights not with butterflies but rather other similarity equipped bears. The angle of the frontal plane of a bears skull is flatter than a cars windshield and the accounts of handgun slugs glancing off of windshields by police are numerous.

My point is this: A small handgun is no match for a charging bear. If you are lucky enough to be able to present your handgun and it is up to the job, your best shot would be to hope to connect with the junction of the two shoulder blades near the hump. You will not kill the bear that way but the strategy is to deflect the charge and if you are lucky, then be presented with a more favorable orientation of the bear to your position.

You want the bear sideways and distracted so you can stuff more rounds in his boiler room or if close and you are good under stress hit the bear in his head sideways just below the ear. That hunter with the big number of bears harvested? His favorite shot was with a .204 Ruger 2” below the ear sideways into a bears head!

Not for me no thank you! Make mine a bigger gun!

My two recommendations for a handgun for lower 48 are both in 44 magnum. I suggest the 629 Mountain Gun or the 329 Titanium/Aluminum. I own a MG and it is a real sweetie. I have shot stiff loads in the 329 (with wooden grips) and found it controllable. For a gun carried a lot and fired a little, the 329 S&W is the real deal.

Three44s

Yep even seen it happen with a dog. neighbor shot our dog a young Sheppard with a .22 and the bullet passed under the skin but bounced off the skull that dog lived but he got the other one. should of shot the little (insert opinionated word here) but he was only like 16 or so.
But anyways if you have to just be aware it can and has happend. I personally carry a bfr in 45-70 with an accurate 460-502p

[Tripplebeards]

I’d just pump away on my 7600 chambered in 35 Whelen and leave my pistols home. I’m one heck of a shot, and shot a few black bear in my life...and still wouldn’t bet my life on drilling a bear in the melon at a full charge. I’d keep my 329NG strapped on for a last resort to put it against the bears skull while it’s chewing on me. I have removed a few nuisance Raccoons and possum that have been causing destruction to my property in the last couple of days with head shots. I placed a few 22lr bullets (taking head on shots) at the wrong angle and missed the brain on one or two. Entered in the nasal area and veered off into the neck. The varmints acted like they weren’t even hit. A quick follow up shot took care of the issue. What ever you use just make sure it has a large capacity magazine and your able to get off a couple of quick follow up shots if needed. BTW black bear are more afraid of you than you are of them. Most will run in the opposite direction if you yell at them and raise your hands above your head and wave your arms to let them know you are a human and bigger than them. You just don’t want to take a chance.

[Chill Wills]

Actual usage and results

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/handgun-or-pistol-defense-against-bear-attack-73-cases-96-effective/#axzz6QiOrjJdY

M-Tecs - That was a good link. 72 or so accounts. Good read. interestingly enough - Not a 44 Special cited. (my choice in side arm since the early 1980's.) The irony is the one day I don't have my 44 I end up close to this guy.
I will still stick with the 44 Special for most woods work. I am guessing that long blunt 200grn 38 I had in hand would have been tons better than just throwing rocks. But still, my forty four will be back on my side. RCBS "K" 269grn as cast and 825 fps.

Beerd - You have a good eye for the trout water. Runoff just peaked and the water cleared up though still very high. It should be better fishing each day.

Outpost75 - Nice bear picture! I assume you took that picture at your place? Rubber buck shot:D I like it!


BTW- you guys out there telling me your carrying rifles aren't getting any fishing done with a 30-06 on your shoulder. :p

[Three44s]

Well, Three44s, they shouldn't have been so rude to you. When a bear charges it usually has it's nose pointed straight ahead and it's head tipped slightly rearward because the first thing it has in mind to do is to bite you. So, it's hard to get a head-on brain shot anyway, but besides that a bear's skull is hard, thick, and slopes rearward from it's eyes. It's kind of like a bazooka round defecting off the glacis of a tank's hull. If his head is down, you can probably brain him, but the chest is a bigger, better target. Stick around here at Castboolits, we're nicer folks.

Thanks!

Yes, the members are nicer folks here and that’s why I hang out here much more!

I pointed that all out as well, the head attitude in a charge. ...... Oh, you’d thought I had suggested voting for a Dem! The way those two carried on, one from Alaska the other from Montana and it just goes to show .... there are internet jockeys and there are folks from out of the brush. And I will tell anyone, I am no expert with bears at all. But I have to put cows down, horses occasionally and I always want my bullet to be perpendicular to the actual skull bone and none of those animals can hold a candle to a bears head.

My wife and I were at the County Fair one year and they had a bears skull there on display .... mighty impressive. After some trusted friends witnessed what they swore was a grizzly on our cow mountain range almost 20 years ago, I have been doing a lot of thinking and studying on the matter.

The bear must have been restless and eventually moved on but I stayed the course and began fielding, shooting and handloading/casting in 44 Mag inspire of that.

There are two ways a Rancher is going to get tied up with a bear, either horseback or on foot. I could not envision having a long gun when I needed it the most. The left handguns in the mix.

I knew it would have to be a revolver to get enough power, though the 10mm is close. And the best power/weight/bulkiness option seemed to center around the 44 Mag. By 2000, I had three of them, a Redhawk, a Smith MG and lastly a SRH. The SRH (44) got traded for an SRH in 480 Ruger.

Three44s

[Rainier]

This guy and a friend keep showing up around these parts...

264192

That's about 25/30 feet from my house. I usually have a S&W 329PD loaded with 429421's on my hip. The weight of the scandium makes it a joy to carry but not so much fun to shoot. (Big shout out to Shuz for the grip and load suggestion!) I suspect that your 44 Special will get the job done without much difficulty as long as you have it with you ;)

[M-Tecs]

A very good friend has an interesting black bear story. He had just got out of his stand over bait and was walking out when he spotted a large black bear heading his way. It was just past legal shooting time and he was in the open so he opted to lay down to not spook the bear for the next day. When the bear got to the trail he was on it turn and was walking directly towards him so he shot it at about 10 yards with a 7mm Rem mag with a 175 grain jacketed. The first shoot clipped the top of the nose and traveled the length of the nose and it followed the curvature of the skull but never penetrated. At the shot the bear grabbed it's face and started spinning around. The second shot dropped it. As to proof I did see the skull and you could clearly see the bullet path on the skull.

I've only shot a couple of black bears and I found them easy to kill.

That being said an actual charge is much different but personally for a black bear handgun 44 Special, 45 Colt, 10mm Auto or 44 Mag would be fine with me.

[osteodoc08]

Great suggestions already.

On the scandium smiths, watch your top straps. Several rounds down range really wear that thin stainless “shield”. I know GregS has some experience with those as well.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

One of those Glock 10mm would be a bit lighter than a wheel gun although the bullet weight is perhaps less than ideal. I think being armed in the woods is important and having at least a man stopper is far better than nothing.

[MrWolf]

I carry my Xdm 10mm in a chest rig. A few years before I moved here they killed a 450lb black bear about 100 yards or so from my place. Even got some pics of Momma and three cubs. Doubt I will ever need to use it but I might if my dog Ruger decided to play hero and protect me.

[Markopolo]

i would say your 44 special is a fine weapon against blackies. You like the gun and have been carrying it for a long time... confident in the weapon...

on a charging bear, you shoot for center of pass and keep firing till the bear is down. 5-6 shots from a 44 cal anything is a lot of lead... but most of the shots will be off center I figure, as nerves come into play.. shoulders break the bear down and chest just kills it. any hit is going to have an effect on the bear, head shot just stuns them unless you come in from the side. i hit one once from the side near the ear with a 44 and it blew the top of the skull clean off along with most of the brain... not a pretty sight... i was aiming for behind the skull . it was a very close shot.

my wife carries the 38 lady chik cuz it fits her small hand... i load it down with 4g of bullseye and the 358429.. at first I was a bit worried about this load, but she has a good grip on the gun and practices with it.. and it fits her hand..

my son carries a 357 with the same boolit loaded with 13g of 2400... he likes the gun and says its easier on his hand then the 44 I shoot.

i am a huge fan of the regular ol 44 mag loaded with the lee 310's shooting a max load of 2400.. we don't have brown bears around here on my island but see black bears almost every time we are out in the woods part of the year. I got used to the combo, know where it hits, and am comfy with it...

moral of the story is, shoot what you are used to, comfortable with, can stay on target with after successive shots. you might only have a second or 2, and trying to wield a ungainly hand cannon your not used to my not get you anywhere except mauled or eaten... and most of all, practice.. be a quick draw kinda guy... we use stumps... walking around on a practice session and I yell "bear" and the wife and kid draw and shoot into the nearest stump short range... even with all the bears around here, i have yet to have to shoot one that wasnt being hunted for self defense... but I have had my pistol out a few times and even fired a warning shot. i still practice.

hope this helps.

[popper]

My only encounter was at Jenny lake and all I had was a hatchet. Fortunately we went opposite rather fast. I was ~14 yrs old.

[Chill Wills]

i would say your 44 special is a fine weapon against blackies. You like the gun and have been carrying it for a long time... confident in the weapon...
.

Markopolo - good info. Tho I only quoted a little to save reposting the whole thing, I think your whole post is full of good real world info.
It is likely just good luck I have not had any more large cat, bear or mama moose encounters considering the lifetime spent out among them as well as the location of the homes I have lived in.

I think there is a lot of great insight from all who have taken the time to post. I think I need to keep the 44 special on me from here forward.
Thanks and keep them coming. Especially the great bear pictures.

[Norske]

How about the lowly 480 Ruger? 400gr bullet @1000fps is possible and (according to a former neighbor) easier to shoot than a hot 44 magnum S&W or SBH.

[dragon813gt]

I carry a Glock G20 filled w/ rounds that are loaded to the cartridges potential. I can control this pistol easily. I can’t say the same for revolvers chambered for anything above 357 Magnum. I’m concerned w/ quick follow up shots and I can’t achieve this w/ the likes of a 44 Magnum.

[MT Gianni]

I alternate between a 44 special Lipsey BH, 45 Blackhawk and Smith 69 44 mag in bear country. Interesting comments about hitting a bear in the skull. Unless you are shooting almost straight down you have a target at an angle with heavy bone. I believe to the side of a head pointed down and approaching is far better in an attempt to break a shoulder. Most bear stories I have listened to directly from the shooter mention how quickly a bear goes down when you hit heavy bone. They may not stay down but if you can put one down for a second or two the follow up shot is much better.

[Thumbcocker]

i would say your 44 special is a fine weapon against blackies. You like the gun and have been carrying it for a long time... confident in the weapon...

on a charging bear, you shoot for center of pass and keep firing till the bear is down. 5-6 shots from a 44 cal anything is a lot of lead... but most of the shots will be off center I figure, as nerves come into play.. shoulders break the bear down and chest just kills it. any hit is going to have an effect on the bear, head shot just stuns them unless you come in from the side. i hit one once from the side near the ear with a 44 and it blew the top of the skull clean off along with most of the brain... not a pretty sight... i was aiming for behind the skull . it was a very close shot.

my wife carries the 38 lady chik cuz it fits her small hand... i load it down with 4g of bullseye and the 358429.. at first I was a bit worried about this load, but she has a good grip on the gun and practices with it.. and it fits her hand..

my son carries a 357 with the same boolit loaded with 13g of 2400... he likes the gun and says its easier on his hand then the 44 I shoot.

i am a huge fan of the regular ol 44 mag loaded with the lee 310's shooting a max load of 2400.. we don't have brown bears around here on my island but see black bears almost every time we are out in the woods part of the year. I got used to the combo, know where it hits, and am comfy with it...

moral of the story is, shoot what you are used to, comfortable with, can stay on target with after successive shots. you might only have a second or 2, and trying to wield a ungainly hand cannon your not used to my not get you anywhere except mauled or eaten... and most of all, practice.. be a quick draw kinda guy... we use stumps... walking around on a practice session and I yell "bear" and the wife and kid draw and shoot into the nearest stump short range... even with all the bears around here, i have yet to have to shoot one that wasnt being hunted for self defense... but I have had my pistol out a few times and even fired a warning shot. i still practice.

hope this helps.

Always good to hear from those who have been there and done that.

[pmer]

I tried a 10mm for this idea but just couldn't get the thing to be happy at the upper end of its capability. Got a plain Jane model 29 with a 4" barrel. It's light enough and has a little more velocity than a snubby.

[kootne]

:mrgreen:There is another beargun theory that hasn't been brought up. Always pack a .25 auto, never go alone. If charged by a bear, shoot your companion in the kneecap. Then run.:mrgreen:

[doulos]

Actual usage and results

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/handgun-or-pistol-defense-against-bear-attack-73-cases-96-effective/#axzz6QiOrjJdY

read it.Very interesting. I was surprised at the success of the smaller calibers.

[dverna]

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/list-fatal-black-bear-attacks-north-america-last-20-years/

Seems like a very unlikely event. Note that none of the victims had any kind of gun. I have lived in bear country for 7 years and never had a bear look me over like a buffet bar. They just run away.

If a bear starts acting like I might be dinner a shot in the dirt will likely send him scurrying. If not, I better get lucky with the other 15 rounds. I have seen a bear run...they are amazingly fast when motivated. I would shoot them like any other attacker...center mass until the threat is defeated or the magazine is empty. KISS.

BTW, the bears here in upper Michigan do not seem hard to kill or agressive. Most of ones the locals harvest are 140-225 lbs. 350 is a BIG one. So I opt for more chances to make repeated hits than hoping for a well placed shot at a running target with a larger caliber. I carry a Glock 22. It is all I can handle accurately and I can "waste" a warning shot that in all likelihood will defuse the situation,

[JoeJames]

In the wintertime when walking the dog around the place I usually carry a Ruger BH 4 1/2" 44 Special with Oregon Trail laser cast .431" 240 grain SWC's on top of 6.5 grains of Unique for a velocity of @900 fps. I carry it in a re-purposed M3 shoulder holster. Carries nicely under my field jacket. After reading the comments I think I am in pretty good shape for our small black bears, feral hogs and feral dogs. I can hit with it, and know that I can.

[1hole]

I've lived in the southern Blue Ridge Mountains since 1968. Used to deer hunt, trout fish and backpack a bit. I've seen quite a few black bear but never felt threatened so I've never pulled a gun on one, never mind shot one, nor do I know anyone who has. But the big ones are BIG and they do move fast when motivated.

As a practical matter for most social work with bipeds and for all bears I see the .357 and .44 mags as the best choices. For ME, it's the .44 .... for others maybe the .357 will do. But a 9mm? Well, guess I'd rather have that than a cue stick. Remember the 9 mm is just an auto loading +P .38 Special with light for caliber bullets and that ain't much for motivated bear medicine!

I have a .357 Black Hawk and a S&W 29 I'm comfortable with. Prefer to carry the .357 with 170gr. SWC but feel much safer around bears with the big .44 mag loaded hot with H-110 under my own 250 gr. SWC boolits; that will break most really big bones.

I've often wondered about experienced shooters being so sensitive that even a recoil absorbing single action .357 with hot 170 gr loads is too much.

My wife and I practice with lighter reloads while concentrating on trigger squeeze plus rapid sight realignment. We just let the recoil from an occasional few full power loads take care of itself.

[koger]

We are seeing a population explosion among the black bears here in my part of KY. They have been seeing several younger bears within a mile of the house. And they aint afraid, 150-200# bears. One went for a dip the other day in the lake, climbed out on the dock of marina and took a nap. About 30 miles away, at a farm we co own with the wifes 2 brothers, and they are thick out there. They did a number on our field corn when it was in the milk stage 2 years ago, out of 200 acres total, they ate about 5 acres, there would be places gone in the field, twice the size of a house, with big piles of bear scat. I got 6 on one trail camera going into the fields, the littlest one was about #300, the biggest had to be pushing 500. We have a very screwed up season here, it is a money racket, and they dont allow baiting. Every bear that has been killed was killed over bait, the only way you can keep a fall bear in the area. They caught my brother in law, fined him $700 and court costs. I know when I see one, if I have a gun, he will be invited home to dinner. 5acres of field corn, at 165 bushels of corn per acre, at $7 per bushell, hurts my bill fold. Most folks hereabouts have decided the same thing, and thumb their noses at the game laws. One guy called the game wardens repeately about a bear eating his cow feed, eating his garden. Finally one of the game wardens told him to get his shotgun and shoot the bear, he would wait on the line. Well he hears the farmer get his gun, shuck around in the chamber, go outside and "bawoom". He waits on the line and he hears the screen door shut and the farmer comes back in and picks up the phone. The warden asks him well, did that work. The old farmer says it shore did, that deer slug dropped him in his tracks!! The game warden has to go out and pick up the bear, do a ton of paperwork, but doesnt do anything to the farmer. He does question him about shooting the deer slug, the farmer tells him I figured if it was for a deer, might work on a bear. I usually care a .357, .44 sp or .44 mag. A .41 mag or .45 colt would do as well, i suspect.

[725]

I worry about those who plan to carry a .38 for bear defense. Seems a might light for the encounter. If that's what you got, it's far better than an empty hand. The one boolit I would consider would be the "Bullet For All Seasons" in Glenn Fryexl's article. About 215 grains of semi-wad cutter pushed as hard as the frame would allow. Having gotten a few bears, which admittedly weren't hard to kill, I still cling to the bigger is better school of thought. For an interesting search on the web, look up Bella Twin and her 1953 record brown bear kill. (Not the wrestling twin girls named Bella, either). Bella Twin a Cree woman in Canada.

[sharps4590]

Never had an encounter with a bear, even when I was looking for one!! When I was looking for one I was carrying a rifle. When we lived in NW Wyoming and I fished the tall and uncut there was the possibility of also running into Ol' Ephraim. I carried a Freedom Amrs Mod. 97 in 45 Colt loaded with 300 gr. hard cast at 1050 fps. For a hunting load that's more than adequate fo black bear. If an altercation occurred I would hope it would have been enough. Had I bumped into a griz….well, thank God I didn't. Around here it's not impossible one could run into a black bear. Given there ain't no griz in Missouri and I'm almost 20 years older, my load has dropped to a 255 gr. KTSWC at about 850 fps or my 44 Spl. with the ever faithful 429421 in my 696 S&W at about the same velocity. I would hope either would be adequate.

I'd prefer a rifle..as I'm sure most would but, as mentioned, a fella ain't doin' much fishin' if he's packin' a rifle.

[Lloyd Smale]

I live in black bear country. theres bear in my yard every year and at camp too. I don't ever think about strapping on ANY gun because of bear. now if it were brown bear or griz territory I might reconsider but black bear are not aggressive and 99 times out of a 20 percent of the time all you will see is there back end running away and the other 80 there long gone before you even see them. lately I have been carrying a handgun when I walk the dog in the woods though. But not for bear. The wolf population has exploaded around here and I hear them howling every night and have ran up on them a few times this summer on the walking trail. Even then I don't carry a gun to protect myself. Its more to protect my dog if he is attacked. Black bear protection is a walter middy thing. Guys like to think there dangerous because it makes them feel a bit more manly being brave enough to walk in the woods where they are. Even the bear hunters up here that use dogs for the most part use a lowly little 357. Ive killed quite a few of them and if anything a deer is harder to kill then a black bear. Most black bear when wounded seldom run more then 50 yards and lay down. A wounded deer will run for miles. I always tell the story of when I was a young lad watching my ma shoe black bear off our porch with a broom. I chuckle at the city tourists up here. First thing they will ask is if theres those evil man killing black bear around. Like I said this is big black bear territory. probably the largest consentration of black bear in the state is in our county and ive never heard a single story of an unwounded black bear attacking a man. NOT ONE.

[Tripplebeards]

^^^ yep, I agree. I know a lot of people got out of hunting with dogs years ago because the wolves keep killing them.

Imo, Realistically any handgun will do for a black bear because all you’re basically carrying a noisemaker to scare it away. A bear with cubs is about the only realistic threat I’ve ever encountered. She trees her cubs and stood up on her hind legs looking at me and my buddy. We had about a 100 yards or less between us. My buddy and I backed out of the area. The cubs came down and they went peacefully in the opposite direction. I did have a little black bear, approx 150 pounds, walk right up to me and I poked it in the nose with my cocked crossbow. I was squaring in the ground looking at another arrow that was stuck into a tree at the time that passed through a 7’6” Bruin that’s rug is currently in my wall. Anyways the little bear had its nose against the ground and never saw me till I poked it. I turned around and ran the opposite direction....and so did I. I got half way up Into my tree stand to wait for my guide and heard another crack. There was a 250 pound plus bear under me. I didn’t get out till the guide came to get me and help me retrieve my bear. I’m sure if I would have yelled and put my hand up a both bear would have fled from the scene. I was hunting and Didn’t want to spook away my entertainment at the time.

I’ve never been in Grizzly country and to me that’s whole different game. Imo packing a pistol would like taking a knife to a gun fight with a Griz.

This has got me thinking now I think I’d rather carry my Ruger P 85 Mark 11 9 mm since that holds 16 rounds versus my 44 Magnum that takes me a second or two to recover from a shot. I can load up 16 in the mag. I’d use some Lyman devastator HPs for some shock value. I can pull the trigger as fast as I possible and all my shot will land where I aim.

[smkummer]

Just last year added a charter arms 44 special 4” target bulldog to my collection. It weighs something like 19 oz. unloaded. I see it’s safe for tier 2 loads. That a 245 grain bullet at 900-1000 FPS out of that barrel. Out of 5 shots from the gun, most likely a few will be lethal to the black bear. While the gun is a bit uncomfortable with loads getting close to those specs., that will be the last thing on my mind should I need to pump the bear with rounds.
I too load that 195-200 grain bullet for 38 special in a plus P loading. Currently only pinging steel with it as it makes a bigger “ting”. I think it’s a great bullet for improving 38 performance but if given the choice, I would carry the charter 44 bulldog.

[DougGuy]

The thing you need to consider is not how much gun do I need to stop a black bear, but how much gun do I need to come out alive in a worse case scenario, and carry adequate iron for THAT.

It seems downright silly to carry a 44 Special when in the same size gun you can have SO much more power in the 44 Magnum. 45 Colt is one of the lightest cylinders and barrels in a Ruger because of the size of the ammo, and can be loaded to out perform the 44 Magnum in a suitably strong gun.

The real bottom line? Carry as much gun as you can shoot accurately. DA Ruger, DA S&W, loaded as hot as you or the gun or both can handle. Any excess of energy not needed after putting an animal down is inconsequential.

[MT Chambers]

I've shot big black bears here in Kanada, and if allowed a handgun I'd go .44 mag. .45 Colt heavy load or .454 Casull, these are made in small enough revolvers for carry. I've shot big blackies with a .44 mag. Marlin with 300 gr. LBT bullets and the end result was positive.

[dverna]

Was thinking about this some more...yep...that can be a problem.

I have never had to shoot a man or critter that wanted to kill me. My little pea brain says that if a bear rushes me, I will not be Cool Hand Luke. I allows focus on the front sight, but will I do that when attacked or just keep looking the bear and pulling the trigger? Basically point shooting??? I would hope muscle memory and training would make me use the front sight but I do not know.

Knowing I have a Glock, will my panic revert me to throwing out as many rounds at the threat as I can? Would knowing I only had 6 shots subconsciously condition me to be more deliberate?

Comments from those how have been in harm's way (critter or man) would be interesting.

Training conditions us to perform a certain way and not always the best. I will always remember a story about a Police department that investigated police shootings. Back then, they used revolvers. During range practice they were encouraged to police their brass by pocketing the empties before a reload...to avoid having to clean up the range floor. They found that a couple of men who had died had empty casings in their pockets after being killed in shootouts. What if those men had not wasted time pocketing brass...would they have lived?

[Dapaki]

You all must have some BIG black bear! I live in the center of Minnesota, bear are so common that I see them about as much as I do deer, just not in the same numbers. Our CO's carry 9mm, more than enough to stop a raging bear if one would be called to do so but most of our bears are skittish and just standing on tiptoes and spreading your arms, and yelling will scare the crap (literal expression) out of the animal.

.357 is more than enough to stop a bear around here, 45-70 would be EXTREME.

[winelover]

Bigger is always better, both in bullet weight and caliber .....................if you're willing to put up with the increased weight. I don't feel under gunned with my 44 Special Bulldog that weighs less than 20 ounces unloaded. You need to nearly double that weight to move up to 44 Magnum.

Winelover

[pmer]

Knowing I have a Glock, will my panic revert me to throwing out as many rounds at the threat as I can? Would knowing I only had 6 shots subconsciously condition me to be more deliberate?

Comments from those how have been in harm's way (critter or man) would be helpful

The only time I felt harm was in my way was with a rattle snake at my feet. I had an open carry 45 ACP on my hip, loaded, safety on. Without a thought the gun came out and was making noise till it stopped moving. No time for using the sites that I was aware of, I seemed to be more conscious the bullets striking the ground on and near the snake. For those couple seconds my brain seemed to be in a different gear. I had a prairie dog rifle in my off hand and 3-4 rounds left in the 1911.

:kidding: Now if your using a Glock half the shots will be missed :kidding:

[Three44s]

The thing you need to consider is not how much gun do I need to stop a black bear, but how much gun do I need to come out alive in a worse case scenario, and carry adequate iron for THAT.

It seems downright silly to carry a 44 Special when in the same size gun you can have SO much more power in the 44 Magnum. 45 Colt is one of the lightest cylinders and barrels in a Ruger because of the size of the ammo, and can be loaded to out perform the 44 Magnum in a suitably strong gun.

The real bottom line? Carry as much gun as you can shoot accurately. DA Ruger, DA S&W, loaded as hot as you or the gun or both can handle. Any excess of energy not needed after putting an animal down is inconsequential.

“Carry as much gun as you can accurately shoot” .... pretty much sums it up!

For years I avoided the .44 Mag like the plague, instead drawing the line at .357 and later at .45 ACP. The grizzly bear sighting on our cow mountain range changed the perception of what I could need. Black bears were a nothing as far as I was concerned. While that grizzly apparently moved on, the increased prevalence of black bears as well as their loss of fear with some individuals is a factor to recon with.

So my first experience with the .44 Mag was pretty harsh as an owner. I was shooting factory loads to acquire brass and gun and cartridge were stone cold new to me. A Ruger Redhawk with factory wooden grips is hardly the way to begin!

I soon found that a pair of Uncle Mikes rubber grips fit my mitts much better and through loading the cartridge down to about 100 FPS faster than .44 Special levels (but in magnum cases) that the .44mag is a real kitty cat. I bought empty brass by much greater amounts and have not bought anything factory in the chambering since.

Once I became bored with the 44spl. +100 power level, I raised the bar. Step by step I discovered another “rung on the ladder” and loaded higher and higher. Changing powders, primers and bullets along the way.

Even today I always begin with those “specials plus 100” in a session and work my way up. My top end is the upper limits of the revolver within reason but only a cylinder or even less.

I know I am a broken record on the subject but my over the top favorite load for the 44 Mag is the RCBS 250k boolit in a magnum case lit by a Mag primer (I like the Federal 155) launched by upto 12 gr of HS6 (my load is 11.8 gr.). It is not a bear stompin’ load but it would do in a pinch because it just about duplicates Elmer Keith’s “44 Special Magnum” load he tried to get the ammo makers to load.

1176 FPS out of a 7.5” barrel vs Keith’s 1200 FPS

In my 4” Smith MG, the above HS6 load produces 1066 FPS with just 7 FPS SD. It an authoritative load but still sweet as to recoil.

I can already hear the chorus warming up extolling the virtues of just stuffing more Unique instead of switching powders to the likes of HS6 but that reaction misses the point. We are talking cast boolits here and softening recoil impulses. HS6 @ 12 gr or a bit less keeps peak pressures in the “range” for lead and “more” Unique does not.

So my point is a 44 Mag can be whatever reasonable you want it to be, it’s your choice. Plus the superior flexibility of the cartridge when hand loaded and cast for is EXCEPTIONAL!

Three44s

[Natividad Webb]

Well, I'll take note of these. You never know when you're going to run into a bear in the wild.

[white eagle]

I would think that these iron clad bears seeking human food that are terrorizing the lower 48 need the U.S military
do not venture out with any gun stay home even if you can shoot like Annie Oakley

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I live in black bear country. theres bear in my yard every year and at camp too. I don't ever think about strapping on ANY gun because of bear. now if it were brown bear or griz territory I might reconsider but black bear are not aggressive and 99 times out of a 20 percent of the time all you will see is there back end running away and the other 80 there long gone before you even see them. lately I have been carrying a handgun when I walk the dog in the woods though. But not for bear. The wolf population has exploaded around here and I hear them howling every night and have ran up on them a few times this summer on the walking trail. Even then I don't carry a gun to protect myself. Its more to protect my dog if he is attacked. Black bear protection is a walter middy thing. Guys like to think there dangerous because it makes them feel a bit more manly being brave enough to walk in the woods where they are. Even the bear hunters up here that use dogs for the most part use a lowly little 357. Ive killed quite a few of them and if anything a deer is harder to kill then a black bear. Most black bear when wounded seldom run more then 50 yards and lay down. A wounded deer will run for miles. I always tell the story of when I was a young lad watching my ma shoe black bear off our porch with a broom. I chuckle at the city tourists up here. First thing they will ask is if theres those evil man killing black bear around. Like I said this is big black bear territory. probably the largest consentration of black bear in the state is in our county and ive never heard a single story of an unwounded black bear attacking a man. NOT ONE.

I tend to agree Lloyd but a hungry boar bear will attack and eat a human. Many documented cases of that.

[megasupermagnum]

You all must have some BIG black bear! I live in the center of Minnesota, bear are so common that I see them about as much as I do deer, just not in the same numbers. Our CO's carry 9mm, more than enough to stop a raging bear if one would be called to do so but most of our bears are skittish and just standing on tiptoes and spreading your arms, and yelling will scare the crap (literal expression) out of the animal.

.357 is more than enough to stop a bear around here, 45-70 would be EXTREME.

I don't see tons of bear down by me. I live by St. Cloud. I spend a lot of time around Brainerd, Huntersville, Akely, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a bear that wasn't running away. They are so smart and docile. Not like the deer, that stare at you. My family has lived around central MN for generations, and I honestly cannot remember a single person who has even had a close encounter. Many of my family hunted them until the DNR stopped selling tags without outrageous wait times. On the other hand I've had some odd encounters with bucks. My grandpa was clobbered to a pulp by a deer in Hutchinson back when he was 25-30 years old to save another person who was also being attacked. He spent days in the hospital, and the story is still posted at Hutch manufacturing.

I have no idea what a brown bear is like, but black bears are awesome creatures. The keep to themselves, and don't bother anybody. The worst they do is steal food.

[Three44s]

Some neighbors of mine had a black bear growling at them behind their house the other day.

Three44s

[megasupermagnum]

Some neighbors of mine had a black bear growling at them behind their house the other day.

Three44s

Black bears don't growl. They moan if scared, as well as snap their teeth, both of which are signs of fear. But they do not growl.

[M-Tecs]

Some call it a roar some call it a growl. I had two large bears do this when I was setting bait before the season opened. I was backing the bait in on foot and they either didn't hear me or didn't care. They were fighting over the remaining bait. I believe the largest would have went 450 plus. I admit my 44 Mag Ruger Blackhawk didn't seem like I was over gunned at the time. That was about double the size of the one I took when the season was open.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp1qqMfQ-5k


I've been about 60 yards away from 9 foot grizzly bears a couple of times. The power and speed they have is truly impressive. I've never killed one but a very good friend has a grizzly bear guide service. He has personally been on site when 200 plus grizzly bears have been taken. He has been charged by client wounded bear numerous times. When he first started he used a 300 Win Mag than a 338 Win Mag and he settled on 375 H&H. A couple of clients used 338 Lapua Mags they equaled or surpassed the 375 for thumping them.

[M-Tecs]

Twenty-five fatal black bear attacks have occurred in North America during the last 20 years. Here are the stories behind each.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/list-fatal-black-bear-attacks-north-america-last-20-years/

My sister knew this lady and the attack was about 1/2 mile from my sisters house.

Lana Hollingsworth (61) - July 25, 2011 - Pinetop-Lakeside, Arizona
Hollingsworth was attacked by a 250 lb black bear while walking her dog at a country club. Nearly a month later and after eleven surgeries, she died from a massive brain hemorrhage, which doctors believe was a result of the attack. The bear was tracked, shot, and killed.

[megasupermagnum]

Whatever is in that video is not black bear, maybe some is. in fact near the end seems to be a wolf. The following site has been incredibly informative. Here is a fight between bears, surprisingly quiet. https://bear.org/do-black-bears-growl/

At 1.25 black bear attacks per year in the entire united states of America, I think it is safe to say it is no concern.

[M-Tecs]

This is from your site https://bear.org/do-black-bears-growl/

"sometimes the huffing has a throaty quality. Also, bears sometimes sound a bit throaty when they pounce, blow, and slap the ground. Whether these are growls depends upon each person’s definition.

If a person ever were to hear a growl, it seems like it should be during a fight. In this video-taped fight, we hear loud, pulsing, deep-throated sounds. Researchers are not sure what to call those sounds other than simply describing them."

I've only witnessed one bear fight between what appeared two large males. The sounds I heard were very close to the sound a 2:11 in the last video only somewhat more throaty and much more frequent. One site claimed the last video was a mating fight. The one I witnessed was much more of a serious fight than shown in the video. I had a deep freeze go bad and in the first trip I had placed about 20 pounds of questionable venison summer sausage a bunch of bakery thrown out donuts/pastries. This was the third time I had placed the summer sausage/donuts/pastries at that bait sight. I had gone back to my truck to get a 40 pound bag of dog food but the landowner was driving by and we shot the breeze for close to an hour. When I went back they were in full out fight. I guess it possible that the were burping or farting but considering into went on for several minutes I kind of doubt that was what was the source of the noise.

The 1.25 per year is fatal attacks not total attacks.

[Norske]

A pair of blacks fought about 50 yards from my ground blind one day of an outfitted Canadian hunt. It was not quiet. The "bush" kept me from seeing them, and I wasn't going into the thick stuff for a closer look. Everywhere we've traveled from Glacier Park NW to Denali Park we've been told that where black bear share space with grizzlies, the blacks are the more aggressive. I'll believe the black bear hating locals, thank you.

[MOA]

44,s have always had a special place in my heart when hunting. Carry 8" 29 when elk hunting and for desert pigs. Carry the bulldog when fishing. Lots of blacks along the Salt river.

https://i.postimg.cc/wj9YHQ9S/20180701-134757.jpg (https://postimg.cc/svHN4SQc)


https://i.postimg.cc/kgLwt4PN/20190524-114641.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Bjc2rJ6t)

[Rainier]

At 1.25 black bear attacks per year in the entire united states of America, I think it is safe to say it is no concern.

Good for you! I totally support your right to not be concerned with bears.
For me, I’ll prioritize my safety and continue carrying a revolver on my hip - better to have and not need than need and not have.

[Chill Wills]

The 1.25 per year is fatal attacks not total attacks.

This is a key point.

They are a great many human - bear interactions in Colorado annually. When they happen in the mountain towns, they get press. Often it is the bear that gets removed. Bear interaction is on the rise as the state's population has quadrupled in my lifetime. I have no idea how many bears stick there nose under the tent or trail encounters go unreported each year. And, to whom would you report? They are unreported. Likely most bear caused injury makes it to some list but I can tell you in my years firefighting/ambulance/rescue, there was nothing that required notice in the reports to document these less than fatal events. I think lack of data plays a part in saying these event rarely happen.

For me, frequency of events does not play into being prepared. Flat tires are rare. No mater how often or not, I carry a spare tire. I wear seat belts even though I have never been in a bad accident. I keep a scoop shovel, lumber saw and axe in the truck - just cause. They get used little but glad to have them when needed.

I open carry a side arm on trails and in the back country for a multitude of reasons. Two legged threats are far more common than bears. Man's best friend off leash has been the cause of many a harmful events on the trail, and emergency services (me) would be called to respond.

I carry for all these reasons. I have never shot a high country bear. Never had reason to. I think any day I get to see one is a good day. I have watched unnoticed as one moves around looking for food. Turning over logs and rocks or eating the chokecherries, leaves, branches and all, up behind the house.

I guess I am surprised at the (few) posts about bears being a none threat and the message almost sounds like having a handgun with you for bears is all about ones ego and not needed. It almost goes with out saying that this group, a group of shooters and gun owners can so easily bring to the woods a handgun they already own. I do. So no problem there.

Thanks for all the good info. I am happy to have had access to the links posted here and gained the info on this subject.

I will be with handgun as always. Living in the USA is still free (for the time anyway) and I will use my rights. Leaning hard on my 44 Special rights.

[444ttd]

back about 20 or so years ago(when PA game commission had a 3 day doe season), i was hunting doe on a tuesday(2nd day of doe). i had my freezer full of deer meat, i killed a buck and doe this year, but i had one more tag and besides, do you know how beautiful the woods are when the sun is coming up? breathtaking!!!!! well i didn't shoot a doe that day, but i could have. it was around 12:30 - 1 pm when i decided i've had enough of deer this year. then all of sudden my neck hairs stand up and i feel that i am being watched. i slowly scan the brush and when i get to back of me....a black bear is sitting there about 40 yards from me. oh, thats the reason why i feel that i am being watched. now, its not the first time i have seen a bear. i have seen a bear/bears every other year since i was 12, so its no big deal to me.

i figure that when i stand up that will be enuff of bear and that he leave quickly. well, i stand up and instantly the bear goes on all fours. so i said or words to that effect, "all right, get!!!" and the bear cocks his head. so i take a couple of steps toward him and he(i'll call him he and the weight of bear is around 300-400lbs) backs away a couple of steps. hmm i guess that he doesn't know that i am human, so i take a couple of more steps and yell out " GET!!! GO AWAY!!!". so he takes couple steps backwards. i continued to do that for about 5 minutes and he continued backwards. UGH!!!!!! well i had enuff of him, so i went on the trail that will lead me to my car(2 miles or so). it was fun to talk with him. i'd look over my shoulder and there he'd be about 40 yards away. we'd talk about the weather, the Steelers or anything that comes my mind. it was about mile or so to my car when he came closer, 30 yards or so. i stopped, turned around, took the rifle off my shoulder and said "thats far enough," and he goes back to about 40 yards. "good bear" i tell him. he cocks his head. we go about 1/8 of mile and he's back to 30 yards from me. "thats far enuff, i don't want to shoot you, but i will." then his ears go back and he makes loud and pulsing throated sounds while walking towards me. so i shouldered my rem m760 in 308 and said "BEAR I WILL SHOOT YOU!!!". 25 yards he still coming, so i flick the safety off and said " BEAR DON"T YOU DO IT!!!!!" he still is walking, ears laid back and making pulsated throating sounds till he gets within 20 yards from me, then i shoot, not to kill him, but the ground in between his front paws. the ground looked like like a giant mushroom cloud and the bear went onto his back and he bolted. i was scared of putting four rounds into him. i settled down myself (it took me about 10 minutes or so) and continued down the trail.

two weeks go by and my neighbor's son in law is a biologist. i tell him about my encounter with the bear and he goes to me "your lucky to survive. the bear looked at you as if you were food. your lucky to have that gun. if it were me, there would be one less bear to worry about." the pulsated throating sounds, which i learned, are a bear's offensive sounds. a clicking or a popping sound is defensive.

when i go into the woods, i have a ruger sbh in 44 mag strapped to my side. its loaded up with 44 spl/ 255gr Kieth and 7.5gr of unique. i take it just like you would do a pocket knife. i'm more afraid of the BLM "is coming to the woods" than i am a bear. i've seen a mama bear with three cubs at a distance of 50 or 60 yards. i've seen them solo many times.

last monday or tuesday at noonish, i have seen a black bear in my yard. he stayed about 10 minutes or so and then he went into woods. he was male(stood up on his hind legs) and a flat type head and i guessitmate he will go 6' to 6.5' and he will weigh about 400-500lbs. the bear only came one appearance, i guess he was bored.

[jonp]

Unless your dealing with special circumstances a 357 Mag with cast will deal with any black bear you come in contact with but as always, bigger is better. No such thing as over gunned

[megasupermagnum]

For me, frequency of events does not play into being prepared. Flat tires are rare. No mater how often or not, I carry a spare tire. I wear seat belts even though I have never been in a bad accident. I keep a scoop shovel, lumber saw and axe in the truck - just cause. They get used little but glad to have them when needed.

I open carry a side arm on trails and in the back country for a multitude of reasons. Two legged threats are far more common than bears. Man's best friend off leash has been the cause of many a harmful events on the trail, and emergency services (me) would be called to respond.


Bingo. Just about anything is a more realistic threat than a black bear. If you have a 100 to 1 chance of encountering a rabid dog, rather than an ornery black bear, which I think are realistic odds. Are you going to carry the semi auto 9mm with 15 shots that fits in your pocket, or the big old 44 magnum with 6 shots?

Going near the Yellowstone area is one thing. For the rest of the 48 states, I'm taking the 9mm every single time.

Some take the middle ground with something like a 45 acp or 10mm. Either way, you will be just fine.

[Chill Wills]

Bingo. Just about anything is a more realistic threat than a black bear. If you have a 100 to 1 chance of encountering a rabid dog, rather than an ornery black bear, which I think are realistic odds. Are you going to carry the semi auto 9mm with 15 shots that fits in your pocket, or the big old 44 magnum with 6 shots?

Going near the Yellowstone area is one thing. For the rest of the 48 states, I'm taking the 9mm every single time.

Some take the middle ground with something like a 45 acp or 10mm. Either way, you will be just fine.

Nah. I'm a revolver guy. I can take the 1911 but would rather have a revolver any day. I have never owned a 9mm. Never likely to either.
I like sub-sonic loads that don't split the eardrums.
I guess that makes me gravitate toward big slow bullets. Slow by 9mm standards. Not by my standards.
The 5 shot S&W 696 is my go to sidearm. I carry it most of the time and shoot it regularly. I am pretty happy with that.

[Three44s]

About the time I was getting my teeth cut shooting and loading my 44 mags in earnest, I also procured and read two of Keith’s books, “Six Gun’s” and “Hell I Was There”.

Here was a man that lived it 360 degrees 24/7, survived it and then wrote about it.

A story that he tells of a British Columbia Black Bear that charged the pack string he was helping tend is revealing. The bear charged down through the string for no apparent reason, engaged a fellow tender’s dog. The dog’s owner emptied his 9 mm Luger into the bear. The dog remained gripped in the bears jaws as the two animals rolled off the steep side hill and into a river. They last were seen sinking and being carried down stream.

The dogs owner doubled back that evening to try and recover his dog but no avail.

Another story, one from a different gentleman who was guiding a bear hunt with hounds. His client was a NYC Cop who was very smitten with his 1911 in 45 auto. They had a prize bear treed and the cop wanted to drop it with his baby. Well he dropped it alright! At the shot, perfectly placed by the way .... the bear slapped his chest with one paw where steam was rushing out from the bullets boiler room hit and dropped out of the tree and proceeded to tear up the pack of hounds. That guide as I recall reinstated his former weapon requirement for future clients.

It is a free country to pack whatever we want and discuss our theories and then in the end pack what we want. I will stick with my “old” 44 Mag.

My favorite packer is a Smith Mountain Gun in 44 Mag. It tips the scales at 39 oz. I can load it to taste. If I owned a S&W 329, I would carry that at 27 oz but I don’t.

BTW, I would definitely take an uploaded 44spl over about any of the autos.

Three44s

[megasupermagnum]

About the time I was getting my teeth cut shooting and loading my 44 mags in earnest, I also procured and read two of Keith’s books, “Six Gun’s” and “Hell I Was There”.

Here was a man that lived it 360 degrees 24/7, survived it and then wrote about it.

A story that he tells of a British Columbia Black Bear that charged the pack string he was helping tend is revealing. The bear charged down through the string for no apparent reason, engaged a fellow tender’s dog. The dog’s owner emptied his 9 mm Luger into the bear. The dog remained gripped in the bears jaws as the two animals rolled off the steep side hill and into a river. They last were seen sinking and being carried down stream.

The dogs owner doubled back that evening to try and recover his dog but no avail.

Another story, one from a different gentleman who was guiding a bear hunt with hounds. His client was a NYC Cop who was very smitten with his 1911 in 45 auto. They had a prize bear treed and the cop wanted to drop it with his baby. Well he dropped it alright! At the shot, perfectly placed by the way .... the bear slapped his chest with one paw where steam was rushing out from the bullets boiler room hit and dropped out of the tree and proceeded to tear up the pack of hounds. That guide as I recall reinstated his former weapon requirement for future clients.

It is a free country to pack whatever we want and discuss our theories and then in the end pack what we want. I will stick with my “old” 44 Mag.

My favorite packer is a Smith Mountain Gun in 44 Mag. It tips the scales at 39 oz. I can load it to taste. If I owned a S&W 329, I would carry that at 27 oz but I don’t.

BTW, I would definitely take an uploaded 44spl over about any of the autos.

Three44s

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

[Rainier]

megasupermagnum - I’ll ask the obvious question


Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

Makes a man wonder why you care? You’ve already told us…


I'm taking the 9mm every single time.

That’s your answer to the OP’s original question of…


Were it you, what would you feel is enough gun on your hip

Everybody gets to choose what they want to carry but according to you a 9mm is all anyone needs because black bears aren’t a concern Sooo... why hassle other people about their choice?

[white eagle]

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

I would choose the 44 special as well
what is a 10 mm mag another name for a 41 mag?

[Three44s]

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

Yes really!

Not factory 44 spl loads mind you but judicious handloads.

Further, we should not forget that an autoloader’s first rule is that it must not be a single shot. The bullet profile must feed reliably and that is not necessarily the best shape for effective external ballistics.

A revolver does not share those handicaps. Instead one can utilize a wide nose large metplat slug.

Three44s

[MOA]

Yes really!

Not factory 44 spl loads mind you but judicious handloads.

Further, we should not forget that an autoloader’s first rule is that it must not be a single shot. The bullet profile must feed reliably and that is not necessarily the best shape for effective external ballistics.

A revolver does not share those handicaps. Instead one can utilize a wide nose large metplat slug.

Three44s

Yes sirie, Nice to load great flat points or armor piercing stuff for those hard headed blackies.

https://i.postimg.cc/kgLwt4PN/20190524-114641.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Bjc2rJ6t)

https://i.postimg.cc/pXXsw4Bj/20190524-114801.jpg (https://postimg.cc/WtCmr9Cp)

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:bigsmyl2:

[MOA]

The blackies of Arizona. A shot of my oldest best friend and hunter with a Arizona Blackie. This guy makes me look like a piker when it comes to hunting and hunting experience. Two days to get this guy out of the woods with two people.

https://i.postimg.cc/W46fjhC2/2020-06-21-06-00-28-Andy-s-bear-hunt-Windows-Picture-and-Fax-Viewer.png (https://postimages.org/)

[ranchman]

I've had an encounter or two with bears over the years and I've seen things play out somewhat expected and others in ways I didn't expect at all. Times I had a rifle, times I had a bow and other times I had something on my hip ... to cut it short though, and comment on the OP's what's enough comment, I'd say by my own experience something along the lines of that echoed old 200+ grain 1000fps 40cal or bigger adage. And the heavier the bullet over 200 the better.

41's & 44's are where I like to stick myself, they can be as specials or magnum so long as a guys loaded in the relm of what I said up above. Mine go with 250/260gr keith's or wfn designs and where I expect bears I carry them loaded around 1200fps. The extra weight in a 250/260gr chunk of lead breaks bones & immobilizes better than smaller cal bullets could ever do, and the inherent diameter of these 41's & 44 calibers open bigger holes to move more tissue along their path for increased hemorrhaging and more blood & air loss than what smaller cal's can inflict too. I've seen 230-ish weight bullets out of a 41 @1250 break two shoulders & the spine with a high shoulder hit on one particular black bear that refused to quit during a track job a few years back. The shot at that point was 25-30 yards... and I'm not convinced I'd want anything less than that if I were expecting such a scenario to play out in front of me ever again.

So warm 44 special, 41special, &/or either one as a magnum is personally where I'd say the best bottom end calibers and power thresholds begin. I know wardens who barely skinned by scrapes with bears & even cougar using their issued 40s&w's. They worked, but just-just. I'm still taking my heavier hotter 41's or bigger. The step up from 41+ is where ballistics begin to really hotstep the smaller stuff, regardless of velocity or bullet.

[fcvan]

My first bear encounter was at 14, hiking Yosemite. A sow stopped in the middle of the trail in front of me and another hiker. I told him to dip his head and back up 10 feet. The sow looked at us the turned up the hill and grunted. A cub came down and crossed the trail. The sow continued to stare us down before grunting up the hill again for the other cub. Tense moments for sure.

Now, I see more bears in my back yard in Colorado Springs, a densely populated city. I've also seen mule deer hanging out in the back yard on a daily basis. This also caused a mountain lion to hang out on the sun porch to wait for dinner to come by. I have seen coyote, red fox, big horn sheep, and antelope walking down my street. The wife has taken plenty of pictures of the bears with the security cameras, they keep coming back because she feeds them fruit, ugh! She also feeds the mule deer and they come right to her when she calls them. She started doing that when a buck was hit by a car so she nursed him back to health. He kept coming back for 5 years. The wife asked what do I call him? I said "Bob."

Hiking, I sometimes carry a Glock 22. I don't have a 44 magnum, but the wife has a RSBH. My 'big gun' is a S&W M57 with an 8 3/8" barrel but I generally carry a Ruger OM Vaquero in 45 Colt loaded with heavy boolits at 1200 fps. Heck, the original loading with BP had a 250-255 grain slug chugging along at 1000 fps. Plenty for black bears.

[pmer]

I just choreographed a favorite load from the 4" model 29 44mag. MP503 clone with 11.7-Bluedot gets it to just under 1000 fps. It's a sleepy load but comparable to the old 45 Colt standard.

1300 fps in a 22 inch rifle barrel.

[popper]

Ages ago in a far away galaxy ( maybe Tetons?) bears walked among us. On the paved path. IIRC they were browns & I think mama was teaching them how to panhandle. Have some family pics of them on top of cars, poking heads in windows, etc. Was told browns can't climb trees but never tested the theory.

[Markopolo]

if you ask me, Black bears moan, wuffffff, snap and hiss.... i have never heard one roar. i once watched a broan bear kill and eat a large black bear and durring the fight with the 2 bears, all I heard make much noise was brown bear victor... i used to trap problem black bears in culvert traps for the feds, and never heard a black bear roar... just a lot of moaning and carrying on, snapping of teeth, and hissing. but that dont mean they dont... I have just never heard it.

[Tripplebeards]

That black bear growl video is some funny stuff.lol....that’s not from a black bear. I’ve heard them let out some low pitch dog wuffs when they charge dogs baying them on the ground.

[white eagle]

I think to be well protected from these marauding vicious black bears
a woods walker auoght to have a 12 ga loaded with slugs or a
500 Linebaugh minimum
the only growl I have ever heard from a black bear is a death bawl

[Gray Fox]

MOA: What is that red pointed boolit you load? GF

[Tripplebeards]

I think to be well protected from these marauding vicious black bears
a woods walker auoght to have a 12 ga loaded with slugs or a
500 Linebaugh minimum
the only growl I have ever heard from a black bear is a death bawl

Yeah, I did have some bloodcurdling moans and roars the last one a shot but it sounded exactly nothing like the video posted above. Sounded like loud moans with gargling noises. It was the last minute of legal shooting light and put the hair up on the back of my neck. I was on high guard when I was tracking it on my hands an knees through some thick brush with a flashlight. Luckily it was stone cold dead when I found it and only went about 45 yards.

[Norske]

The lower 48 can cover a big variety of black bear sizes. Here in MN, there are big ones, but 150-200# is average. But in the mid south, a 500# bear won't get much attention. I was told the boars don't hibernate there, and eat year-around. If the bear doesn't lose 25% of its weight over winter, the weight adds up quickly. Different bears, different gun.

[MOA]

MOA: What is that red pointed boolit you load? GF


GF, it's old Ideal mold that I saw in a article write up in one of the older Lyman cast boolit manual. It's a 429-303 that is powder coated with HF red. I find it very accurate, easy to cast and it powder coats up real nice too. With enough powder loaded in the 44 mag case it will go clean through a 3/16" plate steel plate. It's a gas check mold and I just love it. MP made a group buy mold in 50 cal for the S&W 500 a few months ago that was identical to this one in 44 and I jumped on it for use in my 50 Alaskan BPE.
I'm sure either one of these will take care of any BEAR that comes around if need be.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdCCpXQ5/20180614-142005.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4KKV0GSX)

https://i.postimg.cc/6pdYxhy0/20180614_141502.jpg (https://postimg.cc/3kxggmj4)

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https://i.postimg.cc/7hqNHDks/20190922_114906.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ftgdCGkm)

[ddixie884]

Himmelwright wad cutter...............

[Iowa Fox]

The 429303 is a very unique bullet. When I got my mold the first thing I did was order a nose punch for the 450 and a seating stem for my Lyman seating die from Lyman so as to protect that point. I've got a 35793 also but its horrible trying to get the bullets to drop from the mold.

If a mean bear was a possibility I would use a LBT WFN

[Poygan]

Iowa Fox,
I have the 429303 and also have a hard time getting the boolits to drop from the mold. Because of that, I have used it very little. I may try to use some spray to see if that would help them drop from the mold. Deep lube grooves don't help either.

[MOA]

I guess I'm lucky on the boolits dropping, I do smoke the mold quite heavy with my BBQ gas lighter and have not had a issue with it dropping both cavities. I always smoke all my mold with a heavy black coat of carbon before starting. As far as why I like the pointed for bear is maybe not so much for blackies but the bigger bears depending on how heavy the fat layer is, most of the issue is getting the boolit into the organs. The pointed one will make it to the vitals.

[ranchman]

I've always understood the pointed bullets have a greater tendency to veer off coarse and penetrate odd directions vs swc or wfn designs, which tend to straight line more reliably. And without a meplat disrupting tissues and muscles along its path of penetration, bear fat specifically has a very good rep for sealing small wounds & complicating track jobs ... a guy might get incredible penetration on steel plates and things of that sort with the points, and it surely punch a bone if bone was all it hit, but will it enter where you aim on a bear and continue straight (like a guy wants), or will it fish-hook after entry into flesh and gristlly muscle just to exit out an armpit instead of reaching organs & bones like intended??

Those are the problems I've always read relating to sharp points in flesh & bone vs paper & steel. The mentality and theory is there, but I'll take swc's & wfn for my bear country excursions.

[hockeynick39]

I lived in black bear country most of my life. I never really hunted them specifically, but if a chance opportunity during season came along, I would've taken one. My father and grandfather have hunted them and they used 30-30 and 32 Specials in the Adirondack Mountains of NY. They always taught me that when you shoot them, shoot them in the shoulder first (no matter what angle because it keeps them from charging and grabbing) and then go for the boiler room with the follow up. I've seen plenty of black bear outside of season and was even being stalked by one near my grandparents cabin in Wilmington, NY. My grandmother, all 4' 7" and weighing maybe 150 lbs came running out and beating the hell out of that bear with her broom and cussing it out in French. Dad came out shortly with the rifle and the bear had retreated back to the woods. My brother was the one who alerted them by running back to the cabin yelling. Anyway, ever since we were allowed to shoot, we always carried a .22 rifle with us, not much against bear, but when you crack a shot near the ear, it dissuades them pretty good. Only had one encounter like that as a pre-teen. I received a Remington 1903A3, made in 1943, for my 16th birthday and every time I went into the woods at my grandfather's farm in Port Leyden, NY, it went with me. Never had any bear encounters there, at least none that I know of because them damn things are sneaky! My late teens and early 20s were spent on active duty in Europe and a few other places with combat duties. Ended up in Fort Carson, CO and did some mulie, elk, and turkey hunting there and saw plenty of black bear sign and only encountered one set, a momma and her two cubs at about 200 yds while hunting mulies. Moved back to the Adirondacks with my job and found myself hunting some old familiar areas again, but no bear sign. I always went spring turkey and early bow for deer, in each case I carried my tactical pistol with me in a cross draw (Springfield XD in .45 ACP and ball ammo). That lasted for several years until we went to 9mm and my backup was a Glock 33SF in .45 ACP. So, when I went to the woods, I carried a 6" barreled S&W 27 in .357 Mag. A little heavy, but carried well on the hip. Ended up moving to the White Mountains of NH, Berlin to be more specific and ended up in black bear central with at least 7 dens within 1/4 mile of my home, in town. I ended up falling in love with the .41 Magnum in S&W 57 and a S&W 625 JM in .45 ACP. Both N frames, one stainless and the other blued. Also started to cast my own boolits at this point with some very nice loads for defense. I carried those interchangeably depending on how I felt on any one particular morning. I even used to carry them out kayak fishing with me, because one never knows. The biggest bear I saw was a 450 lb sow that ran through a small apartment complex park, which was across the street from my backyard, and while children were playing. The reason I know the weight and sex is because one of the locals that lived up the street shot it. Yes it was a legal and ethical shot in all manners because the woods started at the edge of the apartment property and there were no dwellings within 300 ft. Another neighbor and co-worker one street over from mine, came home and found a bear eating peanut butter at the kitchen table. He had to have a professional cleaning service come in and clean up all the blood from the dying bear. He unloaded, reloaded, then unloaded again until the bear stopped moving. 25 shots from a 9mm and that boar weighed 300 lbs and was aged at about 4 years old. Shots were less than 10 ft and all about the left shoulder, from the neck to the abdomen, and throughout the chest cavity. He was lucky his kids were playing at a friend's when all of this went down. Now I am in South TX and have to worry more about javelina and hogs than I do about bear anymore. BTW, javelinas are worse than hogs if anyone cares to know. Them little ******** WILL chase you down, almost worst than piranhas! Anyway, I still carry the S&W 27 and S&W 625 JM on hip when out in the scrub. Don't have to worry too much about HPs getting stuck in fur and fat anymore, so I load the cylinder alternating between LHP and LFP and have a couple speedloaders with me as well.

Sorry for the long winded dissertation, just some memories. When it comes to bear, carry what you feel comfortable with, but for me, it's go big or die in place and become a turd pile!!!!!!! Good luck and stay safe.

[Three44s]

Reading post 89, the thought occurred to me about the “9’s” being referred to as the “Wonder Nines”!

I think it fits aptly: “I wonder if I am going to run out of bullets or bear first”

The bear just a sittin’ at the table eating up his peanut butter, indeed!

I bet if the home owner had not happened upon the four legged trespasser when he did, that bear would have finished off the honey, chocolate and the ice cream also!

DA NERVE!

Three44s

[Cary Gunn]

Gents,

I think one should never say never when speaking about the activities of any wild animal.

In August of 1998, I and my 11-year-old son took our first of many annual trips to the fish-rich big timber lakes of southern Ontario.

Since near-wilderness camping on order for some those trips, I wondered about the potential need for protection from the black bears inhabiting those Canadian woods. Crossing the U.S./Canada border while packing my Ruger Blackhawk .41 Magnum was not a legal option, so I left the revolver at home and took instead what I considered to be a very, very poor alternative -- an 8-inch Bowie in a belt sheath.

Knowing that I'd feel very, very stupid for a very short time should I ever be forced to defend myself or my son with that pig-sticker, the best I could do was just hope I never had to use it. The half-way point on those long drives to the Canadian North just happened to place us in northwestern Wisconsin, and we often over-nighted there with a longtime friend who lived on Long Lake in Wisconsin's rural Washburn County.

There are black bears aplenty in northwest Wisconsin and my buddy living there was more than passingly familiar with them, so I spoke to him about my concerns of being virtually unarmed while camping among the blackies 400 miles further north in Ontario. I felt reassured when he told me not to worry -- his experience had shown that black bears were far more scared of people than people should be them.

Thanking my friend for his reassurance and hospitality, the next morning my son and I continued on our way north to a wonderful week-long acquaintanceship with Canada's abundant bass, walleye and northern pike. It was midway through that fish-filled week that a scratchy, weak-signaled Northwoods radio newscast informed us of a tragic outdoor happening to our south.

A Boy Scout, about the age of my son, lay struggling for life in a Wisconsin hospital, having been dragged by the head through the wall of his tent by a black bear that attacked the boy on Long Lake.

For many years, the Boy Scouts maintained a more-or-less permanent camp site about five miles down and on the other side of the lake from my friend's house.
The attack there occurred only a few days after my friend's assurance that black bears are too terrified of people to pose a real threat.

Unarmed Scout Masters resorted to banging pots and pans to scare-off that bear, but the animal had ultimately been able to drag the young camper into the brush about 70 yards from the tent attack site. The scout lingered under medical care for some days before succumbing to his head injuries.

In a decade of annual trips to the Canadian North after that, my son and I were never bothered by bears. I was, thus, never forced to display my stupidity in trying to defend against a bear attack with a damned knife.

We learned, though, to never say never about the activities of any wild animal.

By the way, through the years I've tried to stay abreast of news involving animal attacks, and I've read at least a couple of reports that were alleged to include all authenticated bear and lion attacks going back many, many years in the U.S. and Canada. In none of those reports was there an account of the August, 1998 Long Lake, Wis. fatal attack.

I wonder how many other actual attacks have failed to make the historical list of animal attacks.

Anyway, I'd sure prefer to be sided by my Ruger .41 than my ridiculous 8-inch Bowie.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

[HCH]

A Redhawk 45 Colt, loaded hot;

or a 4" .40 S&W. 8 grains of Longshot will get you 1150 FPS in a reasonably sized package

[Bigbore5]

I've hunted black bear most of my life. We've run them with dogs. Bait hunted. Spot and stalk. You name it. I've personally taken 14 ranging from 200 to over 600 pounds and been present at the demise of over a hundred others. So far I have only been genuinely charged twice. One I stopped with a 444 marlin that had been gutshot by a client and of course headed to the worst thicket it could. The other was a predatory charge by a 500+ pound male when I was freshening some baits. 500 linebaugh, 525gr at 1000fps did not glance off the skull.
The best bullet for stopping bear with a brain shot from the front is a heavy cast with a wide sharp edged meplat. Any rounding of the nose tends to cause the bullet to follow the contour of the skull. That's why the semiautomatic should never be carried. In most cases the semiautomatic has been successfully used for bear defense, the shooter was not the one being directly charged. It was someone they were with who the bear focused on or it turned at the first shots. I've seen enough brain shot bears in my years of hunting and guiding to know what works.
That round nose 38 would probably fail to stop a charge. But swap to a wfn, and even at 800fps, I am positive enough that a heavy 170 grain 38+p will penetrate the frontal skull that I sometimes carry my k38 when tending bait and have taken two baited bear with it. It works but still isn't my 475 I carry when following the dogs or working a bait I know a big bear is hitting.

[dougader]

More on the 41 magnum used in Wyoming bear attack:

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/12/tanner-allen-bear-defense-in-nw-wyoming-41-magnum-single-action/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=3541bb641a-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-3541bb641a-21123881#axzz6ffUi7ZzB

[dougader]

I used to carry a 9mm in a fanny pack when I was out fishing for salmon or steelhead... until I ran into a black bear on the Sandy river. Summer steelhead, low water and I realized how fast that bear could make it across to where I was fishing... and that Glock 19 seemed really small.

Even though the bear ran away from me as fast as he could when he spotted me, I started carrying a 45 Super after that. When I started having reliability problems running the Super I traded out for a 45 Colt loaded with WFNGC bullets from Beartooth bullets.

Now the 5 shot snub-nose S&W 69 in 44 magnum covers that role. I like both the Keith 250 and the WFN 250 with a stout charge of 2400.

[Chill Wills]

There have been two more black bear attacks here in Colorado so far this spring. One fatal.
The latest one, a bear got into an open garage near sundown and the home owner just happened in there to close it up for the night. The human did everything right according to the reports, backed away slowly and talked to the bear in a low voice.
It turned out the bear had cubs and was in no mood to let him go.
He lived but is hospitalized with "Severe injuries" to the head and legs.
I don't have details on the woman that was killed.

[memtb]

I view this as pretty simple......carry the largest caliber handgun that you are proficient with, using heavy for caliber wide metplat non-expanding bullets. Is this “NEEDED” to stop an attack from the average Black Bear..... Absolutely not! However, if you meet a very large, very aggressive bear.....you may not get a “do over”! Assume the worst.....hope for the best! See my signature line....I’ve this philosophy most of my life! memtb

[Markopolo]

i have lived remote for 25 years in the bear country of Alaska. both brownies and blackies. in all those years, I have not had to use a handgun (my 44) on any bears. till last season. I have been stalked several times, even by smaller bears. Do I think I didn't need to carry all them other times it wasn't required? or need to switch to bear spray? no way. i have taken on average 3 bears every year for food in the last 25 years. i still say, a very familiar 44 mag loaded with lee 310's is my security blanket. practice, repeat, then do it again... every year. what good is a gun you fumble with? A charged up bear fighting for his life is a unpredictable force to be reckoned with.... then there is the alpha bear in the area that is used to bullying all other animals in the forest and truly is the King poop bear. those king bears are just out right grumpy, and i give them a wide berth...

[Texas by God]

Google " 17year old pushes bear"- what a brave/ crazy teenager! She has street cred now!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[atr]

I was up at my place in the Okanogan for 3 weeks in May. Did a lot of hiking and did come across a nice black bear. I was glad I was carrying the .44 Mag. The critter was about 50 yards away searching for food and never saw me. But still I was glad to be carrying that revolver.

[Jim22]

If you carry a handgun for protection - whether for two or four legged bad guys - you need to practice like crazy. The pistols mentioned are all capable. Maybe not the .22. The thing you need to do is to hit a softball every time at whatever you set your minimum range to be. That is why it is easier to do with a long gun. Your line in the sand can be further away. The fact that long guns tend to be more powerful is a plus as well but there are reasons we don't carry one. Practice makes perfect at the range. Add a gallon or so of adrenaline and you need to rely on what you practiced.

[badguybuster]

Ive killed 3 black bears (2 over 300#) with a 5" S&W 627 in 357 mag using handloaded 180 grain XTPs over some Lil Gun. None of them went over 30 yards and the largest was actually DRT.

[memtb]

I’ve taken a bear with a handgun as well. There is a huge difference between taking an unsuspecting bear being hunted.....and an adrenaline filled charging bear, intent on eliminating a perceived threat to either it’s offspring or it’s food stash! memtb

[Three44s]

I’ve taken a bear with a handgun as well. There is a huge difference between taking an unsuspecting bear being hunted.....and an adrenaline filled charging bear, intent on eliminating a perceived threat to either it’s offspring or it’s food stash! memtb

+10!

Three44s

[lksmith]

Desert Eagle in 50AE :grin:
An option that might not think of is a 1911 (or glock) in 460 rowland. 7.5" 44mag performance from a 5" Autoloader, that is MUCH lighter than any large frame revolver. Lighter and smaller so easier to carry so more likely to have it on you.

Granted, given the option when faced by any charging dangerous animal, I'd rather have a Ma Duece for stopping power!!

[Traffer]

I brought that very topic up on another forum with regards to hitting a bear in the head and not getting a positive result. A couple of the self professed “experts” on that forum exploded and tried to tar and feather me for even suggesting such ideas while they kept touting braining a bear in a charge.

A short time later I mentioned that discussion to a very skilled hunter and a favorite of bear hunting (he is a Tribal member and has shot a ton of them) and he not only backed my idea but told me of his identical outcome with a .30-06!

The reality is that a bear in a charge does not hold it’s head still. It bounds with the head oscillating. A skull well designed for surviving fights not with butterflies but rather other similarity equipped bears. The angle of the frontal plane of a bears skull is flatter than a cars windshield and the accounts of handgun slugs glancing off of windshields by police are numerous.

My point is this: A small handgun is no match for a charging bear. If you are lucky enough to be able to present your handgun and it is up to the job, your best shot would be to hope to connect with the junction of the two shoulder blades near the hump. You will not kill the bear that way but the strategy is to deflect the charge and if you are lucky, then be presented with a more favorable orientation of the bear to your position.

You want the bear sideways and distracted so you can stuff more rounds in his boiler room or if close and you are good under stress hit the bear in his head sideways just below the ear. That hunter with the big number of bears harvested? His favorite shot was with a .204 Ruger 2” below the ear sideways into a bears head!

Not for me no thank you! Make mine a bigger gun!

My two recommendations for a handgun for lower 48 are both in 44 magnum. I suggest the 629 Mountain Gun or the 329 Titanium/Aluminum. I own a MG and it is a real sweetie. I have shot stiff loads in the 329 (with wooden grips) and found it controllable. For a gun carried a lot and fired a little, the 329 S&W is the real deal.

Three44s

That reminds me of WWII Tank development. I believe it was the Russians and the T34 tank that made a quite radical angle so the big guns would deflect.

[megasupermagnum]

Desert Eagle in 50AE :grin:
An option that might not think of is a 1911 (or glock) in 460 rowland. 7.5" 44mag performance from a 5" Autoloader, that is MUCH lighter than any large frame revolver. Lighter and smaller so easier to carry so more likely to have it on you.

Granted, given the option when faced by any charging dangerous animal, I'd rather have a Ma Duece for stopping power!!

Not really. The load data I see, right from 460 rowland website, shows a 260 grain bullet is topped out about 1100 fps, maybe a touch faster. You can easily shoot a 350 grain bullet as fast, or faster than that from a 44 magnum. The only auto loading pistols I'm aware of that can touch even ballpark what a 44 magnum can do are things like the DE 50 AE, or a Wildey 475 magnum, both of which are larger/heavier than a 44 magnum revolver, and not exactly known for their reliability.

I think 460 Rowland is neat, and it is quite likely I'll buy a barrel one day. From a practical standpoint, a 1911 is pretty much 90% of the design limits with a 45 ACP, and all attempts to improve on it like 45 super or 460 rowland, are not exactly earth shattering. 10mm auto offers similar performance, and also allows a gigantic boost in magazine capacity. There really is no replacement for a revolver.

[rbuck351]

We are talking black bear not griz. Black bear attacks are rare and there normal attack is to walk up to you and eat you. I have never heard of a black bear charging but I suppose it may have happened. Most any center fire handgun of 35 cal or larger should work if you take the time to shoot carefully. I have only encountered three or four lack bear in the woods and all turned and ran as soon as they saw me.

[memtb]

Admittedly quite rare! But, if you are the chosen one....you too can become a statistic! memtb


George Halfkenny, 16
Mark Halfkenny, 12
Billy Rhindress, 15 (all male) May 13, 1978 Wild Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario The three boys were stalked and killed while fishing near Radiant Lake in Algonquin Provincial Park. This was the first fatal bear attack in the park in eighty years

[megasupermagnum]

Admittedly quite rare! But, if you are the chosen one....you too can become a statistic! memtb


George Halfkenny, 16
Mark Halfkenny, 12
Billy Rhindress, 15 (all male) May 13, 1978 Wild Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario The three boys were stalked and killed while fishing near Radiant Lake in Algonquin Provincial Park. This was the first fatal bear attack in the park in eighty years

If all were killed, how does anyone know they were stalked?

[kerreckt]

I carry my 10mm Glock 20 (16rds) or my10mm Tanfoglio (15rds). These are loaded with 200grn hardcast bullets. I have never had to use either but carry, in a chest rig, when in bear country. My handloads give me 1200+/-fps. Maybe not ideal but the best I have.

[Three44s]

My 629 Mountain Gun (44 Mag) weighs a mere one ounce more than a full size 1911 in 45 ACP.

My youngest nephew was treated with a test run of a Glock 10 mm. All he had to buy was the ammo. He had 100 rounds bought and decided to end the test at the half way mark and sent the gun back home with fifty rounds unfired.

I find the 10 mm a capable cartridge but not my choice for bears. The cartridge is not a duplication for the .41 Mag much less the 44.

Revolvers today are pasay compared to the “cool” autoloader, but I am not into cool, just what works when the chips are down. It has been said that a revolver is like a fork, you pick it up and it just works.

Three44s

[memtb]

If all were killed, how does anyone know they were stalked?


As best I recall from evidence gathered at the scene, they were killed for food. The boys were stored in a food cache guarded by the bear ....the bear was on top of the cache and was determined to protect it’s food. The bear was killed while atop the food cache! The boys were killed in separate locations......then their bodies cached together. Hence the conclusion that they were “stalked” and killed! memtb

[downzero]

I carry a 357 Magnum if there are black bears or cats on my hike. I have a 45 Colt that I can shoot 300 grain bullets at over 1100 (and IIRC, over 1200) fps, but I don't consider that necessary for a 300 pound animal.

I wouldn't mess with a 9mm or 38 Special or really anything else that isn't a magnum or similar power, at least not willingly. I would consider myself considerably undergunned with a 45 ACP, 45 Colt at standard pressure, 44 Special, etc. That's not to say those won't do the job, but they wouldn't be my choice.

[405grain]

Long, long ago I learned never to go back country fishing without a sidearm. I was never concerned with black bears as every one I saw turned tail and lumbered off when it saw or smelled me. I've only had one cougar that didn't do the same, and that one just sat there wagging it's tail and watched me slowly back away. This was back in the days when marijuana was illegal, and stumbling into an illegal grow back in the forest could be hazardous to your health. Back then I carried a 1911 and 5 magazines. I was lucky, and both times that I inadvertently discovered pot gardens in the Eel river drainage, the "caretaker(s)" either weren't present, or they just let me go past without making their presence known.
Those times were long ago, and now I carry a 4" barrel 629 loaded with 245 grain SWC's over a stiff charge of 2400. It does the job. I practice with it enough to feel confident, and have never felt uneasy in the woods with it in the holster. Once I had to come down off a mountain after dark, walking a trail by moon light. For at least two miles I was being shadowed by a pack of coyotes. (The only time that I've ever seen a coyote that wasn't all by itself) They stayed back at least 30 yards and didn't work up the courage to get closer, but were obviously half-heartedly stalking me. The thought crossed my mind to dust off one of them as a warning to the others, but before I made it back to camp they faded back into the woods and went their separate ways.
As for the posts above regarding having a bullet graze off the top of a bears skull: I've had that happen with a feral hog before. The same load of 44 magnum, but from a Superblackhawk. It plowed a trench in the pigs head and momentarily stunned it, but didn't penetrate the skull. Lucky for me it turned and decided to run another way and I put a second shot into its boiler room. My recommendation for personal protection from anything that your likely to meet in the backwoods is a stainless steel double action revolver in 44 magnum.

[Three44s]

Many consider the .44mag a fearsome gun to fire. The truth is it and most magnum revolver rounds can be “what” you want them to be if you handload.

I got used to firing revolvers over time and started with a K22 S&W.

I moved to light 44 loads at about 100 FPS over a .44 special (factory loading) and gradually worked my upper threshold to recoil to a higher tolerance.

Gradually, accuracy and acceptance of recoil improved to the point where I can do a fair job in single or double action with the 44.

Three44s

[warren5421]

I don't fish so carry a 870 loaded with a 2 ball .662" round when walling in the woods at mom's. If I was fishing it more than likely be a Colt SAA in .44-40 loaded with a full house black powder load shooting a 200 gr or 240 gr Pb RNFP. Not had any bear attacks on humans around my mom's but the farmer that works her land lost a calf to one. The coyote's are the big problem.

[Gray Fox]

An unspoken advantage to revolvers these days is that while you train with it you're not throwing expensive brass all over the landscape. It might not be a major problem on an improved range, but it is a real pain in even short grass when shooting in the field or a backyard range. GF

[flint45]

The handgun I like to carry is my Ruger Blackhawk and 45 colt with a safe but heavy charge of H1 10 and a big lead semi wadcutter always seems to do the job accurate and powerful.

[Tar Heel]

Without reading all of the previous, I'll espouse my preference.
First and foremost - a REVOLVER.
Second, either a 44 Magnum or 45 Colt Ruger NMBH

44: SSK 320gr cast in WW and drop quenched or cast in Lyman #2
20gr H110, Magnum primer, heavy crimp. Clock at 1300fps
Deep penetration

45: Lyman 454629 at 300gr. Cast in WW and quenched or in Lyman #2
21gr H110, 16gr Accurate 9, 22gr 4227. Heavy Crimp. Mag primer with H110
DO NOT SHOOT THESE LOADS IN A 1873 CLONE REVOLVER. THESE ARE FOR A RUGER NMBH ONLY!

Revolvers don't jam.

285382 285383
The SSK 320gr bullet The Lyman 454629 300gr bullet

Love the fishing/bear pictures!

[Three44s]

Tar Heel,

Yes sir, Yes Sir!

+10!

Three44s

[memtb]

Tar Heel....you have it figured out! memtb

[Tar Heel]

Tar Heel....you have it figured out! memtb

When a 300 pound pissed off animal with teeth and/or tusks is coming at you in a full charge, intent on slicing you to ribbons and flinging your visceral contents among the trees, time is of the essence, and power is of critical importance. I have hunted both bear and hog with handguns. J.D. Jones used to tell us when we took our annual Handgun Hunters International hunting trips that when a Russian Boar is at you, you need to DROP TO A KNEE and shoot him right up the snout. A revolver is always loaded - in that a round is always chambered (no forgetting). I can't begin to tell you how fast a charge is. There is barely enough time to react.

While a 22LR may kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye or some other such nonsense, you need HORSEPOWER to get the attention of an enraged attack and to have enough penetration to reach a vital from a head-on attack. You can smack me all day with a pencil but to really get my attention, use a baseball bat.

To appreciate a full-on "I'm going to kill you 23 times" charge, you really have to experience one first hand. You get scared AFTER the fact if you either shot the critter or got safely up a tree, or the charge was aborted by the animal and you realize there is a God that just saved your heathen butt.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

A long slide Glock 10mm would be my pick. I'm out in the wolf and black bear woods a good amount and I don't worry too much about what I'm carrying, as long as I am. A model 60, G 36 or SW MP 9 are all a boatload better than nothing. We have bears right in town too.

[Three44s]

When I read “Sixguns” by Elmer Keith the first time, I had already acquired my (then) three revolvers in .44 Mag.

What I additionally gathered from reading another of his books, “Hell, I Was There!” made me real glad I had chosen wisely.

Elmer rightly points out the deficiencies and disadvantages of autoloading hand guns, particularly when human nature is factored in.

In my humble opinion, there are two main “selling points” that favor packing an autoloading pistol. One is the cool factor. Let’s face it, semis are with it. Revolvers are just old news!

The other reason is round capacity. “This gun holds fifteen rounds”. Yes, but how many are you going to fire before Mr. Bear gets to where it’s going?

How many of that “stack” of ammo are really going to add to you ability to stop that charging beast?

The good news is this just my opinion and we still live in a country where we each get to chose what we pack in most of the “addresses” where these sorts of decisions really matter.

What you pack is your business as my safety is my business and yours is yours. Just because I have a different idea on what is ideal to carry, it’s not “law”.

Best regards

Three44s

[barnetmill]

I .....
99% of the time I favor a 44 Special for the woods. For some reason the S&W 67 (38 Special) was handier and I put it on that time. I have been playing with a Lyman 200grn round nose in the 38 and had a cylinder full.

.......
With bear when using a smaller caliber pistol, if possible you shoot for the head. I fear that a round nose might glance off the head. The bullet that I would want for a black does not likely a exist. I would want a 200 grain hard cast wad cutter.

[Chill Wills]

With bear when using a smaller caliber pistol, if possible you shoot for the head. I fear that a round nose might glance off the head. The bullet that I would want for a black does not likely a exist. I would want a 200 grain hard cast wad cutter.

Agreed! Or a short nosed SWC.

[Eddie Southgate]

One of my .44 specials with Elmer's load .

[barnetmill]

Agreed! Or a short nosed SWC.

Well SWC is better than round nose, but I would want a hard sharp corner full wadcutter of 195 or more grain wt getting as close to a 1000 fps as is safe relative to pressures.

[35 Rem]

I'd chose my Super Blackhawk 44 Mag 5 1/2" loaded with 10 grains of Unique and the Lee 310 grain bullet. I can shoot that load way better than full house loads yet it still hits real hard. Also it's subsonic which means you aren't going to instantly deafen yourself with the 1st shot.

If I thought bears were really likely to be encountered, I'd gravitate towards a lever action 45-70 along with the Blackhawk on my hip.

[barnetmill]

I'd chose my Super Blackhawk 44 Mag 5 1/2" loaded with 10 grains of Unique and the Lee 310 grain bullet. I can shoot that load way better than full house loads yet it still hits real hard. Also it's subsonic which means you aren't going to instantly deafen yourself with the 1st shot.

If I thought bears were really likely to be encountered, I'd gravitate towards a lever action 45-70 along with the Blackhawk on my hip.
I might elect to go somewhere else without the bear issue.

[Three44s]

I might elect to go somewhere else without the bear issue.

Agreed, better yet send a "bear hugger"!

Three44s

[Frank V]

I might elect to go somewhere else without the bear issue.
Shoot, I’d have to leave Montana to do that!:mrgreen:

[Castaway]

Headed to Colorado later this month to try my luck with elk. Although the odds of a bear/lion encounter are slight, I’ve decided against carrying my 7.5” Black Hawk in 45 Colt. Too long and too heavy to be comfortable with. Even though I can stoke it to around 1,200 f/s with a RCBS 270 (280 actual) bullet and smokeless powder, I’ve decided to take my 4 3/4” barreled Uberti copy of a SAA. I’ve stuffed 40 grains of 1.5f Swiss under the RCBS bullet. Not as fast as the Black Hawk but I’m pretty sure 280 grains of lead moving close to 950 f/s doesn’t leave me too exposed. Who knows, maybe the boom and cloud of smoke may have a deterrent value.

[Tom_in_AZ]

44 special with some skeeter loads would be plenty effective, I’d imagine.

[Chill Wills]

44 special with some skeeter loads would be plenty effective, I’d imagine.

That is my thought too. That big 44 bullet is gong to penetrate, even at special velocities.

[MT Gianni]

As one who has seen a 45 acp glance off of a sheeps head, I can state it isn't the bullet as much as the angle. Shoot straight into it and it will penetrate. A glancing blow will not.

[brasshog]

I always carry when aloft. If I am hiking and trying to get some miles or fishing in my boat (Mossberg 600 in the boat also) then generally my Glock43X with 15rnd shield mags is on my chest. It serves well for the most likely problem of two legged critters and cats, boar, etc. If I am hunting and my sidearm is my primary weapon then the SW Model 69 4" barreled 44 mag with 240gr LSWC-HP (Keith) going at 1200 fps are my choice. If I am in the lower 48 and anywhere near bears then the 44 mag is loaded with 240-300gr XTP's at full throttle or 310gr WNGC bullets. I used to carry a BFR in 45-70 as a sidearm to my High Wall 45-70 both loaded with 475gr bullets at 1200 fps but my hands aren't as good as they once were.

That being said...in all of my years the biggest constant issue that I have faced is people. Now I have had to put down a gator that was following me in the cat tails while wading in waist deep water, rabbid squirrel in my tree, yote(s) by campfire light, and more snakes than I care to count including a 47" water moccasin at my feet that were either too curious for their own good or just being mean. If I had to pick the perfected balanced carry gun for the woods out of all of my current ones it would have to be my Ruger Blackhawk 41 mag with a 4 5/8" barrel and 210gr HP's.
319669

[brassrat]

I consulted my extensive list of animal calls that I assembled off the net. Under "Bear" was a 3 sec. recording of the subset "black bear" and labeled "roar" Sure nuff it was a roar. The Grizz roar recordings are really scary.