Glad I'm not the only person trimming 44 magnum brass.

[Bazoo]

In the new handloader 326, there is an article on the 44 magnum. And on page 53, Brian Pearce references trimming cases for consistency. I was somewhat shocked as many here admonish the practice. Also there was a reference to using cases from one lot. Well that was interesting too because so many have touted of using variety head stamped brass (I've done it myself).

Glad to see I'm not the only person who prefers revolver brass of at least the same headstamp and trimmed for consistency.


Post script, I did enjoy the article and am going to try his suggestion of 6.0-6.5 bullseye with the 429421 bullet. With the exception I'll use the RCBS 44-245-SWC.

[Lloyd Smale]

id consider the source. brian pearce is an arogant tool! My buddy knows him and will tell you he does a lot more jaw flapping that handloading. 99 percent of what he shoots is freebee factory ammo. Buddy said his daughter has done more handloading then pearce. Now if you want to trim handgun brass then have at it. Me? Id rather spend the time shooting.

[Thumbcocker]

6.5 of red dot/promo with a 429421 has shot well for me.

[Ed_Shot]

I also like 6.0~6.5 gr. Red Dot/Promo under a 429421 in a 44 Mag case.

[bluejay75]

Unless you have a pile of Hornady brass mixed into your brass...there’s only two headstamps that I segregate. RP are always long and it’s a crapshoot on Hornady. Some spot on and some short.

I have never trimmed a piece of 44 brass and my sorting technique has proven useful in my 44 reloading.

Next time you’re bored. Take out calipers and confirm for yourself.

[Larry Gibson]

Many years ago when I had a target PPC revolver, a 6" M29 and M1911 that possibly could tell the difference between trimmed and untrimmed cases I test the idea using a Ransom Rest solidly mounted on a 55 gal barrel of cement. Testing was done at 50 yards with 12 shot strings from the revolvers (a Power PPC custom built on a M10 S&W 38 SPL & a out of the box M29) and 14 shot test strings from the M1911 (a match conditioned Colt M1911 Series 70 45 ACP). After numerous test strings of with each firearm using trimmed and untrimmed case I could see no difference in group sizes or chronographed data between the trimmed and untrimmed cases.

I have seldom trimmed any handgun cases [3840 & 44-40 being exceptions] anymore and certainly not any 44 magnum cases.

[shtur]

I shoot bullseye pistol, and the vast majority of Master and High Master classified bullseye pistol shooters never trim brass - and they all look for every single advantage they can get from any technique they can.

[John Boy]

The only brass I trim are for center fire caliber rifles. Why? Uniform cartridge length in the chamber to the leade or to the leading bore cuts

[Shuz]

In over 50 years shooting and reloading for the. 44 magnum, I ve never seen the need to trim my brass!

[Carrier]

In the new handloader 326, there is an article on the 44 magnum. And on page 53, Brian Pearce references trimming cases for consistency. I was somewhat shocked as many here admonish the practice. Also there was a reference to using cases from one lot. Well that was interesting too because so many have touted of using variety head stamped brass (I've done it myself).

Glad to see I'm not the only person who prefers revolver brass of at least the same headstamp and trimmed for consistency.


Post script, I did enjoy the article and am going to try his suggestion of 6.0-6.5 bullseye with the 429421 bullet. With the exception I'll use the RCBS 44-245-SWC.

Any new brass be it 38/357, 44/44mag or 45 colt that I’m going to use for max loads gets trimmed. I have found that Starline brass has had the most inconsistent lengths when new.
It’s one of those things that some do some don’t. I guess if in the big scheme of things it doesn’t make a hill of beans difference then it’s my time that I’m wasting no one else’s.

[Bazoo]

Interesting responses. So this question is for those that don't trim their handgun brass, 44 or otherwise. Do you not crimp? How do you deal with the occasional buckled cases when you crimp a long piece of brass? Do you reset your crimp die for each brand or batch of brass you load?

[marshall623]

Interesting responses. So this question is for those that don't trim their handgun brass, 44 or otherwise. Do you not crimp? How do you deal with the occasional buckled cases when you crimp a long piece of brass? Do you reset your crimp die for each brand or batch of brass you load?I'm going to try trimming, I've been getting a few bulged cases , plus found a couple that were over max length .

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[onelight]

If your loading jacketed bullets the case length is more critical when using a standard roll crimp .
With cast and a proper crimp groove revolver bullets, seating to the center of the crimp groove with a case of average length I have no problems . This is not the best way to get the most consistent ammunition but it is the most expedient way for my twice a week range ammo at 25 yards I can't tell the difference.
The Lee collet crimp die is another way to make case length less critical and still have a good crimp.

[robg]

i reload my 357mag brass till it splits.did try trimming cases but found they didnt seem to get longer with my loads so i stopped wasting my time ,but i trim my 223/308/30-30 and 45-70 brass.

[Shuz]

Interesting responses. So this question is for those that don't trim their handgun brass, 44 or otherwise. Do you not crimp? How do you deal with the occasional buckled cases when you crimp a long piece of brass? Do you reset your crimp die for each brand or batch of brass you load?

I have found that case neck tension is much more important than any crimping. I found this out when I first started playing around with a Smith 329PD. Once I reduced the diameter of the case expander, my boolits quit jumping crimp. I have never had a bulged or buckled case. I do not adjust the crimp die unless the first case comes out without much crimp. I load on a Dillon Square Deal B.

[Lloyd Smale]

well I shot ppc and bullseye for over 20 years. Was always in the top 5 in every match I shot in. Ive benched more ammo out of handguns then some have shot period. If your measuring groups with a caliper and .01 of an inch matters then go for it. I guess some shoot 50 rounds a week. I shoot at least a 1000 a week in the summer. If I had to trim handgun brass id be up all night trimming or would have to hire an assistant (cause I sure aint getting my wife to do it). I load to shoot not shoot to load. If its a waste of time I quit doing it 30 years ago. What ever makes you feel good though! Me I feel good when the gun goes bang not when I look at 50 pretty 44 mags I spent hours loading.

[hlvabeach]

How do you get consistant roll crimp when the case length is not consistent between different brass?

Lee factory pistol crimp die is a no-go with my cast bullets.



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[bluejay75]

How do you get consistant roll crimp when the case length is not consistent between different brass?

Lee factory pistol crimp die is a no-go with my cast bullets.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

You don’t!

Even with a collet or taper you still have to watch whether the crimp is over, under or in the crimp groove. I opt for a collet in most cases. It will make a crimp that will hold and give you good combustion if you are on the bottom edge of the charge or needed a magnum primer and DIDNT have any.

[Rodfac]

For the most part, I don't bother trimming any straight wall handgun brass....but like another poster, I've found that Starline brass (which is my #1 choice), especially in .32 H&R & to some extent, .357 Magnum, can vary considerably in length.

I've also found that the smaller the caliber, the more critical is the condition of the bullet and the consistency of the crimp. In my experience, as the caliber increases, the effects of slight imperfections decreases (crimp depth, slight bullet base anomalies etc.). I've often wondered if this was the reason that .41, .44 special and .44 magnum loads were so easy to find. YMMv, of course as all guns are individuals, but I do even up .32 & .357 Starline brass before loading. Rod

[Lloyd Smale]

most bullets have a crimp grove plenty big enough to allow some variation in length. If you crimp so hard that it causes chambering problems with untrimmed brass your no doubt over crimping. Bottom line is a 44 mag is a 100 yard game gun. You surely aren't going to see accuracy suffer so much that a kill shot is no longer a kill shot. Last I heard there isn't 44mag bench rest competition. The 44 mag is a hunting handgun at my house. What cured me from being so anal was the 475s and 500s. I spent DAYS chasing one inch groups with them. Beating the crap out of myself on the bench. For what? Smallest thing I shot with them were deer and the largest were bison and water buffalo. 99 percent of my hunting with handgun was standing on my own two feet shooting offhand and theres NOBODY I know that can shoot a one inch group off hand with a 500 Linebaugh! A 2 inch group is all you need for any wheel gun hunting of big game. Your time is much better spent perfecting your off hand shooting then bench shooting a gun to get tiny groups. I will chase accuracy on a bolt action rifle used to shoot out at 300 yards or farther off a rest but even then it can sometimes be a waste of time. Like I said I load to shoot. Id much rather spend time shooting then trimming brass to get a 1/10 of an inch better group when the only time your going to see it is off that bench. I don't hunt off a bench and I don't shoot competition off a bench. A guy that's perfected his off hand shooting and trigger control using a gun that shoots 2 inch groups is going to be A LOT more effective then someone who spends there time in the loading room. Id dare say ive killed more or at least as much big game with a 44 mag as anyone here. Can you tell me you've actually missed an animal because you didn't trim brass!!! I sure haven't. My misses were my fault not the loads.
You don’t!

Even with a collet or taper you still have to watch whether the crimp is over, under or in the crimp groove. I opt for a collet in most cases. It will make a crimp that will hold and give you good combustion if you are on the bottom edge of the charge or needed a magnum primer and DIDNT have any.

[44MAG#1]

Once again a clear thinking person has responded. I am in complete agreement with Mr Smale. Once a good load is reached and then one spends countless hours on the bench trying to get another quarter inch smaller group is not good. That extra time is much, much, much, much, much better spent practicing with the good load shooting from different positions like ones used in the hunting situations than chasing the elusive swoon over benchrest group.


most bullets have a crimp grove plenty big enough to allow some variation in length. If you crimp so hard that it causes chambering problems with untrimmed brass your no doubt over crimping. Bottom line is a 44 mag is a 100 yard game gun. You surely aren't going to see accuracy suffer so much that a kill shot is no longer a kill shot. Last I heard there isn't 44mag bench rest competition. The 44 mag is a hunting handgun at my house. What cured me from being so anal was the 475s and 500s. I spent DAYS chasing one inch groups with them. Beating the crap out of myself on the bench. For what? Smallest thing I shot with them were deer and the largest were bison and water buffalo. 99 percent of my hunting with handgun was standing on my own two feet shooting offhand and theres NOBODY I know that can shoot a one inch group off hand with a 500 Linebaugh! A 2 inch group is all you need for any wheel gun hunting of big game. Your time is much better spent perfecting your off hand shooting then bench shooting a gun to get tiny groups. I will chase accuracy on a bolt action rifle used to shoot out at 300 yards or farther off a rest but even then it can sometimes be a waste of time. Like I said I load to shoot. Id much rather spend time shooting then trimming brass to get a 1/10 of an inch better group when the only time your going to see it is off that bench. I don't hunt off a bench and I don't shoot competition off a bench. A guy that's perfected his off hand shooting and trigger control using a gun that shoots 2 inch groups is going to be A LOT more effective then someone who spends there time in the loading room. Id dare say ive killed more or at least as much big game with a 44 mag as anyone here. Can you tell me you've actually missed an animal because you didn't trim brass!!! I sure haven't. My misses were my fault not the loads.

[Bazoo]

Interesting responses. I shoot handguns from the bench, with my hands supported, but not with a rest. It's practice that's beneficial in developing trigger control and grip and sight picture consistency. But I also practice offhand shooting in both target style and defensive stuff.

I crimp pretty heavy on all revolver loads normally. I've found somewhere in the range of .010 difference in length using mixed brass. Not that one brand is long or short but rather there will be an odd couple of x headstamps that are longer than norm. Rather than measure them all I trim them all. I have measured all the brass of a given lot to cull out the unduly short and long examples.

Lloyd, thanks for your comments. You shoot much more than me. At one time I was shooting 500 rounds a week with most of it rimfire but now I'm doing good to shoot 200 rounds a month.

[remy3424]

It seems we have flapping gums here. I don't trim my traditional handgun calibers, but I do think trimming once to uniform the length on revolver cases would give a better end result when you use a heath roll crimp. I finish 4th or better in any match I ever shot in, so hear me roar...honestly, spare us.

[Lloyd Smale]

do what you want but theres not need for personal attacks here.

[Win94ae]

Um, this really isn't that big of a deal.
If your brass is longer than you want it, and you feel like trimming it because of the extra weight; by all means, trim it.

[onelight]

um, this really isn't that big of a deal.
If your brass is longer than you want it, and you feel like trimming it because of the extra weight; by all means, trim it.

like !

[Bazoo]

So, many folks think trimming revolver brass is a waste of time and effort. But what about consistency in the length and then crimp. If you don't trim, do you cull out the long brass? Or is your crimp so light that it will allow for the variation in length? Unless of course you use a collet crimp die as some have said.

[onelight]

In my experience it makes more difference if you are seating and crimping in the same die the longer cases may scrape the bullet when being crimped while seating with a separate crimp die the mouth of the case will be over the crimp groove so no scraping when crimping , yes some of the crimps will be a little heavier than others but will not have a practical impact on accuracy for my use. And there are people here that have much more knowledge and experience than I have whose opinions i very much respect that say the same thing.
I have done it both ways and gave up trimming straight wall pistol cases when I went to separate crimp dies.
If for some reason you wound up with some really short cases (like some Hornady) they are in a separate batch.
The Lee carbide factory crimp die does the same thing for me on auto pistol rounds about 90% of the time.

Like win94ae said if it makes you feel better , or what you are loading for demands the extra precision trim them.

[MT Gianni]

Do you keep your revolver brass in cases and mark how often it has been fired? Do you measure every five or seven times it's shot to see if it's stretching? If so you probably trim all cases when it is. If my loads are all crimping in the groove I don't bother to check length but surely do check it when I have one that doesn't.
My own handgun brass these days is thrown in a bag, tumbled, checked for cracks and loaded. When I get a loose primer pocket it's tossed and I check a whole bunch when I do find they have stretched.
RCBS's X dies have shown me far more cases stretch longitudinally from a sizer die than from being fired.

[Four-Sixty]

I have no comment on trimming and any effect on accuracy. I do trim 38 Special and other straight wall pistol brass to aid with more consistent seating depths.

I used to shoot range pickup brass. So, I had quite a mix of headstamps. While loading Magtech brass in particular, it'd hangup in the die. I measured the Magtech brass and found it to be longer than other brands. I started trimming the Magtech brass with a Lee case length gauge trimmer and found I could remove a lot of brass doing so. They never hung up in the die after being trimmed. I then segregated the Magtech brass and kept track of the number of firings. I got up to half a dozen firings on that brass and it never needed trimming again.

I like Magtech brass. I read somewhere long ago where someone did a longevity study on it and it outlasted many brands by twice as long. Anyway, I bought a bunch of it years ago. In my experience it is longer in length than other brands by a wide margin. So, I always fire new cases one time, then trim them before reloading. It is a chore, but I feel it eliminates a lot of variance in length and I easily get more uniform seating long after.

I shoot Starline's 360DW in my Handi rifle. I have batches going on 3 or 4 firings and I see quite a variance in case length. They'll get trimmed to so I can get more uniform seating depth to.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup last I knew a 44 mag bench rest competition doesn't exist. Whats next. 44 mag bench rest dies and loading them on an arbor press. Weights sorting matched headstamp brass, truing primer pockets?? Air gauged hand lapped 3 inch diameter super black hawk barrels??? Some shoot some talk about it.
Once again a clear thinking person has responded. I am in complete agreement with Mr Smale. Once a good load is reached and then one spends countless hours on the bench trying to get another quarter inch smaller group is not good. That extra time is much, much, much, much, much better spent practicing with the good load shooting from different positions like ones used in the hunting situations than chasing the elusive swoon over benchrest group.

[tuckerdog]

Hit all new to me brass. Random sample mic after a couple firings. Usually wear them out before they need trimmed again. The brass that is exclusively for the hotter loads do tend to grow a tad bit but seldom enough to cause concern. 9.5 unique 250K, 18.5 IMR4227 300wfngc, two .45rb swaged to .431 6.5 reddot. Pretty much covers the gambit of pressures for the .44.

[Wally]

I suggest you set up your caliper to the maximum case length for the .44 or .357 Magnum and just see how many pass through; those that don't, set aside and trim them. You might be surprised how many need trimming. I hate case trimming and have heard others say the same thing. I have a jig using a Forester trimmer that I adapted to use a power drill on the cutter. Makes teh tedious job a lot easier. Also, I saw this post in another forum that I found to be quite true...

I have never bothered trimming any pistol brass so this is my first experience with it and am curious what you guys find acceptable for variations when you are done. I did size my brass before trimming.

I have some older .357 Mag brass that had some wildly varying lengths (1.270-1.293). I was seeing some pretty sloppy crimps because of this.

[Bazoo]

When I trim brass, any that is .002 short goes in the batch and any shorter is culled. I size first or course. The last starline 44 mag I trimmed was a touch short or barely on.

[Wally]

What do you do with the culled cases? I will examine Magnum brass for neck splits----any that have splits short enough I will trim to .38 or .44 Special length. In my M-27 or Taurus 66, I like to shoot the 358429 which seat too long, when crimped in the crimping groove. So I trimmed a batch I label as .357 Magnum short...that are trimmed just enough that I can load the 358429 in the pistols mentioned.

[Three44s]

I trim all my revolver centerfire cases. Once!

Then I inside chamfer and debur.

Then I inside flashole debur them ..... all of them.

Now I am set for a long time. I do not recall needing to re-trim again.

What am I after? Better crimps. No fiddling or sorting and re-running or crumpled cases. A long case with the boolit crimp groove situated below optimum to it and you end up with the edge of the case mouth swagged or creased. Most of these rimmed straight wall cases will fail from mouth splits. Over working those case mouths lead to tossed cases sooner.

I reserve my right to trim auto cases if I see fit but as most headspace on the mouth that can be a red herring.

Do I like trimming? NO. :veryconfu


But as mostly a one off endeavor, I like the results.

Three44s

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the responses.

When I said I cull short brass I was thinking of 38 specials and 357 magnum. I do several things. Throw them out if I'm in the notion, or put them with the headstamps I don't like for trade.

I've not run into short cases in 44 yet as all of what I have was either new brass or fired by me from factory. I would reserve them for 44 specials though when it happens.

[curioushooter]

44 special, even when loaded heavily, doesn't seem to need the brass trimmed in the gun I have or with the dies I use. After 4 reloads or so I do take out the lee stud pin gauge thing and give it a whirl. Usually it trims no brass and maybe just shines the end a little and/or squares it up. I full length size every time with my Hornady dies. I don't have a magnum, but I'd imagine it to be basically the same deal. I have some brass, which is all starline, that has perhaps a dozen reloads on it. It just doesn't get stressed or worked too much, and lasts.

To me the reason to trim straight wall revolver brass has more to do with getting a nice, consistent roll crimp than anything else. I like all my brass to be the same length so they all crimp the same, basically. I have no evidence this makes the ammo perform any better but I do like it better this way so I do it.

With some cases, like 357 Herrett in a T/C Contender, I have having all the brass the same length seems to be important. But that seems to be true of all bottlenecked rimmed brass. My 7.62x54R, 30-40, and 30-30s I am very mindful of their case lengths. I always trim all my bottlenecks even the rimless, though those seem to not have as many problems.

With cases like 357 mag/max that get worked more I preform trimming regularly, again with the lee system. I do this for safety reasons.

I usually lose 9mm brass before it needs to be trimmed. Why I like revolvers/singleshots better!

[winelover]

Keep brass separated by headstamps/lots and no need to trim. Might have to adjust dies, after a time. Might not. I never found the need to trim handgun caliber brass.....pistol or revolver. Heck, I don't chamfer or deburr, either. I doubt very much they do that at the factory. As far as flash holes are concerned...............only check to see they are there and not plugged with media. Been working for me for nearly 50 years.

BTW, Hornady brass is almost always short. I just put it aside. When I accumulate 50 in the same caliber, I will load it. Otherwise, it just sits.

Winelover

[curioushooter]

I don't chamfer or deburr, either.

In 44 special I size .431 which is a bit oversize and I've found chamfering essential on the new starline brass which has a square edge. When you go to crimp it it will ride into and scarf off lead and lube if you don't.

I enjoy making very nice bullets and ammo. I'm not in it for speed, and I would just buy loaded ammo if I didn't want to make something better than loaded ammo.

With 38/357 I have never needed to chamfer since I side that .357 or .358 and it never needs it.

264469

This case has been reloaded 6 times, always full length sized. It has never been tumbled.

[Lloyd Smale]

I like to make better ammo too. but I like to shoot it not admire it and I can make handgun ammo just as good on a progressive press as I can on a single stage. Spend one hour loading and 2 hours shooting instead of 6 hours loading and one hour shooting. I load mostly because at the volume I shoot I couldn't even begin to afford to buy ammo. Id have to live in a pup tent and eat spam! Believe one thing. If Hornady wanted to give me factory ammo id take a truck load! I load and cast to be able to afford to shoot PERIOD. I sure don't dislike doing it but id much rather be shooting.
In 44 special I size .431 which is a bit oversize and I've found chamfering essential on the new starline brass which has a square edge. When you go to crimp it it will ride into and scarf off lead and lube if you don't.

I enjoy making very nice bullets and ammo. I'm not in it for speed, and I would just buy loaded ammo if I didn't want to make something better than loaded ammo.

With 38/357 I have never needed to chamfer since I side that .357 or .358 and it never needs it.

264469

This case has been reloaded 6 times, always full length sized. It has never been tumbled.

[winelover]

I don't load for speed. I batch load on a single stage. Always did and always will. Even my Senior Turret is set up for single stage batch loading......just don't have to change dies as often. I use a Chargemaster to weigh each and every charge. Even most pistol ammo. I will put my reloads up against anyone else's, as far as accuracy goes.

Winelover

[Bazoo]

In my experience it makes more difference if you are seating and crimping in the same die the longer cases may scrape the bullet when being crimped while seating with a separate crimp die the mouth of the case will be over the crimp groove so no scraping when crimping , yes some of the crimps will be a little heavier than others but will not have a practical impact on accuracy for my use. And there are people here that have much more knowledge and experience than I have whose opinions i very much respect that say the same thing.
I have done it both ways and gave up trimming straight wall pistol cases when I went to separate crimp dies.
If for some reason you wound up with some really short cases (like some Hornady) they are in a separate batch.
The Lee carbide factory crimp die does the same thing for me on auto pistol rounds about 90% of the time.

Like win94ae said if it makes you feel better , or what you are loading for demands the extra precision trim them.

Ah. I think you might have touched on the reason I have issues if I don't trim my brass (once). I seat and crimp in the same operation.

Course I load on a single stage press. If I loaded on a Dillion or whatever I could seat and crimp in separate operations without undue work. That brings me to why I load, to save money, self sufficiency, and because I enjoy it.

I also don't use lee die sets mostly, so I don't generally use a collet crimp unless I've bought it separately for rifle calibers.