Fixed My Action

[Win94ae]

This rifle never shot 10 shots at the same POI since I got it. I had a hard time figuring out what was wrong, and realized my action was opening every once in a while. So when polished my locking lugs and got the rifle to never open again, I figured that must had been the problem.
Well, I thought it was fixed and decided to reduce my load from Ruger #1 pressures, to lever action pressures so I could use a scope again. Only thing was, when I tried a group with it, I had a 6 inch low flier.
I figured it had to be the action, because the vertical POI was the symptom. I did more polishing and, when I closed the action then, I knew it was fixed. It closed with no resistance whatsoever, and the lever to open it was good and tight.

Not cast bullets but...
This was yesterday, before the final polishing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38gyF_0_rqo

Notice the vertical element of the group?

Here is today's video after polishing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LQ3pSu1Tts

Hopefully it will stay like this, this isn't the first time I thought I had it fixed.

[uscra112]

Breakopen actions are notorious for this. Experienced users of the Savage 219 were always telling newbies to close the gun exactly the same way every time.

[richhodg66]

I've actually been seriously considering getting one of these rifles to have a hunting .45-70, it's such a fun caliber.

[Texas by God]

When I'm shooting for group with my Topper 44 wcf , I close the action twice before each shot. With .430" boolits especially.

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[Win94ae]

Breakopen actions are notorious for this. Experienced users of the Savage 219 were always telling newbies to close the gun exactly the same way every time.
I had no idea this was a thing, I would have not bought the gun if I would have known.


I've actually been seriously considering getting one of these rifles to have a hunting .45-70, it's such a fun caliber.
I suggest getting something else, it took me years to figure this out.


When I'm shooting for group with my Topper 44 wcf , I close the action twice before each shot. With .430" boolits especially.

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The more I think on this rifle, and the more I hear, I don't think I can trust it for hunting. Maybe it will give me confidence by the time hunting season rolls around.

Thanks!

[Texas by God]

If we get one that doesn't shoot, your work might point to a solution. That's fantastic shooting so far, keep trying it to see if it holds. I haven't heard anything negative about them but I've only seen .243 and 7-08 around here so I haven't tried one.

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[richhodg66]

I have an Optima Elite in 7mm-08 which has never given any problems and shoots well. In fact, I think it is a better rifle than the Handi rifles ever were.

[Win94ae]

If we get one that doesn't shoot, your work might point to a solution. That's fantastic shooting so far, keep trying it to see if it holds. I haven't heard anything negative about them but I've only seen .243 and 7-08 around here so I haven't tried one.

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In this thread is the only place I found negative feedback, I hope yours continue to shoot well.


I have an Optima Elite in 7mm-08 which has never given any problems and shoots well. In fact, I think it is a better rifle than the Handi rifles ever were.
Well, hopefully I don't have to worry about this one anymore.

[koger]

I have a buddy who has one in 35 Rem. and his daughter has one in .243. Both shoot under an inch at 100yds with factory ammo, and both kill deer every year with them. I believe you have the bugs worked out on yours, I would shoot it some more, and if no issues, go hunting with it.

[Win94ae]

I have a buddy who has one in 35 Rem. and his daughter has one in .243. Both shoot under an inch at 100yds with factory ammo, and both kill deer every year with them. I believe you have the bugs worked out on yours, I would shoot it some more, and if no issues, go hunting with it.

I don't think I'll ever get it fixed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRCUWIvF-KE

If I tailor a load to shoot with those sights, I might be near max charge for lever-action, (and I usually do max Ruger #1.)
Then I'll see if it happens again.

That peep is really hard for me, so I'll just not hunt with it. :/

[koger]

Get some good glass, and take that bad boy hunting, that is a shooting machine. Nothing wrong with the rifle, no more mechanical problems, just give it a day or two, put a good scope on it with good mounts, and everything will be alright. If you cant find a deal on a good scope, PM me, I can usually come up with one.

[uscra112]

Hunting with a peep is futile. The wiser heads used to take the aperture right out of their Lyman tang sights, leaving a 3/16" hole. The eye naturally wants to center the front sight in the fuzzy hole, so it's actually accurate enough at woods ranges, especially if you practice. They called it a "ghost ring" rear sight.

[Win94ae]

Get some good glass, and take that bad boy hunting, that is a shooting machine. Nothing wrong with the rifle, no more mechanical problems, just give it a day or two, put a good scope on it with good mounts, and everything will be alright. If you cant find a deal on a good scope, PM me, I can usually come up with one.
I've shot that same size group 30 times with this rifle, the entire time te POI could shift 5 to 8 minutes low at will. Ghost sights, tiny peep sights, semi buckhorns, scopes; the same symptom for 3 years.
I'm going to make sure I don't get the POI shift for a good many shots, before I change anything!


Hunting with a peep is futile. The wiser heads used to take the aperture right out of their Lyman tang sights, leaving a 3/16" hole. The eye naturally wants to center the front sight in the fuzzy hole, so it's actually accurate enough at woods ranges, especially if you practice. They called it a "ghost ring" rear sight.

I'm not hunting with a peep, nor a ghost sight. I see 7 ghost ring holes, if I use that; with this tiny peep; I see 1/2 of the peep at the bottom of a larger peep. None of that works for hunting.

I'm hunting with my 44mag with a scope. This rifle will be in limbo until further testing.

Thanks! :)

[Win94ae]

Just an update; after 18 shots, it did it again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4PzIiLppFc

So this is always going to be a piece of junk.

[swheeler]

For me it would be junked and down the road. If I can not trust it to hit where I aim every single time it is bye-bye-baby!

[koger]

Have you put a good, known reliable scope on it. I had a buddy who was going thru fits with a varmint rifle, would throw a flyer, out 1 1/2 inches from a ragged hole when shooting a 5 shot group. This was a new custom built rifle, and he had a 24x Leupold on it, that he knew was good. I kept at him till he took a 24x Weaver off his benchrest .22, and wa la, the gun shot great. He returned it to Leupold and 10days later he had it back fixed. Never think a good scope cant go wrong. I had a 4x12 Burris I had had for 20 years, and it started skipping around, i knew the gun was a shooter, put another scope on, same deal, problem left.

[725]

I had a Leupold on a .25-06 and the rifle drove me crazy. Got to the point where I had addressed every other thing I could think of. I sent the scope back and when returned, they listed 3 different things that were broken / wrong with the scope. You just never know. If that happened with a Leupold, you can bet your bippy it can happen with a lesser scope.

[uscra112]

Did he not say that the rifle does the same thing with iron sights?

[Drm50]

I’m not one to run down another guys gun but I don’t know why they buy NEW cheap junk. There are local guys into H&R Handi rifles. Ok, if guy doesn’t have the $$ I can see buying one to hunt, that was when they were $100 new. Now prices on H&R are $300+. The new entry grade BA are much better value and shooters. For states like Ohio the companies are making BAs in legal deer cartridges. Since neither tumble guns or new low end BAs have any class at least you will have accuracy.

[Bookworm]

..The new entry grade BA are much better value and shooters. For states like Ohio the companies are making BAs in legal deer cartridges. Since neither tumble guns or new low end BAs have any class at least you will have accuracy.

What's a BA ?

[Drm50]

BA = Bolt Action

[Win94ae]

For me it would be junked and down the road. If I can not trust it to hit where I aim every single time it is bye-bye-baby!
Exactly my sentiments.


Have you put a good, known reliable scope on it.
I had iron sights on it for the last 18 shots. Not the scope.


Did he not say that the rifle does the same thing with iron sights?
Yep, no matter what I do, and I have done everything, it will throw shots every so often.


I’m not one to run down another guys gun but I don’t know why they buy NEW cheap junk. There are local guys into H&R Handi rifles. Ok, if guy doesn’t have the $$ I can see buying one to hunt, that was when they were $100 new. Now prices on H&R are $300+. The new entry grade BA are much better value and shooters. For states like Ohio the companies are making BAs in legal deer cartridges. Since neither tumble guns or new low end BAs have any class at least you will have accuracy.
I waited 2 years before I bought that rifle, and I bought it because it had the best reviews of all the candidates. If I would have known what I know now, obviously I would not have bought it.
Like I said in my earlier post, if the 2 rifles I have for deer hunting cannot be fixed, I would be getting a Mossberg in 350 legend. Fortunately the Marlin 1894 locking bolt fitting was successful.

[uscra112]

The only break-action rifle I know of that isn't prone to this vertical flier problem is the Civil-War era Maynard. It pulls the barrel tightly into it's seat with a toggle mechanism, there is no locking bolt which may or may not engage uniformly. The design worked so well that it even won more than a few Schuetzen medals in its' day, but sad to say it went out-of-print in 1890. A neat feature was that you could swap barrels simply by backing out the lever pin, no tools needed. It takes 15 seconds if you are good at it. Cased sets were sold with three and four barrels including shotgun barrels. Those still extant bring nosebleed prices today. Dr. Maynard was the inventor of paper roll caps, which in the early rifle models took the place of separate percussion caps. The guns went obsolete, but 165 years later you can still get roll caps for your kid's (or your) cap guns.

http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-galleries/a-nation-asunder-1861-to-1865/case-14-union-carbines/massachusetts-arms-co-maynard-breechloading-carbine.aspx

Why someone doesn't revive the concept is quite beyond me.

[Win94ae]

The only break-action rifle I know of that isn't prone to this vertical flier problem is the Civil-War era Maynard. It pulls the barrel tightly into it's seat with a toggle mechanism, there is no locking bolt which may or may not engage uniformly. The design worked so well that it even won more than a few Schuetzen medals in its' day, but sad to say it went out-of-print in 1890. A neat feature was that you could swap barrels simply by backing out the lever pin, no tools needed. It takes 15 seconds if you are good at it. Cased sets were sold with three and four barrels including shotgun barrels. Those still extant bring nosebleed prices today. Dr. Maynard was the inventor of paper roll caps, which in the early rifle models took the place of separate percussion caps. The guns went obsolete, but 165 years later you can still get roll caps for your kid's (or your) cap guns.

http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-galleries/a-nation-asunder-1861-to-1865/case-14-union-carbines/massachusetts-arms-co-maynard-breechloading-carbine.aspx

Why someone doesn't revive the concept is quite beyond me.

I had no idea this was a thing, until this post. What can I say, everyone elses guns were perfect, except mine. Isn't that strange how that works?
Thanks!

[uscra112]

Some examples of these modern break-opens work, some don't. I have no idea exactly why, but it might be connected with "stacking" of machining tolerances. Give me half a million $$$ for a Zeiss scanning CMM and support facilities, and 100 examples of each design, and maybe in a year I can tell you. :cool: