Anyone ever build from scratch ?

[Wolfdog91]

Saw a guy on one of my FB groups about two weeks ago who posted a picture of a beautiful muzzle loader he built from scratch. Think it was a .32 cal Kentucky rifle. Said it cost him like $30 building it from scratch..... well I was going to message him and ask about the details but ended up getting a 30day ban on FB so until that's up I figured this would be a good place to ask lol.
So has anyone ever made a muzzle loader from scratch? Or close to it ? Heck even just out if mis matched parts. If so what did you use whay was your process ,how did it come out ? Just extremely curious because other than kit builds and guys making stuff with steel piping and a 2x4 can't really seem to find much.
Thanks!

[Newboy]

One of the "Foxfire" books has more information than I have seen.


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[frkelly74]

Why did you get banned??? It was a fantasy of mine to build from scratch but I have given up on it. My building from scratch efforts have produced very marginal results and some scrap. Kit builds have gone better.

[dondiego]

You can make a good ram rod for $30.

[SSGOldfart]

You can make a good ram rod for $30.

If you're good at it I bet he had $300 in his build. If not more.

[RU shooter]

If one had a forge and the iron/ steel already on hand and a lot of time and skills . Even gathering up old used parts I doubt could be done for 30 bucks anymore .

[waksupi]

I don't build locks and barrels, but have built a lot from planks.

[arcticap]

There was a young man on youtube who built at least 4 pistols basically from scratch. 2 or 3 parlor pistols and a .22 muzzle loading pistol for hunting.
He made the action parts and stock himself and had quite a following of other youth who also wanted to learn from him.
He owned and fired other factory made guns and kits, but he wanted to become a gunsmith and was fulfilling his dream.
He eventually joined the military.
But he showed many others that building a gun from scratch is possible for anyone with enough imagination who puts their mind to it.
With all of his guns, the nipple served as the breech plug.
For comparison, a Pedersoli Rider Derringer parlor pistol costs from $240 - $305.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1e2JFoifAM&feature=channel_video_title

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIGHHficaKU

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zu6ZXUEIeQ

4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCzClbDx9jw

I've bought guns that were made from scratch.
Underhammer pistols that were made by a craftsman using barrel remnants from his underhammer rifle builds.
He made and tempered his own springs, and could make his own parts from raw steel.

There is a gunsmith in Argentina who does it to an even higher degree as he rifles his own barrels and casts his own receivers.
Perhaps I can find a video that he posted.

[stubshaft]

I don't build locks and barrels, but have built a lot from planks.

Ditto.

[arcticap]

The Argentina gunsmith's name is Osvaldo Reynaldo Gatto and he has a facebook page and youtube videos.
He's one of a small number of people who can build a wheellock from scratch in his shop.
His shop is named Armas Antiguas Osvaldo Gatto.
His name on the muzzle loading forum is AAOG.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/armasantiguasosvaldogatto/?ref=search&__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARDuBTSU9f9x6ULAyn5WbTe70TdwYlaBW_2MHOA-gLipPCJyBMW3nAGfamOOgvAPN1sQPEeN8wzbYIfz

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/osvaldogatto

This is his website: http://www.osvaldogatto.com.ar/index.php?lang=en

Not sure where all of his videos are located, perhaps some are embedded on facebook.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Only lock I ever thought about attempting was a Match Lock. Used scrap steel and old saw blades. The "example" I used for pattern was from an Austrian museum that had photos inside and out of near 100 matchlocks on the sight. The one I chose was a typical English style for troops around 1600.
I do not know for sure when many American Gunsmiths stopped making everything in shop but consider the Remington plant had a good barrel business going by 1820.

Anyway the whole story about my very simplistic build is posted here in muzzleloaders. Just type in "Matchlock Build" in the Google Custom Search. Took me 3 months . My total cost was under $10 as I used whatever we had in my "stuff" from other projects.. The 2x6 plank of pine would have been more than enough for another build but got used for a new carport roof.
Mike in LLama Land

[hondo1892]

I build full time. I see no way of making a muzzle loading rifle for $30. If you could get the wood for free then you still need barrel material. I've seen guys use seamless tubing for barrels but I wouldn't trust it. I enjoy having all my fingers and both eyes. If you could get the raw material for $30 you would have way more than that in tools. A couple of good files would cost more than that. You would need several really good files if you were to attempt a build from scratch. Wallace Gusler used to be master gun smith at Williamsburg and builds rifles from scratch with no power tools except a small b&d hand drill. It can be done but not for $30. I know how to weld up barrels from a scelp of wrought iron but I would have to use close to thirty dollars of coal to just weld the barrel.

[LawrenceA]

When you say build it depends what you build exactly. Youtube has a fair bit of info on builds.
Just search on muzzle loader build or long rifle build.

Track of the wolf, amongst others, sells everything required.
You could make something that goes bang but that is about all and even then it is for how long.
To do a scratch build will also depend on your version of scratch and what lock.
Are you making springs and screws? Are you out looking for timber to harvest and smelting ore?
If you have all the time, tools and expertise then you would get change out of $30.

Most people consider a scratch build as one where an assortment of pre fabricated parts are brought together.
This cannot be done for $30 unless two or more major components is free.
A collection of parts will start at around 500 to 600 for quality and this excludes the stock.
Traditions Kits would be about the cheapest collection of parts you can get.
I am currently building what I would consider a scratch build where I have used a plank second hand barrel and made the lock. This will cost maybe 350. The plank cost 200.

[KCSO]

I have posted pictures before of the pistol I built from loose parts in the shop and a hand rifled barrel. Inlays were from salvage brass from a center pivot and the stock was a tree stump we cut down 5 years before. The lock was assembled from leftover parts and the sights forged from iron rod. All work was done by
hand or on authentic machines. Post drill breast drill hand powered turning lathe ect. Mostly I use l and r locks and I use to use Orion Barrels and now Green Mountain. I can't do this for other folks but did this one just to see if I could.

[mazo kid]

I haven't built nearly as many guns as Waksupi, but I have made 5 from "scratch". The cheapest one was a matchlock; I had bought a barrel from Dixie back in the 80s(?) for $5.00, made my own lock mechanism and a stock from a walnut plank. Unfortunately that got ruined in an indoor flood and I haven't replaced the stock. As far as any other long gun build, you will have ~$200.00 in a barrel, $140.00 in a lock, $40.00 (and up!) in a stock blank. Many of us have accumulated barrels, locks, etc. over the years so that cost will be less.

[waksupi]

I haven't built nearly as many guns as Waksupi, but I have made 5 from "scratch". The cheapest one was a matchlock; I had bought a barrel from Dixie back in the 80s(?) for $5.00, made my own lock mechanism and a stock from a walnut plank. Unfortunately that got ruined in an indoor flood and I haven't replaced the stock. As far as any other long gun build, you will have ~$200.00 in a barrel, $140.00 in a lock, $40.00 (and up!) in a stock blank. Many of us have accumulated barrels, locks, etc. over the years so that cost will be less.

The best locks took a jump up to $175 now. The last plain Jane maple plank I got still ran me around $120 delivered.

[mooman76]

The only way he could build for that cheap was if someone gave him the parts or he bought junked parts cheap. I use to want to build one from scratch, scratch meaning buy the parts and a stock blank to carve out. I just don't have the patients these days. I have put a few kits together though.

[mazo kid]

My first scratch-built gun cost me ~$110.00 back in the early '70s. A decent curley maple blank was $25.00, Douglas barrel was $45.00, and because left hand locks were hard to find (and because I was ch... err um, frugal) I got a pair of L-R shotgun locks for $28.00 from Dixie. The other small parts I got from a local small supplier.

[eggwelder]

I build full time. I see no way of making a muzzle loading rifle for $30. If you could get the wood for free then you still need barrel material. I've seen guys use seamless tubing for barrels but I wouldn't trust it. I enjoy having all my fingers and both eyes. If you could get the raw material for $30 you would have way more than that in tools. A couple of good files would cost more than that. You would need several really good files if you were to attempt a build from scratch. Wallace Gusler used to be master gun smith at Williamsburg and builds rifles from scratch with no power tools except a small b&d hand drill. It can be done but not for $30. I know how to weld up barrels from a scelp of wrought iron but I would have to use close to thirty dollars of coal to just weld the barrel.

Each to their own, And not starting an argument because i`ll forget i posted this, but I do get a kick out of it when people trash talk the use of off the shelf seamless tubing but advocate hand forging and Forge welding their own barrel. If you are good enough at it i suppose, but i`d never try it myself, and i`d want to see the maker shoot it first. how were barrels made after forge welding was no longer required? even musket barrels, such as a brown bess?
If you use seamless- make sure it is hydraulic tubing (My opinion- have seen several successfully built barrels, both smooth and rifled made from this) with a thick enough sidewall. It`s out there. Used more often than you think. But- if you don`t know what you are doing, leave that to the professionals. More than one way to skin a cat i guess.
There are a few forums that have sections on building muzzleloaders- google is your friend in this case.

[john.k]

Hydraulic tubing is drawn seamless,and each length is proof tested to a pressure somewhere from 8000psi to 12ooo psi........It also has a brilliant mirror smooth bore,if you select a bit from the rack ,as sometimes there are internal scratches you dont want ....for a few dollars more ,stainless hydraulic tube is also available .......What I do is to use piece of hollow hydraulic ramshaft ,which is around 5/8 bore(1 1/4 OD) ,but has spiral swaging marks ,ream it out to suit the hydraulic tube OD,push fit the inner tube ,bobs yer uncle .......one solid load will lock both together,and you can rifle the inner tube with a single point cutter ,one groove at a time ........if you leave narrow lands ,then 80% of the original surface is cut away ,and the barrel is honed out bright.......OOps ,didnt mention ,the inner has to be carefully straightened ,so its slips easily in the reamed hole...........I have "proof tested" these builtup tubes to est 35k psi ,without incident.......The proof load also locks the two together for rifling.

[john.k]

When you get a bit of hydraulic tube 10 or 12 ft long ,its a hoot to thread one end ,and fire a few shots from the super long barrel.....My favourite tubes are 52 cal....actually 13mmID,18mm OD...and the 45 cal one ...11mm ID and 16mmOD ......these are about the thickest walls available from the hydraulic shop ......but I have noticed big excavators have super heavy tubes to hydraulic hammer connecting fitting .....so solid ,that to straighten bent tubes ,I have to use a press.....might be worth investigating to see if smaller bores are available.

[indian joe]

Each to their own, And not starting an argument because i`ll forget i posted this, but I do get a kick out of it when people trash talk the use of off the shelf seamless tubing but advocate hand forging and Forge welding their own barrel. If you are good enough at it i suppose, but i`d never try it myself, and i`d want to see the maker shoot it first. how were barrels made after forge welding was no longer required? even musket barrels, such as a brown bess?
If you use seamless- make sure it is hydraulic tubing (My opinion- have seen several successfully built barrels, both smooth and rifled made from this) with a thick enough sidewall. It`s out there. Used more often than you think. But- if you don`t know what you are doing, leave that to the professionals. More than one way to skin a cat i guess.
There are a few forums that have sections on building muzzleloaders- google is your friend in this case.

I was kind of amused too ----modern seamless hydraulic tube is dangerous and forge welded wrought iron/ mild steel is safe ????? dunno about that one .

[john.k]

Even if you drill your own barrel from solid bar ,ordinary mill run bar is likely to have flaws in the steel ,unless you buy a special grade guaranteed to be free of defects .....This grade is defined in ITAR as a prohibited export......So ,I would back several layers of hydraulic tube as by far the safest home made barrel.....A bit like the built up construction of the first smokeless naval guns ,or even the big blackpowder shell guns like the Armstrong muzzle loaders.