Saving a riding mower.

[Idaho45guy]

Last week, my elderly father called and said his 2010 Cub Cadet riding mower started smoking and rattling so he shut it off. He popped the hood and found oil had sprayed everywhere. Apparently, he checked the oil and forgot to put the dipstick back in.

Rather than put oil back in it and see if it was OK, he just bought a new mower. He said I could come get the old one for free. I figured even if the motor was toast, I remember seeing new law mower engines for cheap.

So I drove out to his place today and took a look at it. Checked the oil and nothing in it, so filled it up. Fired it up and it immediately started rattling and knocking badly. Then I saw oil start pouring out underneath the engine. Broken block.

Motor is a Kohler 20hp magnum OHV.

I declined to take it off his hands since I wasn't sure if it was going to be worth trying to save.

Got home and a factory replacement motor is $1600!! His new Husqvarna mower was $1700. I found that Harbor Freight sells a comparable 22hp motor for $800.

I don't really need a riding mower. I have a double lot and with my little pushmower, it takes me maybe a couple of hours to do the whole thing.

I figured if a new motor was $300 or so, then it might be worth it. I could always sell the mower for a few hundred if I found that it wasn't worth the hassle.

But at $800 for a new motor to put into a ten year old worn out machine, I don't think it makes sense.

[Thumbcocker]

Try J. B. welding the broken area just for giggles.

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[Winger Ed.]

I got a free roto tiller one time with a blown motor from not having any oil.

It broke a rod, and pushed it out the side of the block.

I got a shop manual, a new rod, new rings, a couple of gaskets and a oil seal or two.
I JB welded a fiberglass cloth patch over the block, put it back together,
and lived happily ever after.

[Kraschenbirn]

Kinda depends upon how much 'sweat equity' you want to put into the job. The MV20 has been discontinued but, IIRC, all those old cast-iron Kohlers used essentially same block. If it were me, I'd spend some time prowling around the small engine/tractor shops looking for a broke down Kohler Cadet with an intact block and go from there. (As a 'winter project', I once rebuilt a Yamaha 400 twin for my wife using parts from three different bikes...her original bike and two others that had been totaled out by an insurance company and were sitting in the junk heap behind the local dealership.) She rode that Yammy for more three years and we still came out ahead of what I'd paid for those junkers when we sold it.

Bill

[EMC45]

You may want to keep checking Harbor Freight. They have the Predator series motors for deep discounts at times and they are clones of the higher end company motors and they are stout.

[jessdigs]

I would put the HF engine in. If you don't want it you could sell it.
22hp horizonal shaft HF engine.
https://www.harborfreight.com/22-hp-670cc-v-twin-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-61614.html

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[jessdigs]

22 HP vertical shaft riding mower engin. HF
https://www.harborfreight.com/22-hp-708cc-v-twin-vertical-shaft-gas-engine-epa-62879.html

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[bedbugbilly]

If you don't want to go the HF way - I'd hang on to the mower and start putting feelers out for a used engine. You never know what someone might have sitting around - possibly a mower with a working engine but the deck is shot or something similar that they might sell cheap. Put a used engine in it and see if you don't need it. Or . . . if you don't want to spend the money, I'd look at parting out the mower and putting parts on flabby or similar - you never know if someone is looking for parts for a 10 year old Cub - something that will extend the life of their mower and they don't have to pay the high price for replacement parts from the mfg.

[Land Owner]

I have a SKAG Tiger Cub with a currently "unknown-unknown" shuts itself down problem, with which I won't bore you. I have been watching You Tube videos of "all sorts" of small engine repairs, including one where the "tester-guy" cuts his (blown - bad rod bearing) mower engine in HALF, well, cuts away the side walls so the viewer can watch the mower THROW A ROD from no oil (lasted about 2.5 minutes). Way cool!

In other YT videos, the "experienced" and "DIY'ers" take engines apart and put them back together in GREAT DETAIL. It SEEMS to be no BIG DEAL.

I will admit, there is a LOT of mechanical knowledge that I DON'T POSSESS with regard to piston sleeves, honing, rings, gaskets, machine shop (or not) very close tolerances, torque specs, etc., BUT I CAN LEARN (hopefully not the hard way). At 66 years young, I am still inclined to Do It Myself - though my "problem child of a mower" is probably more electric (thinking clutch and PTO switch) than mechanical (not blown engine).

Spending money to REBUILD a motor is practical - if you don't know how, have not done a few, but GET HELP. Blowing one up that you just "fixed" by yourself, losing both your time and the money invested (in this down economy) DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. There ARE used motors (if you don't find a used block).

Riding a lawn mower MAKES SENSE the older we get - regardless of the acreage.

One more thing - from another DIY video of a metal boat restoration (Danger Marine 38 footer that in the end "cost too much") - you have to consider where to draw a line at GOOD ENOUGH versus GOT TO GO NEW. What will YOU tolerate by way of GOOD ENOUGH? How many $$'s are too many? What is your TIME worth? Stop the bleeding. Walk (or run) away. Or, GO THE DISTANCE?

[Win94ae]

Kohler! I have one in front of my garage cracked block. These are notorious for being substandard junk.

[jonp]

I'm a little confused. Your assuming it needs a motor without putting a quart of oil in it and trying it?

[Idaho45guy]

I'm a little confused. Your assuming it needs a motor without putting a quart of oil in it and trying it?

Not sure how you would get that from my post in which I said: "Checked the oil and nothing in it, so filled it up. Fired it up and it immediately started rattling and knocking badly. Then I saw oil start pouring out underneath the engine. Broken block."

[jonp]

Not sure how you would get that from my post in which I said: "Checked the oil and nothing in it, so filled it up. Fired it up and it immediately started rattling and knocking badly. Then I saw oil start pouring out underneath the engine. Broken block."

Oh, sorry about that. For some reason missed it.
I'd first try to fix the block with JB Weld. Cheap fix to try and maybe put some Lucas in with the oil and see what happens. If no dice I'd either try a used lawnmower place for an engine, tons of them around here or HF for a motor.
You also might consider a smaller 17-18hp motor for the lawnmower. HDepot had one for under $400 and Jack's Small Engines for about $500 or so. Ordered from Jack's several times, good company. If your just using it to mow then a 22hp is a little overkill.

[frkelly74]

Never go to Harbor Freight without a coupon!!

[Pipefitter]

Riding lawn mower???


You have a saddle to fit a sheep?

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree that it probably isn't worth replacing the engine. While a new engine would correct the problem, the rest of the mower is 10 years old. That's not horrible in terms of age and many mowers go well beyond that mark but $1600 is pretty big gamble.

Even a less expensive option would be more risk than I would want to sink into a 10 year old mower.

[Blanket]

if everything else is in good shape I would repower with the HF motor

[NyFirefighter357]

The last lawn tractor I bought used was $100 and I installed a $12 starter solenoid & new battery. Got 4-5 years out of it & it was 20+ yrs old. It burned up a special magneto and I wasn't spending the $150 for a new one. I now use a free to me walk behind mower that came running just fine. You can find that motor cheaper but it's still not worth it. You can also get the short block for about $600 but that still not worth it. If you looked around you can buy a working lawn tractor for under $500. I miss my tractor as I have a 1/2 ton capacity dump trailer for it.

https://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/-p-51681?gclid=CjwKCAjw_-D3BRBIEiwAjVMy7N5nQsulJdOf-R8cGVv4CplTwdBuUekqVvDA_vDlfjvl0UAMJOwxuhoC7VoQAvD _BwE

https://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/d/spokane-craftsman-18hp-42-cut-riding/7150181630.html

https://spokane.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=lawn%20tractor&sort=rel

https://i.imgur.com/4TquVKx.jpg

[samari46]

I have a sears Craftsman riding lawn mower. It's my little mule as I have an old cart I bought about 24 years ago. I shudder to think how many yimes I have loaded up that cart with tree limbs,branches,hurricane debris, bricks and probably forget what else I put in that cart. Don't recall what I paid for it but it's now showing it's age. The bottom has rusted away in some places. Probably put some pressure treated plywood on the floor and fixed in place with sheet metal screws. For the big stuff I use my Kubota L3800 with the front end loader. Gonna get the attachment
that has the teeth like a back hoe. Have a big pile of dirt left over when we had the new septic system installed. My BIL will leave a trailer and I'll fill it up and he goes to his sons place and dumps it where the old swimming pool was and level it. Frank

[10x]

I visit the local dump.
I have picked several riding mowers that needed a new spark plug, the water drained from the float bowl, or a new electric fuel shut off (A solenoid on the float bowl)
My current push mower is a pickup from the dump. Cleaned the foam air cleaner, replaced the shutoff brake cable and put a new plug in it.
Folks discard small engines at the first sign of trouble.

[MT Gianni]

Riding lawn mower???


You have a saddle to fit a sheep?

When you mow a couple of acres a rider is necessary. I have too much pride to put a sheep on the place, maybe goats but not woolies.

[Scrounge]

When you mow a couple of acres a rider is necessary. I have too much pride to put a sheep on the place, maybe goats but not woolies.

You mean "range maggots?" Goats are actually just as bad, and maybe worse. Do make great barbecue, though. Lambs are cute, and fuzzy, and make great chops and roasts, but you have to put up with their stupid parents to get them for either purpose. And they grow up to be just as stupid.

[megasupermagnum]

I've never in my life ever paid for a lawn mower, and most small equipment like weed whips, chainsaws, etc. A $3 can of carb spray has bought me the great majority of the equipment I own.

This should help you with your engine block, it is worth a shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIIRAxYkrc8

[OldBearHair]

I have a Murray motor sitting in my shop that I would sell fairly cheap. Stating this because if you look around and not get in a hurry, you may find someone with a motor sitting in their shop that lives close to you. A donkey will eat just about anything, is a lot smarter than sheep or goats and will police the area keeping predators at bay as well.

[country gent]

Replacing the block will be big time consuming job and with new consumable parts bearings seals rings and other parts may be as expensive as the new motor. I would look for a lawn mower salvage yard and a good solid used motor. You do want to hear and see it run if possible.

I have one down the road from me. Hes reasonable and knows a lot. Ive gotten parts from him in the past spindles steering, transmisions, and other things.

Its not so much the age but the hours on it. Ive seen city mowers 15 years old with 500 hours on them. A mower may sit in the garage way more than ran.

[Petrol & Powder]

Considering the OP doesn't need the mower and his father has already replaced his........it seems to be a moot point.

At 10 years old the mower isn't beyond saving but it is 10 years old. Putting $1600 in to a 10 year old mower that cost $1700 to replace is not fiscally responsible. And it's more than the engine; it is a deck, a transaxle, tires. belts and a bunch of other stuff - All of which is 10 years old.

I'm not sure I would even dump $800 into a 10 year old consumer grade riding mower unless it was otherwise pristine.

I would sell the mower, "As Is" with the full disclosure that it needs an engine and be done with it.

[megasupermagnum]

Watch that video. If you can fix the problem with a C clamp and epoxy, it is well worth it. There is absolutely no reason to spend huge money one something like this. These engines are beyond simple.

[Petrol & Powder]

The video was mildly entertaining.

[megasupermagnum]

The video was mildly entertaining.

I love Taryl.

[farmbif]

my experience is the latest version of Kohler motors are throw away, getting parts to rebuild one is not easy and very expensive. my grasshopper has a 20hp horizontal and only a specific spec number of one particular family of Kohler fits and they start at about $1800. mine has 1600 hours and will no longer create enough vacuum to run the fuel pump, it needs to be rebuilt. $1800 is a lot less than $7k for a new mower

[Pipefitter]

When you mow a couple of acres a rider is necessary. I have too much pride to put a sheep on the place, maybe goats but not woolies.

Just one problem with goats: they eat everything except grass. That is why I tell people to buy a lamb in the spring, collar it and move the stake every couple of days, then "invite it to be the guest of honor for Thanksgiving", so you don't have to feed it all winter.

[country gent]

The block was broken by some reason, impact stress, heat deforming expanding it. There is now a knock and it may be from the distorted block putting something in a bind or out of alignment. Just glueing over it to seal may not do it.

We had a 1066 diesel tractor with a fine crack on the oil return passage that we veed out and filled with epoxy. it did work but figuring out where the crack was and getting cleaned was a big job.

ALot of the old brigs kholers and other air cooled motors blew up with a full load og ol as the slinger broke or a steep angle kept them starved for oil

[Moleman-]

Had a IH cub cadet 582 that needed a rebuild. If you're doing the work yourself it's feasible. Paying someone to do it? better off buying a new engine/mower. For the OP, keep a lookout for a good used engine or complete mower (any brand with that same engine) that has a bad hydrostat or whatever. Had another CC for the kids to use that had a B&S opposed engine in it. Got it for $100 because the guy had run it without enough oil in it and a connecting rod broke, which in turn punched a hole in the block. Got a used complete engine out of a murray mower for $120 and dropped it right in. A couple wire connectors were different as was the engine paint color but that was it. Used it for 3-4 more years and sold it for more $ than we had into it.

Currently our 7 year old ryobi 4cycle weed wacker is down. Front cam bearing is wallowed out. Likely a $5 bearing once you get to it. Don't know if it put metal throughout the engine or not, but found a NIB longblock for it for $33. Engine showed up a little bit ago and will be swapping it out in a bit.

[BamaNapper]

A few years ago I went to Home Depot looking for a riding mower. It was $1699 new for the 20HP model I wanted. But they had the factory refurbs sitting there for an even $1200. I asked if the price on the refurbs was negotiable and the salesman said he had to talk to the manager. He came back and said they could take 1/3 off the price. I picked out a refurb with less than 2 hours on the run meter and had it for $800 with the full warranty. I'm still using it and replaced nothing but the blades.

I know it doesn't speak to the OP, but sometimes you can actually find 'good as new' for the price of a project. And I learned to ask about the price on refurbs.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm so far behind on projects that I couldn't get to it until after mowing season was over, lol. I spent 3 hours yesterday just cleaning and detailing my SUV. I take it into the woods Sunday so it will need it again next week.

[john.k]

My rider is locally made like tank,no pressed anything ,even the cutter spindle bearings are taper rollers in machined steel housings .......made in 1976,a bit of rust ,nothin but the Briggs will ever wear out,been rebuilt several times ....when Im gone ,no one will want it ,cause its not pretty......My old man had a mower he made himself ,with an Indian motorbike engine and gearbox......I warned him about locking it away ,because Indian stuff was getting valuable ,he ignored me ....and it was stolen.

[akajun]

you can find NOS crate motors for mowers online. Jacks Small Engine is where I got my last one but there are other places. It was a Kohler 19hp with the same issue, cracked crankcase ( theres no block). Fixing it is a waste of time especially with epoxy. Anyway I found a NOS kohler motor for my mower which was a later series that supposedly fixed the cracking issue which is a known problem on those engines. $600 shipped to my door. It only took me an hour to install the new motor since the wiring harness was the same, I simply unplugged, unbolted, and installed.
spend some time with google, search the consumer name ie Kohler courage 20hp, and the model number.

[EDG]

There appears to be a 22 HP Kohler block on ebay....