Traditions Deer Hunter load??

[djohns28]

For my birthday yesterday my wife got me a Traditions Deer Hunter rifle kit. I have never had a front stuffer but I am familiar enough with one to not blow myself up. I reload rifle and pistol cartridges so I'm well aware of standard warnings.

Anyone know a good place to start on one of these? I want to run a round ball and patch. Not sure what size ball or patch to get. I was also thinking a sabot slug for hunting if it proves more accurate. The only black powder or substitute I have used in firearms has been 777 FFG in 44/40 cowboy loads. I don't mind loose powder. The booklet said 100 grains was max charge, 65-80 grains was most accurate.

Suggestions?

[BigAlofPa.]

I run 80 grains of goex black powder in my traditions flintlock 50 cal. For plinking i run 60 grains. In my CVA inline 100 grains of pyrodex. And 75 grains for plinking. Hope this helpful.

[Hossfly]

I shoot 2 pellets with sabot out to 100 yds. Very accurate, tried 3 which should= 150 grains and was on target except 1 foot higher and had a punch.

[djohns28]

I shoot 2 pellets with sabot out to 100 yds. Very accurate, tried 3 which should= 150 grains and was on target except 1 foot higher and had a punch.

Hossfly I used to run around Ruston a lot. Spent a good bit of time up there on D'arbonne. What brand of pellet did you run?

[Ozark mike]

It will take some experimenting to find the accurate charge. I try not to get caught up in all the stuff the gunstore will sell. Instead i just use pillow ticking or other cloth strips around the house powder balls homemade cheap lube and caps make it fun not expensive. For patch size stick ticking over bbl push ball in flush cut off excess.

[RU shooter]

In the typical shallow groove barrels they and other imports (and TC) have id start with .490 ball and a .015 thick patch . For killing paper start at 50 grs of 3F or 60 2F powder .just lube the patch with spit for target practice stick it in yer mouth and get it good and slobbery load and shoot .

[mooman76]

I generally start with grains equal to caliber or 50 gr. for a 50 caliber. Half that for small calibers and pistols. Then work up in 5 grain increments until I find the best load. Most people seem to start with RBs .010 under caliber with .015 pillow ticking or natural fiber cloth like cotton. Make sure it's a good tight weave cloth. For lube, the sky is the limit. Crisco will work in a pinch even though may not be the best. I've never shot sabot before, they are usually best for the lighter twist in inlines but that doesn't mean it won't work in yours. I believe yours has a 1-48 twist which is generally good for RBs and conicals.

[Good Cheer]

Howdy djohns,
What parts of Texas do you hale from? We lived in Liberty County for twenty years.

First suggestion for you; make up a light charge easy to load .490 round ball bunny killer and hunt with it. If that is you eat bunnies. You can load down a fifty to the point that you really won't be tearing up much, a shoulder fired wrist rocket.

Second suggestion; research coning the barrel. Lots of people will recoil in horror at the suggestion. How much metal you take off the muzzle is up to the shooter. A little metal removal can smooth it up and greatly improve the mechanical characteristics of how your piece loads.

Third suggestion; if by chance you already have an extended eye relief pistol type scope...
http://i.imgur.com/cRZVk39.jpg (https://imgur.com/cRZVk39)
Yep, it's true, I'm one of those guys what owns a scary black rifle.
Those clamp on type mounts can be be pretty cool if you are developing loads over distance. Not saying you should put a scope on your piece permanently. Just saying that there is a means of temporarily putting some glass on it for load development if the fancy strikes you, and you don't have to drill and tap your barrel. And it doesn't interfere with the ram rod.

[arcticap]

I usually always use 3F in sidelocks.
The smaller grains make it easier for the powder to flow into the flash channel for better ignition.
Magnum caps can also help.
If using 777, you won't need as much powder since it's 10% - 20% stronger than others depending on whether it's 2F or 3F.
A .490 ball and a .015 patch is a good fit for the Deer Hunter's bore.
I would start with 50 grains of 777 and work up in 5 grain increments to suit your fancy.
Good luck!

[djohns28]

Good cheer, I'm in Camp county. As lunch would have it my barrel is drilled and tapped but it also has fiber optic sights. I need to burn some powder and just get used to loading it and getting it to actually ignite consistently. After the fifth round or so it started failing to fire. The cap would go off but the powder wouldn't ignite. I had to drop a few granules of powder (pyrodex 2f) under the nipple and it would go off. I suspect that it being completely cleaned every three rounds would help the misfire situation. I may try 3f 777 to see if it burns cleaner leading to a few more shots between a complete tear down and cleaning.

[arcticap]

Place the hammer on 1/2 cock and remove the spent cap before ramming.
After dropping the powder into the barrel and before loading the ball, hold the gun angled slightly upward with the drum facing toward the ground, and bump or slap the side of the gun with the heel of the hand several times to coax the powder into the drum with the help of gravity.
Then when you ram the patched round ball, the air whooshing out of the nipple hole should also help promote the flow of powder into the flash hole and drum.
A nipple pick can be used once in a while to make sure that the hole at the bottom of the nipple is clear.
If you have any ignition problems after that, then use magnum caps or switch powders.
An aftermarket nipple is not usually needed.

I have a Deer Hunter and other Traditions sidelocks with drums and that's the standard loading procedure.
Pyrodex P doesn't usually have a problem igniting with standard caps using this method.
And I haven't had any problem using small charges of 3F 777 in a .36 Traditions sidelock.

If you can't get reliable ignition with the 2F 777 using the above methods and still want to be able to use it up,
then a small 10 grain booster charge of 3F powder can be loaded into the bore first, before the main charge of the 2F.

There are other fixes, such as using a conversion nipple that uses a musket cap, but generally that's not needed.
It requires that the hammer be perfectly centered on the larger conversion nipple.
There's even a conversion nipple device that uses a 209 primer, but those options are just for you to be aware of.

[fixit]

Having gotten fed up with slow fire incedents, including a couple that cost me connecting on game, I went to putting a 10 grain 'priming' charge of real Black powder in ahead of any substitute b.p.. I haven't had a slow fire since.

[mooman76]

Djohns, are you swabbing between shots?

[mooman76]

Sounds like a problem many people have. If you swab with the cleaning jag the jag/patch combo should be a fairly loose fit, otherwise you push the fouling down the bore and it accumulates rather than get pulled out. If it is somewhat loose, the patch goes over the fouling, then bunches up as you pull it back out and pulls the fouling out rather than pushing it into the powder drum area. You can use a thinner patch or turn down the jag on a drill with emery cloth or carefully with a file.

[KCSO]

75 grains or Swiss FFG and a round ball with a pillow ticking patch will shoot clear through a buffalo at 50 yards so it should be enough for any deer you might see. Go for accuracy first and start with about 65-70 grains and work up till the groups suit. Then try different patches and lubes till you can shoot 5 shots into a tight group without cleaning between shots and then you are set to hunt. My best groups run 3-4 inches at 100 yards from a rest this way and have dropped many deer. I see no reason to get beat up shooting 100 grains of powder just to impress someone haw manly you are.

The accurate load is what gets the job done. I have never collected an original powder measure that threw more than 65 grains or so of powder and a lot of them were old 45-?? cases cut off.

[djohns28]

Djohns, are you swabbing between shots?

Yes sir.

I have decided to try a different cap. Also, the 24" barrel probably wont make very good use of a 100 grain charge. I'm actually thinking 3f may do better due to the shorter barrel.

[mooman76]

3f usually burns cleaner too.

[djohns28]

Well, just to update i went to the range today and had one delayed fire, and zero misfires. I swabbed between every shot and used cci #11's. the hang fire was after wet patching the barrel with solvent and 3 dry patches to clean it. I fired 2 caps to dry any residual moisture but it may have still had some causing the delay. I was able to hit the 10" gong at 100 yards 3 times in a row but then it went downhill. Had to mount a scope to be able to get a consistent point of aim. gonna see if its my eyes or the rifle not grouping.

[arcticap]

Well, just to update i went to the range today and had one delayed fire, and zero misfires. I swabbed between every shot and used cci #11's. the hang fire was after wet patching the barrel with solvent and 3 dry patches to clean it. I fired 2 caps to dry any residual moisture but it may have still had some causing the delay. I was able to hit the 10" gong at 100 yards 3 times in a row but then it went downhill. Had to mount a scope to be able to get a consistent point of aim. gonna see if its my eyes or the rifle not grouping.

Nothing is ever perfect.
It has a medium 1 in 48" twist, a 24" barrel which is carbine length for a muzzle loader, and 777 can be a little inconsistent depending on how much it's compressed.
Patched round balls will always shoot a little erratic with that kind of set up.
And 100 yards is an arbitrary distance, 75 yards is perhaps a little more realistic for a 10" gong.
The right sabot & bullet with swabbing in between shots might fare better.
It's good to hear that you're having success.

How much powder are you loading?

[djohns28]

Nothing is ever perfect.
It has a medium 1 in 48" twist, a 24" barrel which is carbine length for a muzzle loader, and 777 can be a little inconsistent depending on how much it's compressed.
Patched round balls will always shoot a little erratic with that kind of set up.
And 100 yards is an arbitrary distance, 75 yards is perhaps a little more realistic for a 10" gong.
The right sabot & bullet with swabbing in between shots might fare better.
It's good to hear that you're having success.

How much powder are you loading?

Loading 80 grains of Pyrodex RS 2F. Getting velocities between 1550 and 1580 FPS. If it was a center fire cartridge I would expect a narrower velocity deviation. Heading to the range this afternoon scope and all so we will see how this goes. Gonna take as much human error out of the equation as i can.

[arcticap]

Loading 80 grains of Pyrodex RS 2F. Getting velocities between 1550 and 1580 FPS. If it was a center fire cartridge I would expect a narrower velocity deviation. Heading to the range this afternoon scope and all so we will see how this goes. Gonna take as much human error out of the equation as i can.

There was a German Roe Deer hunter who used to post about his kills with a Traditions Deer Hunter on the Muzzle Loading Forum a long time ago.
The Roe Deer are quite small, and his set up included a scope and PRB's.
He could shoot really tight groups and always posted photos of his bagged deer.
The only difference from yours was that he loaded with real black powder.
I've always used Pyrodex P and have no complaints.
But even when I belonged to a BP club, the best shooting guns "more often than not" were loaded with black powder.
BP has a different velocity curve that helps many guns shoot PRB's better.
Of course it's also the shooter, but the powder can make a difference.
And I say that even though I'm not a big fan of black powder and its residue.
But I've seen it perform better than anything else.
That's probably not nearly as true if shooting sabots with bullets.

[djohns28]

I'm starting to get really frustrated with thins dang rifle. I ran a 70 grain charge of Pyrodex RS with the round ball and pre lubed patch. Same load I been shooting. First shot at 50 yards was dead on where I was aiming. The next 2 were low about 3 inches. I swapped targets and adjusted the scope up because I pretty well figured it was low to begin with. The next 2 shots were right in elevation, but shifted right 2 inches, holes touching. I had a fail to fire but the cap went off and I realized that I had been pulling to the right. The cross hairs were right on the other holes. I put another target up and tried again. I was got an 8" group for the next 5 shots. By this point the barrel was hot, like could hold it comfortably hot.. I loaded up and left. Got home, pulled the barrel and dunked it in water to clean it all up. I guess I'll try again later.

Yes, the barrel was cooled off before I got it wet to prevent hardening in the steel. I'm about ready to just hang this thing on a wall and be done with it.

[mooman76]

Prelubed patches can be problematic. Lube deteriorates patches over time. No way telling how old the patch is. Find some of the used patches after you shoot. They should still be in good shape. You also may need to swab between shots. Some tubes cause that.

[mooman76]

Prelubed patches can be problematic. Lube deteriorates patches over time. No way telling how old the patch is. Find some of the used patches after you shoot. They should still be in good shape. You also may need to swab between shots. Some tubes cause that. My 32, if I don't swab at least by 3rd shot, accuracy goes south.

[fiberoptik]

Here’s a link to a site about accurate muzzle loading. I highly recommend it.
http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arcticap]

There are different types of guns for different purposes.
Muzzle loading in general is not all about shooting MOA groups unless you buy the best gun for that purpose.
There's different powders and projectiles to try, but muzzle loading is mostly about relaxing and having fun.
It's not the same as an Olympic sport where people shoot 10X's all day long.
If it were that easy then it wouldn't be any fun!

[Hanshi]

My .50 Traditions DeerHunter killed lots of deer with the maximum load. Traditions barrels are strong and accurate, but I did drop back down to 70 grains of 3F for power and accuracy.

[mooman76]

My Deer Hunter is 32 cal. You would think they would have given it another name.