converting .22 TCM to 9x23 winchester

[mozeppa]

the ONLY difference between the 9mm luger case and the 9x23 winchester case is 3 millimeters in length.

i emailed armscor maker of rock islands .22TCM asking about dropping in a barrel for 9x23 win.
all i got was a talking front office head who stated ..."it is impossible to convert the .22tcm to shoot .38 super." (notice she said .38 super.) stating that "her" gunsmith advises against try as the bolt face is not wide enough to accept a .38 super on it or behind the extractor....which indeed it's not (if i was talking about .38 super;.....i'm not tho. i clarified my inquiry by stating NOT .38 SUPER!...9x23 winchester!.......She emailed back ..."my gunsmith said NO!"

they sell the gun with 2 barrels and slide springs ...one each for .22TCM and the other for 9mm Luger
the magazines are the same for both cartridges (they indeed are magazines for .38 super and fit the gun perfectly .(incidentally wilson combat magazines in .40 smith & wesson also fit perfectly inside the .22 TCM ...only the feed lips are profiled differently.)

now then .... i've read that .38 acp...9mm largo...9x23 win.....38 super...38 super comp...and .38 Todd garret brass for the most part will fit inside a .38 super barrel....with the width of the rim being the only disqualifying factor. ruling out the .38 super as it is a semi rimmed case.

however the 9x23 win is nearly exact within 2 thousandths in diameter ...same rim profile ...same cutaway for the extractor groove in the brass ....the only difference is the 3 millimeter longer length.

has anyone else done this?
are there any problems to trying this?

[BigAlofPa.]

I don't know about the conversion. But i have an RIA 38 super. And i love it.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

If math hasn't changed, it seems to me that we're talking about a 4mm difference between 9x19mm and 9x23mm. ?

9x23mm is considerably more powerful than 9x19mm or 9mm Largo. Conventional wisdom is that although a 9x23mm will fit into a 9mm Largo chamber, they should not be fired in a 9mm Largo pistol. The same is said of .38 Super. After that the other cartridges named can get even hotter.

I'm assuming that you already have the two barrels and springs you mentioned, and are proposing to obtain a 9x23mm barrel and utilize it in a slide designed for 9x19mm? I can see how, measurement-wise, this seems possible, but would discourage it on the basis that the 9x19mm slide may not be designed to take recoil and pressures above what it was designed for-- or the frame either for that matter.

Far better to buy a pistol sold in the desired caliber.

[ReloaderFred]

The 9x23 Winchester is indeed a high pressure cartridge, and the brass is much thicker than 9x19 brass. I have two 9x23 Winchester handguns, and it's a powerful round. It would require a stronger recoil spring, among other things, and would probably cause undue stress to a pistol designed for .22 TCM.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[mozeppa]

further though on this ...when i bought the gun you could barely get a third 9mm luger into the magazine but 9mm largo rounds will fill it.

also when shooting it it would jam constantly using 9mm luger.... my thoughts were to use the 9x23 but not load to anymore than 9mm luger speed...just to get better feeding.

and ...it is 4 millimeters longer ...my mistake.

[ReloaderFred]

Starline has 9x21 brass, which might fill your needs. You can use standard 9x19 dies to load it by just backing them out 2mm for the belling and seating dies.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Dan Cash]

Get a different pistol.

[1006]

I believe, it will work. May not be worth the money, but: get a mag, ream a 9mm barrel, use a heavier Main Spring (23#),and an EGW squared off firing pin stop—just round off the edge of the stop off a little bit. Then figure out which recoil spring to use, I am guessing 20-23#, depends how heavy a load you use.

Your trigger pull will be a little heavier, but the setup will significantly delay the recoil pulse. I have a Delta Elite 10mm setup this way with BOTH the main and recoil spring at 23#. The gunsmith that set it up is one on the best. When racking the first round into the chamber, it helps to cock the hammer first-it will be harder to rack.

Interestingly enough, I have not shot the gun in 10mm more than a few hundred times in 20 years. When I had all the work done, I also had a 40S&W barrel fitted, and that is what I shoot, with lighter springs and a standard firing pin stop.

[1006]

Regarding the mags, for your gun, as it is now a 9mm, would probably run better with 9mm mags.

They commonly start out the same as 38super mags, but have a spacer in the back to hold the shorter 9mm rounds forward. Springfield has a mag that uses a built in ramp of sorts on the front lip of the mag instead of the spacer. I like the Mec Gar, or Metalform 9mm mags for reliability and cheapness, but also have some Wilson mags and a Tripp Cobra mag that works well.

Someone above mentioned the strength of your frame and slide possibly being an issue with a conversion to 9x23. I think that is a very good point to consider. It may not be to required hardness for a hotter round. Example: I have only read it in a magazine and have not verified it as fact, but have read that S&W used a different hardness in some of their 44Special than in their 44Mag.

[jreidthompson1]

(incidentally wilson combat magazines in .40 smith & wesson also fit perfectly inside the .22 TCM ...only the feed lips are profiled differently.)


Have you used the above? With 9mm or 22tcm? Did they function properly?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[SOFMatchstaff]

I have done a bit of tinkering with the different cases listed in most of the above posts, and have come to the conclusion that the 23mm cases are all about the same when used in a Supported barrel. The Winchester brass being the best and toughest as it was designed to be used in an un-supported chamber. The Starline 9mm super comp brass is good in most applications , but not up to the Winchesters wall strength. 38 Super rims might cause an issue in the TCM breach face, but the Super comp, Largo, ect all worked well in my Colt supported bbl test gun. The 9x23 Win factory ammo gave a consistent 1485fps out of a 5.5" bbl. I load to a slower velocity for most plinking. I think you would be wise to do the 38 Super chambering an load to 1300 fps level in the std bbl ramp configuration, using Super Comp brass and not temp the pressure gods.... i started the 23mm quest for the MP34 9mm Styer ,, ammo that would interchange with the pistol, it all worked, Win factory 125s from the smg is Really speedy and no pressure issues. I have to make special runs for the 1912 Styer Hahn and the 1930s Colt Super but they dont see that much range time. Hmmm, Babbled enough....

[mozeppa]

Have you used the above? With 9mm or 22tcm? Did they function properly?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

actually when running the .22TCM they worked perfectly.

[jreidthompson1]

Thank you

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[1006]

I wonder if the gun normally comes with a TCM mag, and a 9mm mag, but yours ended up with two TCM mags.

[jreidthompson1]

The gun comes with a magazine that is used for both 9mm and 23tcm. I think it's basically a 38 super mag.

https://armscor.com/parts-accessories/magazines/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200624/2da1a28b0eb282f16c87e6747bdc0565.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[mozeppa]

The gun comes with a magazine that is used for both 9mm and 23tcm. I think it's basically a 38 super mag.

https://armscor.com/parts-accessories/magazines/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200624/2da1a28b0eb282f16c87e6747bdc0565.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

this is correct^

[1006]

It will likely run better on a 9mm mag that has the spacer in the back.

[Sailormilan2]

I have a couple of 1911s that I have set up to run different calibers on. The 1911s are 45acp, and by changing the slide I can go from 9mm up to 10mm. So, 9mm, 38 Super, 9x23, and 10mm. These are standard style, unramped frames.
I use only 38 Super mags for 9mm, 38 Super, and 9x23, and they work just fine. Just as an experiment I tried feeding 9mm and 38 Super out of a 10mm mag, and they worked fine. 10mm will not work out of a 38 Super mag.
So, for your conversion, more than likely what you will need is a barrel, higher power recoil spring, flat bottom firing pin stop, and possibly a stronger main spring. A 38 Super mag would also likely be needed.

[digitcontrol]

the ONLY difference between the 9mm luger case and the 9x23 winchester case is 3 millimeters in length.

i emailed armscor maker of rock islands .22TCM asking about dropping in a barrel for 9x23 win.
all i got was a talking front office head who stated ..."it is impossible to convert the .22tcm to shoot .38 super." (notice she said .38 super.) stating that "her" gunsmith advises against try as the bolt face is not wide enough to accept a .38 super on it or behind the extractor....which indeed it's not (if i was talking about .38 super;.....i'm not tho. i clarified my inquiry by stating NOT .38 SUPER!...9x23 winchester!.......She emailed back ..."my gunsmith said NO!"

they sell the gun with 2 barrels and slide springs ...one each for .22TCM and the other for 9mm Luger
the magazines are the same for both cartridges (they indeed are magazines for .38 super and fit the gun perfectly .(incidentally wilson combat magazines in .40 smith & wesson also fit perfectly inside the .22 TCM ...only the feed lips are profiled differently.)

now then .... i've read that .38 acp...9mm largo...9x23 win.....38 super...38 super comp...and .38 Todd garret brass for the most part will fit inside a .38 super barrel....with the width of the rim being the only disqualifying factor. ruling out the .38 super as it is a semi rimmed case.

however the 9x23 win is nearly exact within 2 thousandths in diameter ...same rim profile ...same cutaway for the extractor groove in the brass ....the only difference is the 3 millimeter longer length.

has anyone else done this?
are there any problems to trying this?

Used a Ed Brown 38 Super Comp barrel with para clark ramp which matched the factory Armscor ramped barrel. Starline 38 super comp brass & 9x23win seem to fit. I have shot a few rounds of super comp but have yet to load any 9x23win as I have no brass (except a sample piece from a friend, which chambers & appears to head space the same). Currently using the 9mm recoil spring & no change to extractor.

[oldsalt444]

I'm guessing the reason the Armscor gunsmith said no is because the 9x23 Win is designed to operate at 55,000 psi. That's way up there with high power rifles. The 9mm Luger operates at 36,000 psi, and the 22 TCM is loaded to 40,000 psi. So a 9x23 Win conversion is asking for trouble IMHO. You could probably go with 9mm Largo which is also a 9x23 and operates at pressures comparable to 9mm Luger. There's no SAAMI spec for it, but it's around 33,000 psi. The question is - why? It's a moot point since the 9mm Luger will give you the same performance and Largo brass is more expensive. On the other hand, 9mm Luger brass is plentiful and very cheap.

[0verkill]

Old thread, but I just came across it.

Option 1, buy a 9x23 barrel and a 22lb recoil spring. Install. Enjoy.
Option 2, buy a spare 9x19 barrel, 9x23 reamer and recoil spring. Ream, install, enjoy.

If a 38 Super barrel is loose enough for 9x23, I wouldn't trust it with 38 Super.

[ReloaderFred]

The .38 Super is a straight case, and the 9x23 Winchester is a tapered case. The 9x23 will fit in almost all .38 Super chambers, at least in my experience.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[RJM52]

Yes it will work...and my guess would be that since RIA makes guns in .38 Super the breechface cut and dimensions are the same...they just rollmark different calibers on the slide. Bet you will find that .38 Super runs also.

Have converted several Colts in .38 Super to 9mm and a couple of 9mms have had .38 Super barrels added...with zero issues. Kimber cuts the breechface of their 10mm/.40 slides the same as their 9mm/.38 Super slides. With one slide I can run 10mm, .40 S&W .357 SIG, 9x19, 9x23 Winchester, 9mm Largo, .38 Super (and all the variations) and 7.62x25 if I could find one of the conversion barrels.

I do not however understand why you can only get three rounds of 9mm into your original RIA magazines... Regardless of whether it is a .38 Super, .22 TCM or 9mm all should fit into a .38 Super magazine.

I say go for it...Bob

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/four-caliber-stii.777762/