Large-bore centerfire small game

[vincecyr]

What boolits(and what velocities) tend to be favored for use on bunnies and similar sized fare. I'm just curious, especially in the larger calibers.

[megasupermagnum]

Very accurate, and in the head is ideal. A round nose, or even a spitzer if you have it, at a very low velocity will produce the least amount of damage.

[Springfield]

Seems liike overkill to use large bore on bunnies.

[White Oak]

My 356win will shoot one hole groups at 25 yards with a RCBS 35-200FN using a lite load of Titegroup at 700fps. My 15 year old son has honestly shot a 15 shot string that were all touching. It would be super fun and effective on small game.

[brewer12345]

I've shot rabbits out of a 357 lever using 38 special at standard pressure. At 800 FPS or so the RNFP boolit doesn't expand and it drills a 36 cal hole through the bunny. A bigger slug would do the same, just make sure your load is accurate and low velocity.

[cp1969]

Seems liike overkill to use large bore on bunnies.

It does to me, too. That's what .22's are for. If you use a SWC bullet, it won't damage the meat too much but the noise is too much.

[richhodg66]

What do you define as a big bore? Something like the Lee soup can .30 caliber works great. Even a .35 could duplicate a mid range .38 Special wad cutter pretty easily.

For those who think it's over kill, such loads are a lot less destructive than a .17 HMR or .22 WMR. Try it sometime.

A .30-30 downloads real easy and is a great small game round.

[Outpost75]

I use .30-30 down-loaded to .32-20 equivalent with 4 grains of Bullseye and 100-grain plain-based .32 revolver slug.

[vincecyr]

What do you define as a big bore?
Sorry. Should have specified. Say .36 cal and up, but especially interested in .44 and .45.

[missionary5155]

Round ball is a favorite for us We use range scrap sized to about .002 over groove. Push into a case so the "flat" sized part is in the case. Case should be sized just enough to have resistance. Then a little lube on the exposed nose.
5 grains of Unique. More or less to noise level and velocity. Cheap and fun !
Mike in LLama Land

[Kylongrifle32]

I have use similar loads in a Ruger 44 Blackhawk for frog and turtle hunting. Take a Speers .440 caliber black powder round ball and run it thru a Lee .430 sizer die. This swages the bullet down giving it a little bearing surface in the sides and crushes a flat base on the ball. Load in a 44 spl case with 4.5 grains of Unique. If your standing in the shade and shoot into the sunlight just right you can see the bullet travel thru the air.

[Thumbcocker]

.433 round ball rolled in liquid alox seated very deep in the case over 3-5 grains of fast powder (red dot, bullseye, 700x etc.). You will have to raise the rear sight way up on a handgun but they can be very accurate.

[GhostHawk]

.30-30, or 7.62x39 or .300BO with 4-6 grains of Red Dot and a smaller cast bullet like the Lee .314 90 gr Truncated cone sized down to .311 shoots great in every .30 I've tried it in. You really don't need MORE than that. So the only reason to go bigger is for personal protection vs deadly game.

And IMO hard to beat shotgun for that game. And a few 7.5's- 6's will pop bunnies, squirrels just fine.

[Doughty]

You mean like this? .45 Colt, velocity just shy of 1000fps.

263816

[vincecyr]

You mean like this? .45 Colt, velocity just shy of 1000fps.

263816
Boolit?

[Doughty]

Is there something besides boolits? It's a 280 grain boolit from a mold I made. Similar, sort of, to a LBT WLN.

[Doughty]

The photo is a little "miss" leading. It might appear that at the shot, the hare was broadside to me and that I aimed center mass and hit a little high. It was actually sitting looking at me, pointing slightly to my right. I aimed for it's right eye and "miss"ed slightly to my left, hitting it in the back and killing it just as if I had hit the head. No more than a fork full of meat lost.

[NoZombies]

My best results (least meat damage) use light bullets and low velocities. RB's work well. light HBWC's in .38 spl works great.

But really I mostly use the .22 ladybug or .32 long at this point for almost all of my small game hunting.

[Texas by God]

I've killed many a squirrel and cottontail with round balls in 30-30, .44 mag, and .45 ACP revolver. .310", .433", and .454" rb's with a coat of LLA over a pinch of Bullseye. Not overkill- just right kill. I'm currently looking for .380" and .413" RBs to work up .41 mag and .38-55 fun.

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[Larry Gibson]

Sorry. Should have specified. Say .36 cal and up, but especially interested in .44 and .45.

Handguns, rifle or both?

[vincecyr]

Handguns, rifle or both?

Handgun, primarily, but rifle is still interesting.

[Duckiller]

Have shot cottontail with factory load in a 257 Roberts. be sure to hit them in the head. removed head very nicely. A body shot would have made bunny disappear. My experince was a long time ago when I was deer hunting. If I were to do it now I would use a standard velocity 22LR. Not sure why anyone would use a big bore. a down loaded 38 Special being the exception.

[PositiveCaster]

The OP wants information on .36 caliber and up cartridges. Rifle/pistol doesn’t matter, velocity and bullet shape do. I have used my .45 LC BH with the 255 Lee RNFP at ~800 fps on grouse and hare. Punched a hole through the hare with minimal damage - unless I hit the shoulder.



.

[Cary Gunn]

Howdy Duckiller,

Your admonition to stick to head-shots on cottontails is generally good advice, but I once watched a buddy place a 130-grain jacketed spitzer through the ribs of a 20-yard cottontail with the .270 Win. he was carrying on a Wyoming pronghorn/mule deer jaunt. After the shot, a big cloud of dust erupted behind the rabbit.

But the bunny initially seemed oblivious to the commotion. He sat unmoving for several long moments as we looked on with awe. Then he took a couple of short, unhurried hops -- and fell over dead.

Rather than disintegrating the little fellow, the speedy, sharply-pointed .270 big-game bullet, with velocity probably close to 3,000 fps, just punched an "ice-pick" hole though his air bags.

That evening, we simmered his virtually undamaged carcass for about 20 minutes in a pot of spicey tomato sauce and enjoyed him along with our campfire spaghetti.

The morale of the story is, I guess, that broadside passage through a tender, two-pound rabbit won't even begin to cause expansion of a tough, jacketed spitzer big-game bullet.

That said, though, I'll still advocate head-shots on small game.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

[country gent]

I spent the better part of a summer hunting wood chucks with a 338 win mag ( getting ready for a hunt that fall) Used the same load I had worked up for the hunt. Small game with big bores isnt a problem and for efficiency and comfort they can be loaded down even. Less powder less recoil and less report.

[Wolfer]

I have killed many head of grouse, rabbits and squirrels with a 45 colt revolver. Load is the lee 452-255RF pushed to just under 1000 fps.
This boolit cuts a clean 45 cal hole whether it be small game or large. Grouse shot through the breast can be sliced right across the hole. No bloodshot meat whatsoever.

I prefer the same type boolit made by NOE with a cup HP for deer. Penetration is still good and I tend to get a little better blood trail.
The lee is the most accurate boolit I shot in my gun.

[MT Chambers]

For the 45/70 I'd recommend the Collar Button mold and some trail boss powder.

[Larry Gibson]

What boolits(and what velocities) tend to be favored for use on bunnies and similar sized fare. I'm just curious, especially in the larger calibers.......Sorry. Should have specified. Say .36 cal and up, but especially interested in .44 and .45...Handgun, primarily, but rifle is still interesting.....

With handguns or rifles I prefer a light weight for caliber cast bullet of WC, SWC or TC for head shots on small edible game such as rabbits and squirrels, etc.

For birds such as grouse, ptarmigan, turkeys, chucker, huns, etc. I prefer a cast RN bullet as it slips through the body w/o much or very little meat damage. Velocity for both uses runs 750 - 900 fps +/- with both handgun and rifle.

[brewer12345]

I have killed many head of grouse, rabbits and squirrels with a 45 colt revolver. Load is the lee 452-255RF pushed to just under 1000 fps.
This boolit cuts a clean 45 cal hole whether it be small game or large. Grouse shot through the breast can be sliced right across the hole. No bloodshot meat whatsoever.

I prefer the same type boolit made by NOE with a cup HP for deer. Penetration is still good and I tend to get a little better blood trail.
The lee is the most accurate boolit I shot in my gun.

I'd guess 45 ACP at similar velocities or less would do well, too.

[skeettx]

S&W Model 25-2, 45 ACP, 200 grain Semi-wadcutter (Lyman 452460), 3.7 grains of Bullseye.

Why, because they work and that is also what I load for Bullseye Matches.

Mike

[KCSO]

I have used gallery loads in the 45-70 for years to hunt small game. Use head shots only. For other calibers use the gallery load section in Waters PET LOADS. All will work fine for small game and are quiet enough for deer camp.

[warren5421]

For .45 I like 18-20 gr FFFg by volume with filler behind 200 gr by weight RNFP. Works great on Tree Rats, Rabbits, Coons, Opossum, and Coyote within 25'-50'. Very little meat damage, just a big hole that stops small game running away.

[carolina sorillo]

I have just recently been doing this. Although I'm not using a large caliber but it is a large case. I'm shooting Lee's 135gr .277" from a Savage model 111 .270win. over a light charge of Trail Boss. I got a decent group, minute of squirrel head, at 1075fps. My alloy is 3:1 salvaged plumbing lead:WW and I lube with LLA. It's really nice to be able to shoot the .270 w/o ear protection. I call it my .27 long rifle load.

I also used to have a .454" rb .45 Colt load that I used to dispatch backyard pests. From the 24" Marlin CB barrel it sounded like someone spitting out tobacco juice. But @25yds 5 shots left a ragged hole. The Marlin's have an insane 1:38" twist which actually works out great for round balls.


CS

[smithnframe]

I once shot a ring neck pheasant with a 45/70 405 grain cast bullet on top of 48 grains of 3031.......it did the trick!

[veeman]

I shot a crow once with a 45/70. went "poof", a few feathers floated down. Best case of spontaneous combustion I ever did see.

[6pt-sika]

I wrote an article for “The Fouling Shot” about fifteen years ago about this type thing for squirrels . I used all Marlin lever’s one chambered first 32 Long Colt , several for 32-20 , a couple for 25-20 , one for 218 Bee and last but not least one in 357 MAG . All were downloaded to around 1000 FPS well that is except the 32 Long Colt 2 grains of Unique only pushed the 90 grain bullet at 900-950 FPS . Killed a squirrel or two with each rifle all with iron sights I might add and all were shot at less then thirty yards . Cast bullets in all .

[trapper9260]

I have came up with from some place on here about use of 00buckshot size to .310 and use alox water down and use for 30 cals. I use it for 30-06 ,308 win,30-30 .I do not have the card I have for the data. But it works good. also use the 32 cals boolits in the 30 cals.

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s a nuisance rabbit that was robbing my garden. I shot it at 136 yards with a Lyman devastator Hollow point. It was shot out of my Ruger 77/44 Around 1750 FPS with a 100% ac COWW alloy. Believe it or not I still had a lot of meat for the stew pot with the front and rear legs. I would want a solid boolit pushed with trail boss Powder loaded at the absolute minimum velocity if I were trying to save meat. I put the two halves closer for a picture. They were about 15 to 20 feet from each other.

https://i.imgur.com/kQY8UqQ.jpg

[onelight]

I have used .36 .44 and .45 wit black powder mainly revolvers but also single shot in .36 , and .44 and .45 in cartridges for squirrel and rabbit round balls in the BP guns and 429421 in .44 and a 250 swc in 45 colt loaded to 700 to 750 FPS , almost all head shots and they way I shoot I have to be close :p
With the big handguns the critter had to be on the ground or low enough on a big tree to have a back stop. My favorite kind of hunting could pack my stuff on the motorcycle and head out for a few hours or a day or two with next to no expense and time in the woods . Makes me want to go just reading and talking about it.

[CastingFool]

I've shot woodchucks at 65 yds with my Henry BBS chambered for 45 colt, using the lee 452-200 rf

[robg]

a friend uses his 458 win mag on rabbits to get tuned up for African hunting trips .

[Larry Gibson]

Handgun, primarily, but rifle is still interesting.


Handgun, primarily, but rifle is still interesting.

Thinking about it I recalled many years ago I would still hunt snowshoe hares with my 44 magnum and 45 AR revolvers. I cast up some nifty WCs by put old Lyman non-crimp GC in a forward drive band of the mould cavity [429421 and 454424]. They were loaded backwards if I left the GC on but mostly the GC flicked off easily so I loaded them base first. I used small charges of Bullseye to get 800 fps +/- which proved very deadly on the rabbit/hares w/o damaging too much meat. Mostly I used head shots which were very effective.

I also did the same with the 38/357 and 41 magnum cartridges. I use the old Hornady thin tin lid from their GC tins with the GCs in them sitting on the top edge of the Lyman furnace to keep them hot.
Then tweezers are used to insert the hot GC into the very hot mould. Not as hard as it sounds. Certainly not for mass production but it doesn't take much time to cast a hundred or so which was plenty for one season of rabbit/hare hunting.

265361

Here's some moulds with the GC in them.

[Sam]

I regularly shoot small game with my 35 Whelan.
148 DEWC and 7 gr Unique with a fluff of Dacron
Not excessive at all. Certainly more effective than a 22 but hardly a shredder

[brewer12345]

I bought a lyman single shot percussion pistol from a member here. I am going to try to get an accurate 50 cal round ball load with a modest powder charge and try it on small game and/or blue grouse.

[45 hunter]

brewer12345, Let us know what you come up with! That could be a lot of fun!

[JWFilips]

My 29.5" barrel GEW 8 MM shoots the NOE 326-130 gr FN great with 3 grain of Red Dot It is a wieldy weapon but works great to 50 yards on small critters

[M-Tecs]

I've shot a lot of rabbits with 357 Mag and 45 Colt revolver. They work well be ricochets tend to be an issue with the larger slugs.

[Texas by God]

I bought a lyman single shot percussion pistol from a member here. I am going to try to get an accurate 50 cal round ball load with a modest powder charge and try it on small game and/or blue grouse.
I have done just that. It pokes a 1/2” hole right through squirrels and cottontails and that works.

[fcvan]

45 Colt rifle, HR 20" Classic Carbine single shot, .454 pure lead RB over 3 gr of Bullseye, 900 fps at muzzle. Deadly accurate at 100 yards. I shot a grading stake at 100 and it just exploded and splintered. Quiet like a 22 lr, probably one of my most fun plinking loads. The RB through my 4 5/8" OM Vaquero also shoots quite well. I tumble lubed the RBs with liquid alox, next loads will be ASBBPCd, and the RBs thrown in the tumbler to round out the sprue cuts, maybe roll them between steel plates.

[Tripplebeards]

I load A .452 lee 255 grain boolit with 5.2 grains of trailboss for my Ruger new vaquero. I can hit shotgun casings every shot at 25 yards with it free handed. It kicks similar to a 22wrm or a hair more.

[jaysouth]

Not to be a wet blanket, but check your state's game laws before using centerfire cartridges to hunt small game. Illegal in TN and LA.

[KCSO]

Many years ago if you could own one gun you were about average and that one gun had to do it all. Hence adapters and small game loads for many rifles. One of my favorites is a round ball over a dab of powder in the 30-30 or the 30-40. Accurate to 20 yards and almost silent. Many a rabbit or squirrel has met its maker from one of these.

[justashooter]

What boolits(and what velocities) tend to be favored for use on bunnies and similar sized fare. I'm just curious, especially in the larger calibers.

i used 150 LRN castings in a remington 600 at about 900 fps with unique that printed close to POA at 25 yards when sighted for 225 yards for 165 grain spitzer at 2600 fps with scope about 1.5" above bore. getting a co-printing between full velocity and reduced load can be challenging.

[Buckeyeguy]

I have shot quite a few squirrels withA Ruger Blackhawk with 38 special cases loaded with dewc loads at 800 FPS, nice round holes with very little meat damaged if your shot was placed well.

[Shawlerbrook]

I’ll go the other direction. I once shot a coyote with a small 380 auto.

[HawgBonz]

Very interesting thread here. I'm just gettin into casting, been reloading for years, tho'. Lookin forward to experimenting with these light loads in a "non suppressed" way. 'Bout the closest I've come to doing this is I shot a squirrel with a 38 snubby I had with me one time out deer hunting. Clean hole, dead snack.
Also shot a squirrel with a 44 C&B revolver. Same thing. Plug-n-thud. Hardly any meat ruined.
What's old is new-ish again re: old western movies when they said stuff like they'd "need their rifle for squirrels-n-such". d;^)

[curiousgeorge]

Jaysouth makes a good point. For about 4 or 5 yrs Kentucky allowed centerfire for small game hunting. I took about a quart jar of cracked mouth 38 special casings and trimmed them back to 38 s&w length. Loaded a 358480 135 gr swc over 2.5 grs bullseye and shot the out of my H&R 357 max rifle. The best squirrel and rabbit getter I ever used. Was at local country store bragging to the local game warden (and anyone else I cold get to listen) abouthow accurate and deadly a combo it was and the squirrels I had shot the Saturday before. When I finished he looked up at me and asked "Didn't you know they changed the law back to rimfire only this year?".
Wrote me a warning citation. Too many people listening to not do anything. I was EMBARRASSED.

[44magLeo]

When I first got into casting and fooling with loads I used the Lyman 429421 I had.
I cast that boolit in pure lead and loads so light I could watch the boolit in flight.
After a few years of fooling around I settled on two loads. The light load was that boolit over 8.5 grs of Unique for somewhere around 900-1000 fps out of the 7.5 " SBH. A bit more out of the Marlin 1894.
Heavy load was the same boolit over 17.5 grs of 2400. Somewhere around 1250 fps in the SBH. A bit more in the Marlin.
For bunnie busting the light load worked well for head shots out to around 75 yards. No wasted meat that way. The marlin wasn't quite as accurate, had to limit that to about 50 yards.
Leo

[Jedman]

curiousgeorge, I am in OH and we don’t have any restrictions on rifle calibers for squirrel that I know of.
Seems strange it took forever to get to use straight walled centerfire cartridges for deer hunting here but for squirrel hunting where you are generally aiming above ground level that it’s legal to use any caliber you want.

Jedman

[richhodg66]

Jaysouth makes a good point. For about 4 or 5 yrs Kentucky allowed centerfire for small game hunting. I took about a quart jar of cracked mouth 38 special casings and trimmed them back to 38 s&w length. Loaded a 358480 135 gr swc over 2.5 grs bullseye and shot the out of my H&R 357 max rifle. The best squirrel and rabbit getter I ever used. Was at local country store bragging to the local game warden (and anyone else I cold get to listen) abouthow accurate and deadly a combo it was and the squirrels I had shot the Saturday before. When I finished he looked up at me and asked "Didn't you know they changed the law back to rimfire only this year?".
Wrote me a warning citation. Too many people listening to not do anything. I was EMBARRASSED.

If laws are so silly and convoluted that a guy can break it through simple ignorance, then there's a problem. In reality, your light .38 loads would be much safer than say a .22 WMR which would have been legal (I have to assume the reason for the law is to not have bullets traveling a long way past what the target was and hitting unintended things). Kansas deer hunting rules were this way for a long time, seemed like the craziest laws and worse, they changed significantly almost every year. Thankfully, they have become more straightforward the past few years.

Interesting idea about using split mouth brass that way, I might have to try that sometime.

[curiousgeorge]

richhodg66
The game wardens pushed to have the law changed back to rimfire and shotgun only for small game. My game warden friend who wrote me the warning explained that the early season deer poaching went through the roof.

"No officer, I'm not looking for deer, I'm squirrel hunting" while he stands there holding his .30-06 with 180 gr factory loads in it. It only takes a small group to ruin it for everyone.

As far as trimming the brass back to s&w length, a 358477 over 1.5 grs bullseye makes a really quiet and deadly backyard load.

[Larry Gibson]

Oregon tried something similar some years back making it illegal to be in possession of a CF rifle during antelope, deer and elk seasons w/o a valid tag for that season. They found it violated the Oregon and US Constitutions as they also found prohibiting carrying a concealed weapon with a permit during archery season was. Driving through on the highway with a CF rifle was then illegal as was being in a camp ground or even going to a grocery store if in a big game unit. Also no exception was for ranchers, farmers or military on duty.

The Oregon State Police also used that same lame excuse. Reality was [Having been one and having enforced Oregon game laws/regulations] was they just want an easier and lazy way to write citations. Was over turned when a hunter who had shot a deer and tagged it was cited as he no longer had a valid tag and was in the unit. As they can regulate hunting methods they changed it so it is still illegal to hunt with a CF rifle during such seasons but the onus is then they must prove you were "hunting" and not merely having said firearm in possession. And a CWP holder can carry during archery season while archery hunting.

And I've shot lots of jack rabbits rabbits and coyotes in eastern Oregon after shooting and tagging a deer with a .308W or 30-06 with the ammo I was hunting deer with, usually 165 or 180 gr bullets.

[sparky45]

I'll have a double Larry, and easy on the Lemon slice.[smilie=w:

[Landy88]

Silly and onerous laws, aside; the west has a long tradition of loading and carrying "grouse loads" for our deer or big game rifles for both the eponymous grouse and other small game. While I haven't tried the .40+ calibers of prime interest to the op, I have always done so since beginning to handload, and have found the up to .35s to be great and easy to load for small game guns. The 9.3s, 375s, and on up flaws are using a lot of lead or having bullets so stubby as to be a challenge to accuracy.

[joeblack357]

[QUOTE=GhostHawk;4926680].30-30, or 7.62x39 or .300BO with 4-6 grains of Red Dot and a smaller cast bullet like the Lee .314 90 gr Truncated cone sized down to .311 shoots great in every .30 I've tried it in. You really don't need MORE than that. So the only reason to go bigger is for personal protection vs deadly game.

Yap Red Dot is the perfect powder for SG loads up to 13 grain in everey medium cal load 7mm up. Trail boss is new but can not outperform RD!I use 5 to 7 gr in 308 for Subsonic loads with a 200 gr LEE RN.

[Texas by God]

Both of these will kill edible small game with minimal meat damage. 44-40 /.433" and 38-55/.380" round balls with LLA. Lee .5cc scoop(4.7grs) Bullseye in both cartridges. They sound like a .22 rifle.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200824/fc14c7645acd1b6367f659c14c9fc68d.jpg

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