45 ACP Linotype

[bigcountry]

Does anyone shoot linotype for 45 ACP? Would lyman #2 be better? I do have a lot of linotype.

[Petrol & Powder]

Linotype is VERY hard and far harder than is needed for 45 ACP.

Actually, Lyman #2 would be better but even that alloy is harder than needed for 45 ACP.

[Papercidal]

I mix Lino 1:1 with scrap lead for approximately hardball alloy. I pay more for scrap than I did for my stash of Lino but it’s kind of a waste to send that much tin and antimony down range when not needed (especially for a low velocity round like .45)

[JM7.7x58]

I’m sure that you can find someone who will trade you two for one, 2 range scrap or 2 pure for 1 Lino. You can then mix up something more appropriate for your 45acp. Three parts scrap to one part Lino would be better in a 45acp.

I run 20:1 (sailboat keel/pewter) or the equivalent of air cooled wheel weights with 2% tin in my 45acp.

JM

[Drm50]

Is sailboat keel a uniform alloy? I’m shooting 50:50 WW:Pb and 20:1 this mix to Sn. This is plenty hard and I use it in 41,44 & 45 cal target loads. I’m in limbo over new mold bought through forum the HB 44cal. thinking I should go softer for it? Looking at 750-850 fps.

[USSR]

Is sailboat keel a uniform alloy?

Short answer: No. It could be darn near anything that happened to be available at the time.

Don

[dannyd]

I use 12 bn in a 1911 works great

[Drm50]

Thanks, that’s what I was thinking. The same as wheel weights for tractors, whatever melts. I don’t have a problem with what I consider pure lead, 99% type stuff. It’s easy to come by. WWs are hard to come by.

[Martin Luber]

I had worked with Lino a long time ago and funny thing was while very hard, it leaded like mad.

Not sure if it began undersize and leaded b/c of that or maybe flamespray put lead ahead of the bullet, or it just had a lube failure . It was hard to size for sure.

Since softer alloys like whl weights were cheap and workedvwell, l never looked back at it.
Thoughts?

[Winger Ed.]

Is sailboat keel a uniform alloy? Looking at 750-850 fps.

For those speeds, or even a little more, I use the least amount of 'goodies' in the pure Lead as what will cast well.

If there has ever been a problem doing that- I ain't smart enough to realize it.

[Petrol & Powder]

I haven't tested my alloy but the alloy calculator provided on this forum (a great tool BTW) shows a BHn of roughly 10.
That is PLENTY hard for 45 ACP and I'm confident I could drop that down a bit more without difficulty. I use that same alloy in 38 Special and it's fine.

[Dale53]

My "standard" alloy is WW's+2% tin. It casts well and works great in all of my revolvers except the hot magnums where I have been known to use a bit harder alloy. I had shot a bit over 100,000 rounds of .45 ACP home cast bullets in both 1911'a and my .45 revolvers. It works beautifully!

FWIW
Dale53

[JM7.7x58]

This is low pressure 45acp we are talking about.

I ain’t gonna buy top dollar Rotometal “Lab certified” pure to mix with my pewter to make pristine 20:1.

This sail boat keel lead pencil scratch tests around 7bhn. That is close enough to pure for my 20:1 mix. We all don’t have access to the same sources. I live on the coast where there’s lots of fishing lead, and lots of sail boat keels. You use what you got. If my neighbor was a plumber or a roofer I might have better access to “pure”. I don’t belong to a range, so no berm to mine.

Pewter is cheap (95% tin), and I like thrift stores. I teach welding and am always burning up work shirts. The thrift stores keep me stocked up with work shirts and pewter.

My “20:1” is the cheapest alloy I can put my hands on, less than a dollar a pound. I run it in 45acp, 38 special, and plain base 30 and 31 cal rifle loads. I have great results with it.

Antimony lead is expensive to get shipped. Wheel weights were banned in Washington over a decade ago. I save my Linotype and wheel weight lead for mixing alloys for high pressure work. 40s&w and metford rifled guns get “the good stuff”!

JM

[Burnt Fingers]

It's a complete waste of a valuable resource.

You can mix that linotype 1:4 with pure lead and have a wonderful alloy for 45 ACP.

I actually mix lino and pure at a 1:5, add .08 of tin and come up with what I think is a perfect alloy for most anything.

It gives 1.97% each of Sn and Sb and 96.1% Pb. Hardness is right at 11 BHN.

[bigcountry]

It's a complete waste of a valuable resource.

You can mix that linotype 1:4 with pure lead and have a wonderful alloy for 45 ACP.

I actually mix lino and pure at a 1:5, add .08 of tin and come up with what I think is a perfect alloy for most anything.

It gives 1.97% each of Sn and Sb and 96.1% Pb. Hardness is right at 11 BHN.

Thanks

[OS OK]

Range scrap will be perfect...we ain't making any pressure here boys.

[Drm50]

My alloy of 50:50 lead : wheel weights and 20:1 mix to tin has been fine for all my revolvers. Most are Wad Cutter target loads. All others are under 1000fps anyway. My new mold is a 44 hollow base WC. I’ve only poured a few just to try out the mold. I hate to pour a bunch without having idea where to start. I have unlimited lead and tin, WWs are running out and hard to get. These will be target loads for S&W 24s and possibly 29s. 750-850fps, don’t have a load yet either.

[Ozark mike]

Low power cartridges like most pistols will never need to worry about harder alloys untill you get north of 44mag. Air cooled wheelweights are more than enough.

[Drm50]

I’m actually not worried about harder alloy. With the new HBWC mold I may need to cut back to softer alloy. My mix is fine for the button nose WCs I shoot in 38, 44 and 45 at like velocities.

[bangerjim]

I agree. You need relative soft alloy for 45's - 10 or there about is all you need. Pure lino would be a complete waste to use straight in low velocity cals like that. Mix it with pure or sell it on here! It's worth a few $$/#

You can PC the 10 alloy and get even better performance with no leading or smoke from grease lubes.

I shoot 10-12 in everything from 30 to 45 caliber and PC it. I make my alloy from pure and lino or a high Sb alloy I have and add 2% Sn.

Fresh Linotype alloy consisted of 4% tin, 12% antimony and 84% lead. The old typesetters used to use it until the Sn was almost depleted and refresh it. But you should have a decent amount of Sb and Sn in there to dilute for you casting needs.

[243winxb]

A soft alloy lets the bullet nose be deformed on chambering.. Some even stuck/jammed on the feed ramp.
I tested it after reading that 50/50 pure/ww work fine. They do not.

Ww & 1 1/2 lbs lino in a 10 pound pot work much better.

I have also tested 100% Rotometals linotype 45 acp 200 gr bb bullets . No leading & very easy cleaning.

[Burnt Fingers]

A soft alloy lets the bullet nose be deformed on chambering.. Some even stuck/jammed on the feed ramp.
I tested it after reading that 50/50 pure/ww work fine. They do not.

Ww & 1 1/2 lbs lino in a 10 pound pot work much better.

I have also tested 100% Rotometals linotype 45 acp 200 gr bb bullets . No leading & very easy cleaning.


It must be your firearm. I've shot a lot of 50/50 wheelweight/pure in over two dozen 1911 pistols in 45 ACP, 10 mm and 9mm. I've shot the same alloy in numerous other pistols without a problem.

[USSR]

No problem using 50/50 and even softer alloys in mine. I shoot a lot of hollowpoints, so the alloy must not be too hard.

Don

[MT Gianni]

One problem with lino is that it might be too hard to fully obdurate, leaving lead particles as the bullet tries to fill the grooves. Another case where softer is better. If you have a lot of linotype you probably should get some more guns that would be better shot with a 50-50 lead lino mix.

[USSR]

I would create an alloy using 3/1 (lead/lino). This alloy would be 96 Pb/3 Sb/1 Sn. Add a little tin to bring it up to over 2% and you have a great alloy.

Don

[Lloyd Smale]

when I shoot competively I used straight lino for 45acp and 38 special bullets for shoots. Why? Well some will say its a waste but it just shot the best possible groups. At the time it was easy to find and I got it cheap so I didn't worry about cost. Now I don't shoot competively and lino is harder to find and expensive so I don't waste it on low pressure rounds. But 9 times out of 10 the harder the alloy the smaller the group in any GOOD gun.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Knew a guy who cast commercially and bought many thousands of .45 boolits from him. He would bring our orders to matches and we would settle up and take our boolits off the back of his pick up. Never thought about what alloy he used but never got any leading either. Boolits were plenty accurate too. The low pressure and muzzle velocity make the 45 acp a really easy gun to use cast in.

[smithnframe]

I use pure linotype in a lot of my pistols and revolvers!

[Lloyd Smale]

even pure linotype can vary a lot in composistion. When I shot match I would melt it in 200lb batches to get consistency.

[gwpercle]

45 acp boolits don't need to be that hard .
For 40 years I cast them of clip on and stick on wheel weights , whatever was in the 5 gal. bucket .
After my free wheel weight supply retired from the tire business I had to stretch my supply .
COWW and soft scrap lead, 50-50 , work better ... wish I had started doing this years ago and saved my wheel weights .

Save the Linotype ...it's going the way of the Dodo Bird .... totally extinct soon .
Gary

[Conditor22]

https://i.imgur.com/XJyXxfE.png

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry but I don't agree with the author. A properly sized HARD bullet doesn't need to obturate to seal. If it did then a jacketed bullet sure wouldn't be accurate. Obturating or "bumping up" is only necessary if a gun is out of spec and if it is even bumping up isn't going to make it a tack driver. I also don't believe lube has any ability to stop gas cutting. The lube the barrel period. Reason hard lubes don't work is they stay on the bullet instead of in the barrel. Now hard alloys and gas checks do stop gas cutting. Aint my first rodeo. Ive shot cast bullets for 40 years and shot them in competition for half of that. What ive found is its a very rare instance when a gun shoots soft bullets better then hard or leads more with hard bullets in even a crap gun. In a good gun ill just say ive NEVER seen it happen. Just think about what your asking a bullet to do when it obturates. It deforms from its original shape. A shape a designer spent a lot of time perfecting. It will never deform the exact same way every time so what you end up doing is shooting a mismatched bunch of lead blobs that don't even grab the rifling well. How could anyone think that's going to give accuracy. Also if softer leads help accuracy by bumping up why is it that jacketed bullet which are much harder then ANY lead alloy shoot so well. These are old fairy tails, urban legands. Brought to you from old timers back in the day that shot colts and smiths that were so far out of spec that there lucky they shot 5 inch 25 yard groups. Like your article said those old times thought 12 bhn was hard. Why? Because that's all they had. Lineotype was actually being used and wasn't available. they had mostly pure and some wheelweight (buy even little of that) so there alloys were lead/tin. They didn't have a clue about harder bullets shooting better because they just couldn't make them to test. They were more the mel Gibson casting bullet in a pot and mold over the cook fire. They had probably one well worn gun, maybe if they were wealthy two and if they were wealthy they bought ammo and bullets. Show me someone that says bullets need to bump up to shoot well and ill show you someone that does more reading then shooting.

[243winxb]

sorry but I don't agree with the author. A properly sized HARD bullet doesn't need to obturate to seal. If it did then a jacketed bullet sure wouldn't be accurate. Obturating or "bumping up" is only necessary if a gun is out of spec and if it is even bumping up isn't going to make it a tack driver. I also don't believe lube has any ability to stop gas cutting. The lube the barrel period. Reason hard lubes don't work is they stay on the bullet instead of in the barrel. Now hard alloys and gas checks do stop gas cutting. Aint my first rodeo. Ive shot cast bullets for 40 years and shot them in competition for half of that. What ive found is its a very rare instance when a gun shoots soft bullets better then hard or leads more with hard bullets in even a crap gun. In a good gun ill just say ive NEVER seen it happen. Just think about what your asking a bullet to do when it obturates. It deforms from its original shape. A shape a designer spent a lot of time perfecting. It will never deform the exact same way every time so what you end up doing is shooting a mismatched bunch of lead blobs that don't even grab the rifling well. How could anyone think that's going to give accuracy. Also if softer leads help accuracy by bumping up why is it that jacketed bullet which are much harder then ANY lead alloy shoot so well. These are old fairy tails, urban legands. Brought to you from old timers back in the day that shot colts and smiths that were so far out of spec that there lucky they shot 5 inch 25 yard groups. Like your article said those old times thought 12 bhn was hard. Why? Because that's all they had. Lineotype was actually being used and wasn't available. they had mostly pure and some wheelweight (buy even little of that) so there alloys were lead/tin. They didn't have a clue about harder bullets shooting better because they just couldn't make them to test. They were more the mel Gibson casting bullet in a pot and mold over the cook fire. They had probably one well worn gun, maybe if they were wealthy two and if they were wealthy they bought ammo and bullets. Show me someone that says bullets need to bump up to shoot well and ill show you someone that does more reading then shooting.

Well said. I agree 100%

[tazman]

sorry but I don't agree with the author. A properly sized HARD bullet doesn't need to obturate to seal. If it did then a jacketed bullet sure wouldn't be accurate. Obturating or "bumping up" is only necessary if a gun is out of spec and if it is even bumping up isn't going to make it a tack driver. I also don't believe lube has any ability to stop gas cutting. The lube the barrel period. Reason hard lubes don't work is they stay on the bullet instead of in the barrel. Now hard alloys and gas checks do stop gas cutting. Aint my first rodeo. Ive shot cast bullets for 40 years and shot them in competition for half of that. What ive found is its a very rare instance when a gun shoots soft bullets better then hard or leads more with hard bullets in even a crap gun. In a good gun ill just say ive NEVER seen it happen. Just think about what your asking a bullet to do when it obturates. It deforms from its original shape. A shape a designer spent a lot of time perfecting. It will never deform the exact same way every time so what you end up doing is shooting a mismatched bunch of lead blobs that don't even grab the rifling well. How could anyone think that's going to give accuracy. Also if softer leads help accuracy by bumping up why is it that jacketed bullet which are much harder then ANY lead alloy shoot so well. These are old fairy tails, urban legands. Brought to you from old timers back in the day that shot colts and smiths that were so far out of spec that there lucky they shot 5 inch 25 yard groups. Like your article said those old times thought 12 bhn was hard. Why? Because that's all they had. Lineotype was actually being used and wasn't available. they had mostly pure and some wheelweight (buy even little of that) so there alloys were lead/tin. They didn't have a clue about harder bullets shooting better because they just couldn't make them to test. They were more the mel Gibson casting bullet in a pot and mold over the cook fire. They had probably one well worn gun, maybe if they were wealthy two and if they were wealthy they bought ammo and bullets. Show me someone that says bullets need to bump up to shoot well and ill show you someone that does more reading then shooting.

I agree. I use hardened lead and soft lube(NRA50-50) sized appropriately for my guns. I get good accuracy and no leading.
I have seen softer alloys skid and lose stability where harder alloys grip the rifling and shoot well.