Stevens "Favorite" 1915 type model 17 project.

[Chev. William]

A short while back I purchased a Project rifle from a poster on these forums. it was presented in a "WTS" post as follows:
"

For sale is a J. Stevens Model 17 .22 LR Project Rifle with New Octagon Replacement Barrel. We picked this up a long time ago and acquired a new 24" octagon blank from Brownell's to rebarrel but never got to it... Despite it's outward appearance, the action is exceptionally tight (reason for buying it) and the trigger is very crisp for the genre. The 20" 1/2 octagon 1/2 round barrel could be relined. We did many of these for other people but never took the time to do this one for ourselves.

Price for the rifle and the octagon barrel blank is $150 shipped. We can accept only a Postal Money Order or Cash, and we try to ship within 24 hours of receiving payment. First "I'll take it" here followed by a PM gets the rifle. We'll send along another used buttstock with the rifle.

Thanks for looking!

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For the price of $150 via USPS MO and my local State of California Gun Shop Taxes and Transfer Fees of $122 plus the cost of the MO and a ten day wait to take possession from my LGS (total cost about $274), I get a 'rusty old single shot rifle with a Taped wrist Butt stock plus a replacement Barrel Blank and a replacement butt stock.

I have the blank barrel and replacement butt stock in my hands now but must wait until June 20th to receive the rifle.
The Blank is full octagon ~24" long and ~.760" across the flats. with an aged brown surface coat of fine rust. one end shows fresh saw cut at a slight angle while the other end is the basic brown rust color.. The bore appears clean but not at a high polish shine, with multiple fine lands and a clockwise rotating twist.

The Replacement butt stock is a 'dark hardwood' (died Red Oak?) in color with fairly wide spaced growth rings, about 1/8" spacing, that feel raised on both sides of the stock. it is inletted like most "Favorite" stocks and shows used screw holes for butt plate and tang screws, with the top butt screw hole cracked toward the top in two places (to be glued and clamped) and both tang screw holes double drilled, top tang holes about 3/16" apart, with the bottom tang holes abutting. These will need filling and redrilling.
Will the inletting fit the rifle action? That is to be determined in the future, but I have my doubts.

As the rifle 'finish' is fine rust at the time, it will also need to be refinished, possibly via 'rust blue' conversion process?

As to the barrel and forearm that is the 'original' they also will need refinishing.

Now the "Favorite" came with a slip in barrel held in place by a single clamp screw working in a 'hole' in the barrel tenon bottom. The receiver has a roughly .660" diameter spigot hole that is shaped outside like a half octagon of about 1" width this MAY have enough 'meat' to allow threading a short distance at the front end with either 32TPI or 40TPI threads to emulate its bigger brother, the model 44, action arrangement.

The octagon blank seems to have enough 'meat for this.

The original barrel would need to have an exterior 'sleeve' added to take threads or just left as original and have a reduced bearing length in the receiver. original tenon length is about 1-1/2 " so using a 1/2 inch of thread would leave a bearing length of 1" in the receiver.

I am figuring on converting the receiver to a Center Fire via a replacement of the Breech Block with one from my stock of spares, along with a lever and link to make a reversible RF/CF conversion action.

My understanding of the "Rust Blue" process is the metal first is kept in a high humidity cabinet (steam cabinet?) until a fine red rust coat is present then it is Boiled in pure water in an iron container until the
Red Rust is converted to Blue-Black Iron Oxide.
Once the conversion is complete, the surface is rubbed to remove the none adherent oxide leaving an adherent blue finish.
I believe this process is repeated until the desired thickness and color is obtained.

Alternatively, I could thoroughly clean the metal and have the parts commercially blued via my LGS.

I am thinking I can have a convertible single shot rifle in .22LR, .221 Atkins CF, .22Ladybug CF, and .25ACP CF using interchangeable barrels and Breech block-link-lever assemblies.

Chev. William

[pietro]

.

FWIW

In both my and Mr. Single Shot's (Frank deHaas) opinion, the Stevens Favorites are too weak for a CF conversion, and "iffy" for .22WRM.


.

[ulav8r]

I have a favorite project rifle that needs to be relined or re-barreled. Based on the wear of the internal parts, I would consider it barely adequate for HV 22 LR. If it were made from good quality steel, properly hardened, it might be adequate for your listed cartridges.

[uscra112]

They do just fine converted to .32 Long Colt centerfire. Mine does, anyway. I won't do .32 S&W because some factory ammo has been seen to be loaded to 18,000 psi, which is about triple what the action is good for. I used a .22 LR breechblock/link/lever set for the CF conversion, keeping the rimfire BB/lever/link assembly intact so it can be returned to original any time.

The highest bolt thrust of the cartridges they sold the 1915 Favorite for is about 500 - 550 lb. If you want to do any of those micro-centerfires, calculate backward from that to determine what peak pressure would be, and judge for yourself whether it's worth it. By my back-of-the-envelope calculation, it won't be. The larger head diameters would force you to keep pressure well below that of a .22 HV round, or risk overloading the link.

That frame was used with a threaded-in barrel for a "Ladies Model", chambered .25-20 Single Shot for a very short time. I'm sure they found that the link couldn't take it. (Black powder .25-20 figures to about 900 lb. at the breech face.)

A much better choice for fiddling with more energetic rounds is the Hopkins and Allen 9xx series. A true falling-block, and they can be fitted with a threaded-in barrel. Change from RF to CF involves swapping just the link. The receiver is still just malleable iron, though. I did one for .32 S&W in the bad old days before I knew about the existence of that high pressure ammo. I keep all my .32 Colt/S&W loads just subsonic.

[Chev. William]

Hmmm.
I am guessing some readers equate "CF" with "High Pressure Rifle" only and did NOT read the cartridge listing through.
Repeating:

.22LR - which is a RF cartridge of about 23,000psi Pmax MAP.

.221 Atkins- which is a Wildcat .22LR equivalent CF made from a obsolete 5,5 Velodog case back in 1935, now formed from swaged down .25ACP cases or similar diameter swaged down 5.7x28 or .22 Hornet cases cut down to length. Also around 23,000-25,000psi Pmax MAP.

.22 Laaybug - a CF Wildcat Cartridge made from .25ACP swaged down cases and .219-.224" diameter bullets. It can also be formed from swaged down 5.7x28 or .22 Hornet Cases cut to length. This cartridge is CF and is typically loaded to 25,000psi Pmax MAP or less ( the original user loads subsonic for use in suppressed rifles for Urban varmint control).

.25ACP is a PISTOL cartridge of about 25,000psi Pmax MAP and has a .307" max rim diameter. Note also that .25ACP and listed dimensions of the .25 Stevens RF cartridges are similar and the .25ACP fired in a .25Stevens chambered rifle barrel yields about the same MV and energy as the .25Stevens (Long) RF cartridge as reported in contemporary literature.

All of the above cases have rim diameters that are comparable and are loaded to similar chamber pressures so where did the worries of high bolt face thrust come from?

Chev. William

[pietro]

Hmmm.
All of the above cases have rim diameters that are comparable and are loaded to similar chamber pressures so where did the worries of high bolt face thrust come from?



From Frank De Haas, aka Mr. Single Shot.

It's not only about bolt face thrust, it's also about the malleable iron actions/breechblocks and the internals not being particularly strong, which will result in the action shooting loose shortly with CF, unlike with RF rounds.

You said much the same in a previous thread here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?197704-How-strong-is-the-Stevens-action/page2


.

[Scrounge]

Hmmm.
I am guessing some readers equate "CF" with "High Pressure Rifle" only and did NOT read the cartridge listing through.
Repeating:

.22LR - which is a RF cartridge of about 23,000psi Pmax MAP.

.221 Atkins- which is a Wildcat .22LR equivalent CF made from a obsolete 5,5 Velodog case back in 1935, now formed from swaged down .25ACP cases or similar diameter swaged down 5.7x28 or .22 Hornet cases cut down to length. Also around 23,000-25,000psi Pmax MAP.

.22 Laaybug - a CF Wildcat Cartridge made from .25ACP swaged down cases and .219-.224" diameter bullets. It can also be formed from swaged down 5.7x28 or .22 Hornet Cases cut to length. This cartridge is CF and is typically loaded to 25,000psi Pmax MAP or less ( the original user loads subsonic for use in suppressed rifles for Urban varmint control).

.25ACP is a PISTOL cartridge of about 25,000psi Pmax MAP and has a .307" max rim diameter. Note also that .25ACP and listed dimensions of the .25 Stevens RF cartridges are similar and the .25ACP fired in a .25Stevens chambered rifle barrel yields about the same MV and energy as the .25Stevens (Long) RF cartridge as reported in contemporary literature.

All of the above cases have rim diameters that are comparable and are loaded to similar chamber pressures so where did the worries of high bolt face thrust come from?

Chev. William

Pretty sure it's called "invalid assumptions." I've been reading the data on the 32 (short) RF and 32 Long RF cartridges, and their centerfire equivalents, the .32 Colt Short and .32 Long Colt. Not to be confused with the .32 S&W Short & .32 S&W Long (which have very similar specs, btw.), .32 Colt New Police and other similar cartridges. Same bullets, same powder loads, should give the same pressures and velocities. I don't have the means to actually check pressures, aside from inspecting fired cases and primers/primer pockets, but I do have a chronograph to check velocities with. I don't like the word "should" for stuff I'm holding next to my face when I'm touching it off, but I'm pretty confident that if I don't use powders that are too easy to double charge, I'll be fine. And I'm still going to take precautions until I have inspected those cases and primers and primer pockets. I'm crazy, not stupid. (despite some other people's opinions!)

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I had two Steven's Favorites and after shooting them I began to think they were never really meant to handle modern 22 rim fire, especially the Mini Mags. I sold both.

[uscra112]

There is not nor has there ever been .22LR rimfire ammunition loaded to 23,000 psi. The 1915 Favorite will withstand typical "High Velocity" ammunition pretty well, but that is loaded to just 14,000. Do the math!

[uscra112]

I had two Steven's Favorites and after shooting them I began to think they were never really meant to handle modern 22 rim fire, especially the Mini Mags. I sold both.

If you had 1894-style Favorites, they weren't! The original Favorite was designed before smokeless rimfire ammo even existed. The very reason the 1915 was designed was that the toggle link in the 1894 loosened up quickly when the little gun was used steadily with Standard Velocity smokeless, never mind High Velocity, and users weren't happy. The key change in the 1915 is that the link is 60% wider, but even so, DeHass strongly warned against modifying Favorites for .22 Magnum, (which is actually loaded to about 19,500 psi, regardless of what the SAAMI max pressure spec says).

It's a matter of longevity, in the end. A tight Favorite won't explode in your hands if fired with hot ammo, but it will get loose pretty quickly, and the looser the headspace gets the greater the chance for unpleasant events. Therefor centerfire conversions have to be limited to ammo producing no more than about 500 lbs-force, unless user accepts that the rifle will need more frequent rebuilds. Which begs the question of whether micro .22 centerfires are worth it. Aside from the fun of doing it, performance can't be much different from .22 LRHV cartridges.

n.b. MiniMags are no hotter than other common 40 grain HV ammo. Not that I don't prefer 'em - they are considerably more accurate and consistent in my rifles than anything else.

[pietro]

.

The problem with converting a Favorite to CF, even cat sneeze loads, is that sometime in the future some innocent may be grieviously harmed when/if they unknowingly fire factory CF ammo in it after the converter/owner loses control of the rifle (sale, infirmity, death, etc).

[uscra112]

As always. Assuming that some Parkenfarker converted one to some commercially available chambering. I won't.

The point remains that some future possessor might not know what a safe load is for the obsolete or wildcat cartridge is.

[John Taylor]

According to SAAMI specs. the 22 LR and 22 mag are both loaded to 24,000 PSI for modern ammo. The 22 short is 21,000 and the WRF is loaded to 19,000. https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-2015-R2018-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

[Scrounge]

According to SAAMI specs. the 22 LR and 22 mag are both loaded to 24,000 PSI for modern ammo. The 22 short is 21,000 and the WRF is loaded to 19,000. https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-2015-R2018-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

My 1894 Favorite, with a couple of new screws, seems quite happy with 22 shorts, though it's chambered for .22 long rifle. Was fine with one .22LR Winchester Xpert 22 hollow point. Probably won't be shooting many more of those in it, though. Looking for some .22 CB Long, but not finding any. Cheaper Than Dirt has .22 CB shorts, $10.43 a box, but they want $16 to ship them. I think I'll wait until I can find them locally.

[uscra112]

According to SAAMI specs. the 22 LR and 22 mag are both loaded to 24,000 PSI for modern ammo. The 22 short is 21,000 and the WRF is loaded to 19,000. https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-2015-R2018-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

That's a maximum allowable pressure spec, John. Nothing on the market is loaded to that. If it were we'd have 40 grain swaged lead bullets leaving an 18 inch barrel at 1600 fps. Play about with it in Quickload and it'll be obvious.

Phil

[ulav8r]

Most of the centerfire cartridges listed by the OP are wildcats, available only by case forming and loading by an individual. A lightly compressed load of Norma R1 under the heaviest bullet available is apt to produce enough pressure to quickly wear out the Favorite action, maybe with only one shot. You can not rely on any wildcat or handload being restricted to any given pressure. Some people even reload with blank powder, which could produce even higher pressures. The R1 example was used because it was the fastest listing on the first burn rate chart I looked at.

You can not rely on any wildcat or handload being restricted to any given pressure. Some people even reload with blank powder, which could produce even higher pressures.

You can not rely on any wildcat or handload being restricted to any given pressure. Some people even reload with blank powder, which could produce even higher pressures.

You can not rely on any wildcat or handload being restricted to any given pressure. Some people even reload with blank powder, which could produce even higher pressures.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I am wondering where the r1 norma comes in as I did not notice that in discussion , who has r1 ? I know I do , but doubt a lot do .
If poster feels its what he wants to do who else does it matter to . If down the road someone buys it they could or should do a search and or have a competent person inspect it and decide for themselves .

Why does anyone say it 3 times ? I can rely on any wildcat or handload I load to be what ever pressure I want it to be , some do reload with blank powder to good success and that means they know what they are doing , when you load or reload you should know what you are doing . Higher pressures and all are what you load whatever you load to , your choice to do what you do or not , if someone wants to do something else then you do make note and move on , your choice to load to what you do my choice to do what I want to .

I have several wildcat calibers and I may choose to duplex or not , and I may use surplus powders or powders not listed for a caliber based on experience and research , do so or not its up to you , but it is my choice or posters choice to do what we do , part of why I do not post on loads here as I have had to many nanny state posts in reply or the nra certified proud to post loaders express their less experience what the nra does not condone or lobby for wayne lepews new suit ideas , so build what you want shoot what you want and the others can go hang with the homies in chaz .

[ulav8r]

As explained, R1 was the fastest on the first burn rate chart I looked at. I have known or read of many people who handload without following reasonable guidelines.

When someone asks what pressure a wildcat develops, it makes me wonder if they have a good understanding of what wildcats are about. I was trying to emphasize that the person using the loading tools determines the pressure, not the caliber being reloaded.

[uscra112]

Right. There are no handbooks for wildcats. Someone coming into possession of one as a legacy or at an estate auction had better be an experienced reloader, or else.

n.b. SAAMI max pressure for .25ACP is 17000 psi. I have no idea whether factory ammo is actually loaded to that, but if it is, that's about 880 lbs-force bolt thrust, which IMHO is well beyond what even a 1915 Favorite can stand for more than a couple dozen rounds.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I see now what your reference was about , Yes R1 is top of most burn rate charts and should be used as all powders with forethought and care , I ended up with some a long time back and norma 202 , price was right , I have always tried to use care and caution in loading .

[Chev. William]

Estimated case water capacities:
.22 short = 3.1 grains H2O.
.22 Long = 4.3 Grains H2O.
.22 L.R. = 4.4 grains H2O.
.221 Atkins = 5.5 grains H2O.
.25 ACP = 6.7 grains H2O.

A .25ACP case, of .276" O.D. and .604" length will hld from 5.00 to 5.31 grains Weight of Black Powder depending on the granulation size.
Normal load length with a 50 grain FMJ RN bullet is .910" maximum.
if a load of ffg Black Powder weighing 5.00 grains is compressed under such a 50 grain bullet to an Overall length of .850", the Black Powder will be compressed to nearly a solid column, at .840" overall length, it distorts the case, locking it inn the shell holder to the extent i had to use a hammer and punch to remove the cartridge form the shell holder.
I have NOT fired any of these experimental Black Powder loads across a chronograph.
I have fired Factory PPU and Fiocci .25 ACP through my Custom Ruger Single Eight across a chronograph.
PPU states their ammo is loaded to 775fps per CIP Testing and Fiocci says theirs is loaded to 800fps from a 4 inch barrel in their CIP testing.
From my Ruger Single Eight revolver i get average 771fps and average 745fps, probably due to the cylinder to forcing cone gap venting. I figure about 2.1 percent velocity loss due to venting and not recovered by my longer, 10-5/8" barrel.
Based upon B.B.T.I. tests on three types of Factory .25ACP ammo, I should see about 1000fps out of a 16 inch barrel if fired from a NONE Venting firearm. Above 16 inch length they saw a decrease in velocity of the Factory ammo, dropping to around 900fps at 18" length.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I now have physical possession of my Stevens type 1915 "Favorite" Rifle/
I guess this weekend will be initial tear-down and cleaning, then inspection of its components befoire reassembly.

Chev. William

[FLINTNFIRE]

Best wishes and have fun .

[John Boy]

Safe haven for Favorites is 22RF’s reloaded with black powder. Then again not many of us reloaders make black powder 22 RF ammo
4.5gr Swiss Null-B in a 22 Long rifle is 1130 FPS over a chronograph

[uscra112]

Thanks John Boy. That confirms my own calculation.

I think Chev's .22 RF case capacities are a bit low. But it's awfully hard to do the water test on such a tiny case.

Working backward from those .25 ACP velocities gives me about 12,000 psi in Quickload. Bolt thrust calculates to about 620 pounds-force, which IMHO is too high for even the 1915 Favorite. I guess Chev should watch and report how fast the headspace opens up from link compression. Proof is in the pudding!

[Chev. William]

July 5th bump to the thread.
The last couple of weeks have been noisy in my neighborhood with fireworks being set off both nearby and over a mile away (based upon visual sighting vs sound report). It seems my neighbors are no longer following the Democrat Governor nor Democrat Mayor edicts about outside gatherings and celebrations.
Many Arial star/bomb/shell fired both for 'Juneteenth' and July 4th evenings with the July 4th activity continuing until about 0430 July 5th! some of the stars appeared to be of the 'professional display' sizes but were set off in local streets, going up several seconds before bursting in great splendor. Red, yellow, white, blue, silver, green, purple, and gold colors involved so the chemistry was far ranging. intermixed were 'bottle rockets' of many sizes, roman candles, fountains of Sparkling Fire and multiple bursts of crackling pops.
All in All a grand impromptu display that was fun to watch from a chair in my driveway.
Chev. William

[Scrounge]

July 5th bump to the thread.
The last couple of weeks have been noisy in my neighborhood with fireworks being set off both nearby and over a mile away (based upon visual sighting vs sound report). It seems my neighbors are no longer following the Democrat Governor nor Democrat Mayor edicts about outside gatherings and celebrations.
Many Arial star/bomb/shell fired both for 'Juneteenth' and July 4th evenings with the July 4th activity continuing until about 0430 July 5th! some of the stars appeared to be of the 'professional display' sizes but were set off in local streets, going up several seconds before bursting in great splendor. Red, yellow, white, blue, silver, green, purple, and gold colors involved so the chemistry was far ranging. intermixed were 'bottle rockets' of many sizes, roman candles, fountains of Sparkling Fire and multiple bursts of crackling pops.
All in All a grand impromptu display that was fun to watch from a chair in my driveway.
Chev. William

Saw some video from KTLA, one of the TV stations I watched as a kid, showing the Los Angeles basin pretty well full of fireworks. Made me homesick for a moment. https://twitter.com/i/status/1279636803037925377
Newsie is freaking about it, too.

[1hole]

I love to see HONEST grass roots contempt for over-bearing libbrul "You must do good as I say it's good" petty tyrants. I got to see far more fireworks from my lawn than I've seen in staged displays for years!

[Chev. William]

This Morning I took the butt-stock off this Stevens rifle and did some measuring.
Butt-stock wrist tape does not appear to extend into the in-letting for the action. there is an old broken off section of the butt heel wood.
The provided replacement stock appear to be cut from 'Red Oak' as it has wide spaced porous areas between bands of solid 'red' wood that is hard to the feel and does not 'dent' with finger nail pressure. In-letting is incomplete and will need to be finished to make it usable.
The two tang slots are about 1/4 inch too deep lengthwise and the spring relief is not deep enough to clea5r the main spring when in fired position, but does mostly clear it when in cocked position. Also, the butt contour is more curved than the old stock's butt and plate.

This is NOT a '1915' type action.
It appears to be a late production '1894' type as it has a .510" wide breech block with a .490' wide lever, there is no factory stamped 'Favorite' nor model designation on the receiver nor top tang. A two digit number (58) is visible on the lower tang with no letters either preceding or following, there are no markings visible on the front of the receiver.

The shape of the top of the breech block is 'cut away' like the typical 1894 types; rather than the 'straight top' of the later 1915 types.
The hammer spring is a leaf type secured in place with a screw.

Also it appears the 'half cock' shelf has been broken as pulling the trigger in ;half cock; causes the hammer to fall, I do have spare hammers so I can replace this broken one with one that does have a good 'half cock' shelf/notch.

This action also is fitted with a late Extractor/Ejector in that it is held forward by a spring loaded plunger until the lever is forced to full open, when it 'snaps' the extractor to the rear smartly, with the spring pressure of the plunger's angle cut top end against the breech block pivot screw.

Barrel markings include "J. STEVENS A. & T. CO." (all in Caps.) with "CHCOPKEE FALLS __ Pat App __ 04" in smaller caps on a second line. Some letters in the second line are not visible/readable at this time, due to rust coating.
The barrel is also stamped "22 LONG RIFLE" as its caliber designation.
Removing the fore-end wood reveals no added markings on the barrel.

The barrel retention socket is oval with the rear edge 'peened back' even with the tenon surface.

The fore-end appears to be of fine grain dark wood without visible chips or cracks.

The front sight is a steel base only, with the possible 'rocky mountain' tapered 'Nickel Silver' blade missing. I do have reproduction copies of this type sight, so replacement is possible.

The rear sight has the wide stepped elevator typical of Stevens sights and has a "wide V" notch including a shallow 'U' in its lower extremity. Visually, the sight picture appears to be that the rear 'U' is slightly wider than the apparent width of the front sight base 'slot ears'

Chev, William

[Chev. William]

Additional measurement observations:
The link is about 1/4 inch wide.
The body of the 'ejector/extractor is about 1/4 inch wide.
The top end of the ejector.extractor is reduced to slightly more than 3/16 inch wide, possibly .20 inch,
These are rough measurements; not done with a micrometer nor caliper this morning.
The Hammer 'half cock' is indeed 'broken' and partly 'filed or dressed' smooth.
The Trigger sear is rough on about half of it's front to rear 'width' with the rear part smoothed off. I currently do not have another sample trigger out to compare its 'sear length' to.

This hammer has a notch for the spring end that reaches within about 1/32 inch of the Hammer pivot hole.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I bought what appeared to be a very similar 1894 Stevens hammer on "Ebay" and it arrived yesterday in the USPS mail delivery.
-it has slightly more 'meat' between spring seat and pivot screw hole, an unbroken 'half cock' notch, and a different front face contour than the original hammer.
It looks like some fitting will be necessary to get this hammer to function in this action.

BAH!!! The "Ebay" Hammer is thicker than the original one! Enough that it would require a surface grinder or Blanchard grinder to bring it down to width, neither of which I have available.

But first will be to smooth the rusted surfaces of the action parts before refinishing them. Perhaps rubbing with steel wool is a good way to start.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Bought another hammer on "Ebay" to try that is due here about August 7th.
I hope this one fits my receiver.
Chev. William

[uscra112]

That's weird, because all my Favorites, from 1889s thru the 1915s, have hammers that are.270 - .275 thick.

A Model 44 hammer is .300 thick. Did you somehow wind up with one of those? They look much the same.

Thinning the hammer on a grinder would necessitate re-heat-treating it. They were case hardened, and not so very thickly at that.

[Chev. William]

That's weird, because all my Favorites, from 1889s thru the 1915s, have hammers that are.270 - .275 thick.

A Model 44 hammer is .300 thick. Did you somehow wind up with one of those? They look much the same.

Thinning the hammer on a grinder would necessitate re-heat-treating it. They were case hardened, and not so very thickly at that.

My Received broken hammer, using a Dial Caliper, measures .268" thick and has .023" margin between pivot hole and spring seat notch. The Pivot hole measures .187" diameter.

The First Ebay replacement hammer measures .334" thick and .098" margin between pivot hole and spring seat notch. The pivot hole measures .198" diameter.

One I believe is a model 44 hammer measures .307" thick and .159" margin between pivot hole and spring seat notch. The pivot hole measures .236" diameter.

I have yet to receive the second Ebay purchase hammer.

I have not found any 'favorite' 1894 hammers in my 'stock of used parts' that has such a small spring seat to pivot margin, all seem to be much greater in margin measurements with a larger radius to the seat notch.

My few 1915 hammers have the spring seat notch located differently and of larger notch radius to fit the coil spring 'stirrup' of the 1915 model.

I am getting confused by these different hammer measurements and contours.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Bought another hammer on "Ebay" to try that is due here about August 7th.
I hope this one fits my receiver.
Chev. William

The second Ebay purchased hammer arrived, it fits the receiver: BUT it also has a broken half cock notch!

The spring seat notch is about the same along with the two sear seat points on the hammer (Quick checked by using a pivot screw through both hammers and closely looking at them under strong lighting.

Time to try some other processes I think.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Wow! An Ebay auction for a Stevens Favorite 1894 'housing' is going for over $497.00 today.

Admittedly it is both engraved and plated, but at now over $500 with shipping it is getting really 'pricey'.

I found it while searching 'Stevens Favorite Rifle'.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

In mid September, I took the action parts and both replacement hammers to my gunsmith and commissioned him to 'rebuild both hammer's Half Cock notches back to original dimensions and contours.

At the same time I asked him to make and fit "bushings" for the Breech Block Pivot screw holes in the Receiver, with the inside surfaces fitted so the Breech Block is closely supported, side to side. This intended to strengthen the pivot screw by removing the wide spaces between the Breech Block and the inside surfaces of the Receiver, which will change the 'Bending' loads into 'Shear' loads on the pivot screw.

After this work is done, I will need to test the action (firing test) before refinishing it.

Now to wait for the work to be done

[uscra112]

Are the shoulders in the frame in intimate contact with the breechblock when the action is closed? Tightening and reinforcing the breechblock pivot is of zero value if they are not. The pivot and screw bear almost none of the load in a properly fitted-up Favorite or Model 44, and as a side benefit the force on the link is reduced.

Your 'smith would be well advised to make those bushings a bit eccentric so that the breechblock can be shifted rearward if necessary.

John Taylor posted this photo of what happens to the breechblock if the pivot is asked to carry the thrust load.

[Chev. William]

Are the shoulders in the frame in intimate contact with the breechblock when the action is closed? Tightening and reinforcing the breechblock pivot is of zero value if they are not. The pivot and screw bear almost none of the load in a properly fitted-up Favorite or Model 44, and as a side benefit the force on the link is reduced.

Your 'smith would be well advised to make those bushings a bit eccentric so that the breechblock can be shifted rearward if necessary.

John Taylor posted this photo of what happens to the breechblock if the pivot is asked to carry the thrust load.

Uscra112,
I currently do not have the action in hand so cannot answer your question accurately.
However, from memory, I believe the Breech Block did not close tightly against the rear receiver shoulders as received.

Somewhere in my home I believe I have a modified Favorite Breech Block, set up for CF and with the rear edges built up to be fitted to the receiver rear shoulders tightly when in battery.

I believe this item was cut from tool steel by the original seller so it may be a bit stronger than the originals.

Now I will need to search for it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

It's infinitely easier to simply elongate the pivot hole in the breechblock to let it move back against the shoulders. Followed up by fitting the barrel breech face so that you have an interference fit as the action closes. The block essentially becomes a wedge driven between the two. The only load on the pivot is then a small vertical component as the block tries to rotate about the uppermost link pin.

Here are force resolution diagrams generated by Chuck Deats about five years ago, illustrating both cases.

[Chev. William]

Uscra112,
Thank you for more usefulk hints on fitting up a Favorite or model 44 action!
I had not previously considered making the BB pivot hole Oval in order to allow the BB to be moved back into contact with the receiver shoulders.

As to the 'hammer lug', was that ever done for the Favorite action?
I thought it was only done on some later model 44 types.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

The hammer lug was only provided for model 44s when chambered for .32-40, .38-40, and .38-55. Never for any lesser cartridge, and never for the Favorite. The Favorites for the most part don't even need to be fitted up tight, but I know you are contemplating centerfire chamberings that can be a good deal more energetic than the small rimfires for which it was originated.

[Chev. William]

Uncra112,
RE: contemplated Chamberings vs action:
1894 Favorite Stevens;
.221 Atkins/.22 Ladybug/.22Ladybug-Repeater.
.25ACP/.25ALR/.25ALS and downloaded .25MACP/.25ALRM
.32 COLT Short/.32 COLT Long.
Model 44 Stevens;
.25ACP/.25A:R/.25MACP/.25ALS/.25ALRM.
.32 Colt Extra Short/.32COLT Short/.32 Colt Long/.32 Colt Extra Long.
1890 Winchester;
.22 Short/.22 Long/.22 Long Rifle/.22WRF/.22WRM and possible CF versions.
.25ACP/.25ALR/.25ALS
Model 56 Marlin;
.25ACP/.25ALR/.25ALS if I feel the longer cartridge can be successfully fed.
Ruger SAP No MK and MKII;
.22LR
.25ACP
Ruger Single Eight;
.25ACP/.25ALR./.25MACP.,25ALS/.25ALRM all long cases loaded to 1.400 max overall length.
Ruger Single Six .32H&R MAG rebarreled;
.32Colt Short/.32 Colt Long/.32 Extra Long/.32S&W (Short)/.32S&W Long/.32 Special/.32H&R MAG.

I plan to hold the Favorite loads to about 900-1100fps.
I plan to hold the Model 44 loads to about 400-1300fps.
I plan to use Factory loads and similar in the Winchester.
I plan to use Factory and some hand loads in the Marlin, as it has been sold in .30 Carbine and .256 Magnum calibers.
I plan to use loads limited to an estimated 32,000psi in the Ruger Single Eight, but have fired several rounds of 63 grain Lead with 3.0 grains of BE-86 from it already.
As to the Ruger Single Six .32H&R Mag Revolver, I still have not decided on its intended loads.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I got my action back from my gunsmith's shop in a bag with the trigger, repaired hammer, breech block and link and lever all assembled to the outside oft the receiver but did not open it up to check the bag contents at the shop. Sad move on my part. The receiver is NOT bushed as requested, the two springs and their attach screws are missing, the take down screw is missing, and my second hammer is not present.

By the time I discovered this the shop was closed for the day (Friday) and my gunsmith does not come into the shop on Saturday, so the first time I can again talk to him is next Tuesday.
Oh well, patience is a virtue.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Sadly my parts cannot be found by my gunsmith in their shop.

Now I am looking for replacements on the internet.

Also, a person sent me some sample Star line new 7.65 French Long cases, which seem to be rimless versions of S&W Long/ .32 Special cases so I think my first swage will be to convert them to .32 Colt diameters, then follow that with swaging down to .25 Stevens diameters.

Chev. William

[uscra112]

In the immortal words of Albert King: "If it wasn't for bad luck, you wouldn't have no luck at all".

[Chev. William]

I finally won a trigger spring auction on Ebay,
and now have a complete set for my action
except the trigger spring screw does not go into
the hole in the tang, oh 'fouie'.
I will need to check the threads on both the screw
and the tang,then decide on a course of action.

But this IS progress!

Further thinking ahead, the receiver and barrel will need preparation for refinishing, nut what finish to use?
Blue is tradition.
Nickel plating is somewhat gaudy.
Chrome is sleazy way out.
TiN might be a possibility but might
not work out.
Pondering decisions.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I am still thinking about possible Refinish types, with
Tin and Blue seeming to be the most practical.
I still need to take the parts back to my gunsmith to '
correct' the thread problem with Trigger Spring
retainer screw vs Frame threaded hole.
my finances have been stretched the last few months
due to several factors.