.223 case to make a .308 bullet, does anyone do it?

[bigjake]

Is there anyone that draws part of the case to build a .308 bullet of any size? I have scads of FC .223 brass that I hate. It is aways way under size and it has crimped primers to boot. I dont mind crimped cases, like LC or cases that are properly made, its worth dealing with the crimps on those brass.
Anyway, I can make the draw dies or necking dies needed, and im not worried about annealing a couple times. Has any of you swagers made a good or decent 130 gr. to 200 grain projectile from .223 or 5.56 brass? I did a search and went thru about 20 pgs. to no avail.

thanks in advance, Mike

[bullet maker 57]

that would be quite a few draws to get it down to 308.

[Metrobluing]

You can draw 9mm brass to make decent jackets for 308 bullets up to 165 grain.

[MUSTANG]

Big Jake:

I have been making .308 jackets from 5/16 Copper Tubing for 7 or 8 years; but cost has gone up to about 10 cents per jacket with the cost of copper tubing. Currently making a portion of my .308 Jackets from 5.7X28 brass that I sometimes find on the ground at ranges.

Recently played with some .223/5.56 Brass cases prepped to make .308 Jackets. I had about 30 or so Berdan .223 cases I had range picked up and put in the "Almost Scrap Bin". Used them to experiment with. Because I could not/did not remove the primers; discovered that Burden Primed .223 cases are not a good choice - the primer gets squeezed into a Tip at the base of the Jacket with Berdan Primed cases.

Here are the steps I use in my Corbin Press:

1. Clean all cases (I use a Harbor Freight Ultra Sound cleaner). Before or after deprive all .223 cases.
2. Heat Treat the mouth of the case (To keep the mouth from splitting)
3. Using a .223 shell holder, place a .223 into the shell holder.
4. Use a 7mm or .280 decapping pin to open up/expand the mouth (I had Corbin make me a .290 diameter punch to open the mouths).
5. Using a Lee .308 bullet sizer as a "Die" screw the Lee die in a few turns - cycle to reduce the .223 shoulder, turn die in some more & cycle; keep reducing the shoulder & then sides to .308 diameter until you are approaching the bottom of the .223 case base.
6. Heat treat the reduced .223 case until it is bright orange (Failure to do so will stick a case or break a die when making a jacket).
7. I then use a Corbin 9mm to .308 jacket reducer die; pushing the previously heat treated/annealed .223 case base first into the die. I turn the die in 4 turns. Cycle the press forcing the base into the 9mm to .308 jacket die, turn the die a turn or so, cycle the press, turn die in again, continue until the .223 brass is fully through the die - I have a 1/4 metal dowel rod about 2 & 1/2 inches long I use as a "Pusher Rod" to push the case fully through the Die. If one attempts to push the newly formed jacket out of the die using another .223 case - You will probably get a "Telescope" of the next .223 case into the previous forming jacket.
8. I then use a Home Flex 1/2 in. to 1 in. O.D. Pipe Size Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing Cutter to cut the .308 Jacket to size. This pipe cutter has a wide set of rollers so I get a fairly straight mouth on the case.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-1-2-in-1-in-O-D-Pipe-Size-Corrugated-Stainless-Steel-Tubing-Cutter-11-TC-02125/204767432

There is a LOT OF BRASS in that base - so both making the jacket, and swaging the bullets in the jacket takes a lot of pressure - which is why I tend to swage in small increments (set die, cycle, turn die in, cycle, and continue ). Take care and patience - one does not want a die stuck with jacket/bullet; or worse a cracked die.

Some time in the next 2 to 6 months I want to write a detailed thread with pics on how I make jackets from .223 for heavy .308 bullets (Greater than 175 grains). Currently to busy with other irons in the fire though.

Best wishes on the .223 to .308 jacket endeavor.

[bigjake]

Mustang, thank you very much for the explanation! regarding the 9mm to .308 jacket reducing die; you say base first. so, there must be a punch. if so, what is the diameter? Also, how long does the finished jacket be to make a bullet about 168grs. or one that is 200grs? better yet what size do you suggest?

bigjake (mike)

[bigjake]

Here's what I did to get it to work; first i did what Mustang said; open the mouth. i used my 300 blk decap/neck sizing button. i didnt have 7mm. I annealed redhot before every draw. Next, i ran the case up thru mouth first in the lee .356 9mm bullet sizer. next, I made a sizer out of a .332 drill bushing, (those things make great sizers and de-rimmers pressed into anything threaded 7/8-14). Next it went thru a lee .314 bullet sizer. The last draw was a .305 die i made out of a gr. 8 bolt that I made for drawing down a 5.7x28 case for a .308 jacket. I used a bunch of different punches, i cant remember the exact ones i used. Sometimes I had to use a little chunk of round stock on top of the punch to help send the case through. One more thing; At the openings of each die, I rounded each entrance well and polished shiny with 800 grit wet sandpaper.

[grullaguy]

I make .312" bullets from 5.56 brass. It takes 4 draws with an anneal and cleaning between each draw.
As I bond the cores, I have had good success drawing down my .312" bullets down to .308" when needed.

[bigjake]

grullaguy, why do you clean after each draw? Can't you just tumble in ss pins and citric powder after the final draw?

[clodhopper]

He cleans them so scale on the brass doesn't scratch his die.

[grullaguy]

He cleans them so scale on the brass doesn't scratch his die.

This is the reason.
I bought my dies and for the price I paid, I want them to last as long as possible.

[bigjake]

Wow! making these 308 jackets from .223's are too much like work! I'm using a rockchucker and an A-2 I think Mustangs Corbin press is more suited for this. although, the A-2 pushes thru pretty good. These jackets are pretty nice looking, they are about 1.80" long. Im going to mill one in half to see what they look like inside.

[grullaguy]

The main problem with attempting to draw a casing down too much at a time is that the walls are seldom identical and one side of the case will have more friction/resistance than another. This can result in a casing finishing up as a jacket that resembles a banana.

[bigjake]

I had no bananas, they look really nice. I'm not sure if its worth the all of the work it takes though. I thoroughly enjoyed making the dies and figuring out the process. I guess in a SHTF situation this could be a valuable skill.

[midnight]

I have drawn 223 brass down to 307. I had to make 5 draw dies to do it. I took great care in determining the size and shape of the punch but still ended up with uneven jacket mouths and wall thickness varied all around the jacket. Just didn't seem worth the effort. Jackets from 5/16 copper tubing are much easier. I might just try drawing by pushing the jacket through the die by pushing on the base and eliminating the punch diameter variable. By pushing base first, the jacket forms around the punch closely and depends on springback to allow you to draw the punch out of the jacket. Donor cases must be sorted by headstamp but even then wall thickness varies and jackets sometimes stick on the punch. Nose first drawing like I do on the 41 Mag jacketseliminates the punch diameter variable.

Bob

[MUSTANG]

I have drawn 223 brass down to 307. I had to make 5 draw dies to do it. I took great care in determining the size and shape of the punch but still ended up with uneven jacket mouths and wall thickness varied all around the jacket. Just didn't seem worth the effort. Jackets from 5/16 copper tubing are much easier. I might just try drawing by pushing the jacket through the die by pushing on the base and eliminating the punch diameter variable. By pushing base first, the jacket forms around the punch closely and depends on springback to allow you to draw the punch out of the jacket. Donor cases must be sorted by headstamp but even then wall thickness varies and jackets sometimes stick on the punch. Nose first drawing like I do on the 41 Mag jacketseliminates the punch diameter variable.

Bob

I tried using cases mouth first (brass base against punch) and got "Flow By" resulting in a brass lip extruded onto the base. Abandoned that as an option (might be solutions but pursued other interests).

[bigjake]

I just read mustangs thread on how he does it with a corbin press. my operation is totally different. He uses a punch inside the jacket and uses the power of that corbin swage press to press the case thru. i on the other hand, I anneal the mouth then open the neck up to .308 ID with the 300 blk sizing button from a reloading die. then I anneal the case bright red hot on sort of tree made from a 1/2" rod with a bunch of 2 1/2" long 1/8" dia. rods welded to it. I clamp the tree to the bench and load 25 cases and use an acetylene torch which heats up the cases very quickly. I dont overheat them it just goes much much quicker this way. I push all of the cases from the base (head) up through the different dies screwing the die down a few of the threads at a time maximizing the leverage of the rockchucker and the A-2 presses. They are coming out straight and are 305.5" dia. Mustangs are .307" dia. I think or hope that the core seating die will open my .305.5 cases up to .307 before entering the point die. maybe I will have sort of a boat tail because the thicker section will not expand as readily as the thinner sections. I will be annealing and wet tumbling one more time before core seating.