Relining 58 remington

[Ozark mike]

Have a 58 rem thinking about relining to .445. Doesn't matter if its a colt lemat whatever. if anyone has done this id like to hear about it how's accuracy before and after how much it cost. If i had a lathe id do it myself but that didn't happen so now i get to pay someone else
Thanks

[arcticap]

Have a 58 rem thinking about relining to .445. Doesn't matter if its a colt lemat whatever. if anyone has done this id like to hear about it how's accuracy before and after how much it cost. If i had a lathe id do it myself but that didn't happen so now i get to pay someone else
Thanks

Listed under conversion services, this reputable C&B gunsmith states that he will reline a Navy barrel to .357 for $150. --->>> http://cartridgeconversion.com/Home_Page.php

"Re-line Navy Barrel to .357 $150.00
(includes forcing cone, cyinder gap, and crown)"

[carbine]

I've had Bobby Hoyt, The Freischutz Shop reline Six barrels. Four were .58 and two were .52 all shot great. Those were Rifles and Carbines,
Will cost more than a pistol/revolver

[725]

+1 for Bob Hoyt. He has done several for me and this week I'm going back to pick up two more. Very good mechanic in the re-bore / re-line world.

[Eddie Southgate]

Have a 58 rem thinking about relining to .445. Doesn't matter if its a colt lemat whatever. if anyone has done this id like to hear about it how's accuracy before and after how much it cost. If i had a lathe id do it myself but that didn't happen so now i get to pay someone else
Thanks

Original of reproduction ? Why do you want to reline ?

[Ozark mike]

Its a reproduction I've had for a few years. Its accuracy could be a little better. Its somewhere in the 10 moa range at 50 yds. I remember dad years ago poping a rabbit in the head at a good distance with his colt. This one not so much. This is also my smallest pistol i own i like to carry it since i got rid of my 44Mag. A little better in the accuracy dept wouldnt hurt. Dont want to ream the chambers they are thin enough and i might try to replicate the old 19th century postol powder one of these days

Thanks for the answers i do appreciate it

[rodwha]

Its a reproduction I've had for a few years. Its accuracy could be a little better. Its somewhere in the 10 moa range at 50 yds. I remember dad years ago poping a rabbit in the head at a good distance with his colt. This one not so much. This is also my smallest pistol i own i like to carry it since i got rid of my 44Mag. A little better in the accuracy dept wouldnt hurt. Dont want to ream the chambers they are thin enough and i might try to replicate the old 19th century postol powder one of these days

Thanks for the answers i do appreciate it

I have a 2013 Pietta NMA, and it also came with the grossly undersized chambers. Fly reamed them out to 0.449” and chamfered it. I’ve been debating going up to 0.452” which my grooves are, or even 0.453”. The thin walls give me pause, but there’s another who’s done so and I’ve talked to him a bit about it because I use energetic powders (Olde Eynsford and T7) and short for caliber custom bullets with long driving bands which produce more pressure. He does likewise and shoots quite a bit. Ultimately you want to stop before you get to the bolt stops where it’s really thin. And think about that for just a moment. How thin is it right there? If that’s been more than up to the task I don’t see how reaming the chambers above that point could be any worse. I’ve also looked for information on cylinders that blew and can’t seem to find any. I can still understand an aversion to reaming though, and lining the barrel to match works all the same I suppose (not for me as I share projectiles with my ROA).

My NMA’s accurate hunting charge is 30 grns (weighed 33) of 3F Olde E no matter which projectile I’ve used (my 195 WFN bullet is merely 0.460” long as I figured my NMA would come with the slow 1:30” twist which is does not, and so I intend to fill in the excess space with more lead). In essence this would be an equivalent load to the .45 Schofield/.45 ACP, and that’s considerable, and those cylinder walls are all fine.

[Ozark mike]

I came across some info a while back where someone was testing 4fg and comparing it to the old pistol powder i think it was 25grns behind a conical and it matched the ballistics from ye ole days i might go this route when i burn through this batch then again i dont really trust the pietta steel so im still stuck to the fence. I know if i touch the cyls i wont be goin to 4fg. Just thinkin how to get some more velocity out of a 5.5 bbl.

[Gtek]

What is the groove diameter in your barrel?

[Ozark mike]

A couple thousandth bigger than the cyl. I havent measured it in quite some time ill pick up a caliper in the next couple days and let you know my old one took a dump. If i remember right it was .451

[Good Cheer]

Have considered getting Mister Hoyt to make me a barrel blank to fit Pietta .446/.447 diameter chambers.
One blank to cut up could in essence be a "group buy", as perhaps could be getting Pietta's rebarreled.
That way the twist and rifling geometry would be to suit and the barrel lengths would be to one's whimsies.

Another wanta-try-it is having a .36 Pietta 1858 rebored to use .44 molds, like a caseless .44 Special.

[Ozark mike]

Yep thought about goin to .430 also but that means cyl would have to sleeved. I do like the blank idea to.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah, if they sold revolvers with chambers and barrels to shoot .44 molds they pro'bly couldn't build 'em fast enough.

About using the chambers as is and replacing the barrel, sizing soft lead cast .45 molds so as the rear of the boolit slips into the chambers is pretty easy to do.

[indian joe]

Yep thought about goin to .430 also but that means cyl would have to sleeved. I do like the blank idea to.

Mike
if you ream cylinders I reckon its smart to only go as deep as the projectile seats - we took an army colt (repro) out to .464 to match a fat bore - shoots roundball so we didnt need to go very deep - that gun (with full house loads) turned from cylinder bore shotgun patterns to how good can you hold it...............

[Ozark mike]

They are capable of amazing accuracy if things are correct. dad carried one years ago and a rabbit @ 100yds was easy meat

[rodwha]

I came across some info a while back where someone was testing 4fg and comparing it to the old pistol powder i think it was 25grns behind a conical and it matched the ballistics from ye ole days i might go this route when i burn through this batch then again i dont really trust the pietta steel so im still stuck to the fence. I know if i touch the cyls i wont be goin to 4fg. Just thinkin how to get some more velocity out of a 5.5 bbl.

The Hazard paper cartridges from the Civil War using their Pistol Powder has 36 grns of 4F pushing a 211 grn conical in .44 cal. The Lyman 1st Edition had pressure/load data using up to a full chamber of 4F Goex both with a ball and a bullet.

Since my guns are hunting tools I have a minimum performance threshold, which is warm .44 Spl or 300+ ft/lbs with a bullet. From what I’ve seen that’s about 25 grns or so. Because we’ve all seen the dismal performance of most 3F powders I won’t use anything but energetic powders as they’re the only ones capable with the powder capacity restrictions. That gives me Olde Eynsford and Triple 7, but one day I’ll likely try Swiss as well. Having something akin to a .45 ACP is nice to have on your hip, though my Ruger, using 35 grns, is akin to a .45 ACP +P. It has a 7.5” barrel and is stainless so it’s not quite as ideal as a sidearm.

If Olde E, T7, and Swiss weren’t available you can bet your hind quarters I’d be using standard Goex 4F. It still doesn’t perform as well as the others but it’s better than sub 300 ft/lb performance.

[rodwha]

The steel should be more than fine for BP pressures. It’s supposed to be better than what they were dealing with during the Civil War from what I understand.

Here’s the barrel’s dimensions on my 2013 Pietta Sheriff with the ~1:16” twist:

https://i.postimg.cc/XqwhGqmb/16-C4-F1-E0-4-AD0-4520-922-F-8-DB82-FD790-BA.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/D0VHwLC6/C0-E81453-6-FE6-46-B3-8-AE1-44-F55-B97-A7-F2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Ozark mike]

Barrel .441 x .451
Chamber .448

[Gtek]

It would be very difficult for me to stop myself from opening that cylinder to .452" or so.

[Ozark mike]

Id like to also but the walls are close to .050 thick. ive seen a 60 colt 3 chambers in the cylinder blown out not pretty. That said it was my uncles who is not the brightest.

[Ozark mike]

Well i went ahead and ordered a adjustable reamer. we'll see if i blow it. Figured if i ever get a vaquero I'll use it on that too we'll see.

[Gtek]

Only need to go as deep as required to accommodate ball depth. And set up is just about 99.99% of finished product quality.

[Ozark mike]

Ill probably figure in the length of a conical if i find one i like. Pretty much every thing i own is a continuous project.:killingpc

[stubshaft]

+1 for Bob Hoyt. He has done several for me and this week I'm going back to pick up two more. Very good mechanic in the re-bore / re-line world.

Bobby is a great guy and has done a number of barrels for me including an 8 bore.

[Ozark mike]

Hey rodwha did you ever get a kaido mold or is that the one you got from tom i remember reading about you tellin a story about getting 500 ftlbs out of either a pietta or a roa. Just curious if you use that load often or if it was just for experimentation purposes. I have very little gadgetry here so i cant do the r&d that id like but this is one of my defensive pistolas and if i need it to it may get called on for a crazy use if i dont happen to have my 5lb bfr hanging off me. Hope not though
Thanks for the advice your work along with others with c&bs have kept me on track since i cant keep up with everything i got going on around here. I do a lot of other specialty things besides reloading and gunsmithing and have a hard time keeping track of the little things thanks.

[rodwha]

I did not get a Kaido mold. I was buying his 240 grn version from him (cast), but he was charging $40/100 + shipping and he later upped it to $50. When I saw a pound of recycled lead piping cost me $1 and I could get a bunch of bullets from that, and I didn’t like the Lee design as I don’t need that much lube and I wanted a wider meplat. So I went to Accurate Molds and worked up several designs.

What I have found with both revolvers is that they seem to have a more accurate powder charge that doesn’t seem to change despite the projectile I’ve used, which is close to 10 in my ROA and just 3 in my NMA. I will make a few modifications, one being to fill in the excess room with lead. Were it me I’d ream straight down to the bolt stops. If you merely went only as far as a ball it wouldn’t work for longer projectiles.

Judging by what little data we have I estimate that a weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E pushing my 195 grn bullet is likely in the 350-425 ft/lb range and the ROA with its favored (weighed) 38 grns and same bullet is probably 400-500 ft/lbs with some claiming in the 600’s but I believe that’s with deepened chambers and ClassicBallistix cylinders that claim an extra 5-10 grns.

The .45 ACP standard power stuff is pretty acceptable to me, especially with a heavier bullet. But having .45 ACP +P power is always nice. I’ve wanted a CB cylinder for a while now. Something like $250. I have to wonder if the cylinder plays any part in the accurate charge. If not all those cylinders would do is give me more bullet. As is my revolvers can share this modified bullet design making it pretty close to the max amount of lead I can get in there but keeping 1/16” away from the face to keep from gas cutting, a little for a cardboard punched over powder card, and additional space for powder charge variance (I typically use a powder measure).

For a long time I was at the range at least monthly. I only use my hunting loads. I started at 25 grns as it seemed that should achieve roughly warm .44 Spl performance and I felt that was the absolute minimum for hunting as a sidearm. I worked around looking for what was more accurate and stuck with that which was 30 and 35 grn settings. So this is all they’ve been fed for a good while. I’d estimate at least 400 shots in my NMA but also using my 170 grn version. My ROA easily has double that and some. I don’t believe in practicing with target loads.

Please report back after you ream your cylinder. I’ve been told the band reamer from Brownell’s works great but then I’ve heard a few say they’ve ruined there’s so it’s given me pause. I’d hate to ruin it.

[Ozark mike]

I ordered a cheap adjustable reamer its coming out of wy couldnt tell you about any of brownells reamers but i heard midway had some goodones i think it was here is what i found well crap i wont post the link cause its from evilbay but its just a h3 adjustable reamer 7/16-15/32 Close to $20 shipped. I believed they have a slight taper so im not sure if it will work for this but i have other crazy projects that it might be useful for we'll see

[rodwha]

Is this a hand reamer or one you attach to a press? Does it come with the appropriate pilot size for a Pietta?

[Ozark mike]

Just a hand reamer they will chatter if you dig off to far if you force em you will snap the shank off no pilot263876

[rodwha]

No pilot for a hand reamer? How do you know it’s straight?

What will you ream the chambers to?

[Ozark mike]

They self align
.453
Its just a experiment if it works im gonna get 2 more cyls if not then i buy a new cyl then figgure on doing somthin else. This is why i wanted to reline or have a .36 cal barrel bored but im kinda really poor so i decided to go this route

[rodwha]

Well, I’m like you in that I don’t have a lot of money to do all of the things I like, and a hand reamer is an inexpensive fix that could be used again. Do update once you’ve done this.

[Ozark mike]

If i could of got the lathe that i wanted and made a dro for it i would of used the flycutter type or a fluted speaking of a fluted you could turn down the last .5" of the reamer to current size voila cheap piloted reamer

[arcticap]

A poster on another forum used a similar hand reamer and had to trim 1/4" off the end to be able to ream deep enough.
He was able to finish 3 of 6 chambers while busting 3 of 6 reamer blades, but the results were good enough to shoot about a 2" group at 25 yards from those 3 finished chambers with round balls.

[Ozark mike]

Yep. I figured i might have to trim it. As far as busting blades you have to take it slow no drills no deep cuts.

[Ozark mike]

Well i finally remembered to update i went ahead and reamed the chambers they came out a little bigger than i had hoped 454. It shoots a sight better and seems to have more recoil decided to go out and bust rocks with it a little while ago since i havent shot it in a while still holding up good my only advice is take it slow and cut in small increments or it is easy to go over size.

[joatmon]

Did you have to trim the end to get deep enough?

[Ozark mike]

Nope it went more than deep enough for what i need just wish id of thought about the play in the blades cocking in the slot cause it opened up the holes just a hair bigger. So if ya do this set the blades @ .450 or less and measure a practice hole. Do not set the blades @ .452 because it may come out a little bigger from poor machining of the reamer

[Woodnbow]

Pietta Shooters Model has .456 chambers an dimensionally is the same as yours.

[Good Cheer]

Hey there Woodnbow,
That's an eye opener if the cylinder outside diameter is the same. I've been afraid of reaming chambers to over their barrels groove diameter because of thinning the outer walls. But, then again, I'd be wanting to shoot .45 caliber pistol and revolver molds. Something I had considered was reaming the front and leaving the rear thicker, same as was done with some early cannon designs.
Say, do you have numbers on the bore and groove diameters Pietta used with the .456 chambers?

[Woodnbow]

I’ll get back to you on that...

[Woodnbow]

Ok. The cylinder is 1.590” the wall between chambers is .041-.043 and the exterior wall is .062”-.064” this is for the second cylinder (a spare ordered from Dixie) the stock cylinder is 1.590” chamber walls .042” exterior wall thickness .060”. The bore is .441. I don’t have a way to reliably measure groove depth. Hope this helps!

[john.k]

if the chambers need only a few thou increase in dia ,no way would I touch them with a cheap(or expensive) adjustable reamer .......I would lap them out ,and it would cost virtually nothing......I might add,I have been a machinist and toolmaker for 60 years.And picked up a few clues along the way.