Anyone know about M71 Mausers?

[oconeedan]

I went to an estate sale yesterday and really liked this little rifle, so it followed me home. Now I need to learn a few things, as well as gather a mould, dies, brass.
Did they ever make a commercial or sporter M71? If not, this was very nicely sporterized by someone (which I think is the case). It is a 43 Mauser / 11x60 rimmed single shot. I will chamber cast to make sure, as well as look at the throat and bore measurements.
There is fine checkering around the wrist of the stock, obviously cut by hand. The barrel is about 20", and is shiny smooth as silk with sharp lands and grooves. It almost looks new!
The rear sight looks original military, the front looks factory made but has a silver blade instead of blued. Speaking of, the blueing is near 100 percent and the receiver, which was in the white, has patina. The front band is original, but I see no place for a cleaning rod to slip under it like some of the military rifle photos I have seen. The stock was probably shortened up front, but it looks original . Every part on this rifle has matching numbers, even the screws, so I know it was not pieced together.

My plans, I would prefer to use smokeless powder for mild or moderate loads, and would love to take a deer with it.

If anyone knows where I can get brass, I'm interested. So far, it looks scarce and expensive.

Thanks in advance for any help!
https://i.postimg.cc/4HNRM0WT/20200613-081017.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4HNRM0WT)
https://i.postimg.cc/18LPtJ3p/20200613-081028.jpg (https://postimg.cc/18LPtJ3p)
https://i.postimg.cc/McVwjVng/20200613-081042.jpg (https://postimg.cc/McVwjVng)
https://i.postimg.cc/gXpWyjRj/20200613-081051.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gXpWyjRj)

[oconeedan]

https://i.postimg.cc/YhDtcpcD/20200613-081057.jpg (https://postimg.cc/YhDtcpcD)
https://i.postimg.cc/VrFcKwBR/20200613-081112.jpg (https://postimg.cc/VrFcKwBR)
https://i.postimg.cc/w1s8SLQ3/20200613-081148.jpg (https://postimg.cc/w1s8SLQ3)
https://i.postimg.cc/w1s8SLQ3/20200613-081148.jpg (https://postimg.cc/w1s8SLQ3)
https://i.postimg.cc/sBddyxTm/20200613-081211.jpg (https://postimg.cc/sBddyxTm)

[uscra112]

Very nice job. Best I've ever seen!

The 71 was a single shot. In 1884 they created a repeater using a tubular magazine under the barrel. These are known as 71/84 model.

According to legend a significant number of NOS 71 and/or 71/84 were imported into Canada shortly after WW2. They were bought by hunters as a cheap alternative to more modern rifles. CIL produced a smokeless load for them, so they must have been pretty popular.

I have a near-mint 71/84, bought at a small local gun show in Michigan a couple of decades ago, and over the years have acquired some of it, along with a few dozen rounds of original Mauser ammunition, (black powder and paper-patched bullet.) Since the bore of my rifle is mint, I haven't actually fired any of it.

Do a Web search for >Mauser 71< and you'll find plenty of info.

Brass is difficult. Some years ago Huntington's had properly formed brass, which has a very thick rim. No longer available, people are forming it out of .45-90. The "naked" bullet diameter is nominally .446, and there are moulds available. I can't give you a smokeless load, though. Case capacity is pretty close to the .45-90, so if you can find handbook data for that you'll at least be close.

I have read that the rifles (in good condition) are quite accurate.

[corbinace]

Look at the bolt face. Is it flat or is there a step in it?
The step was factory, but the refinisher could have opened it up.
If it is flat, you can reduce the rim diameter of 45-90 brass and reform. I rthink I may have used a 45ACP sizer as a part of the mix.
The stepped bolt can still be done with the same brass, but needs a step cut on the back side of the rim to match bolt face.
The brass is a bit long as well.
Several molds available, but I am not close to the data at the moment. I had two molds done by Tom at Accurate.
.450" if I recall correctly. About 370 gr. Smokeless is doable. My 71/84 is pretty accurate.

Yours is a work of art. Congratulations.

[Gewehr-Guy]

That is one handsome little carbine, love the checkering style ! I have a 71/84 and make brass from Starline 45-90 , a bit undersized at the base, but works well. I did have to do a little lathe work on the rims though, you could even try a 45-70 case and see if your bolt head accepts it, I have even used them in my 71/84 after reducing the head dia. , not sure about a 71 though.

[uscra112]

Jeeeez! I just looked at Gunbroker. The asking prices for original 71/84s took my breath away! Ditto original ammo!

Have a look anyway. There's a vendor selling the correct paper-patched bullets.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866763659

And Lee has dies. They call it the .43 Mauser.

[smithnframe]

Very nice!

[oconeedan]

Thanks for all of your comments so far, I am eager to hear more!303
But looking at photos of brass, the bolt face is not what I was expecting. Am I mistaking, the brass has a tapered rim similar to a 303 or 7.62x54?
https://i.postimg.cc/zL7kXPJB/2020-06-13-19-02-17.jpg (https://postimg.cc/zL7kXPJB)

[skeettx]

The proper base brass has the Mauser A Base

https://www.buffaloarms.com/43-mauser-cases-11-15x60r-43mauser

https://www.buffaloarms.com/43-mauser-11-15x60r-lee-2-die-set-lee90806

https://www.buffaloarms.com/446-340-grn-fn-lyman-1-cav-mould-446110-lym2640110

[hpbear101]

I have a 71 I got last fall. I use 45-90 brass sized in a lee die, you will be using the shoulder for head space so size a little at a time until the bolt just closes. They are a little long (about .003 IIRC) but worked fine in my rifle at the 45-90 length so I didn't bother trimming. If you don't have a die you can use a 30-06 or 270 die to size the neck down for fireforming. I turned the rims down in a lathe, then rounded the edge off with a file to make it easier for the extractor to slide over the rim. They are a little small in base diameter so they will bulge a little but work fine. Another option is belted magnum brass (.458 WM, 300WM, 338WM etc), I found 458 to be easiest. Turn the belt off in a lathe size them to headspace on shoulder, and trim to length. They work fine in the single shot but will not work in 71/84, theres not much of a rim so occasionally your extractor may slip off the "rim". It all sounds worse than it really is but it might be worth it to many to buy more expensive correct brass.

These were designed for a paper patched bullet, and my barrel was around .457 however a bullet that large wouldn't chamber. I took some Lee 45-70 405 hollowbase bullets and sized them down to .451, even those were hard to chamber so I would run the loaded cartridge back into the 30-06 or 270 die to size it down, they shot pretty good. I eventually bought a accurate 45-370Y mold which is a heeled bullet which allows chambering. If I had it to do over I would order the same mold but specify a .448 heel shank as the .443 is a little loose in a 45-90 case necked down (I remedy it by sizing the case mouth in a 30-06 die before expanding the neck for bullet seating). 5744and IMR 4198 are probably the two most common powders you will see listed for the .43 Mauser.

Beautiful little carbine you got!

Tom

[MT Chambers]

The carbines that I find all have full length (Mannlicher type) stocks, beautiful guns and what a delight to carry, I would rather carry it than some of the dumb guns we had to carry in the Army (Canadian).

[Gtek]

I believe it to be called an A Base. Bertram makes brass, Midway-$73/20, Graf & Sons $68/20. The original ammo has a .513" body forward of rim, belted magnum / 45-90 brass can be turned but are in the .510" body area and will form forward of cup reading many have used with acceptable results. Will work in the single shot 71' due to not having an ejector, the 71/84 ejector must be modified for flat rim based brass. I have made a when I get there retired pile with two of each with dies, molds and brass of all kinds mentioned above. I am probably going to go Holy Black with mine, closed ignition and removable bolt and no reason to remove from stock, easy clean.

[sharps4590]

I can't speak to the rifle but as for the cartridge, I've been shooting the 11.15 X 60R for over 25 years. It's much like the 43 Egyptian, Spanish and our 44-77. Mine is in a double rifle and to get the barrels to regulate I ended up using the Lyman bullet. RCBS makes an excellent bullet mold for hunting and no doubt Tom at Accurate Molds makes several that are excellent. The cartridge is a thumper, not a lot different from our 45-70 when loaded with 375-400 gr. bullets at around 1200 fps.

As was mentioned, Buffalo Arms has the brass or, does most of the time. I didn't know Midway and Graf's carried it as well.

[1Hawkeye]

Nice find,I think Lyman has loading data in the cast bullet hand book for the .43 and they still make a mold for it.

[oconeedan]

Thanks for all of the information, I knew this was the place to ask!

I don't have a lathe, so I may just need to "bite the bullet" and buy the brass. After my wallet recovers from buying the gun.

Thanks, Dan

[oconeedan]

Wait...now that I removed the bolt and put a 45-70 brass to the bolt head, I see now that it is flat. The rim of the 45-70 may be a little small, as in both width and thickness. I doubt the thickness would be an issue.

So now, I'm wondering if the proper 43 Mauser brass would fit ? As Corbinace said above, maybe I can make 45-90 brass work.

[444ttd]

we need a drool smiley!!!!!!!!

very nice rifle!!!!!!!!!!

[Streetwalker]

Our Range Master has a 71/84 that he uses for our CMP matches. He uses a cast lead bullet weighing approximately 365 grains over 15 gr. of Unique. He scores quite well with it and the holes in the target stand out like a sore thumb..a nice feature to have when looking through the spotting scope to see where your bullet hit!

[oconeedan]

I'm hoping I got lucky, it looks like a nice fit of this 45-70 brass to the bolt head. It looks like someone has machined this bolt head for flat rimmed brass. I'm sure the rim is thinner than 43 Mauser, so I am thinking I'll get some 45-90 brass, form it, and head space off the shoulder.
https://i.postimg.cc/nCJGjmPD/45-70-fit-to-bolt-head.jpg (https://postimg.cc/nCJGjmPD)

[Gtek]

I have a box of 1887 dated ammo sitting in front of me now and every rim measures .585" and body forward of rim lands at .513". Maybe go back and look at how bolt face interacts and sits into chamber, your bolt head looks just like both my unmodified examples. There is (some) info out there and I have spent quite a bit of time chasing information on these rifles and this round. Admit not a round fired as of yet but wanting to gather all the info and materials so I could move into educated and prepared. I think you may be way ahead starting with 45-90 or belted brass for conversion.

[uscra112]

Noted above about chamber neck being too small to accept a groove-diameter bullet. This apparently was common practice in the paper-patch era. The original Mauser patched bullet was dead soft lead, swaged with straight sides, and was expected to obturate into the grooves on firing. This made it possible to fire many rounds without cleaning, which of course was a critical feature for a military rifle. the

[Texas by God]

Visual aid.
Have fun with that Mauser.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200616/75be1db199543c796ef42c388c4fa144.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200616/098bca2f86e7019244770f26ad63d685.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[oconeedan]

Gtek... you said "I think you may be way ahead starting with 45-90 or belted brass for conversion."
You lost me...you mean I am on a good track starting with 45-90 brass, or I am getting way ahead of myself and should try original brass first? Also, if my bolt face looks like your unmodified bolt face, then I guess it is unmodified. I expected a funky bolt face to mate with the funky brass of the 43 Mauser.

uscra112...thank you. I did a chamber casting and will consider paper patching. I have never paper patched before, and maybe it is something I need to try.

Texas by God...thanks for the comparison photos.

[Gtek]

Spending the big money for correct brass certainly would be the easiest way to start. Alternative being the 45-90 or belted or smaller body 45-70 and all these requiring a lot of detailed time consuming exercises in brass conversion.

[oconeedan]

Thanks Gtek. At first I thought my bolt face had been modified, and I had no choice but to make brass. Now I see maybe that isn't true, and I will start looking for brass. But first, just one, to see if it fits, chambers, ejects.
Thanks for your input. About to post in the swap section and see if I can buy or borrow a piece of brass.
Dan

[mazo kid]

I make my own brass from 45-90, and have 2 molds that were made for the rifle, an RCBS and a Lyman. PM me, I could send you a case or 2.

[oconeedan]

Mazo kid, thanks for your offer. I have one on the way already. Thanks to everyone!

[David LaPell]

A good video on how to make brass for the 11mm Mauser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Lj51cgtVs

[mazo kid]

I use the Lee 43 Mauser die set to form and load my trimmed brass. I have a couple boxes of original CIL/Dominion ammo, also several fired brass that I used to set my trimmer for length.

[uscra112]

The shoulder being so small and shallow, I rather think that it will set back on the first firing by the amount of the difference in rim thickness. Not a lot you can do about that. I want to assume that using pistol primers and opening the flash hole up to maybe .100" will help. Works for my .35 Remington, anyway.

[oconeedan]

Thanks everyone, and excellent video David, thanks!