New to reloading the 44 spl, do I need to work up to the "Skeeter" load?

[Shaner87]

I will be shooting a NM Bisley Blackhawk 44spl.

Is it safe to just load up the skeeter load and shoot? I know it is over SAAMI, but I also know 44 spl SAAMI is rather light for my sixgun in particular. At some point I would be interested in trying the keith load, and since that is at the upper end of what most experts say is the limit, I would of course work up to that. But does one need to do so with the Skeeter load of 7.5 unique under a 255 gr keith?

Thank you in advance for any knowledge passed down.

[Shaner87]

Follow the published loads to the letter not some 50 year old recipe powders have been reformulated over the years without the pressure equiptment your shooting in the dark. You may not see pressure signs until it's to late

I don't want to seem argumentative, however I am not talking about some load that I found in grandads ol box of reloading materials. I am talking the most recommended load for 44 spl, even today. It has been loaded over and over again.

Also, all the research I have done points that SAAMI specs for 44 spl are intentionally low due to cheap 100 year old revolvers still on the market, and that there are revolvers that can exceed, as long as it is done mindfully and carefully.

[AnthonyB]

Shaner87, I have a thousand of the 7.5 Unique and H&G 503 loaded in Starline brass. Your revolver will take them just fine. That USED to be my favorite 44 Special load, but when these are gone I will be lowering that load with a lighter bullet and/or lower powder charge. My recoil tolerance has changed and the Skeeter load is more than enough for casual shooting for me. If I remember correctly, that was running over 925fps from my 4 5/8 inch Blackhawks.
Tony

[Larry Gibson]

I do have pressure measuring equipment and since there is no night shooting on the range I use I'm not "shooting in the dark".

I have pressure tested Skeeter's 44 SPL load [7.5 gr Unique, both Alliant and Hercules, under several different 240 - 258 gr SWCs including the Lyman 429421 and the RCBS 44-250-K with 10 shot tests of each. The average pressure ranged from 19,000 to 24,700 psi. The psi variation with each bullet was more a result of the bullet seating depth than of the weight of the bullet. The 24,700 psi average was with the Lee 240 SWC seated to and crimped in the first lube groove. The average psi for the Lyman 429421 (258 gr) was 21,000 psi. The psi for the RCBS 44-250-K (255 gr) was 23,000 psi.

Never hurts to start low and work up to any load so whether to work up or just load up some "Skeeters" is up to you. I've not had a single problem with Skeeter's 44 SPL load in any modern made 44 SPL I've shot it in, especially modern made Ruger and Uberti SAs, but that's me. Again the choice is yours.

[AnthonyB]

Larry;
Do you remember the velocities you were getting? I remember mine were faster than expected from the short barrel, but I have slept since then. I could very well be wrong. But I don't think any paper target in AL will walk away from a 245 grain(ish) bullet at 900 fps.
I have not used the Keith load in 44 Special, having seen no reason for it for my purposes.
Tony

[Shaner87]

Thank you to all.

I'll probably load a few lower power rounds to walk it up, but I'm glad I'm not crazy in thinking of going ahead with just the skeeters.

[Shaner87]

I do have pressure measuring equipment and since there is no night shooting on the range I use I'm not "shooting in the dark".

I have pressure tested Skeeter's 44 SPL load [7.5 gr Unique, both Alliant and Hercules, under several different 240 - 258 gr SWCs including the Lyman 429421 and the RCBS 44-250-K with 10 shot tests of each. The average pressure ranged from 19,000 to 24,700 psi. The psi variation with each bullet was more a result of the bullet seating depth than of the weight of the bullet. The 24,700 psi average was with the Lee 240 SWC seated to and crimped in the first lube groove. The average psi for the Lyman 429421 (258 gr) was 21,000 psi. The psi for the RCBS 44-250-K (255 gr) was 23,000 psi.

Never hurts to start low and work up to any load so whether to work up or just load up some "Skeeters" is up to you. I've not had a single problem with Skeeter's 44 SPL load in any modern made 44 SPL I've shot it in, especially modern made Ruger and Uberti SAs, but that's me. Again the choice is yours.

Have you ever tested the Keith load of 17 gr of 2400?

[azrednek]

Have you ever tested the Keith load of 17 gr of 2400?

Not exactly testing it properly. When I first started hand loading in the early 70’s I put Elmer’s pet load I read in Guns & Ammo in a Charter Arms Bulldog. Due to a rookie mistake I loaded what was then called a Herters Half Jacket not a cast lead bullet. Fortunately I only blew the ejector rod loose, bent the cylinder crane and about a week for my hand to stop hurting. I don’t recall the load other than using 2400.

Back in the 70’s there wasn’t an internet and my only mentor is what I read in gun rags. Not me but a 1970’s shooting bud had some bad experiences loading the tri and duplex loads that were appearing in gun rags. He cracked the cylinder on a Dakota 45 Colt. We weren’t smart enough at the time to know backed primers was a dander signal. I also had a bad experience back then with 38 Super but it turned out to be a misprint in a Speer manual.

[rintinglen]

Now I specifically exclude The Charter Arms Bulldog from this discussion; I have seen two shot into junk status from repeated use of heavy loads, and i would also exclude the 44 Spl Smiths made prior to 1920 and the Spanish copies thereof, but otherwise, if a new, full size, 44 makes its way into my house, it will likely start (and end) with the Skeeter load. I have fired thousands of them and am convinced that a revolver that won't shoot that load, won't shoot period. For lighter loads, I use an NOE wadcutter over 4.5 grains of red dot, but if all I had to shoot in the world was a 44 Special and Skeeter loads, I'd be happy.

[Walks]

If you're young and have good hands, you will still wear out before that particular model of SA will.

I fired several 1,000 of the "Skeeter" Load thru Colt SAA's and a New Frontier w/o a problem. But that was 40yrs ago.
These days I stick to my old Cowboy Shooting Load. But If I were ever fortunate enough to be able to "Woods Walk" again. the "Skeeter" Load would be my choice.

[azrednek]

I have a Rossi model 720. It’s a 5 shot 44 Special. It’s a heavy frame and I’ve run plenty of hot 44 Special loads through it. Been about 5 years since I loaded 44 Specials and best I recall I was loading 44 Specials with a generous helping of HERCO. I’ve also run 10 rds of Buffalo Bore through it without any problems. The Buffalo Bore has a warning on the box not to be used in Charter Arms. Despite the reputation of Rossi revolvers. The quality of the model 720 is on par with a Smith & Wesson.

Just in case you’re interested here’s a short and somewhat amusing YouTube review of the Rossi.
https://youtu.be/n6Z8mdtP5Cg

[azrednek]

Now . For lighter loads, I use an NOE wadcutter over 4.5 grains of red dot, but if all I had to shoot in the world was a 44 Special and Skeeter loads, I'd be happy.

My plinking load is similar. Shooting a home cast, now discontinued Lee button nose wad cutter with 5.0grs of Bullseye. Pleasant load I could shoot all day long without flinching or fatigue. Most my 44 Special shooting the past 4-5 years is with a S&W 24-6 with 6” barrel. The N-frame S&W handles Elmer’s load shooting a hard cast, gas checked 245gr semi-wadcutter with ease. I carried the load confidently on an unsuccessful Javalina hunt.

[Rodfac]

New to reloading the 44 spl, do I need to work up to the "Skeeter" load?
I will be shooting a NM Bisley Blackhawk 44spl. That load is my go-to with all three of my Ruger Flat Top .44 Specials, (two 4-5/8" and one 5-1/2") and a Smith M24 with 6.5" bbl. I'd recommend reviewing Larry Gibson's post on pressures if you have any questions, though.

Accuracy with that load, through those three guns, has been outstanding with Lyman's 429421 and 429215 GC & 429244 GC sized 0.431". All three of my guns have 0.430"-0.431" throat diameters and one, the SS one, has some thread constriction. The GC's on the latter two bullets preclude leading in the constriction. I use 50-50 lube and cast from ACWW + 1-2% tin as needed for fill out.

If you have a .44 Marlin carbine, I'd recommend 429215 GC at 0.431", which feeds nicely and gives great accuracy without leading. It's my deer bullet as a matter of fact. Skelton's load (7.5 gr of Unique with this 225 gr bullet) when paired with 429215 GC feeds great in the Marlin when put up in Special brass. It's a 950 fps load in my 4-5/8" bbl'd Rugers and I'd estimate 1250 fps from my 20" bbl'd Marlin. I use it for deer inside 75 yds here in KY.

Pic below is the SS Ruger Flat Top .44 Spl, with some home made stocks I did up while sequestered these past two months. YMMv and HTH's Rod

https://i.postimg.cc/yYvm6HK9/44_Spl_new_stocks.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Petrol & Powder]

For the OP, I think you could start, and in all likelihood, Finish; with the "Skeeter" load in that Balckhawk.

The Blackhawk is more than strong enough. Most modern guns in 44 Special are easily capable of handling the "Skeeter" load (7.5 grs of Unique with a roughly 240-258 grain LSWC). I also agree completely with everything rintinglen wrote in post #9.

[Thumbcocker]

Just get a pound of power pistol. 8.0 grains gets Skeeter load performance with standard pressure and great accuracy.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry;
Do you remember the velocities you were getting? I remember mine were faster than expected from the short barrel, but I have slept since then. I could very well be wrong. But I don't think any paper target in AL will walk away from a 245 grain(ish) bullet at 900 fps.
I have not used the Keith load in 44 Special, having seen no reason for it for my purposes.
Tony

Out of several revolvers with 4" or 4 3/4" barrels Skeeter's load with the 252 - 258 gr RCBS or Lyman SWCs ran 850 - 860 fps. With the 240 gr 429360 or commercial cast velocities ran 900 -925 fps.

In 5 1/2 or 6" barrels the velocity of each picked up 20 - 30 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

Have you ever tested the Keith load of 17 gr of 2400?

No, not yet. Some years back, before I was pressure testing, I settled on 16 gr 2400 under either the Lyman or RCBS "Keith" bullet as my "heavy" load for the 44 SPL. Subsequently I've found the measured psi is very acceptable in modern SAs with a velocity of 1000+ fps in 4 - 6" barreled revolvers.

The heavier "Keith" 2400 loads in the 44 SPL were discussed on a recent thread. I will probably conduct a pressure test from 16 to 18.5 gr(?) Alliant 2400 some time soon. I have to generate some WRA 44 SPL brass as all mine is loaded right now. I want to compare the PSI with the thinner WRA cases of the kind Keith probably used vs new Starline cases.

[onelight]

Larry I am looking forward to hearing how those 2400-44 special loads test . If you have starline brass it would sure be informative to know the difference in pressure with the same charges .
Thank you for all the great info you share with us .

[G50-70]

Most of my .44 spec loads over the years have been the Skeeter Load. I now have some power pistol and will be trying that in 8 gr range, mainly to see if there is an accuracy benefit.

Larry, I too am looking forward to your 2400 test results.

Rodfac, very nice grips. If I may ask what type of wood.

[azrednek]

The heavier "Keith" 2400 loads in the 44 SPL were discussed on a recent thread. I will probably conduct a pressure test from 16 to 18.5 gr(?) Alliant 2400 some time soon. I have to generate some WRA 44 SPL brass as all mine is loaded right now. I want to compare the PSI with the thinner WRA cases of the kind Keith probably used vs new Starline cases.

Larry, thinking back trying to rattle my grey matter. I seem to recall reading something in Keith’s column in Guns & Ammo. About him beefing up the 44 Special with the old balloon head brass. Wish I could recall the details but it was something I read in the early 70’s and my memory like the ol’grey mare it ain’t what it used to be.

Just thinking out load on the keyboard. I imagine with the higher capacity in a balloon head cartridge. Elmer’s 44 was likely a S&W with a recessed cylinder. Duplicating his load in today’s S&W revolvers would likely border on dangerous. Probably not a problem in a Ruger.

I also very much appreciate you sharing your results. So in case I miss it, THX in advance.

[Three44s]

As I recall, Elmer wrote that once the .44 Mag came out he saw no need to hot rod the .44 Spl.

The ballon head case afforded more boiler room and thus he upped the charge in his specials as I recall.

I would estimate that his reference to “hot rodding” involved the magnum type loads utilizing then Hercules 2400 rather than the Skelton loads of mid weight charges of Unique (7.5 gr.)

Three44s

[ddixie884]

Larry, I too am looking forward to the .44spl 2400 test and comparison. Thanx for your time and for sharing your real info from your research.

[Rodfac]

G50-70, the grips on that SS Ruger are from a piece of "black & white" ebony by my cousin up in NYS. He's a recurve bow maker in Buffalo and used some of it for the grip. The finish is tung oil...multiple coats. Best Regards, Rod

[G50-70]

Rodfac. Thanks for the info. Again, very nice looking grips.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Well, don't be afraid to try other loads too. I like 4.8 gr. titegroup under that Keith boolit. I did try that hunter load. Only one shot though. Took the rest of them apart.:!:

[JoeJames]

I have very carefully worked up the most accurate 240 gr. swc loads for my 4 1/2 Lipsey Ruger NM Blackhawk. But since I do not try to emulate 44 Magnum loads in it, but run about 900 fps, I cannot really contribute much to this thread. Let me know if you want to try the most accurate loads I have found with Unique.

[Iwsbull]

Not to hijack but I would love to know some of the more accurate loads. I am just looking for accurate loads that I can maybe hunt with up to 50 yards or so and I have magnums for hi velocity loads and longer ranges.

[sharps4590]

I bought S&W 696 within a couple months of when they came out. I think that was in the mid-90's. Off and on I've looked for an accurate load for that revolver ever since and NEVER found one!!. Two weeks ago I came across a can of W-231 in my powder magazine. It came in a bulk purchase I made several years ago and I forgot I had it. I had never loaded the first cartridge with 231. I figured what the heck, it can't shoot any worse than everything else I tried. I was pleasantly surprised when 5.8 grs. under the 429421 shot into less than 2 inches at 25 yards, benched. I've since shot about 100 rounds of that load now and it's always hovered around 2 inches. It also worked as well in my Freedom Arms Mod 97 under the RCBS 45-255.

[Larry Gibson]

Not to hijack but I would love to know some of the more accurate loads. I am just looking for accurate loads that I can maybe hunt with up to 50 yards or so and I have magnums for hi velocity loads and longer ranges.

Skeeter's load will serve you well.

[curioushooter]

There are four loads I like in 44 special. These are loads for heavy 6-shot revolvers (N-Frame Smiths and Ruger Blackhawks) only or anything in 44 Magnum. I cast all solid bullets with 96-2-2 and all HPs with 16:1 and use carnuba blue and CCI 300 and Starline.

I very much like the so-called Skeeter load which was actually discovered by Keith: 7.5 grains of Unique and a ~255 grains SWC. I prefer the H&G 503 and the 429244 to the 429421. The H&G 503 seats forward of the 429244 and the 429421 if crimped in the groove and all being the same weight I pretty much take a load for the 244 or the 421 and apply it. I've never had a problem. In all cases this load does just under 1000 FPS in my 6.5" S&W 624. At short ranges this I would think would be plenty for all but the largest of deer. It is a very accurate load for me and pleasant to shoot. I like it best with the 503. Pearce's data takes it up to 8.5 grains with the 421 under 22kPSI. I have found that 8 grains with the 421 is the most accurate load to date in my 624 (shot a pair of 1.5" 3 shot groups under field conditions at 50 yards). I have not tried it with the H&G 503 yet.

I also like the modern Skeeter load which is 8 grains of PowerPistol using a 255 grain SWC. This is actually within SAMMI spec according to Alliant and Brian Pearce. It basically equals with external ballistics of the original Skeeter load. I've worked this load up to 9 grains of PowerPistol where it just reaches 1100 FPS in my 624. This load is still under 25,000 PSI according to Pearce and would be fine in a Blackhawk or N-frame. My only gripe is that this fills approximately half the available space in the case and a double charge could be theoretically possible. I have not observed any detrimental performance, however. It is no cleaner than modern unique, but meters a little nicer. For some reason it has never matched the outstanding accuracy I saw with unique however.

I like the full-throttle Keith load alright. That is 17 grains of 2400 with the same bullet. It certainly does what it is supposed to and it clocks well over 1200 FPS in my 624 (usually around 1250). It is a bit reminiscent of 44 magnum recoil (which I dislike) though and 2400 I find disagreeably sooty. It is by no means a pleasant load. I always shoot them last for this reason because my accuracy will be trashed after a cylinder full. I find myself shooting it less and less. I have reduced it to 16 and 16.5 grains, too, and these work well, too. My bullets always cast up a little heavier than what Pearce's data states so I feel good backing off a little. Accuracy was better with the 16.5 grains.

A load that I find is a good compromise is ~12 grains of Blue Dot to an absolute max of 12.5 with, you guessed it, with a ~255 grain SWC. This load clocks just under 1200 in my 624 and is not quite as brutal and is much cleaner. I reduce the charge from 12.5 to my comfort. I've since settled on 12 grains for around 1150. This was from Brian Pearce's data from the 429244 where he maxed it at 12.5.

I've found any data used with the 250 grain weight class SWC can be applied to the 429215 and it will basically send it ~100 FPS faster. The Blue Dot load clocks ~1300 in my 624 with the 429215. I have a friend who has shoot numerous deer with a 44 mag load using the 429215 and some charge of fast powder that put it right at 1100 FPS. He claims it has never failed to pass through. This is easily achievable with 44 special. Power Pistol and Unique will both do it. I do not like 2400 with the 215. Too slow. Unique and Blue Dot are better powders.

I highly recommend searching for Pearce's articles. One is online right now for free (https://www.handloadermagazine.com/44-s-w-special-p) and not a copyright infringement. I paid some ridiculous 20 bucks for that data a year ago!

A powder that I think has potential but I have found very little data for (and that data is not the best) is Herco. It is bulkier and slower than Unique but similar being a flake type powder, old, and basically a shotshell powder. Taffin has data going up to 10 grains of Herco with a 429421 but he states not pressure data. So I have never tested it myself. I would be curious what Quickload with throw up as a max charge of Herco for a 429421 at 25 kPSI max.

[ddixie884]

Me too...........

[curioushooter]

Just get a pound of power pistol. 8.0 grains gets Skeeter load performance with standard pressure and great accuracy.

I've found this to be true. It is even listed on alliant's website. For some reason it is not quite as accurate as the 7.5 of Unique even with the same bullets in the same gun the same day and time. Not wildly different. I did a test where I worked 7.5-8.5 of Unique vs 8.0-9.0 grains of PP. 8.0 grains of Unique produced outstanding groups that no other charge/bullet combo I've ever tried has yet matched. I'm pretty close to settling on 8.0 grains being my go-to load but I've never tried Herco which seems like it would work well.

[onelight]

I have very carefully worked up the most accurate 240 gr. swc loads for my 4 1/2 Lipsey Ruger NM Blackhawk. But since I do not try to emulate 44 Magnum loads in it, but run about 900 fps, I cannot really contribute much to this thread. Let me know if you want to try the most accurate loads I have found with Unique.
I would like to hear what load works for you.
Thanks.