Case gauges for 45ACP

[AggiePharmD]

So I'm finally gonna start reloading for 45ACP. First autoloader reloading attempt. I know this headspaces off the case mouth and thought I might better work with a case gauge at least for a bit. Using coated cast boolits of .452". Which case gauge are you using for .452" boolits? I've noticed a couple options specify .451".

TIA

[William Yanda]

I'll watch this. My bet is that it may depend on your pistol.

[AggiePharmD]

Yep not sure. I kinda went off half cocked so to speak. Decided on cast vs plated bullets before I thought about possible throat issues. Guess we will see.

[tazman]

The best case gauge you can use is the barrel of your pistol.
Remove the barrel from your pistol and drop the cartridges into the chamber. They should drop in freely(otherwise known as the "plunk" test).
If they stop short of fully entering the barrel, you may not be completely removing the case belling. If your crimp is completely removing the bell, you may have throating or chamber issues.
If the cartridge plunks nicely, you should be good to go.

[BigAlofPa.]

I also would like to suggest a Lee factory crimp die.

[nueces5]

+1 Tazman

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Yep plunk test

[Burnt Fingers]

1. Your barrel.
2. I've had excellent luck with the EGW 7 hole 45 ACP gauge. I use it to check ALL loaded ammo. It helps me catch high primers and anything else.

Do NOT use a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. It will cause more problems than it solves.

[Bazoo]

You should use the plunk test when getting set up with a new bullet or changing settings on your seat die. But then, it's a pain in the butt to unload and disassemble your gun for that one odd cartridge that you need to test occasionally. I've had good luck with Wilson gages. They aren't a waste of money because they save plenty of time.

I've had lots of rounds that wouldn't plunk, but would chamber fully if fed from the magazine and the slide cycled on them. I keep them separate and shoot them first for plinking.

[AggiePharmD]

Sounds like it is down the middle on case gauge vs plunk test. All good info on that.

I've always used a Lee FCD on my pistol rounds (all revolver rounds) with no issues. Is there something different about autoloader ammo in general or 45 ACP specifically that causes issues?

[tazman]

Sounds like it is down the middle on case gauge vs plunk test. All good info on that.

I've always used a Lee FCD on my pistol rounds (all revolver rounds) with no issues. Is there something different about autoloader ammo in general or 45 ACP specifically that causes issues?

No. The Lee Factory Crimp Die works just fine.
Some people complain that it sizes the boolit down, but I have never had that experience with them. I use them on all my handgun cartridges both revolver and autoloader alike.

[Walks]

I favor a light Taper Crimp.

Use bbl for Plunk test.

How did we ever manage to handload Billions of rounds in the "olden days" without case gauges.

[onelight]

+2 Tazman , use your barrel

[Cosmic_Charlie]

+1 Tazman

+3 Tazman

If you have a match grade barrel you may be surprised how much taper crimp is needed.

[Ed_Shot]

No. The Lee Factory Crimp Die works just fine.
Some people complain that it sizes the boolit down, but I have never had that experience with them. I use them on all my handgun cartridges both revolver and autoloader alike.

I agree with using the Lee FCD for 45 ACP, however, I do not recommend it for 9MM.

[bangerjim]

No. The Lee Factory Crimp Die works just fine.
Some people complain that it sizes the boolit down, but I have never had that experience with them. I use them on all my handgun cartridges both revolver and autoloader alike.

Agree. I have "certain" handguns that need the LFCD and I use it all the time. I have one for every cal/gun I reload for.

One solution for one person may not fix YOUR problems with YOUR guns. You gotta mess around with what is out there and arrive at what YOUR guns like to eat. I know it took me several months to finally figure what my 1911 45ACP likes besides factory FMJ'.

45ACP is my LEAST favorite boolit to reload. I thought it was 9m until I got into the 1911's!!!!!!!!

I still need to order a 45 throat reamer.

banger

[Jkrem]

I use an L.E. Wilson .45 ACP max cartridge gage for cartridges I load for three different pistols that my son and my god son have. It works great.

[Martin Luber]

Don't worry about headspace, seat RN to specified oal, seat a swc so there is about 20 thou of shoulder above the casemouth.

[Martin Luber]

Most dies size the case so it will hold a .451 jacket but this is too tight for lead boolet and can damage them during seating, especially true for flat bases and soft swaged. Get a Lyman M die expander plug at .452, or just decap with a bigger die and size with the Lee FCD , minus the guts. Good luck

[Jniedbalski]

If you want to spend the money buy a Wilson case gage. If you are like me and every penny is tight use your barrel and plunk test. If you are worried about sizing down with the lee fcd just kiss the case mouth with it. It will get rid of the flair and not size your bullets down. I only had the fcd size down only really over size bullets. Also they would not chamber any way. On my 45 acp Springfield I had a problem with chambering. The first rounds I loaded for it about half would not chamber. Found out the bell on my case mouth was belled out still to much. I just took the fcd and just inserted the rounds only about .030 to .050 thou and it took care of the problem. I also full leingth some of the ammo in the fcd. It didint even touch the side of the ammo only the very end of the bell.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I shot thousands of rounds of .45 acp lswc hard cast boolits. Had a Springfield Trophy Match with a tight chamber. I was not casting but buying the boolits a few thousand at a time. Never any trouble with leading and plenty accurate. It has to be one of the easiest cartridges to hand load for. You have to crimp enough so that they will chamber reliably. Just don't over do it.

[megasupermagnum]

The barrel works just fine. The only place a gauge would ever make sense is if you are loading for many different guns. Even then, just use the tightest barrel for a gauge.

Start with the 45 acp classic, the H&G 68. If you will cast your own, I recommend this mold from Arsenal molds. http://arsenalmolds.com/products?product_id=63&limit=100

If not, try these for commercial cast. https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

At 1.250" OAL, these will feed and chamber in just about any gun that doesn't have a problem.

[DougGuy]

The Lee Factory crimp cannot "fix" ammo to work in a barrel with no throat. That's like taking an antacid to cure a sunburn.

The FCD has a carbide ring that just squeezes the outside of the brass so it's smooth and it swages out any bulges from seating a boolit in the case. Problem with that is that A. brass has springback in it, so there goes a goodly portion of your case tension. B. if you size to .451" it won't do much of nothing but make pretty the outside of the case, if you size to .452" it likely will swage down the boolit inside the case to a smaller diameter. If you powdercoat and your boolit is greater than .452" it will DEFINITELY swage it smaller inside the case. Problem with this is the boolit now is too small to seal in the rifling and you get leading or poor groups or both.

The PROPER thing to do, is to use a .452" boolit, with a taper crimp, and if it won't plunk at the published COA in commonly accepted loading manuals, then throat the barrel, don't seat deeper to compensate for the fact that the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to put any freebore in the barrel throat. SAAMI specs call for freebore, 90% of the modern made 45 ACP barrels have little or no throat, only a few have a little ring of freebore at the end of the chamber, and most of those the freebore is less than .452" in diameter so your .452" boolit will interfere with it.

They make barrels to shoot factory jacketed ammo and as long as it will chamber that, that's ALL the manufacturers are concerned with. WE as handloaders, who want to shoot cast boolits, have to set the barrel up to shoot cast, and this requires freebore greater than .452" in diameter, long enough to plunk our loads as assembled to published data. Same thing with a revolver cylinder, a one-time fix that always improves results, have yet to see a 45ACP barrel or cylinder that worked better or shot better before throating and performance was lessened after throating. It's common sense, make the barrel fit the boolit, NOT the other way around. The boolit is the important part, the gun is just a machined guide tool if you will, made to deliver the boolit somewhere in the vicinity of where the sights are aimed.

[megasupermagnum]

I've had no problems with the Lee carbide FCD. With bullets .452", the cases drop right into them, the sizing ring is generous for most bullets, and don't touch anything. That said, the sizing rings are pointless, and I often knock the carbide ring out of them just because it doesn't take much work.

[samari46]

Basically the "plunk" test is done to make sure the case head does not extend past the back end of the hood on your barrel. I have two 45's. One is a 1943 Ithaca 1911A1 and the other is a sort of custom Springfield Armory ( the new one not the original one). Both pass the plunk test with my loaded ammunition. All I shoot in them are the hard cast 230 grain round nosed bullet. Shot so well I never tried anything else. Our gun club used to do steel plate matches. Started out with the old Ithaca then when the Springfield Armory one came along that was all I used after that. Nothing beats the sound of a 230 grain RN bullet hitting the steel plates. Frank

[44MAG#1]

I guess one can call me a simpleton. I have a Kart match barrel that is several years old laying on my bench. It has a short throat compared to most. I use it as a gauge because if the round fits it the round will be okay in Kimbers, Springfields, Glocks and Rock Island Armory 45 Autos.
That is my take is to keep it simple.

[Martin Luber]

The FCD will swage the bullet if you use it as they intend, trouble is they didn't do the dimensions correctly. Might be ok for jacketed. Depending on brass brand, the wall thickness will vary so thick brass and a .452 bullet gets swaged. You can even count the lube grooves by feel. Fed is 11 mil wall, old Rem around 8, and Win typically 9. That's why I use it as a sizer only. Good luck

[Burnt Fingers]

The Lee Factory crimp cannot "fix" ammo to work in a barrel with no throat. That's like taking an antacid to cure a sunburn.

The FCD has a carbide ring that just squeezes the outside of the brass so it's smooth and it swages out any bulges from seating a boolit in the case. Problem with that is that A. brass has springback in it, so there goes a goodly portion of your case tension. B. if you size to .451" it won't do much of nothing but make pretty the outside of the case, if you size to .452" it likely will swage down the boolit inside the case to a smaller diameter. If you powdercoat and your boolit is greater than .452" it will DEFINITELY swage it smaller inside the case. Problem with this is the boolit now is too small to seal in the rifling and you get leading or poor groups or both.

The PROPER thing to do, is to use a .452" boolit, with a taper crimp, and if it won't plunk at the published COA in commonly accepted loading manuals, then throat the barrel, don't seat deeper to compensate for the fact that the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to put any freebore in the barrel throat. SAAMI specs call for freebore, 90% of the modern made 45 ACP barrels have little or no throat, only a few have a little ring of freebore at the end of the chamber, and most of those the freebore is less than .452" in diameter so your .452" boolit will interfere with it.

They make barrels to shoot factory jacketed ammo and as long as it will chamber that, that's ALL the manufacturers are concerned with. WE as handloaders, who want to shoot cast boolits, have to set the barrel up to shoot cast, and this requires freebore greater than .452" in diameter, long enough to plunk our loads as assembled to published data. Same thing with a revolver cylinder, a one-time fix that always improves results, have yet to see a 45ACP barrel or cylinder that worked better or shot better before throating and performance was lessened after throating. It's common sense, make the barrel fit the boolit, NOT the other way around. The boolit is the important part, the gun is just a machined guide tool if you will, made to deliver the boolit somewhere in the vicinity of where the sights are aimed.

Where's that LIKE button when you need it!!!!!!

I have a spare 45 ACP barrel on the bench. I can use that. But it's MUCH quicker to use the EGW 7 hole gauge. I'm loading for over a dozen 45 ACP pistols and I prefer to keep them in the safe when not in use.

I know if they plunk in that spare barrel and drop in and out of the EGW they will function in all my pistols.

Since my normal run of 45 ACP is a minimum of 500 rounds the gauge is nice. Today I'm going to run at least 1000 9mm. The 7 hole gauge is a lifesaver there.

[megasupermagnum]

While I've never had a carbide crimp did size anything down, here is the 10 minute fix if you do

#1 Buy a 1 1/4"-12 thread nut. It is not 100% needed, but makes life easy.

#2 Take the cap and crimp insert out of the die. Thread the empty die into the steel nut you bought.

#3 Find a punch just BARELY larger than the carbide sizer. If the punch is too big, you will be hitting the die, not the carbide.

#4 Lock the die, carbide facing down into a strong vice, by clamping onto that steel nut it is threaded into. Use a torch to heat up the carbide section of the die to release the loctite. It doesn't take much, maybe 15 seconds with a propane torch.

#5 Take your punch and a large hammer, good size framing hammer at a minimum, and give it a few good smacks from the top side. The carbide ring will come right out.

[tazman]

The FCD will swage the bullet if you use it as they intend, trouble is they didn't do the dimensions correctly. Might be ok for jacketed. Depending on brass brand, the wall thickness will vary so thick brass and a .452 bullet gets swaged. You can even count the lube grooves by feel. Fed is 11 mil wall, old Rem around 8, and Win typically 9. That's why I use it as a sizer only. Good luck

Interesting.
I must have been incredibly lucky as none of the FCD dies I have size down my boolits. Either that, or Lee is very inconsistent on the diameter of their carbide rings.

[Jniedbalski]

Only time I had the fcd size down cases where on my 38 loads. I was using .360 diameter bullets and it did it only on certain thick brass. I have also used in my 9 mm loads and it also only sized down very few only in certain brands of brass. The 9 mm I size my bullets at .358 for my Bretta and star. My high point needs .357 . Even using .358 bullets I have very few size the case. If you don’t want it to size down on oversized bullets just insert the shell into the fcd about .050 and just take out the bell

[onelight]

I like the factory crimp dies to and use them for all my auto pistol rounds .
But they don't fix the ogive of the bullet fit to the barrel and a case gauge won't always tell you if that bullet will chamber in a particular barrel thats why I use my barrels to check. I load them all to fit the tightest barrel.
What would be ideal is to have DougGuy fix the barrels but that is not the only solution.

[tazman]

I like the factory crimp dies to and use them for all my auto pistol rounds .
But they don't fix the ogive of the bullet fit to the barrel and a case gauge won't always tell you if that bullet will chamber in a particular barrel thats why I use my barrels to check. I load them all to fit the tightest barrel.
What would be ideal is to have DougGuy fix the barrels but that is not the only solution.

Very true.
If you only have one gun, the project is fairly simple. If you have several, your solution is the best one that doesn't cost a bunch of money.

[mjwcaster]

I have/had a Dillon case gauge for 45acp.
Only used once, not even sure where it is.

I didn’t have my pistol so I just used this nice new case gauge. Loaded rounds fit fine.
Went to shoot it and had one stick so hard into the rifling that it took a serious whack to open the slide.
Weird bullet ogive/step combined with non existent throat caused the issue. Round nose bullet with a step to full diameter. Other more experienced reloaders didn’t believe me until I actually showed them the bullet.

The fix was seat shorter/step about flush with case mouth to use up those bullets and then start casting my own.

Someday I will send DougGuy a batch of barrels to fix. There is a new Canik in the house which by reputation will need to be throated to feed cast, time will tell.

So I never used the case gauge again, just pick the barrel with tightest chamber/throat and load to that.


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