E85 gas

[RU shooter]

Well I just got a new to me truck a 2011 F150 and it's the first vehicle I've ever owned that is rated to use E85 gas . Question is besides being about 25 cent a gallon cheaper than regular are there any up and down sides to using it ? The engine is a 5.0L

[rancher1913]

if I remember correctly, it drops your mpg to the point it costs more to operate your vehicle.

[missionary5155]

Here in Peru 85 has been sold for years. I have never seen a spark plug get so carboned so fast as what 85 will do

[StuBach]

Second the MPG loss. Every mechanic I’ve ever talked to said the stuff seems cheaper till you realize the math makes you fill up more often thus more expense. It doesn’t become financially feasible till you start getting to a $.75-$1 price difference to unleaded.

[Finster101]

There is no real upside to E-85 in my opinion. The already mentioned reduced mileage will more than off set the cost. I'm not sure about Ford but GM vehicles need to be driven a minimum of 15 miles after switching from gas to E-85 or a no start can result from the injector pulse not being lengthened to supply enough fuel.

[RU shooter]

Don't sound like there's an upside at all with it, I'll just stick with regular gas then .

[redhawk0]

Your mileage will drop quite a bit (4-6 mpg).......don't try to run it in the winter if you live up north. Up here where we can sometimes be -10* to +10* the fuel won't burn hot enough to give you adequate heat for the cabin.

[EDIT] -what was I thinking...yikes...E10...my head was on backwards this morning....but the winter heat issue is valid.

redhawk

[Froogal]

Well I just got a new to me truck a 2011 F150 and it's the first vehicle I've ever owned that is rated to use E85 gas . Question is besides being about 25 cent a gallon cheaper than regular are there any up and down sides to using it ? The engine is a 5.0L

Our 2012 is rated to use E85, and we did try a couple tanks full when the truck was new. It ran good, mpg was a little low, but the truck was new and not broken in yet. We switched back to E10 and eventually the mpg got up to what we expected. E85 is not available everywhere, so we haven't tried it again. Just stayed with E10. Recently the price of gasoline has dropped to where there is very little difference in the cost of E10 or E85.

Since yours is a 2011, I will guess that it is already broken in, so I will suggest trying about 3 tanks full, keep track of the mpg, and then make some comparisons.

I have been using E10 in everything I own, or have owned for over 30 years now with NO issues of any kind, and no difference in mpg when compared to non-ethanol gasoline. Believe it or not, I own a 1940 Farmall tractor that runs quite well on E85.

[labradigger1]

E85, “the green gas”, made to offset fossil fuels. HA! Lower mpg, attracts water, eats hoses and seals not rated for ethanol, gums up quicker, made non ethanol gasoline more expensive! Doesn’t work well with fuel stabilizers so doesn’t keep well.
FWIW, my company truck 5.0 f-150 is e85 rated. 660 miles per tank on e90 (the normal blend now) vs 593 per tank on e85.
I only use REAL non ethanol gas for anything two stroke, mowers, tractors and gas equipment.

[JoeG52]

Your mileage will drop quite a bit (4-6 mpg)...its amazing that extra 5% of alcohol would drop it that much. (typical gas is about E90 anyway)....don't try to run it in the winter if you live up north. Up here where we can sometimes be -10* to +10* the fuel won't burn hot enough to give you adequate heat for the cabin.

redhawk

Typical gas may contain up to 10% ethanol. E85 is 85% ethanol, not 15%. E85 is a big waste of ethanol. I have also seen articles claiming that it requires more oil to produce than it saves when you consider the plowing, planting, spraying, harvesting, transporting to convert to ethanol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

[downzero]

E85 will clean your fuel system and has higher octane, which may have benefits depending on context.

[redhawk0]

Typical gas may contain up to 10% ethanol. E85 is 85% ethanol, not 15%. E85 is a big waste of ethanol. I have also seen articles claiming that it requires more oil to produce than it saves when you consider the plowing, planting, spraying, harvesting, transporting to convert to ethanol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

Yeah...I just realized this...had a major brain hemorrhage when I wrote that this morning.

redhawk

[Finster101]

E85 will clean your fuel system and has higher octane, which may have benefits depending on context.


I don't know about the cleaning part. It does have higher octane as it is mostly alcohol. I know a few guys supercharged cars with a LOT of boost using an E-85 tune. You just have to make sure your fuel system and injectors are big enough to deliver. Lean is bad juju on a supercharged car.

[Nobade]

That's pretty much the only legitimate use I've found for E85 - the anti knock is through the roof and you can make incredible power if you build an engine to take advantage of it. I recently encountered a Nissan 370Z that was putting out over 1000hp using E85. That car was quite an experience. But normal engines? Just say no.

[Petrol & Powder]

Ethanol produces fewer BTU's per gallon than the same amount of gasoline. Therefore you must burn more ethanol to produce the same amount of power; that's why higher amounts of ethanol in the fuel result in lower fuel mileage.

An octane rating is a measure that equates to the amount of heat & pressure a fuel can withstand before detonating. A fuel with a higher octane rating will NOT produce more power by itself. With all else being equal, an engine with a higher compression ratio will produce more power than one with a lower compression ratio. Unless you have a need for a higher octane rating, there's nothing to be gained by burning a fuel with a higher octane rating.
A good way to look at this is to picture a 10' high building and a ladder. If your ladder is 12' long, it is tall enough to reach the roof and a little extra. Buying a 20' ladder does not help you reach the roof better than the 12' ladder. In fact, the 20' ladder is heavier, more expensive and more difficult to transport. It is actually a hindrance. Buying a higher octane rating than you need is like buying a taller ladder than you need. It is a waste of money.

In addition to the reduced BTU's per a given volume, Ethanol is inefficient to produce. Fossil fuels must be burned to: plant, harvest and transport the grain to a facility to make the ethanol. Once at the facility some fuel must be burned to distill the ethanol. Once the ethanol is produced it is added to the gasoline and it reduces the potential energy of a given quantity of that gasoline.

As others have pointed out, ethanol has other drawbacks. One of the major problems with ethanol is that it has a tremendous affinity for water.

So, while we can burn ethanol to make power, it's not always the best fuel.

[EDG]

The real story is the use of ethanol is nothing but a subsidy for the large agri business companies that grow corn. No ethanol in gasoline reduces their market demand and they get less $$$ for their corn.

[MT Gianni]

I think there is a station in Montana that sells E-85. Google says, there is two both in West Yellowstone. Be cautious where you travel.

[Froogal]

I don't know about the cleaning part. It does have higher octane as it is mostly alcohol. I know a few guys supercharged cars with a LOT of boost using an E-85 tune. You just have to make sure your fuel system and injectors are big enough to deliver. Lean is bad juju on a supercharged car.

Yes. It will clean the fuel system. If you are ressurrecting an older vehicle that has been setting for awhile, E85 is the best for cleaning the gas tank.

[Petrol & Powder]

The real story is the use of ethanol is nothing but a subsidy for the large agri business companies that grow corn. No ethanol in gasoline reduces their market demand and they get less $$$ for their corn.

I can't say that I disagree with that.

Ethanol blended with gasoline was pitched to the American consumers as: A way to reduce America's dependence on foreign oil, A way to make cleaner burning fuel, a way to help farmers and a few other pitches.
I'm not sure its use helps reduce the overall amount of oil we burn because the process is so inefficient and the resulting fuel is less efficient.

As for reducing pollution - I'm not sure about that either. If you need to burn diesel in tractors and trucks just to make the stuff, and then you have to burn more fuel to make the same power for the end user; I doubt you're making less pollution overall.

As for subsidizing large scale agriculture, that is probably true to some extent. The government created a market where a market didn't exist.

[kerplode]

The real story is the use of ethanol is nothing but a subsidy for the large agri business companies that grow corn. No ethanol in gasoline reduces their market demand and they get less $$$ for their corn.

Truth bomb!

[RU shooter]

I think there is a station in Montana that sells E-85. Google says, there is two both in West Yellowstone. Be cautious where you travel.
It's pretty common around here in west side of Pa in a 20 mile radius of me I bet 10 or more stations sell it

[john.k]

Easily seen because big sugar and big starch/grain /beet is the driver behind adding ethanol ,and is the money behind political campaigns to include the stuff .........incidentally ,oil refiners/fuel producers hate the stuff because all the rusting seen in cars is magnified a millionfold when you are maintaining huge tanks where its impossible to keep water out ......the rust pitting in 3/8" plate inside storage tanks has to be seen .......we once got a load of replaced tank steel,smooth paint on the outside weather side ......pitted clean thru from the raw inside ......and the rust really took off while we had it stacked,making expensive scrap.

[rking22]

Never tried E85, with the degradation I saw with the 10% it seemed pointless. In a 96 GMC truck, 2003 Yukon, and 2002 Regal I saw a 10% reduction in MPG when they were fed 10% ethanol fuel vs real gas. That was over a 6 month period of commuting to work, same route. I decided to pay extra and fed the 96 truck on real gas for a month, increased MPG to the same as before using 10% stuff. Was not cost effective to pay the extra $$ for real gas but the degraded MPG was real. 10% added ethanol reduced my fuel economy by 10%. Now somebody got to explain to me how that helps our dependency on foreign oil! Pure feel good BS, and politicking!

[Idaho45guy]

I wish we could get regular non-ethanol fuel here. I haven't seen it since the 90's. Ethanol in fuel was one of the biggest boondoggles to come out of Washington, costing consumers billions of dollars over the years in increased fuel costs and damaged components.

I can buy premium non-ethanol fuel a couple of places, but it is nearly a dollar more a gallon, on top of our already stupid high gas prices.

[Loudenboomer]

Don't sell E-85 short. It does have it's place but probably not in your 7.8 to 1 compression ratio grocery getter. Modern fuel injection in flex fuel vehicles can get fuel air ratio correct on almost any blend of ethanol. The biggest problem is most cars don't have enough compression to run it efficiently. Depending on variables it starts running efficiently at about 11 to 1. I have made some serious power with E-85 at 12.5-13 to 1 in a naturally asperated drag car. The increased octane and cooling effect make it a very good fuel on boost too. Without proper compression most will be un happy with it.

[elmacgyver0]

Another scheme to get people sucking on the government teat through subsidies.
All about control.

[EDG]

A large percentage of modern cars have a 10 to 1 or higher compression ratio. The old low compression ratio engines are a thing of the past. The knock sensor on modern engines allows the computer to advance the timing until the engine pings once or twice regardless of the compression ratio or the fuel octane. Alcohol has less energy per pound so it will never give the kind of mileage you get with gasoline.
Alcohol dragsters produce so much HP because they can run a very high volume of fuel into the engine without detonation.


Don't sell E-85 short. It does have it's place but probably not in your 7.8 to 1 compression ratio grocery getter. Modern fuel injection in flex fuel vehicles can get fuel air ratio correct on almost any blend of ethanol. The biggest problem is most cars don't have enough compression to run it efficiently. Depending on variables it starts running efficiently at about 11 to 1. I have made some serious power with E-85 at 12.5-13 to 1 in a naturally asperated drag car. The increased octane and cooling effect make it a very good fuel on boost too. Without proper compression most will be un happy with it.

[tomme boy]

Iowa is the corn state. We USED to have some of the best pheasant hunting in the USA. Now you are lucky to even see one in a whole year. Now that GPS is letting the farmers get rid of fence lines and are plowing right up to the edge of every creek and river. Most waterways have been taken out. So now there is more soil erosion. And that is not even getting into every last inch is also tiled to funnel off all the water.

[cp1969]

I wish we could get regular non-ethanol fuel here. I haven't seen it since the 90's. Ethanol in fuel was one of the biggest boondoggles to come out of Washington, costing consumers billions of dollars over the years in increased fuel costs and damaged components.

I can buy premium non-ethanol fuel a couple of places, but it is nearly a dollar more a gallon, on top of our already stupid high gas prices.

Try this: puregas.org

[sigep1764]

Loudenboomer has it right.

Drag cars have used alcohol as fuel for years. The idea was a higher detonation point, allowing a higher compression ratio, which in turn means more fuel and more air in the combustion chamber making more power. An engine is a pump. The more fuel and and air you can get into that pump, the more power you get out of that pump. Down side is, more fuel went into that motor, reducing fuel mileage. Alcohol needs a different fuel to air ratio than gas does. Says gas needs a 12 to 1 ration of gas to air to maintain a non rich/non lean burn situation. Alcohol needs something along 8 to 1 alcohol to air ratio. Fuel mileage drops with this ratio.

Then there is the oxidation to consider. Alcohol rusts(oxidizes) steel and aluminum. This creates more wear on the engine. I will give that modern engines can have Nikasil coatings and the like, but they still won't stand the corrosive properties of alcohol for long.

Lastly, unless the ethanol gas mix is created using vehicles and machines that are running the ethanol gas mix, there is less savings in creating it. It is my understanding it was created because ethanol is a renewable source of energy, but it is negated is gas or diesel if used in its cultivation.

[samari46]

Basically you are paying more for less mileage and performance. Been using regular non ethanol gas for the last couple years in my truck and all my gasoline powered equipment. Generator,weedwhackers,saws and what have you. The guy who does my small engine repairs is the one who makes out and always has a steady stream of customers. Frank

[Idaho45guy]

Try this: puregas.org

Yeah, used that before. The nearest station that sells non-premium ethanol free gas is 70 miles away.

[Ozark mike]

Alcohol is nothing new ford wanted his vehicles to run on the stuff over a hundred years ago then Rockefeller bought Congress and ended that thought alky requires a higher compression ratio like propane to be economical and upgrade the chinesium rubber and a few tweeks to a carb maybe advance the ign a little and any old gas engine will run off the stuff. Pop quiz why don't diesels run off vegi oil any more
You guessed it politics. And the good ole union green back

[Petrol & Powder]

Alcohol is nothing new ford wanted his vehicles to run on the stuff over a hundred years ago then Rockefeller bought Congress and ended that thought alky requires a higher compression ratio like propane to be economical and upgrade the chinesium rubber and a few tweeks to a carb maybe advance the ign a little and any old gas engine will run off the stuff. Pop quiz why don't diesels run off vegi oil any more
You guessed it politics. And the good ole union green back

Sorry but that's not accurate.
Rockefeller created Standard Oil and made his money from selling kerosene. By the time automobiles came on the scene, oil was far cheaper to produce than alcohol. As electric lights and automobiles decreased the demand for kerosene and increased the demand for gasoline, the oil industry shifted its production to meet that demand. If Ford ever wanted abandon gasoline for his mass production cars, he sure was quiet about it.
There were no politics involved, just economics.

[Froogal]

Iowa is the corn state. We USED to have some of the best pheasant hunting in the USA. Now you are lucky to even see one in a whole year. Now that GPS is letting the farmers get rid of fence lines and are plowing right up to the edge of every creek and river. Most waterways have been taken out. So now there is more soil erosion. And that is not even getting into every last inch is also tiled to funnel off all the water.

The declining pheasant population has nothing to do with farming practices. I live in Iowa, on a small acreage, but directly across the road from me is a 100 acre field that has been in the CRP program for ALL of the 22 years we have lived out here. 20 years ago the pheasant population was alive and well with MANY roosters, hens, and even young ones. NOTHING has changed on that 100 acres, but the pheasant population is now down to just one rooster and one hen. The deer population is also down, but the quail are still thriving.

[Froogal]

Sorry but that's not accurate.
Rockefeller created Standard Oil and made his money from selling kerosene. By the time automobiles came on the scene, oil was far cheaper to produce than alcohol. As electric lights and automobiles decreased the demand for kerosene and increased the demand for gasoline, the oil industry shifted its production to meet that demand. If Ford ever wanted abandon gasoline for his mass production cars, he sure was quiet about it.
There were no politics involved, just economics.

Actually, in the early 1900s, there were more electric powered vehicles than gasoline powered in the cities. Recharging stations were strategically located.

[243winxb]

Ethanol removes water from the gas. No frozen fuel line in winters.

Ethanol bad for cartridge brass.

[Ozark mike]

Gm and firestone is the reason for the demise of the electric trolly

[Petrol & Powder]

Actually, in the early 1900s, there were more electric powered vehicles than gasoline powered in the cities. Recharging stations were strategically located.
Correct, but what does that have to do with alcohol, Henry Ford and Rockefeller ?

[cp1969]

Alcohols contain an oxygen molecule; gasoline does not. All internal combustion engines are limited by the amount of oxygen they can ingest; alcohol, having an oxygen molecule, increases the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber, so more fuel can be added. Nitrous oxide does the same thing; more oxygen, more fuel, more power.

IIRC, Firestone was tight with Ford, not GM.

[Ozark mike]

Alcohols contain an oxygen molecule; gasoline does not. All internal combustion engines are limited by the amount of oxygen they can ingest; alcohol, having an oxygen molecule, increases the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber, so more fuel can be added. Nitrous oxide does the same thing; more oxygen, more fuel, more power.

IIRC, Firestone was tight with Ford, not GM.

Im talking about the firestone detroit/gm scandal in the early part of the 20th century its well documented
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

[Ozark mike]

Correct, but what does that have to do with alcohol, Henry Ford and Rockefeller ?

Ford wanted his rigs to run on corn fuel remember he was a supporter of the farmer. Im certain this was taught in school. well it was In mine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1979/08/05/the-godfather-of-gasohol-ishenry-ford/ca98c17b-3112-4f80-b98a-7b06ed6a735b/

[Petrol & Powder]

Take note that the article was written by Hal Bernton, he has a bit of a pro-alcohol, anti-oil agenda. He's also a far left wing reporter in Seattle.

https://www.amazon.com/Hal-Bernton/e/B001KCKAWK%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

Oil was just far cheaper

[Ozark mike]

Im jus goin from memory that was just what google brought up + some others

[HATCH]

I had a 2002 Tahoe that was E85 rated.
I did run a few full tanks of E85 in it.

Typically my tahoe would get around 15 mpg in the city.
On E85 that would drop down to 10 or 11 at best.
Same driving habits.
The car would act the same regardless of the fuel I gave it.
So $.25 cents difference a gallon is not worth it.
You would break even if E10 was just $1 a gal.
But when you get up to $2 a gal for E10 and $1.75 for E-85 then its at the point that your losing money unless you want to just say you saved the environment.

[Petrol & Powder]

When compared to petroleum, alcohol has never been a serious contender.

It takes a significant amount of energy to make alcohol and the potential energy in a given unit of alcohol is less than other fuels.

If alcohol was the only option, we would make it work but it's not the only option. Petroleum is cheaper to produce and chemically stores more energy per pound. Even Brazil which went "All In" for ethanol in the 1980's has backed way off of that approach. While ethanol blends are mandatory in Brazil and they have the largest ethanol production capability in the world (helped by their climate, crop types, cheap labor and enormous land resources) they have recognized the need to keep petroleum in their lineup.

In the early days of automobiles, the distribution network of gasoline wasn't well developed. Gasoline wasn't always available so other fuels like Naphtha and Alcohol were sometimes substituted but they were never serious replacements for gasoline.

There's a great Ken Burns documentary, "Horatio's Drive, America's First Road Trip" that is based on the first cross country trip by automobile in 1903. It's well worth the time to watch it. One of the MANY problems Dr. Horatio Nelson Jackson faced was acquiring fuel.

[Ozark mike]

If i remember right alky is used in competition because it doesent burn as violent or as hot as gas

[tomme boy]

The declining pheasant population has nothing to do with farming practices. I live in Iowa, on a small acreage, but directly across the road from me is a 100 acre field that has been in the CRP program for ALL of the 22 years we have lived out here. 20 years ago the pheasant population was alive and well with MANY roosters, hens, and even young ones. NOTHING has changed on that 100 acres, but the pheasant population is now down to just one rooster and one hen. The deer population is also down, but the quail are still thriving.

You just proved my point. If they can't survive in that crp then where did they go? The amount of soil erosion in Iowa is alarming. Fence lines and waterways used to prevent a lot of this and gave the birds a place to nest and hide. Lots of small towns are having to drill new way deeper wells because of the water is no longer there. My old ladies parents have to have a new well put in because of the same thing. One of their neighbors has a spring that fed a small pond they had. It dried up. But yet the farmers put in more and more tile all around them.

[M-Tecs]

The declining pheasant population has nothing to do with farming practices. I live in Iowa, on a small acreage, but directly across the road from me is a 100 acre field that has been in the CRP program for ALL of the 22 years we have lived out here. 20 years ago the pheasant population was alive and well with MANY roosters, hens, and even young ones. NOTHING has changed on that 100 acres, but the pheasant population is now down to just one rooster and one hen. The deer population is also down, but the quail are still thriving.

I strongly disagree. A 100 acre plot (0.16 square mile) is highly impacted by the change around it or in it such as farming practices or even predators.

I have a cousin in south west ND. They cultivate over 10,000 acres of grain with an additional 3,000 acres of river bottom and pasture land . During the times were CRP is more profitable the amount of pheasants is unbelievable (unless you have seen it with your own eyes). It's impressive when you have 100's of pheasants in the air at one time.

When CRP is removed and replaced by fence to fence cultivation that provides no winter cover or food the pheasant population plummets as much as 90%. That cycle has been going on since the CRP program was started in 1985

I live in a mostly populated area on the edge of a 1,500 acre natural area. When had a very healthy pheasant and turkey population. The last two years the coyotes have taken over. Seeing deer, pheasants or turkey is now rare. The turkey flock went for about 70 birds to maybe a dozen.

IMHO to judge how farming practices impacts pheasant population you need to be looking at several counties or larger areas to eliminate minor variables that skew the results. A high skunk population will destroy both the pheasant and duck populations. Skunks love eggs and I have read studies that skunks in nesting areas eat 70% of the eggs.

[Froogal]

You just proved my point. If they can't survive in that crp then where did they go? The amount of soil erosion in Iowa is alarming. Fence lines and waterways used to prevent a lot of this and gave the birds a place to nest and hide. Lots of small towns are having to drill new way deeper wells because of the water is no longer there. My old ladies parents have to have a new well put in because of the same thing. One of their neighbors has a spring that fed a small pond they had. It dried up. But yet the farmers put in more and more tile all around them.

Tough winters with much snowfall, chronic wasting disease, and coyotes.

[William Yanda]

On the upside, you'll never need to buy drygas.

[Petrol & Powder]

On the upside, you'll never need to buy drygas.

OK , that's funny.

The problem is the water doesn't go away.
Water and gasoline don't mix.
Water and alcohol infinitely mix. In fact, they mix so well that the only way to separate them is to distill the mixture.

When you have a little bit of water in a gas tank and you add alcohol you are intentionally making a water/alcohol mix. The alcohol has such a strong affinity for water that the two substances will mix. Hopefully after combining the water and alcohol; the alcohol will still be the major component of the alcohol/water mix and the alcohol will burn. The water will just become water vapor and go out the tailpipe.
However, water doesn't burn so there's a limit to how much water can be tolerated in that alcohol/water mix. Plus it takes energy (heat) to convert that liquid water to steam and that cools the process. This is a desirable function under some high compression condition, such as water/alcohol injection in aircraft and race engines but it robs heat (energy) in other conditions.

[Cast_outlaw]

So sounds like for your daily driver it’s no good but for your hot rod/sports car/drag car it’s great for spg (smiles per gallon)

[Ozark mike]

thats why i been convering to diesel gas vehicles have become a pain in the neck for me. ( with the exception of my loadstar and gl1100) Finishing up a 72 beetle with a 1.6d out of a 82 rabbit and i get 55 mpg

[Hickory]

I guess it boils down to this, if you want economy, you have to pay for it.

One of the oxymorons of leftist living.

[Loudenboomer]

Speaking of Henry ford and burning alcohol reminded me of a ford factoid. Henry Ford had so many wood scraps left over from making the Model T that he started making Ford Charcoal. It became Kingsford Charcoal. https://www.kingsford.com/country/about-us/

[M-Tecs]

Speaking of Henry ford and burning alcohol reminded me of a ford factoid. Henry Ford had so many wood scraps left over from making the Model T that he started making Ford Charcoal. It became Kingsford Charcoal. https://www.kingsford.com/country/about-us/

I did not know that. Thanks for posting.

[tomme boy]

Mtec, we used to see 100-200 birds a day back before ethanol was mandated country wide. It was absolutely amazing sometimes as you get to the end of a ditch and have 10-15 birds explode at your feet.

Some people have just not been around long enough to have seen this. The old ladies parents have a 10yd buffer all around their property. They used to have lots of birds, not anymore. They also have what we call the rock mound. The bedrock is about a foot under the soil. So they can't plant anything there. It is about 40 acres in size and is filled with brush and all kinds of wild grasses. NO birds.

[RU shooter]

thats why i been convering to diesel gas vehicles have become a pain in the neck for me. ( with the exception of my loadstar and gl1100) Finishing up a 72 beetle with a 1.6d out of a 82 rabbit and i get 55 mpg
Had a 80 and 82 rabbit diesel great winter cars , barely enough power to spin the front wheels even in snow but best snow car I ever had and yes 50-55 mpg was the norm with the manual trans . I'd mix a gal of kerosene in when it got below zero .

[Petrol & Powder]

1980 VW Rabbit Diesel, perhaps the slowest car I've ever driven. I think if you pushed it out the back of a C130 at 10,000' you might be able to get it up above 85 mph :-o . But it was good in the snow until the snow was deep enough to start pushing the oil pan upwards. Once you reached that point, it was worthless.
You didn't need brakes in that car, if you took your foot off the throttle it just about stopped on its own. The clutch cable broke long before the clutch disk wore out :shock:

Never got 50 mpg, 40 was the norm but the engine was solid. It was a bear to start in the severe cold (it needed a block heater but didn't have one), One dead glow plug could be tolerated, 2 dead ones and starting got iffy. Change the oil & filter every 3K miles, replace the air and fuel filter every once in a while and it gave yeoman like service.
Unfortunately the rest the car fell apart before the drivetrain. Exterior door handles became increasingly rare items in junk yards, with the driver's door being the first on the endangered species list.

[Ozark mike]

My reasoning was the type1 is shaped like a air foil and has taller gears vs the rabbit which resembles a brick outhouse that maxes out at 80.
So far no trouble it was purpose built for long distance on the cheap and i didnt want to rebuild the ac motor every 90000 miles.
May swap in a naturally aspirated tdi with mechanical pump if i get the money and time.

[mozeppa]

and the reason it is 85% alcohol?.....15 % real gas is added for only one reason....to keep you from drinking it!:bigsmyl2:

[Texas by God]

I wonder does it give Molotov cocktails a Blue Flame?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[rking22]

My college room mate had an orange Rabbit diesel in 77. I remember telling people that it got 50mpg but wouldn’t make 85 if you pushed it out of an airplane! Absolute truth, must have been a common thought! I looked hi and lo for one back when gas hit 3.50, guess its good I didn’t find one, or they were extinct by then!

[Ozark mike]

My college room mate had an orange Rabbit diesel in 77. I remember telling people that it got 50mpg but wouldn’t make 85 if you pushed it out of an airplane! Absolute truth, must have been a common thought! I looked hi and lo for one back when gas hit 3.50, guess its good I didn’t find one, or they were extinct by then!

The Caddys are the best and still can be found i see em now and then 75 thru 82 had 11mm headbolts and were known for eating headgaskets later models got 12mm headbolts and were a little better best upgrade is to use studs

[Ozark mike]

and the reason it is 85% alcohol?.....15 % real gas is added for only one reason....to keep you from drinking it!:bigsmyl2:

Tech term is denatured alcohol

[mattw]

My experience... don't do it if it has not been run it's entire life on E85. It is a fuel system cleaner... tried it once in my 09 Expedition and promptly plugged the fuel filter and turned a bunch of crap lose in the fuel system. Finally got it running again, will not try that little test ever again. BTW, burning the tank off in the truck... dropped from 18.5 to 13.8 MPG! And, had the added benefit of less power when pulling a 2600 pound mower and it's trailer.