Alox 350 has been Discontinued

[lar45]

I just got an email from the sales dept. at Luberizol.
Alox 350 has been deemed obsolete and is no longer for sale effective immediately.
They do not have a replacement.
I still have some on hand that I can work with. I am going to see if they have any in stock that can still be ordered, but the email sounded pretty final.
I know a bunch of you guys still use and like 50-50, I will see if I can come up with some replacement.

FWIW
Glenn.

[30hrrtt]

Is the 50-50 the only lube you sell that this affects?

[RyanJames170]

will this affect the liquid alox?

[lar45]

It will not effect the liquid Alox or the 45-45-10

We use Alox 350 in our 50-50, BAC, 2500+ and BP-01 black powder lube.
I still have about 1/2 a drum of it on hand, so this will keep us going for a little while.
I am searching for any distrubutors that may still have some in stock.
Luberizol has said that they don't have any in stock and will not make anymore.

Our Alox free lubes are Commercial Grade 190, Commercial Grade 160, Carnauba Red, Carnauba Blue and BPCR Supreme.

[RyanJames170]

Curious but is your 50-50 the same thing as the Lyman Alox lube?

[lar45]

I'm not exactly sure what Lyman puts in their Alox lube, but it should be very similar.
The NRA 50-50 lube is 50% Beeswax 50% Alox 2138F
Alox 2138F has not been availible for many years. The replacement was Alox 350.
Alox 350 needs 6-7% micro wax added to approximate Alox 2138F.
My 50-50 lube uses Alox 350 with some microwax and beeswax. It ends up being slightly stiffer than Javalina and works great.

I'm working with Luberizol to see if they have another Alox product that will give the same lubrication properties as Alox 350. I've asked for samples, when they arrive I'll start by mixing some small batches of lube, then testing will begin to see how it performs in pistols and rifles, pan lubes, and runs though a lubersizer. Then adjust the ingredients and try it all again.....

[mdi]

FWIW; When I first read the title, I thought of posting "Just go to White Label Lubes". https://lsstuff.com/ Then I saw the name of the OP. OOPS!:oops:

[RyanJames170]

How dose the 45-45-10 compare to your 50-50? Getting a rough idea what I wana order up from you to replace my Lyman Alox lube supply,

[JCherry]

lar45,

Do you know which micro wax can be added to Xlox 350 to approximate the Alox 2138F. I have used Xlox 350 50/50 by weight with bees wax and it worked just fine though it does seem a bit soft.

Thanks,

Have Fun
JCherry

[fcvan]

I used Javalina for 4 decades. The last lube I bought was from Glenn, best on the earth. I did have to buy a lube-sizer heater but dang, good stuff. I will be following this progress.

[lar45]

How dose the 45-45-10 compare to your 50-50? Getting a rough idea what I wana order up from you to replace my Lyman Alox lube supply,

The 45-45-10 is a liquid tumble lube that works great. I use a cool whip plastic tub, put a couple of handfuls of bullets in, drizzle some lube over the top, put the lid on and swirl around until they are all coated. Then pour them out onto some wax paper to dry overnight. It seems to be good to around 1500fps in rifles. Some people have pushed it faster, but that the limit that I've done. I use it for mass plinking ammo so I don't have to spend as much time on the lube/sizer.

The 50-50 comes in either 1# blocks for pan lubing, or 1x4" round sticks in solid and hollow for the lube/sizers.

[lar45]

JCherry, there is a very wide range of micro waxes out there. Micro 143 from Genwax.com seems to work as well as any. Alox 350 is thinner and makes a softer lube, so add the micro wax, that should stiffen it up.

[RyanJames170]

Lar what I was thinking about was not the 45-45-20 but the Xlox 2500 plus lube,

[mattw]

FWIW; When I first read the title, I thought of posting "Just go to White Label Lubes". https://lsstuff.com/ Then I saw the name of the OP. OOPS!:oops:

Gotta admit, that was my first thought and then I saw who posted...

[Jniedbalski]

Glad the 45/45/10 is ok. That is good stuff. Works or dries faster than straight Lee alox

[JCherry]

Lar45,

I checked that site and all they list is Micro 175 and Micro 195. Would either of those work?

Thanks,

JCherry

[lar45]

They used to have a 143. I'd try to find one with a melt temp similar to BeesWax, which is around 140ish, I believe.
Here's another source.

https://blendedwaxes.com/product/microcrystalline-wax/

[greenjoytj]

I have no idea what Alox is/was used for in industry.
As a component of bullet lube I’m sure was never a designed intent, just a product with lubricating properties that could me exploited in a niche market.

If Lubrizol stopped production of this chemicals it would only be for financial reasons.
Industries need for the product has vanished or another product can do what Alox did better and cheaper.
It remains to be discovered what product industry has replaced Alox with and if it can be utilized as a bullet lube component without modification or easily modified to adapt it to bullet lube.

[tomme boy]

Alox was a rust preventative that was sprayed to coat the bare steel so it would not rust. It was also used as a undercoating on cars.

[RyanJames170]

So Alox was a sort of cosmoline?

[Maven]

Alox was a rust preventative that was sprayed to coat the bare steel so it would not rust. It was also used as a undercoating on cars.

Ziebart and Rusty Jones, both long gone, offered it. The Ziebart stuff smelled the same as the stuff we use, but was a lighter color.

[tomme boy]

We applied it at the Body shop supply warehouse I worked at. I don't remember what it was called. But it was very thick and was sprayed on. We had to cut it with mineral spirits in the colder months so it would work in the guns we used. It came in 55 gal barrels. I hated it and it stunk the whole shop up for days after it was used.

[Scrounge]

I just got an email from the sales dept. at Luberizol.
Alox 350 has been deemed obsolete and is no longer for sale effective immediately.
They do not have a replacement.
I still have some on hand that I can work with. I am going to see if they have any in stock that can still be ordered, but the email sounded pretty final.
I know a bunch of you guys still use and like 50-50, I will see if I can come up with some replacement.

FWIW
Glenn.

If you can get hold of a Safety Data Sheet they usually give ingredients and approximate proportions. Might help you find a good replacement.

Bill

[243winxb]

Could Lubrizol* be antigun? Discontinued because they know what its used for?

They still make it , but they changed the name of Alox & lied?

Since 2011, Lubrizol has been a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway.

The Berkshire Hathaway Chairman and CEO , Warren Buffett sits on the advisory board of Bloomberg’s organization Everytown for Gun Safety. https://everytown.org/who-we-are/

Google info.

[sutherpride59]

I’m down for some reasonable conspiracy theories 243 but that just doesn’t shake out bud. Not attacking you just saying as boolit casters we make up a very minor percentage of the shooting public. Not even enough to be a thought by any anti-gun group. To them all bullets are lead. Probably just better products on the market and this one is outdated so it was replaced.

[tomme boy]

Just need to find someone that works in a metal mill. Find out what they are using to spray on the steel so it does not rust.

[tomme boy]

I just remembered I have a friend that sells industrial supplies to all the mills all over the country. I just sent him a message and I will see what he says.

[243winxb]

I want Alox 2138F back. It made a nice lube star on my guns muzzle. Alox 350 never did.

Conspiracy- Your right. They would go after lead first. As some have already.

[alamogunr]

t seems like everytime any mention of Alox in reference to bullet lube, that any and all Alox is lumped under "Alox". The two products that have been used as lube in sizers are Alox 2138f and Alox 350. Lar45 explained it well in his posts.

The Alox product used for tumble lube is Alox 606-55, which is the rust preventive. I think some have used other Alox products as tumble lube. I don't know what results they had.

I recently sold the remains of a 5 gallon bucket of each that I had. I kept a large jar of each, which should last me for the rest of my shooting/casting life. I for one hope that Lar45 finds a suitable replacement for Alox 350 because there are apparently many, including me, that like the NRA 50/50 lube. The jars of Alox 606-55 that I sold should make enough 45-45-10 to lube multi-thousands of boolits.

I doubt that either Alox or Warren Buffet were/are concerned that we casters used the products on our bullets. As a side note, I still have about a quart of Alox 2138f that I bought from GAR when they went out of business.

[centershot]

I want Alox 2138F back. It made a nice lube star on my guns muzzle. Alox 350 never did.

Conspiracy- Your right. They would go after lead first. As some have already.

Yeah!! I'm so lucky, I live in the Peepels Reepublik of Nuu Jork where they banned lead wheelweights a decade ago to protect us from lead poisoning! I still can't believe these liberal schmucks haven't outlawed the possession of lead by us lowly servants!

[dragon813gt]

I still can't believe these liberal schmucks haven't outlawed the possession of lead by us lowly servants!
If they do I suggest you give it to them 55-500 grains at a time.

[Billwnr]

I used to complain that my stock was Alox 350 and not Alox 2138. Guess that's not a bad thing now. I think I have a quart of 350.

[303Guy]

Tectyl 506. It's supposed to be milspec. It smells the same as alox. It has a polarized molecule which I suppose makes it stick to sliding surfaces, making it a good lubricant.


Tectyl 506 is a preventative compound for rust prone surfaces providing protection against the damaging effects of moisture, chloride and corrosion. Cures to a dark amber coloured, waxy, transparent, firm film.

I can only get it in aerosol form.

[Martin Luber]

Banners, Don't give 'em any ideas!

There has to be tons of alox out there.or even complete lube.

[Wolfram Malukker]

We used to use LPS2 for a liquid rust protectant, and LPS3 was a light spray wax film. There was another one we used but hated-left a heavy white film of wax that was very slick and damn dangerous for heavy steel stuff-they would slide out of the pallet banding if you didn't strap them perfectly!

EDIT:

The other spray was CRC SP-400 Corrosion Inhibitor. It's made for long term die storage outdoors. Cleans up "OK" and dries to a light waxy film, but can't say if it smells like ALOX or not.

[Alstep]

I have a container of a product called "Rusfre 1000-1 clear rust proofing". Made by a company called 3B Products out of New Kensington, PA. Bought it back in the mid '90's to spray on my pickup back then. It's thickened now to the consistency of Vaseline, and about the same color. I've tried to get ahold of the company for info, but they must be out of business. Often wondered if it might be similar to Alox. Anybody got a clue???

[lar45]

I had a meeting with a couple of the fine folks at Luberizol,
They were very helpful and friendly, And...
They have a different Alox product that is somewhat similar.
They are sending a sample so I can make several small test batches to see how it works compared to the Alox 350.
Once I have it all mixed and tested, I'll post the results.

[Green Frog]

Thanks for the update, Lars. In the meanwhile, I'm buying up whatever 50/50 I can find cheap and saving my pennies for a lube pump heater to use your Carnauba Red whenever appropriate. You can thank Dale53 for turning me on to what I call "Panama Red" just to yank his chain. :kidding:

Froggie

[Bazoo]

Any update?

[lar45]

Well, it seems like they are still running a skeleton crew in some areas due to Covid concerns...

I did just barely get the sample in a couple of days ago.
This new Alox seems to be very similar, but with a slightly higher melt point.
I use Alox 350 in 4 of my lubes. So I will have to make 4 small batches and then lube boolits and shoot them to see how they perform next to the original recipe.

I still have enough Alox 350 to last maybe 4 months.
I will give you guys an update as the testing progresses.

[NuJudge]

Anxiously awaiting results the the proposed replacements. From what I have read, 350 was not used by NRA because its melting point was too low, and 2138F was used because its melting point was higher. So long as the the other properties are similar to 350 and 2138F, the new replacements may be just fine.

[lar45]

Hi, sorry I'm a little bit slow on this. I did finally get the sample. I'll need to make small batches of the different lubed and test them all in rifles and pistols.
We're coming up on regular gun deer season here in Arkansas. Right now I'm sitting in a stand hoping a hog wanders in.
I should be home in a couple of days and can start with the testing.

[lar45]

270485
This little guy was on my camera last night.
I'm hoping to stay up late and wait him out

[GhostHawk]

Cosmoline stays softer IMO, Alox with drying time/heat bakes to a finish similar to enamel. Sticks very well to almost anthing wet. Once dried very little will stick to it including hot lead.

I've been using thinned alox (BLL) with a twist of 0000 steel wool on my mold sprue plates and holes.

Really cuts down how often I get a piece of lead stuck on a sprue hole. Nothing sticks.

But don't take my word for it, test it yourself.

[243winxb]

Well, it seems like they are still running a skeleton crew in some areas due to Covid concerns...

I did just barely get the sample in a couple of days ago.
This new Alox seems to be very similar, but with a slightly higher melt point.
I use Alox 350 in 4 of my lubes. So I will have to make 4 small batches and then lube boolits and shoot them to see how they perform next to the original recipe.

I still have enough Alox 350 to last maybe 4 months.
I will give you guys an update as the testing progresses.

Have time for an update? What is the current replacement being used in your 50/50. Thank you.

[Outpost75]

So Alox was a sort of cosmoline?

Calcium soap. https://www.nyelubricants.com/choosing-the-right-grease-thickening-system

Greases prepared from calcium soaps have improved water resistance over the lithium greases and very good shear stability. Calcium soap greases do not have good thermal resistance (dropping points range from 135-145°C) and are typically only used in applications that operate up to 110°C.

Improved water resistance over the lithium greases, with good shear stability, bearings of water pumps, wheel bearings, and agricultural vehicles.

Calcium sulfonate greases exhibit greater shear stability than lithium complex greases. And that means they will hold up under pressure, for longer, than lithium greases. Lithium complex and calcium sulfonate greases both have the advantage of being compatible with both each other and many types of other common greases.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/909/calcium-sulfonate-thickeners

Calcium sulfonate thickeners have been around for almost 50 years. This particular type of grease has inherent extreme pressure (EP) properties that stand out from the rest. These properties, combined with the fact that it can be formulated for use in H-1 (food-grade) applications, make it an attractive alternative to other greases. Calcium sulfonate greases are made by converting a fluid detergent that contains amorphous calcium carbonate to a grease containing calcite particles. Because of the calcite particles’ lubricating properties, performance additives containing sulfur, phosphorous or zinc may not be needed. This is why some calcium sulfonate-based greases are attractive to the food industry.

Although calcium sulfonate greases have desirable properties, an inhibiting factor is the cost. Calcite particles are the business end of making the product work, but reaching that point can be expensive. In addition, calcium sulfonate supply is limited, while costs are escalating.

Plants are operating at capacity, and grease is not the only bidder. Calcium sulfonates are used in engine oil, metalworking, automatic transmission fluid, industrial and automotive gear oil additives as well as other applications. To complicate the situation, let’s compare the treat rates.

Heavy-duty diesel applications require an approximate treat level of five percent. In grease applications, the treat levels spike to between 20 and 50 percent. That’s a big difference and a major reason for the high cost.

Another downside is their performance with respect to pumpability and water sprayoff. Pumpability is a concern that can be alleviated through proper base oil selection. In the ASTM D4049 sprayoff test, a thin layer of grease is placed on a panel and sprayed with water. After the test is completed, the percent of grease lost is calculated. Many calcium sulfonate greases typically show significant sprayoff.

[Hanzy4200]

Long live powder coating

[Tar Heel]

How did the testing go? Were the suggested replacement products usable?

[243winxb]

I sent an email, asking what the replacement is. No Reply. Must be a "Trade Secret " :lol:

[little willie]

Old thread, but any updates on the product number or performance?

[gwpercle]

Old thread, but any updates on the product number or performance?

I read all three pages and No Update ...
Guess I'll stay with the Lithium - Beeswax lube I been using !
Gary

[alamogunr]

I've got enough Alox 350 to take me thru to the "END", but I know there are others that like the NRA lube and would like to have a replacement. I don't know what that might be but surely the original purpose for Alox 350 still exists and someone will develop something. Whether it will work as a component of bullet lube will be unknown until tested.

[Green Frog]

I read about the lubes used by the old time shooters in the Schuetzen style. Does anybody know where I can get steam cylinder oil, ozocerite, or Acheson’s graphite? :coffeecom It looks like every time we come up with a good lube formula, within just 50-75 years some so and so discontinues a key ingredient! :mad:

Froggie

[Dusty Bannister]

Steam cylinder oil source.

https://rrtools.com/product/steam-cyclinder-oil-less-than-100-psi-wet-steam-1-gal/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%201st%20Layer&utm_term=4587574832971757&utm_content=1753%20%3E%203514

Ozocerite source.

https://www.parchem.com/chemical-supplier-distributor/Ceresin-Wax-Ozocerite--052524.aspx

You are probably going to need to substitute for Acheson's Graphite.
scrolling well down in the topic will give you some ideas to explore.

http://www.lasc.us/LubeIngredients.htm

Good luck.

[Green Frog]

Actually I started tracking down all of that stuff sometime back in the mid-nineties. My post was meant to be tongue in cheek, and I guess I should have used more smilies! :bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2:

The fact is, the state of lubes is always in flux (not the stuff to clean lead but change) and we just have to go with it. I do wish I had had the opportunity to try Aldo Leopold’s lube in the (Eighteen) Nineties. ;) BTW, I sometimes used odd scraps of leftover lube for… FLUX! [smilie=l:

Froggie

[Wolfdog91]

*laughs in powder coat*

[gwpercle]

Don't overlook the simple blend of Lithium Grease and Beeswax for a very good lube .
1 part Lithium Grease ( Lucas Red-N-Tacky)
3 parts beeswax
If the lube is too soft for you add a little Gulf Paraffin Wax to harden .
When the old alox 2138F was discontinued , lube maker Garth Choate told me to try his Lithium - Beeswax lube as he thought it better than the new formula alox & beeswax they had to use .
I've never had a leading problem with it in handguns and 30-30 rifle under 2000 fps but I don't push them too hard .
Garth gave me the recipe , he said they haven't made lube in years .
He designed and built a machine for moulding hollow and solid sticks back then .
Gary

[Mal Paso]

I've been using a version of Glen Fryxell's Moly-Graph grease and beeswax. I think he said 50/50 which I found way to soft. I use 2 parts beeswax to 1 part Moly-Graph which flows at room temp without heat.

[Bazoo]

What’s the latest word on the alox discontinuation and finding a substitute?