S&W 1937 Project - Final Post

[Jkrem]

For those that followed my journey, I started out with an incomplete S&W Model 1937 revolver that I wanted to put back in the field. After a couple months searching, I procured all of the missing parts and some extras with the help of a 1942 Army TM. It was fun, but after a couple weeks searching I only found one gunsmith on the west coast who is willing to give it a look regarding addressing the timing and function problems it has. Only 3-4 chambers will function double action, and one (sometimes) single action. I’ve decided not to fire it in this condition. So, with regret I’ve decided to surrender, as I’m not willing to invest what will likely be needed to get her functioning again between shipping costs and repairs if the gunsmith will even do it. It was really a great learning experience, and having gone through it greatly regret selling a couple other double action Smith’s that I’ve owned that functioned flawlessly. My suggestion to someone wanting to attempt a restoration of a revolver from this era is to make sure you have the ability to do the tuning work necessary, or a skilled buddy who can assist you with the project. Here is a picture, thanks very much to the forum for all the suggestions in my earlier posts.

263477

[Green Frog]

I'm sorry to hear of your lack of success with this project... it would have seemed like a pretty straightforward build. I have to admit, that I'm coming late to the party though. What did you start with? Did the original frame and cylinder come together or did you have to buy a replacement cylinder? I'm assuming the latter, and if at the same time you also had to replace the hand, I'm guessing that is where your problem lies. At this point, it would seem that you would have little to lose if you try to tune the extractor and hand.

I'm a little surprised you can't find anyone to work on your revolver there in PA... there used to be a lot of gunsmiths around there. Have you checked to see whether Austin Behlert's old company is still in business? Austin passed away several years ago, but last I heard, his son was still in the business. They had moved to mostly semi-autos, but were well known for their great PPC revolvers.

If you can't find anyone, drop me a PM and we'll discuss some possible strategies.

Froggie

[Thumbcocker]

Outpost 75 seems to know a lot about vintage revolvers and probably could point you to someone closer who could get you going.

[rintinglen]

Don't give up just yet. Smiths are comparatively easy to work on, unlike v-spring colts. There has to be somebody closer to home than CA. Worst case, dive into that tm and see what the army says about fitting a hand. Sight unseen, I'm guessing your hand is too short. Somethings to check. Is the hand spring properly installed? Is it forcing the hand forward to it's proper position? Is the side plate correctly installed, not binding or interfering with the hand movement? Is the slot the hand travels in binding it, or does the hand flop around in an over-sized slot? Is the ejector star damaged or worn? Does the cylinder stop rotating short of the bolt lock up?

[Jkrem]

Don't give up just yet. Smiths are comparatively easy to work on, unlike v-spring colts. There has to be somebody closer to home than CA. Worst case, dive into that tm and see what the army says about fitting a hand. Sight unseen, I'm guessing your hand is too short.

Somethings to check. Is the hand spring properly installed? Is it forcing the hand forward to it's proper position?

- Yes, after some fiddling I learned how to install the hand so the hand lever lifts the hand forward in the notch.

Is the side plate correctly installed, not binding or interfering with the hand movement?

- the hand seems to rise and operate smoothly when I pull the trigger holding the cylinder bolt back with the cylinder open. Doesn’t seem stuck to me.

Is the slot the hand travels in binding it, or does the hand flop around in an over-sized slot?

- the hand appears to fit perfectly in the slot. Not too tight, not too loose.

Is the ejector star damaged or worn?

- the extractor star on the extractor that matches the cylinder number looks like it was filed down a lot. The extractor I bought appears to have little wear.

Does the cylinder stop rotating short of the bolt lock up?

- With the matching SN extractor installed, the cylinder doesn’t always fully index. With the non-matching extractor, the cylinder seems to index perfectly.

[rintinglen]

I'm perplexed. Neither the trigger nor the hammer cocking action will rotate the cylinder consistently, yet it indexes perfectly? I can't wrap my head around how this can be. What does your hand look like? has it been filed or perhaps broken? Without examining the gun personally, it is hard to visualize.

However, one thing I noted in looking at an old parts diagram is that there were two different types of hands, one for guns with a hammer block and one for guns without. I seem to recall that the WWI pattern guns were missing the hammer block while later production guns had the safety hammer block. Could it be that the one you have is incorrect? Another possibility is that the hand lever spring might be missing or damaged. it is a little booger, about 5/8" long and perhaps a 1/16 in diameter.

[Jkrem]

I'm perplexed. Neither the trigger nor the hammer cocking action will rotate the cylinder consistently, yet it indexes perfectly? I can't wrap my head around how this can be. What does your hand look like? has it been filed or perhaps broken? Without examining the gun personally, it is hard to visualize.

However, one thing I noted in looking at an old parts diagram is that there were two different types of hands, one for guns with a hammer block and one for guns without. I seem to recall that the WWI pattern guns were missing the hammer block while later production guns had the safety hammer block. Could it be that the one you have is incorrect? Another possibility is that the hand lever spring might be missing or damaged. it is a little booger, about 5/8" long and perhaps a 1/16 in diameter.

Hand appeared to be new and was coated in cosmoline or some protectant. Here is a pic
263538

The 1937 side plate has a flat spring that doesn’t appear on my TM 1917 parts diagram that I think has a hammer block at the top. It seems to actuated by the hand in some way. Perhaps I should try removing it?

The hand spring and lever are there and in good order. Took me a long time to figure them out, but the lever holds the hand forward as I understand it should.

[Petrol & Powder]

One, as others have said - Don't give up.
Two, you might be over-thinking this a bit. Some more photos may be helpful.
Three, I've seen a LOT of mislabeled and misidentified parts - more so in today's world of Ebay and other internet based sales. Be wary when someone sells you some part and claims that it is "X".

[725]

Jkrem
I'd check around various police departments for some of their old time gunsmiths. For a long time, the S&W wheel gun dominated the country and out there somewhere is a guy who knows these things inside out. KBO !

[rintinglen]

263557 This is the one I think you need if your serial number is greater than 185,000.

[Jkrem]

Well that explains a lot, the wedge would lift the hammer block spring when the hand rises. I’m not sure it will address the other issues I have but she ain’t gonna fire if that hammer block spring isn’t depressed! Here is the back of my side plate...263565

[Green Frog]

I freely admit to being a “parts changer” as opposed to a “real” gunsmith... when I run into problems like you have, Jkrem, I often find myself needing to “rely on the kindness of strangers”. Forums like this one are a lifesaver for me. Don’t be discouraged and continue to persevere!

Froggie

[Petrol & Powder]

Jkrem, I think you're getting closer to a solution.

[skeettx]

Watching

[Jkrem]

Well, the project is at least on life support and not dead. I will start my search for the hand for my M1937 sideplate. Also, I’m going to try a cheap 1917 sideplate without the hammer block which should be correct for my hand and see how that works. I just missed one on eBay for $6, they are at least available. Unless the M1937 hand was also used for commercial Smiths in the late 30’s, it may be next to unobtainium unless I find someone with a very deep parts bin.

[JMax]

I am an old LEO Smith armorer plus built a number of match revolvers. Re-barreled my 1917 with a 6 1/2” 1955 target barrel, adjustable rear sight and made it into a fun shooter. Things that I learned are that lower track parts including trigger, rebound if the hammer safety stud is ground off and hammer spring. The cylinder stop is not interchangeable as well as the thumb piece and hammer. The hammer stud is about a sixteenth of an inch closer to the recoil plate. The original trigger uses a coil spring and lever instead of the more modern hand spring.

Don’t give up but I have never seen a flanged N-Frame hand but have several for the first hammer block safety in your revolver. Check with Lee’s gun-shop in Irving Tx, they are open in the middle of the week and have no web inventory but when you get through they are super knowledgeable.

As a side note the lever is staked in place and can be easily removed. Getting side plates to match will be hit or miss as they machined to fit the specific frame.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll second the caution about interchanging side plates. I would recommend using the one matched to your gun if at all possible.

[rond]

Have you tried Lee's Gun Parts in Texas?

[Jkrem]

Here is the latest, with Jmax’s help I figured out how to remove the hammer block lever from my sideplate. With the hammer block removed, the hammer and firing pin now move pretty smoothly through the front of the frame. Shockingly, the pistol now functions double action fairly smoothly on all chambers, and it fully indexes the cylinder. However, still will not function single action on any chamber. Trigger seems to be hanging up on the hammer strut, perhaps that has to do with the hammer block lever being gone. A new problem with the hammer moving freely is it seems to be binding on the rebound slide after firing, in which case the hammer doesn’t fully rebound. I see two contact surfaces, one on the top of the rebound slide and one on the bottom of the hammer. I’m guessing I need to stone or file these some to adjust for this? Is it preferable to only work on one surface or both? If I can solve this hammer rebound issue, I’ll attempt to fire it a couple dozen times with standard factory FMJ loads and see if it functions. I put a piece of tape across the primer pocket of an empty piece of brass and the firing pin puts a dent in it, which is encouraging.

[Petrol & Powder]

Jkrem, I think you have a lot of mis-matched parts. Long Action verses Short action.

[Jkrem]

Jkrem, I think you have a lot of mis-matched parts. Long Action verses Short action.

I’m sure of it, the only two numbered parts that match are the cylinder and extractor. The 1937 sideplate number doesn’t even match the frame but does seem to fit perfectly. All the major parts do seem to fit the serial number range for the Brazilian revolvers though, and the barrel has an import stamp. I have been buying 1917 parts, or at least what are advertised as 1917 parts, for the rest.

[Jkrem]

263728

I thought a picture might help.

[Petrol & Powder]

From looking at the pictures, including the ones with the simple "made in USA" mark on the frame and the picture of your side plate; I agree that you have the wrong hand (pawl).
I'm not 100% on that trigger either.

I wouldn't give up. I just think you need to collect all the correct parts.