45-70 in the hand or 45LC in the bush?

[c0wb0y84]

I have a gun I want to trade for a 45 LC Winchester/marlin/Henry and I haven’t really advertised it yet but I was talking to a guy that offered up a nib marlin trapper stainless 45-70.

I’m tempted but would have to buy all casting and reloading stuff to go with it and I’m not really sure what I’d shoot it at other than put it in rotation for deer and punch bigger holes in paper.

I already have all the 45 LC stuff but I still would have to find someone to make the trade or buy it and reuse funds for a lever gun.

Words of advise?

[Four-Sixty]

Hold out for what YOU wanted, and don't compromise.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

45-70 can be loaded down to 45 Colt levels, the Marlin 1895 Trapper may or may not be lighter than a 45 Colt rifle, depending on model. I would expect the 45-70 to be much more accurate at 100 yards and beyond. Of course, the 45-70 can be loaded up for just about anything you want to shoot. The Lee 4-die set thqt includes the crimper works fine and is what I use, my upgrade from an old Herter's die set. I would get a Lyman 'M' or NOE stepped expander for cast. I have used both .459 and .460 bullets in my 2 Marlin 1895's, 2018 Cowboy and 1979 models. NOE and Accurate offer light bullet molds for the 45 rifles(.458+ dia) The Marlin 1895 45-70 is a very good rifle. I have had good results with the commercially cast 300gr plain base bullets. I can think of many trips where I wished my Marlin 1895 was stainless. In Alabama, that could/ would be a high consideration.

[Norske]

The Marlin 1894 45 Colt is much lighter than the same rifle in lessor calibers. The barrel walls are that much thinner. My 1895 45-70 isn't any lighter than some of my bolt rifles. But when I fire a Buffalo Bore round, it wish it weighed about 3# more.
Check the rifling twist rate in the 1894. I have a source that says it's 1 in 38." My 44 magnum's 1 in 38" twist is too slow for bullets longer than maybe a 270 grain. I know 300 gr Lee cast bullets don't stabilize. I'm thinking Marlin/Remington considers the 1894 a cowboy action rifle (the 444 1895 has a twist similar to my Ruger SBH revolvers).

[Mk42gunner]

I have to agree with Four-Sixty.

Having had both, the 1894CB in .45 Colt is still here, while the 1895SS in .45-70 went down the road. Don't get me wrong, the .45-70 is a tremendous cartridge, but I don't personally need that much potential power in a lever action. And it is way to easy to load what I call Elmer Keith Memorial Loads that your shoulder will hate you for.

I would imagine that the .45 Colt will take care of any you find in Alabama just fine, plus to set up for casting and loading another caliber is going to take around $200 on top of the price of the gun by the time you get a couple of molds and all the other stuff.

Robert

[Rgmcfarland]

If I had a gun I didn’t want so was “tradeable” and I wanted a 45lc, was offered anew 45-70 even up I would take it if I didn’t have a 45-70. Buy a box of ammo and play with it, maybe I’m happy with it, maybe I keep it and keep hunting a 45lc, maybe I trade it for a 45lc. Point is I had a gun I didn’t want, got a gun for it of equal or better value I didn’t want, sounds like I got a new toy for nothing and when I tired of it I would trade it. Either way it’s a win from my perspective. Disclaimer, I’ve never sold a gun, never traded a gun, so my perspective is skewed!

[scattershot]

What is Your 45/70?

[indian joe]

The Marlin 1894 45 Colt is much lighter than the same rifle in lessor calibers. The barrel walls are that much thinner. My 1895 45-70 isn't any lighter than some of my bolt rifles. But when I fire a Buffalo Bore round, it wish it weighed about 3# more.
Check the rifling twist rate in the 1894. I have a source that says it's 1 in 38." My 44 magnum's 1 in 38" twist is too slow for bullets longer than maybe a 270 grain. I know 300 gr Lee cast bullets don't stabilize. I'm thinking Marlin/Remington considers the 1894 a cowboy action rifle (the 444 1895 has a twist similar to my Ruger SBH revolvers).

whats the problem here ? whats out in the wilds of Alabama that a normal slug (255 grain cast) from a new made 45 colt rifle wont handle? just wondering whats the fascination with overloading these pistol calibre guns with heavy slugs they not made to shoot? no grizzer bars? no bufflers dont need a 45/70 - and didnt sound like he wanted one either really.............

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hold out for what YOU wanted, and don't compromise.

ditto on this plus I can guarantee You'd shoot the .45 LC alot more. I have a 1895 CB and an 1894 CB in .44 Spec/Mag and I shoot the .44 much more and I load for both. Even with light loads the big gun is harder on you. My Hot loads for .44 Mags in pistols and rifles are right up there with my normal .45-70 load. I can't duplicate my .44 Mag or Special Mid-Range loads with a .45-70. I also wouldn't hesitate shooting a deer with my Mid-Range .44's as I already know they will go clean thru it in any direction. That's 250 gr SWC at 11-1200 fps form the rifle, my hot loads are 17-1800 fps and they will go thru 2 deer plus a tree.

Anything you can do with a .44 Magnum you can do with a .45 LC using new Starline Brass and have bigger boolits to boot!

Also I'd seriously recommend a Marlin 1894 CB Short Rifle go here.https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1894/model-1894cb-45-colt

These are more like $825 on the street.

Randy

[jban]

Hold out for what YOU wanted, and don't compromise.

Agree with this. A compromise is just that. It's not what you wanted. Pistol caliber carbines are fun. Maybe a little too fun once you get your lead bullet load worked out. I know I may get flamed for this but, I would stay away from micro groove rifling. This is just my person opinion. I know people have good luck with it, but I seem to find that Ballard rifling is easier for me to get the loads I want.

[Outpost75]

Great discussion topic. I went down this road 25 years ago. Have owned a bunch of .45-70s over the years, Trapdoors, 1886 Winchesters, custom Ruger No.1H "Tropical Rifle" in .45-70 rather than in .458 Win. As I got older and more arthritic I grew less tolerant of the heavier recoil and the .45-70s were very hungry for powder and lead. I sold off the .45-70s, and acquired several single-shot and lever-action .45 Colt rifles. I already had a gaggle of .45 Colt revolvers, Colt SAs, New Service M1909, Ruger Vaquero and Blackhawk single-actions, a customized rebarrelled and recylindered M1917 and an S&W 25.

I found very adequate enjoyment in .45 Colt for shooting steel and for Eastern woods deer and boar hunting, very effective on game, easy on both the shoulder and the ears. VERY economical to shoot. Accurate 45-290H, 295-grain flatnosed bullet cast 1 to 30 tin-lead with 7.5 grains of Bullseye does all you require in either rifle or revolver within 100 yards. Complete through-and-through penetration from any angle on deer or pigs and a stone killer. Long nose of the 290H fits the longer Ruger cylinders. In the Colt New Service and Single-Action Army I use same charge with 45-264H, which has a shorter nose. Good full charge load slightly above SAAMI MAP for .45 Colt, but not exceeding .45 ACP pressure levels, which is clean burning and accurate.

263528 263530263531

[c0wb0y84]

Well I had about decided to go ahead and get the 45-70 until coming back to check this thread today. I've been waffling on this. Its not that I don't want a .45-70 its just that wasn't what I was planning on. I think it could be a fun gun and as my time in Alabama is temporary I may have more of a use for it in the future.

On the other hand I've been having fun with the 45 LC revolver and think that a matching lever action would add to the fun. And I can feed it with what I have on hand and the supplies will last longer.

[JimB..]

I have the cowboy limited version of the 1894 in 45lc and shoot it less than my 1895 in 45-70. That octagon barrel looks great, but it’s heavy. The 336 in .44 is fun and I don’t know why it doesn’t get shot more, need to do some load development for it. Obviously the 1894 in .357 is the Centerfire winner for punching holes in paper and plinking.
All that you say that the premise of your question is wrong, you should get the new one and keep the old one.

[M-Tecs]

I have several of both. I shoot the 45-70 a lot more. I have the 45 Colts for cowboy action but like most Marlins in 45 Colt they have large chambers.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd have a hard time passing up the Marlin; I really like my .45-70CB, but if you don't really want it, hold out for what ya do want.

[Harter66]

I had a 45/410 single shot pistol . Which caused me to need a 45 Colts Ruger BH .
Having the BH begged for a companion carbine ......... 2 M92' copies and a weirdness that I guess I'm the only person on the planet to experience . I chased heavy and slow and fast and light and the 1-32" twist just wouldn't cooperate until I was out in the woods , clear off the tracks , rowing in the swamp for data . If l load for 750 in the BH I can shoot at 100 ok ..... That run "made" me buy a 45-70 1895G which is of course I can load down to a 45 ACP or a medium African slayer suited for almost anything in a North American zoo break .

I am having the less attractive 92' rebarreled with a 1-16 so it's not out performed by a High Point 945 ........ I can't stand the idea of having a carbine that I can match hunting ranges with it's pistol .

I really enjoy the 45-70 without being beaten up and in hindsight it would have saved me a lot of fooling around .

[Ozark mike]

Im a 45-70 fan but not in remlin anything older marlin yes henry is also a real good gun. 45 colt is a quicker cartridge but wont have the penetration of a 500 grn @1500 fps. By quicker i mean quicker followups

[smkummer]

I like them both. Was just today shooting my H&R officers trapdoor 45-70 and Marlin 1895 45-70 sporter. 350 grain cast at 1300 FPS with unique. Cheap, accurate and easy on shoulder. Shooting a large wood block hanging at 100yards. Lots of fun with family and friends who have never shot 45-70. And so is 45.colt that will hold 2X as much in the tube. In the end, it’s just easy to pack twice as much ammo in 45 colt then 45-70.

[MT Chambers]

Where I hunt the 45 LC won't reach the game or put it down, big bears, big bucks, moose and elk and the 45/70 is tops, the .45 Colt is for cowboy games.

[Ozark mike]

Where I hunt the 45 LC won't reach the game or put it down, big bears, big bucks, moose and elk and the 45/70 is tops, the .45 Colt is for cowboy games.

There was a older feller here he worked up at macs he had to put down a big bear with a .45 bh While out in the backcountry. But yes a 45-70 is the way to go for draining big critters.

[nawagner]

Having both a 45 Colt SA and the Marlin in 45 Colt, it is nice to have matching calibers. Even if it's just to say you have matching calibers. I did find a load that works in both pretty well so I don't have to worry about mixing ammo.

[Geezer in NH]

My 45/70 loads work same as 45 colts

However 45 colts can not work the same as my 45/70 can.

If I had a 45 colt I would not worry about it until I need to use it for Buff's , Moose. Elk. Other than them go with the Colt and more available in the magazine.

However my 1895 Marlin has always been loaded wit 1 in the chamber and 2 in the magazine and in 40 years never needed to reload it in a Hunting scenario.

[c0wb0y84]

Well I decided to give the .45-70 a shot. (Pun intended). It’s a new Marlin 1895 trapper with a pretty nice trigger out of the box.

I picked up a reloading package off S&S here with some dies, brass, sizer and a 300ish grain mold. I also have a mind to find a load using WC844. I know this isn’t a popular powder to use in this round but have also read of some people having really good success with it. It seems that this powder works better for medium to full house loads with heavier Boolits. I guess now I need to find a mold in the 400+ gr range.

[Ozark mike]

The 400+ gr bullets are more effecent in this cartridge no matter bbl length even my revolver is better suited to the 500+ gr. I get better accuracy and burn the only issue is launching em 1500fps then expecting to get back on target quickly

[Baltimoreed]

I’ve had several .45-70s, currently have a .45-60 but have a bunch of 45lcs. The .45lc in a modern rifle can be loaded up to a lot more umph than the general factory loads are. Factory loads are loaded lighter in case they find their way into the many older firearms out there. There are hotter loads which are labeled as being for rugers, etc available or safely brew your own. If you’ve already got the .45lc components why mess with 45-70? Just be careful with your hot reloads if you’ve got grandads old 1873 in your safe.

[Harter66]

I have several 405 class moulds .

An old Herters I haven't cast yet .

I have a 462-420 MP the PB/HB version it casts .460 @ 417 and 380 gr , if you want to drive hard it works well .

The 458193 . It works great across a wide selection of powders and power levels .
1895 G , Unique , 4198 , H322 and screened ownself BP .

Watch the nose length on bullet selections the Marlins are very particular about the 2.55 OAL so that only leaves a nose out of .445 unless you use the hated Hornady brass everyone hates but turn loose of .

[bigted]

You made a great choice with a short barreled 45-70. That rifle will give you very many hours of fun and endless experiments with loads that range from rite down hurtful to loads that the young can use comfortably.

The 45 Colt has been contrary for me. Have had four and still have my favorite out of the lot but it being a Winchester Moroku made 1873, I do not load it hard as I do not know how much the toggle link action would withstand and not harm it. It wears a 16 inch tube but wow fun and lite ... however the large chambers drive me crazy. This 73 carbine has the tightest chamber and it still is rather large.

45-70's are not struck with the huge chambers that the 45 Colt levers are ... GENERALLY.

I think you will enjoy your short barreled Marlin 45-70 ... I sure do mine. Mine has the 20 inch barrel and is the older JM SBL model. It may be the most comfortable 45-70 I have ever owned. I have and have had several in all action styles and that JM Marlin is tops overall.

Congrats.

[MrWolf]

Please let us know how the new Marlin works out. Kinda a Marlin nut with all of mine JM's. Just grabbed a 256 last night because... My first lever was my 45/70. Two shots and I had a grin from ear to ear. Like some have said I have never sold or traded anything even when I had a duplicate or triplicate:bigsmyl2:

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I find 300 grain bullets work fine in the 45-70 for the critters I hunt, I've taken many elk and 1 moose with the 300 grain bullet and have no reason to go heavier. Recoil is less and trajectory can be much flatter. You get 4 300 grain bullets 0r 3 400 grain bullets withe same amount of lead. Accuracy can be very good, under 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards, scope of course. Maybe 400 grain bullets are needed to get black powder to burn, but depending on velocity desired, the right powder can be key. I use Accurate 2015 for heavier loads, 5744 for milder loads, and Unique works well for soft shooting. W844 will probably work well for 'heavier' loads but may leave some residue as pressures go down. 4198 and ReLoder 7 also work well over a range of velocities. H322 works well for top loads, but there rumors that it acts badly for reduced loading. I have been using an 1895 Marlin 45-70 since 1980 and it is still my favorite elk rifle.

[c0wb0y84]

Well my first outing with it was brief but fun. I found a starting load for h335 on hodgdon’s website for a 300 gr bullet at 58gr powder. I reduced that by about 10% to 52gr and laddered back up to 58. I felt comfortable at 52gr since I read where others had gone as low as 48gr but didn’t recommend going any lower.

I just had enough time to shoot 2 rounds at each increment and wasn’t shooting for accuracy or speed but just wanted to get a feel for it at the different levels. I’m gonna really like this one!

[bigdog454]

Had a 45-70, what a brute for Ohio deer. Bought a Puma (Rossi) 454 Casull shoots 45 colt loads just fine and kills deer just fine. With 454 loads send a 310 gr slug down range at 2050 fps, that getting close to the 45-70 velocity. It will put that 454 slug clean thru a Big buck from end to end taking out heat, lungs, and other things. good for Ohio woods and easy to carry, it's all that I need.
BD

[DDJ]

I have 2 45 Colt lever guns and one revolver,. I also have a marlin 1895 18" barrel in 45-70. If it came down to one lever rifle I would keep the 45-70. Very versatile round with a rich history. The 45 Colt also has a rich history but for some reason I just love the 45-70. Extremely versatile. BTW if you need something for recoil management the slip on Kick EEZ pads work wonders.

[John Boy]

Cowboy, choosing a 45 Colt or a 45-70 lever is a determination of the maximum distance you every are going to shoot the reloads. Plus, cost of reloads is also a factor.
FYi, don't rule out the accuracy of a 45 Colt at long distances. Picture of 2 Rams at 500 meters using a '66 Henry, 45 Colt

[c0wb0y84]

FYi, don't rule out the accuracy of a 45 Colt at long distances. Picture of 2 Rams at 500 meters using a '66 Henry, 45 Colt

:shock: What'd you use to get enough elevation? Just aim at a cloud over the target? That's pretty impressive. I hope to get a 500 yd range set up in the next couple off months to play around with longer range shooting. Unfortunately the only thing readily available is 100yds.

[c0wb0y84]

BTW if you need something for recoil management the slip on Kick EEZ pads work wonders.

The trapper has a pretty good recoil pad that has handled what I've shot through it pretty well. I'd have to load something substantially stouter that what I've been shooting to need something more. Although I've heard of some after market replacements that people rave about.