Lee 7/8 oz slug in 1 1/8 oz shell? Okay or Ohgodno?

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

This will be my first time casting boolits and I've never attempted reloading of any kind, so hopefully I'm not too far off the mark with my intentions.

I'm preparing to cast a batch of 7/8 oz slugs to re-stuff the shells I'm emptying.
Folds in crimp will be cut out with the lip left intact. 20 gauge fiber wad as a riser.

Federal Field and Target
12 gauge 2 3/4"
1 1/8 ounce #7.5 shot
3 Dram eq.

I read you're not supposed to go "too far" from the original payload weight when substituting, but nothing specifically about just how far is too far.
Has anyone used this same load or similar at 1/4 ounce underweight? Is there any dangers or anything else to be aware of? I will be using these out of an 18.5" smooth bore with no choke.

Thanks in advance.

[TjB101]

I’ve used the Lee 7/8 in Federal Hulls. Win pink wads(12S0), 2, 20ga cards under the slug, one on top. I’m experimenting with trimming wad petals or leaving intact. 16 to 17 gr Red or Extalite powder. Mild load.

I’m using the Pink wads since they fit very nicely thru my rifled barrel. Slightly different recipe for 2 other cyl bore guns.

I’ve never tried replacing shot with slug ... I’d check fit of wad that’s in the existing shell with the slug thru your barrel and confirm it fits, but not too tight.

[rancher1913]

to do that relatively safely you need to do weight for weight, so for me its a dont do it. you need to search and study y-mans threads and do a LOT of reading before you reload for shotguns.

[MOA]

So Mr. Peanutbutter, I take it you have a mold for slugs, but do you have a shotgun loading press? I think most who do this are taking factory shotshells and opening up the crimp and pouring out the shot an stuffing in the slug and re crimping the shell. How do you plan to close the shell so it will develop the correct pressure? Have you been loading shotshells for a while or are you just getting into shotshell reloading? What kind of wads are you thinking of using over the existing wad or powder wad in the factory shell? And most of all "Why are you wanting to do this"?

Now considering your post stating you have never done any reloading of any kind in the past, and, even though some of my questions seem to be rhetorical on this post, If you have never done any reloading before of any kind, I seriously think you should have some personal guidance to help you with your initial loading session. There are numerous factors one must consider carefully when loading slugs into a shotshell that may not be readily apparent other than dumping shot and putting a slug in its place. If I were you, I would look to see if there is anyone near you that has some experience with loading shotshell in general and shotshell slugs in particular. That way you will have a positive experience, and the safety of you, your gun, and anyone around you is maintained.

[gpidaho]

Mr. Peanutbutter: Welcome to the forum. Take some time to read a LOT before you proceed. Shotguns are fun to reload for but can be a very unforgiving platform. Small changes can add up quickly with working pressures that are in the very small teens. What you're suggesting can be done but there are many caution sign posts along that route. Gp

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Thank you for the replies. I have been reading a lot of posts and watching videos and anything else I can find. That is what fueled my decision to get into casting and drove my purchase choices. I only recently joined the forum now that I have all my ducks lined up, so to speak.

The "why do it" is that slugs are rather quite expensive in quantities and the vast, vast majority of them are going to be used for target practice. I have several hundreds of rounds of these Federal shells and would like to expand both a skill set of casting and "loading" while expanding my ammo variety. I do not own a reloading press, fyi.

If I wasn't clear from my original post, I will be emptying the shot from the above mentioned shells to cast and replace with slugs. The folded portion of the crimp will be removed and the rolled lip will remain. I will not be altering the existing contents (i.e. plastic wad/cup, powder, etc.) and will using 20 gauge 3/8" tall fiber wads, trimmed/stacked as needed. I also have some 16 gauge overshot cards to use as a cap if needed, but would prefer to save them for buckshot sometime down the line.

The leftover rolled down lip of the crimp is still thick enough to obstruct the shot cup petals and from what I've gathered, the slug should still be able to be pressed in by hand. I would like to avoid hot gluing or waxing the top to secure it if possible.

I'm trying to cover as much information as I can but it doesn't seem like there is much variation out there beyond essentially "cut it, dump it, cast it, stuff it" for the lee drive key slugs. At least when not discussing a fresh load from the primer up, that is. Hence my main concern was with the weight difference above all else.

I appreciate your concerns and I assure you I will not proceed without enough guidance and understanding.
Again, thank you all for your replies and if anyone has any first-hand experience with lee slugs loading with this method, that would be an excellent help.

[centershot]

Mr. Peanutbutter, you'll need to find a way to crimp he mouth of the hull closed. Whether it is a fold crimp or a roll crimp won't matter but it needs to be done. Without a crimp there is insufficient resistance to allow pressure to build and burn the powder completely. Leaving that tiny bit of the original crimp on the end of the hull won't do the job!

[brass410]

MR peanutbutter welcome to the forum. Before you start and as by now you are probably aware read read read then when you think your done, read. Must have books Reloading For Shotgunners by Robert SL Anderson & 5th Edition Shotshell Reloading Handbook Lyman. These will give a wealth of info that will probably extend the life of your firearm as well as your present facial features. They are realtively cheap to purchase and are invaluable reference material. The plethora of reloading equipment can boggle the mind, start simple, Lee whack a mole sets if you have to but a MEC 600 jr is my 1st choice and has served me well for over 35 years and loaded thousands of shells. Your wish to reload will be granted with many enjoyable hrs at the bench working up loads as well as the learning curve of new products powders cases powders etc. But you will need both these primary items to start safely. I cant speak to what you suggest (cutting and dumping but it does seem kinda risky I've never done it and my shotgun like me is still intact) but I know its done. just my 2 cents worth have good time.

[pashiner]

Mr. Peanutbutter,
I use almost exactly the same load you are attempting, and for basically the same reasons. Three key differences stand out to me, but I can tell you I have had great success with that slug and parent shell.
#1, I cut the crimp off entirely rather than leave the edge of it.
#2, I use about 1cc of dry, uncooked cream of wheat under the slug to adjust crimp height.
#3, I use a cheap russian roll crimp tool to lock everything in place with a heavy crimp.

They shoot as accurately as winchester white box 1oz slugs in my smoothbore guns, but with a noticable reduction in recoil. Same point of aim/impact. still no luck in the rifled barrel though, they tumble BAD.
I get no pressure signs whatsoever. Quite the opposite really, there are often a few unburnt grains of powder in the barrel unless I crimp HARD.
the shells end up just short enough that my magazine capacity increases by 1 shell, and all my guns still cycle them smoothly and reliably.

Just be careful, and work up your load from a 10% charge reduction. Stop and reduce the powder charge if you have hard extraction, loose primers, or extractor/ejector marks on the shells.

federal field and target have 2 piece wads, which I believe contributes to a clean release of the slug from the shotcup.

remember this is not a published or pressure tested load, so you are taking the risk upon yourself.

[megasupermagnum]

The danger of using such a combo is having a squib load that doesn't clear the barrel. 7/8 oz factory ammo certainly isn't as common as 1 1/8 oz, but is still fairly common. I would just use that.

To be honest, the only time doing such a thing makes sense to me is if you can't buy powder and primers. If you can, it's less work, and less cost to simply load your own. Hulls can be found at the shooting range for free, wads are cheap.

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Thanks for all the replies.
Really, I'd like to avoid having to go the traditional route of reloading from the ground up. I have no loading equipment of my own and a considerable stockpile of existing shells. Money and availability are the main focus.

I see mention of extractor marks as a sign of overpressure? I notice a light square-ish bump on many shells, some from different brands, so I had assumed this was normal to a degree. (Mossberg 500) It may only be on the cheaper quality shells, I'll have to look later.

It's a shame if the original crimp can't be used, that would simplify things greatly and add more consistency. A roll crimper is next on the shopping list.

I hadn't considered going to a lighter shell, but I do have plenty of 1 3/4" shotshells with 5/8 oz of shot. Assuming there's enough room for everything, would that be better or worse?

[pashiner]

It is always safer to substitute a lighter projectile for a heavy one, so putting a 7/8 oz slug in a 5/8 oz shell would be a big NOPE for me.
Like megasupermagnum said 7/8 factory loads would be the best if you could get them easily. Plain 1oz trap loads would be a good bet as well, and probably easier to find. The only off-the-shelf discount 100-packs available in my area are 1 1/8oz, so by default that's what gets used.
remember, we have no real way of knowing exactly what powder the factory uses, and how close to max pressure they are loaded, so I try to err on the side of caution.

Some factory loads, especially slugs will show the beginnings of pressure signs in some guns. It sounds like the squarish bump you describe is an ejector mark. basically, the pressure forces the hull back against the bolt, and you get an impression of the recess in the bolt face that houses the ejector.
If the bump is right by the rim of the shell, you've got an extractor mark...same deal as above.
those are near-max loads, and the hulls shouldn't be reloaded.

[MOA]

Thanks for all the replies.
Really, I'd like to avoid having to go the traditional route of reloading from the ground up. I have no loading equipment of my own and a considerable stockpile of existing shells. Money and availability are the main focus.


I see mention of extractor marks as a sign of overpressure? I notice a light square-ish bump on many shells, some from different brands, so I had assumed this was normal to a degree. (Mossberg 500) It may only be on the cheaper quality shells, I'll have to look later.

It's a shame if the original crimp can't be used, that would simplify things greatly and add more consistency. A roll crimper is next on the shopping list.

I hadn't considered going to a lighter shell, but I do have plenty of 1 3/4" shotshells with 5/8 oz of shot. Assuming there's enough room for everything, would that be better or worse?





Welcome to the forum. Here you will find more collective experience than just about anywhere.

Now, I'm always playing devil's advocate, to which stiring up the brain cells can be to our benefit at times. Understanding in these days of tight money and finance, the outlay of dollars for loading equipment is tuff, but it can pay off in the long run in learning how to load quality shotgun ammunition other than just loading slugs. Picking up a Mec 600 Jr. off ebay or even off this forum will allow you to create quality and consistent ammo of not only slugs, but buckshot and standard bird shot too. The one thought that should never be far from our thoughts is what happens when you can't go to the store and pick up your factory made shells to turn into slug slinger's let alone any other type of shot shell because the store no longer has shells to sell or the store is no longer even there. The above mentioned press is not the top of the line press on the market one can find, but it is one of the best for the money IMO, and it will produce quality and safe ammunition if you do your part in your preparation and loading techniques. IMHO you will be miles ahead by spending a few dollars and picking up a Mec. A good used one can be found I'm sure from 60 to 100 dollars.

[megasupermagnum]

You can buy a Lee load all II for around $50-60. Less if used. That comes with just about everything you need. Add a cheap scale to confirm the powder bushings are correct, and you are set. Buy 1000 primers, a pound or two of target powder (something like 700x, red dot, etc.), and a bag of wads for whatever hulls you get for free from the range. You are now set until you run out of either powder or wads.

Cutting or opening crimps on shells is a PITA. It's far easier to load a fired hull.

[MT Chambers]

You can always use a roll crimp if you cut off the orig. crimp, your shell will be shorter, but if this load is not safe or recommended in a manual at that length or any other length, I'D STOP right there, read up on the comp. and like others have said, get a Mec 600 and a scale.

[megasupermagnum]

Don't get a MEC 600, it is the worst press out there.

[Blood Trail]

Don't get a MEC 600, it is the worst press out there.

I’ve got 4. Serves me well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

I appreciate the advice thus far, but I stand firm that buying more equipment and supplies to reload from the ground up isn't the direction I'm willing to take at this time.

Would it be feasible to add ~1/4 ounce of shot inside the cavity of the lee slug to bring the weight back up to 1 1/8 oz? Loose shot shouldn't throw the slug off balance in flight, should it?

I ordered a couple boxes of 7/8 shells, we'll see how those work out.

[MOA]

I’ve got 4. Serves me well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I too have four. I started loading for 12 ga in 1980 to shoot trap at a local club in AZ. Got a 600 that was a demo at a local shop for 25 dollars. It was missing a few parts, but the local club was able to order me the missing parts, provided me with a pound of red dot, a box of once fired federal champion paper hulls a box of federal primers, box or WWAA 12 wads and a 25 pound bag of reclaimed shot and I was in business. Over the years I have learned much in the loading of shotshells. I now load shot, slugs, and buck. I got the 16 and 10 ga dies for the 600 a year later so I could load my 16 and 10 gauge for less than they cost at the store at that time and changing the dies on the frame was not all that troublesome. Later when I had more funds I decided to order two new 600 frames from MEC and set up the 10 and 16 on their own frames eliminating the need for the change over. I have used these MEC's for over 35 years without any real issues. I now own two other brands of shotshell loaders which now allow me to set up dedicated loaders for shot, buck, and slugs. I find the Posness-Warren a dream of a machine for a single stage loader even though it is not any faster in production of shells per hour, but the quality of the shell and mostly the quality of the crimp is that of factory level. My other press is a Pacific DL-155, which is know my dedicated buckshot 12 ga press. I'm sure there are many other shotshell loaders on the forum who have even more experience with these and other brands of loaders and more years of loading than I do. I also think that one can spend more time out shooting safe loads and less time inside trying to build safe loads when one employs a mechanical device designed and built for the expressed purpose of producing quality and safe shotshells. Just my 2 cents worth. Have fun and be safe.

[GooseGestapo]

Cruise the flea markets and pawn shops. I’ve got two MEC 650’s I originally got to convert to .410 and 28ga. Paid $20 for one, $25 for the other. Never have. I’ve also got a Ponsness-Warren unit I was gifted, but have loaded exactly one shell on it to try it out.

Lee has Data they sell with the slug mold. That should help you.
I too agree that getting a Lee loadall is a good suggestion.
Secondly, an old Lee Classic handloader will allow you to recrimp the hulls.

I agree, some of the cast bullet venders should consider offering inexpensive slugs, as factory loads are ridiculously expensive.

I wish Lee would offer a 20ga slug. I have the Lyman “hour glass” sabot slug, but for some reason it destabilizes at about 70yds causing groups to become “patterns” at 100yds.

[longbow]

If you are set on substituting slug for shot in factory shells there is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact Petander says that in Finland it costs more to reload shotgun shells than to buy factory loaded rounds and do just what you are wanting to do.

As for the safety aspect, subbing a 7/8 oz. slug in 1 1/8 oz. factory loaded hull certainly won't cause over pressure but as mentioned, may result in a squib load where the slug doesn't exit the barrel due to lack of pressure resulting in poor powder ignition/burn. If you were shooting rapid fire then you could chamber another round and pull the trigger with a slug still in the barrel. That would not be good!

However, there is no harm in loading a few up and shooting one at a time to see how they perform. Depending on the factory powder used they may work well or they may not. If not then go to a heavier slug. I'd strongly suspect that a 1 oz. Lee slug subbed in 1 1/8 oz. factory load would work fine.

I have not gone the slug subbed for shot in factory loads but have subbed slugs for shot using reloading data.

Not long ago I loaded up a few Lee 7/8 oz. slugs using load data for 1 1/8 oz. if memory serves. Powder was Unique because I had it and didn't want to use up my faster trap powder that I have limited amounts of for slugs. That didn't go well! I had figured Unique would be fast enough for the lighter payload but not quite... well sometimes! The first three or four went BANG! like they should and seemed to shoot okay but then I got a blooper where powder did not burn well so more of a PHOOOM! than a BANG! The first time I kinda wondered but the slug left the barrel so I carried on. Some worked fine and some did not with variations of powder burn and recoil. Obviously accuracy was not good when powder burn wasn't good. The payload must have been borderline for the Unique.

I have used Unique under 1 oz. slugs with no issues.

Like I said, if you have factory loads to use and 7/8 oz. slugs cast I'd give then a try single shot and if you get poor ignition and light recoil check the bore to make sure the slug exited. Adding a Lee 1 oz. mould to your collection doesn't cost much and I am sure it would be enough payload to work well.

Also, what was said above about crimp... especially with light payload. A roll crimper in a drill press or even hand drill will give you good crimps and resistance at ignition to get powder burning well.

As mentioned shotshell loading is a bit tricky in that there are no clear pressure signs when you are reaching over pressure. Sticky extraction is a sure sign that you are into over pressure territory but my understanding is that by the time you are getting sticky extraction you are well over "standard" acceptable pressure. Small changes can and do make large differences. A simple primer change can affect pressure by 3000 PSI. In your case you are only really changing payload and using lighter payload so other than a possible squib load there should be no safety issue. If you were going the other way and asking if you could put a 1 1/8 oz. slug in a 7/8 oz. factory load the answer would be "Don't do it!"

Give it a try and report back. We all learn something when someone tries something "new".

Longbow

[Frosty Boolit]

I can understand not wanting to buy equipment... Which leads me to this. Everyone assumed that you have a casting setup to convert that shot to slugs. I sure hope you at least have a ladle or you are going to drive yourself mad. Best of luck.