Alliant Black Mz

[T-Bird]

Anybody know why they quit making this? I wanted to try it then I found out there ain't none!

[kenton]

Alliant still lists it on their website. Maybe try their locate a dealer by zip code?

https://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/blackmz.aspx

[arcticap]

One of the only places that I've seen it for sale is on the Jedediah Starr website: --->>> https://www.jedediah-starr.com/thumbnail.asp?offset=0&deep=2&cid=78

AFAIK, it was made by American Pioneer Powder which is also very hard to find.
And APP also made Schockey's Gold powder which all 3 are basically the same product.
Alliant must have invested a lot into having their label put on so much of it, and it seemed that a warehouse full was sold at clearance prices at the Sportsman's Warehouse for a long time.
That would seem to indicate that there was too much of a stockpile or Alliant liquidated it.
For SW to sell it at $9.99 per pound must have meant that the wholesale price didn't generate any profit.
It was literally given away which must have affected demand for APP, so maybe they closed down because of it.
I was hoping that ending production was only temporary so that demand would build back up and lead to restarting production.
Unless Alliant bought the business and doesn't want to restart it.
Or the original owners need more money, time and materials to restart production, or are trying to sell the company altogether.
Once employees are gone and the doors are closed for so long, then restarting can be a problem.
Who knows what happened to its owner and the formula for the powder.

What happened to Black MZ also happened to Goex Pinnacle Powder that was also made by APP for Goex.
After the initial run with the Goex label, a stockpile of it was liquidated at clearance prices by Powder Inc. which took a long while for it to sell.
And then Goex Pinnacle powder was never seen again.
Goex had bought a bunch and then couldn't generate enough demand to make a profit on it.

APP had built a small but loyal following.
But if it's not available due to low profitability then it's not worth it for the company to keep producing it.
Hodgdon has the substitute powder market pretty much cornered with Pyrodex and 777.

A lot of people tried Black MZ and liked it.
It wouldn't make sense for production to close down if it was profitable with repeat sales.

[T-Bird]

Well that all makes sense. I've been out of the muzzle loading loop for 15 or 20 yrs and am just getting "back to the fold" or I would have probably known that. When I left, pellets were just starting to take off and Pyrodex was the main sub for black. So, I take it that APP isn't around either for now?

[Theditchman]

About six months ago I found that Sportsmans warehouse was selling Alliant black MZ for 9.99 a pound with no hazard fee so I bought 10 lbs and I liked it. I was living in Florida then but have since moved to Yuma AZ. I found it for sale in Phoenix in Sportsmans warehouse so I bought another 10 lbs...I knew this deal wouldn't last long..and sure enough it didnt...It looks rough in the hand but works very well...Try finding it at Sportsmans Warehouse and see if they still have some left

[shdwlkr]

Oct 30 2018
called alliant today and yes black mz is discontinued as the plant that was making it went out of business. No current plans to find a new source at this time

[arcticap]

Oct 30 2018
called alliant today and yes black mz is discontinued as the plant that was making it went out of business. No current plans to find a new source at this time

I wasn't sure if that was accurate or a rumor or not.
I never saw it published, only posted.
But it sure seems to be true now.

APP was the reincarnation of Clean Shot Technologies.
Clean Shot was sued out of existence by Hodgdon for infringing on their patent for producing round shaped pellets.
It reformed as APP, and made square super sticks instead of round pellets which had mixed results.
I sure hope that APP can reopened again someday.

Goex [owned by Hodgdon] had invested in building a new factory to make a similar product that was called Clear Shot.
I believe that both had an acsorbic acid based formula which comes from fruit sugar, and replaces almost all of the charcoal as the fuel.
But their formulas and product were somewhat different.
Soon after production of Clear Shot started, the new plant had an explosion and/or burned down.
And that's when Goex decided to pull the plug on their new product and contracted APP to relabel it as Pinnacle Powder for them instead.

[brewer12345]

I like the stuff and enjoyed shooting powder for ten bucks a pound. When Sportsman's finally ran out I found a gunbroker seller that had a stock at a modest markup from what Sportsman's was charging and bought a case of a dozen pounds. When it is gone, it is gone. I killed my first muzzleloader deer with a Black MZ load, so I imagine I will save the last bottle in a place of honor, heh. I have been fooling with real black as well. Since I shoot percussion sidelocks it works well, so when I burn up all the black MZ I will lay in a substantial amount of Olde Eynesford. T-bird, try some Olde E. I have played with 2f and 1.5F and so far been mightily impressed.

[toot]

why go with synthetic, when old tried and true black is still doing it right? if it ain't broke don't fix it! now iffin black powder goes out of mfg. then we all have a problem?

[dtknowles]

why go with synthetic, when old tried and true black is still doing it right? if it ain't broke don't fix it! now iffin black powder goes out of mfg. then we all have a problem?

Black Powder subs are not synthetic and White Powder probably easier to make home made than Black Powder. Sugar Rockets have been around for a long time

https://www.bing.com/search?q=sugar+rocket+mix&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&rec_search=1&plvar=0&refig=16a36d4562794ef8e5e2d09be47f6798&PC=MSE1&sp=6&qs=SC&pq=sugar+rocker&sk=PRES1SC5&sc=8-12&cvid=16a36d4562794ef8e5e2d09be47f6798&cc=US&setlang=en-US

I have not experimented with the right composition for a firearm propellant, there is a choice of oxidizers, Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate and I have not used sorbital instead of cane sugar. This stuff works in rockets and I suspect is what is in the subs. The big boys use Ammonium Perchlorate and artificial rubber (pban or htpb) and the mad bombers use Ammonium Nitrate and Fuel Oil. Some of these are not appropriate for fire arms and messing with them can get you the interests of the BATF or whatever they are called today.

Tim

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello T-bird,

Alliant didn't produce it, they just sold it.
I believe it was produced in Colorado by American Pioneer Powder,
but the plant had an explosion which stopped all production.
https://www.nbc11news.com/content/news/Explosion-and-fire-at-Whitewater-factory-388202072.html
Apparently Sportsman's Warehouse had a large stock pile and
were closing it out at $9.99 a pound, I purchased a case myself.
I haven't tried it in a muzzle-loader as of yet, but do shoot it in my
Cartridge Conversion Revolvers, lots of smoke & easy clean-up.

AntiqueSledMan.

[arcticap]

Hello T-bird,
... the plant had an explosion which stopped all production.
https://www.nbc11news.com/content/news/Explosion-and-fire-at-Whitewater-factory-388202072.html
AntiqueSledMan.

Thank you.

[arcticap]

I agree with the post about why worry about the loss of an inferior product until the real deal is gone? Low price is a poor substitute for something that works. :)
Every powder has its advantages and disadvantages.
Being more hazardous can be considered to be a disadvantage of black powder, as well as some of it's fouling characteristics associated with its sulfur content and creosote residue.

The sub. powders can be more potent which is what some BP folks don't like to admit.
And many consider the fouling characteristics of some sub's to be more desirable.

I started my kid off shooting a muzzle loader at a young age by letting him load his own gun with Pyrodex because it was safer with less chance for a cook off.
People choose what they like and feel comfortable with.
Some folks prefer the rotten egg sulfur smell of black powder more than others.
And some BP users like to stereotype all sub. powders as being inferior when in some ways they're superior.

[Lostinidaho]

I like BlackMz. So little fouling. I have only one bottle left.

[T-Bird]

I haven't shot real black in a long time. I shot it in a pistol I had in the sixties when I was a kid. It's hard to get here. In the seventies when Pyrodex came out I was in college and some of my friends were deer hunting with front stuffers. I eventually got one and I did too. We used Pyrodex because it definitely fouled less and none of us liked wiping between shots when practicing. At the time, it was advertised to be less corrosive than real black. We never had any probs. We all cleaned our guns promptly. I like the less fouling because I still don't like to clean between shots. I do have 1lb FF and 1lb FFF that I may use this fall to hunt. Cleaning after multip[le shots is not an issue when hunting. I recently bought a 54 cal RB barrel from TOTW for my TC Hawken that I've had a long time. I also found a new old stock peep sight to fit it made by TC. This means I can see the sight again and I'm in business!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hey Guys,

I started with Goex in my muzzleloaders, tried Pyrodex and didn't really like it. Here it was hard to find real Black Powder, guess now I could order on the internet, but we went with Triple Seven as the local gun shop stocks it and have had good luck with it. It was when I started with Cartridge Conversion Revolvers that I made the jump to Black MZ, as stated earlier I purchased a case. As far as fowling, I thought the Pyrodex was the worst. I still scrub with soap & water after the hunt.
I also still have a couple cans of Goex, gotta be at least 35 years old now.
I let my brother use some of the 4F for a boost in his Lyman Great Plains Rifle, it doesn't always go with the Triple Seven.
But with 4 grains of 4F under the charge, it goes every time.

I should add, the same thing happened to Goex with their Clear Shot. Back in 2003 I was invited on a Buffalo Shoot out in South Dakota. I planned on using Clear Shot in my 45-70 Uberti Highwall, but at the time I couldn't find any. I contacted Goex and they told me that they had an explosion at the factory where the Clear Shot was being made and production was discontinued.

AntiqueSledMan.