Winchester Primer Failure

[wv109323]

At the range yeaterday I had a round fail to fire. The round was a .38 Spec. With 3.5g. Of WST with my 158 cast swc. The primer was a Winchester SP.
I think this is the second time a primer has failed in 40 plus years of shooting. I examined the round after the round failed to fire. I put it back in the pistol and tried a second time. Still a no go.

[Winger Ed.]

I've had a few, but I think mine were from cast & lubed pistol ammo loaded 10-12 years before and stored in the garage.

I figure the lube got hot enough to trickle down and dud them out.
As small as the powder charges were, there wasn't enough there to blot it up before the melted lube got to the primer.

[Bazoo]

I've had one I remember that had a primer that wasnt seated all the way and it fired on the second strike. I've never had a dead primer. I always wash my hands before priming.

[engineer401]

The only primers that refused to fire for me was Wolf. CI, Remington and Winchester have never failed me.

[dale2242]

The only FTFs I have ever had was ALWAYS the fault of the fire arm NOT the primer...dale

[EDG]

Practically all FTF primer reports are in handguns and those are practically all revolvers.
I suspect most of the revolvers are smaller frame double action revolvers whose owners have reduced the tension on the main spring to aid the double action pull.
I have never seen a report of a dud primer with a Ruger Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk single action.
I once had a Smith and Wesson Model 27 N frame .357 for which I reduced the strain screw on the main spring until it miss fired.
I then increased the tension until it always fired. This gave it a nice double action pull. But it was the large N frame with a longer hammer fall. If enough rounds had been fired it might have had a dud but it never did when I owned it. A smaller frame gun with a shorter hammer fall is more likely to have a FTF.

[Outpost75]

What make and model of revolver?

Have ANY mods been done to the gun, after-market springs, trigger job?

Do you CLEAN primer pockets or seat primers in a dirty pocket?

Do you load on a progressive machine, if so which one?

What is the measured, driven protrusion of the firing pin?

What is the measured headspace/cylinder frame clearance?

What is the measured end shake/play?

Does the gun misfire more than 1 round in 1000 with factory ammo?

[Burnt Fingers]

If loading on a progressive be aware that primer drawback is real.

[onelight]

I have seen a couple of Ruger blackhawk convertibles that had light strikes on a regular basis with 9mm.
My redhawk convertible would also light strike with 45 acp In 6 round clips but fired 45 colt fine. Auto rounds in the convertibles are the only problem I have seen my 45 flattop works well with both cylinders as does a 40/10mm black hawk a friend has.

[jaguarxk120]

I pulled down a dud from range pickup, powder was fine, it went to the lawn, primer had a very good strike.
Looking at the primer the FTF was from NO compound in the cup!!

[cupajoe]

Never had a bad primer in 40+ years of reloading using Winchester and CCI primers.

[Larry Gibson]

The more you shoot both factory and your own reloads the more such things you will encounter. I've had numerous FTF (dud primers) with factory (all makes) and with milsurp (even US match ammunition). I've also had FTF with just about every make of primer. None are completely 100% reliable. There will always be a certain amount, albeit a small amount, of failure. That's why "immediate action" drills are taught.

The more you shoot, the more you will experience...…...

[GONRA]

GONRA can't recall a "dud primer" in nearly 60 years reloading and shootin' US&A factory stuff.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I recently had 3 out of 1,000 FTF of new factory UMC .45 ACP FMJ. The highest I've ever seen in new factory ammo. Zero FTF out of 1K .40 S&W UMC ammo purchased about two earlier than the .45 ACP.

[Taterhead]

If loading on a progressive be aware that primer drawback is real.

TRUE! Good thought. Mostly on small primers, in my experience. Hence Dillon's spring-loaded de-cappers and the RCBS Pow'r Punch de-cappers. Thankfully on my press I can detect when a spent primer was drawn back into the pocket. The primer "bottoms out" before the handle is pushed all the way forward when attempting to seat a new primer. It has a very sensitive feel.

[kenton]

I pulled down a dud from range pickup, powder was fine, it went to the lawn, primer had a very good strike.
Looking at the primer the FTF was from NO compound in the cup!!

I assume I mixed unprocessed case with my primed brass.

[wv109323]

The pistol was a S&W moeel 14-6. The main spring is stock and the screw is tight. The trigger pull is around 3 1/2 lbs. so I don't think any work has been done on it,though I did not buy it new.
The ammo was loaded on a Star that is dedicated to .38 Spec. It definitely was not a light strike as there was a good impact of the firing pin. The brass was W-W that was SS pin cleaned. I am not sure if it was first deprimed before cleaning because I do deprime first sometimes.
I shoot this revolver in NRA Distinguished Revolver and it has never misfired in the last 5000 rounds.
Primers were 2-3 years old and bought 5000 at a time.
I tossed the round and did not try to analyse the failure.

[Petrol & Powder]

As Larry Gibson correctly pointed out, the more you shoot the greater the possibility of encountering a dud primer. They are rare but nothing is 100% reliable. We can get awfully close to 100% but we can never get there.

[nicholst55]

The more you shoot both factory and your own reloads the more such things you will encounter. I've had numerous FTF (dud primers) with factory (all makes) and with milsurp (even US match ammunition). I've also had FTF with just about every make of primer. None are completely 100% reliable. There will always be a certain amount, albeit a small amount, of failure. That's why "immediate action" drills are taught.

The more you shoot, the more you will experience...…...

I encountered several rounds of USGI Match ammo with dead primers over the years. On all of them, it appeared that the lacquer used to seal the primer was too thin and ran into the primer pellet and killed it. I reprimed a few of these rounds, and they all went bang.

[LenH]

I have had several FTFs but can count them on one hand. I have had 3 or 4 with rifle loads, they just wouldn't go bang. But out of 20,000 or so Wolf primers in
a Wad gun only 3 FTF's have occurred and during a Bullseye match.

[Froogal]

I've experienced many failures with CCI primers, but out of many thousands of rounds, only ONE fail to fire with Winchester primers.

[ioon44]

I shoot 10's of thousands of Winchester primers each year and never had a bad primmer, as others have stated it is most likely a reloading problem.

[Burnt Fingers]

TRUE! Good thought. Mostly on small primers, in my experience. Hence Dillon's spring-loaded de-cappers and the RCBS Pow'r Punch de-cappers. Thankfully on my press I can detect when a spent primer was drawn back into the pocket. The primer "bottoms out" before the handle is pushed all the way forward when attempting to seat a new primer. It has a very sensitive feel.

I can too. However my buddy.....not so much.

I think I've had two slip through on me in the last 25,000 rounds or so. I blame those on my wife asking me inane questions while I'm trying to reload. :)