Looking for black powder low pressure load data for my 10 gauge

[Tripplebeards]

I have a 1890’s SxS Charles Daly 2 7/8” 10 gauge I’d like to load up some low pressure loads for. My goal is to harvest a turkey or two with it. My plan is to load #5, #4,and or #6’s...or maybe a duplex load of 5 & 6’s? I just received a copy of the the 7th edition of the mighty 10 gauge and looks like it only has higher pressure loadings in it. I have plenty of time as my gun has been at the gunsmith for a few seasons now. He’s my buddy and knows it was a no rush job and basically does all my work a no charge in trade for bow hunting my property. It was missing a hammer so I ordered a pair from Dixie gun works and sent them to him. The square centers have to be cut out yet and also drilled and tapped to hold the hammer in place that’s missing. It looks like the screw either rounded out or Snapped off. I picked it up at a yard sale about 20 years ago for $45. It was pretty rusty and seized up. I took it apart and polished it up. I figured I’d have my smith check it over to make sure it can be safely fired while he has it. I sent some RST shells with for him to test It out.

Anyways I have plenty of time to get ready to figure out how to load for it. I did buy a couple of boxes of RST 1 1/4oz light load #5’s to try. I’d like to load some of my own as well. Any suggestions where I can find 10 gauge black powder equivalent load data? I see track off of Wolf has a 10 page pamphlet on loading brass shells but I’m guessing no load data.

My gun...

https://i.imgur.com/ltgRlAi.jpg


I’ve have tried to find info on the gun but there really isn’t much into out there. I believe it’s more of a plain Jane entry level SXS model as there isn’t much scroll work on the side plates. From the few stampings from what I could find the info I could find said it was made around the 1890’s. It had 30” or 32” barrels I’d I remember correctly.

[megasupermagnum]

Any reason you can't just use blackpowder? 90 grains of Fg blackpowder and 1 1/4 ounces of shot is a fine load in my muzzleloader, should fit in your 2 7/8" hulls with room to spare, and will be more than safe. I'd feel a lot better with blackpowder if I wanted to up the load to say 1 1/2 ounce for turkey too, it is much more forgiving.

[MT Chambers]

A DRAM of black is approx. 27 grains of black, so if they recommend (on orig. shell box) 4 drams. equiv., you need 100 grs. of black powder. You will need compression to make the charge fit along with a wad column, including a wad or wafer of BP lube. Note that if you under load with BP it will be tough to hit any thing flying. A three dram load of BP shot way behind the skeet birds I was trying to hit(12 ga.)

[MOA]

I'd be loading brass shot shells from Track of the wolf or Buffalo Arms with black. Adding nitro card over powder wads with felt filler wads with a nitro on top of the last felt filler then the shot capped with another hard over shot card and sealed with waterglass. It would be nice to have paper hulls in 2-7/8 but no one makes them so brass is the way to go unless you use plastic with black powder. Paper or brass would be better I would think. Circle fly is a good supplier of 10 ga components. I came across a great buy on waterglass on Amazon for sealing all my over shot wads. Should last me the rest of my life unless it goes bad over time. :razz::razz::razz:

https://i.postimg.cc/0QTZWv4m/20190407_120741.jpg (https://postimg.cc/wykhMCgT)

[MT Chambers]

Wads will be diff. size for brass vs/paper or plastic at least they are in the 12 ga., a lube cookie of bp lube in your wad column will help with fouling.

[6pt-sika]

Look I’m not trying to start an argument or step on anyone’s toes , but I have a bunch of 10 gauge damascus and steel twist doubles some as early as 1880 and I ain’t shooting that black c..r..a..p in any of them . There are plenty low pressure loads for a short 10 using smokeless .

[6pt-sika]

If you wanna do it yourself get some nice new Remington PLASTIC hulls and trim to 2 7/8” then prime them with a CCI or WIN 209 , add 19 grains of Red Dot and seat a REM SP-10 was put two or three .125” nitro wads in the bottom of the shot cup add 1 1/8 ounces of shot and put an overshot card then fold crimp that’s my skeet/trap/sporting load and it does well for dove . You might only need two nitro cards and you can do away with the overshot card I just do that to keep the crimp flat . That is a very very low octane load . NOW I guarantee that load in MY GUNS you load it an shoot it in yours that’s on you .

[6pt-sika]

My initial 10 gauge load was and is same Hull and was but with 30 grains SR7625 one .125” nitro card in the bottom of the cup with 1 1/4 ounces shot and an overshot card . That’s an excellent all around load . I’ve used that for bird shot bismuth shot buckshot and slugs just some wont need the nitro wad and or over shot card . And I keep the payload between 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 ounces . And once again in my guns it works in yours maybe not . Incidentally this was a load Ross Seyfried published in Handloader about twenty years ago . NOW they don’t make SR7625 any longer but I have enough to last ME a good long while , there are other things that can be good for the same application but I’ve not bothered with any yet .

[Markopolo]

i think you should just forget about like I been telling you and send that thing up here to me!!!!!:bigsmyl2:

[megasupermagnum]

Look I’m not trying to start an argument or step on anyone’s toes , but I have a bunch of 10 gauge damascus and steel twist doubles some as early as 1880 and I ain’t shooting that black c..r..a..p in any of them . There are plenty low pressure loads for a short 10 using smokeless .

Sacrilegious! No finer powder has ever been made for a classic shotgun than the holy black.:bigsmyl2:

[6pt-sika]

Sacrilegious! No finer powder has ever been made for a classic shotgun than the holy black.:bigsmyl2:

You reimburse me for the cost of mine and we’ll discuss using that stuff . But as long as they’re mine and I paid the bill that stuff and mine will never meet .

[RMc]

For reference: Black powder and current low pressure nitro-powder loads. Author: Ross Seyfried

Article and 10 gauge data:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/blackpowder-shotshell-loading/361504

12 Gauge data:

https://content.osgnetworks.tv/shootingtimes/content/photos/Blackpowder-for-Shotshells-5.jpg

16 Gauge Data:

https://content.osgnetworks.tv/shootingtimes/content/photos/Blackpowder-for-Shotshells-4.jpg

[Cap'n Morgan]

For reference: Black powder and current low pressure nitro-powder loads. Author: Ross Seyfried

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/blackpowder-shotshell-loading/361504

Thanks for the link. I always liked Ross Seyfried's writings: always to the point, and an excellent command of the English language.


There is an attendant wonder about black powder: that ancient plume of smoke. Without a good wind or a fast-crossing bird, you have no idea of the result of your shot until the bird either flies out through the side or tumbles out of the bottom of the cloud. That momentary mystery does not detract from the wonder of it all.

[sharps4590]

I always thought of Ross as 1st class and have used a lot of his data and info over the decades. As well as enjoyed simply reading his many articles.

BP is for those who have learned to use it...like Ross Seyfried. Those who don't know how resort to smokeless.

[John Boy]

Echo Mt Chambers post, minor changes
10ga 4drams (109gr) - use Fg powder 1oz shot = Light Load, approx 1040 fps

[megasupermagnum]

BP is for those who have learned to use it...like Ross Seyfried. Those who don't know how resort to smokeless.

You have that backwards. Blackpowder is idiot proof. You can't mess it up. Smokeless on the other hand you have to be absolutely certain on what you are doing.

[6pt-sika]

BP is for those who have learned to use it...like Ross Seyfried. Those who don't know how resort to smokeless.

You got your opinion and I have mine . BP for me is only useful in a couple original ML’s . I am most certainly not using it in several thousand dollar closed action double barrels . Say what you want but the residue will get into the action . I’m not taking a hammerless D grade apart just to shoot that mess . There are just way to many NEGATIVES in my opinion for that junk .

[sharps4590]

No, you can't mess up using BP in a shotgun but, to use it with accuracy, in rifles, you will have to learn to jump through some more hoops.

Really 6pt.? I find that amusing. I've used it for a few decades in a couple double rifles of significant value, several thousands each, an early drilling, a couple combination guns, both of considerable value and, more than one double gun, a couple of which carried significant value. They were/are all in pristine condition and oddly were black powder guns originally, dating from the 1840's through the late 1880's. I guess they knew better how to care for their arms back then as there was NO SIGNS of corrosion or pitting anywhere except for around the nipples of my Manton M/L shotgun. You may call BP junk but you do so erroneously. And, I can only assume you know what is commonly said about opinions.

[6pt-sika]

No, you can't mess up using BP in a shotgun but, to use it with accuracy, in rifles, you will have to learn to jump through some more hoops.

Really 6pt.? I find that amusing. I've used it for a few decades in a couple double rifles of significant value, several thousands each, an early drilling, a couple combination guns, both of considerable value and, more than one double gun, a couple of which carried significant value. They were/are all in pristine condition and oddly were black powder guns originally, dating from the 1840's through the late 1880's. I guess they knew better how to care for their arms back then as there was NO SIGNS of corrosion or pitting anywhere except for around the nipples of my Manton M/L shotgun. You may call BP junk but you do so erroneously. And, I can only assume you know what is commonly said about opinions.
Sounds like our admiration for each other is mutual and one in the same .

[sharps4590]

I've always thought well of your posts and by extension, you and as far as I recollect we pretty much agree on most things. We happen to disagree about black powder and shooting it. For me, I'll use it if it's original to the firearm, regardless of the expense of the firearm and you don't use it for essentially the same reason....and you come up with a comment like that? I am assuredly aware that my opinion suffers the same fate as everyone else's.

[elk hunter]

Look at the Parker collectors site under reloading for low pressure 10 gauge loads by Pete Lester; http://parkerguns.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21

[Reverend Al]

You have to register as a member of the Parker collectors site to be able to download the pdf file ... bit of a pain since I doubt I'd ever go back to the site again. Has anyone downloaded his pdf that could post it here instead?

[toallmy]

I bookmarked it for later , thanks

[17nut]

You got your opinion and I have mine . BP for me is only useful in a couple original ML’s . I am most certainly not using it in several thousand dollar closed action double barrels . Say what you want but the residue will get into the action . I’m not taking a hammerless D grade apart just to shoot that mess . There are just way to many NEGATIVES in my opinion for that junk .

How???
If the cartridge packs tight and the primer does'nt pierce then how will the holy black sneak it's way into the action? Please enlighten us dumb folks!
I have shot literally more than 500lbs of black and have never ever encountered it in the action of a firearm. Am i doing something wrong?

[flint45]

Some people just have a fear of the unknown and it is feed by people at the range and elsewhere who don't have experience with black powder. It's actually very easy to clean up especially in a break open breech loader. It won't fill the action I have been shooting it in shotguns like yours for decades zero problems.

[Tripplebeards]

I just got news that I will finally be getting my gun back. My Smith is bringing it with when he comes down for muzzleloading the week after thanksgiving. Cant wait to finally be able to shoot it for the first time!

[toallmy]

Good let us know how it goes

[MOA]

Great news.

[Tripplebeards]

If all goes well my SxS will be here tomorrow!

[Tripplebeards]

Hammers on! My plan is to rub the bluing off the surface of the hammers and leave the dark bluing in the etched design so it matches the gun better. I’ll also round off the screw head so it matches the original round faced screw on the other side. My buddy who did the work waited to fire it till he came down with the gun. I got the honors of the first two rounds. I drew a couple of turkey targets and stood back 20 yards. I used RST #5’s. This was my first shot of of the gun...

https://i.imgur.com/rWOeCh3.jpg

I put 22 or 23 holes of #5 in it. I order a box of 1 1/4oz RST #6’s to try.

Here are the hammers. The post that was missing the hammer was bent a little so the hammer on that post sits higher just a hair. Close enough for me as the work was free, the gun was $45, and the hammers and screws were $63. Man is this gun a blast to shoot! We shot it a total of 7 times. I busted a flying clay pigeon my fist and only try. I only had 2 boxes of 10 RST shells on hand and wanted to save some for turkey hunting next week.

https://i.imgur.com/jMM1L2r.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WYrcpe5.jpg

The gun has a lot of character wear and a good amount of patina on the barrels. I polished off the the rust from the receiver back in the 90’s and polished it. It still looks pretty shiny. I also polished a spot on the barrel where there was a dent that is now 99% gone after trying to push it out. I’ll try and patina that spot with some vinegar. So should I leave the gun alone or should I clean off the barrels and retire the dark lines of the Damascus and also redo the wood? I’m sure it will never look perfect but it will look pretty nice when done. Just wondering value wise if I should just clean some of the bluing off the hammer and call it done?

Hopefully someone can help me with determining it’s age. It’s stamped 396. From what I’ve gathered Charles Daly stated importing a 100 guns a year in 1875. So I would guess it’s an 1878 model?

Cant wait to drill a big gobbler with it!

[Tripplebeards]

I just polished the bluing off the hammers so it just stayed in the detailing but I don't have access to post a picture right now but they blend right in and look like they belong in the gun now

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: I'd just leave it like it is. If you don't want to get into a complete refurbish, what you've got right now looks proper for a gun of that age.

Sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

3B: I'd just leave it like it is. If you don't want to get into a complete refurbish, what you've got right now looks proper for a gun of that age.

Sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.

Randy

I agree Randy. It has some deep gouges in the barrel and receiver in areas along with some gouges in the wood. I believe I would loose to much material trying to make it look like new. I like the way it looks right now anyways.


Heres one of the hammers after I buffed off the bluing. It matches my receiver now and looks aged with patina. Now the hammers and receiver color just about match just like all the rest of the old Charles Daly Damascus SxS’s I’ve seen on the net.

https://i.imgur.com/JfWIdmU.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

I can tell you I could make the barrel look a lot better. I sanded the spot where there was a dent when I bought in the mix 90’s. I pulled sone of the dent out and my buddy worked on it a little tapping with a brass hammer. There was abs still are a few hammer dimples in it. I tried to smooth it today with 400 grit and then used a few coats of Oxpho blue over the area and sanded the bluing lightly with 400 grit till I had a nice looking domascus showing. I cleaned the spot with vinegar trying to etch it first. It lightened up the spot. After my oxpho bluing and sanding the shiny spot I sanded 25 years ago blends in pretty good. I think I’ll leave the rest of the gun alone.

The bottom barrel is the oxpho bluing I did today. Boy that domascus sure would look pretty if I did the barrels. I just figured it might deter from the value. I’ll quit and call it a shotgun.

https://i.imgur.com/sGF3auF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1bY7usp.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

The receiver was polished like chrome and since I’m not restoring it I figure I better put some patina on it I put a little bit of Oxbow blue in various spots and blotted some vinegar on it to make it look like patina and Parkerizing. I figure if I don’t like it I get bored with it I can always strip it back off.

https://i.imgur.com/jh5vReF.jpg

[quail4jake]

Looks great! It has honest wear and patina. Those barrels look like crolle damascus, which is one of the nicer patterns. You could try Laurel Forge browning solution to rust brown and bring up that contrast, the real browning on damascus barrels is done by Batchelder in MN(?)...we recently had a set of barrels done by them and they turned out beautiful with microweld repairs to some spots. They charge money... Browning solution is less and it doesn't brown deep. Good luck!

[Tripplebeards]

Looks great! It has honest wear and patina. Those barrels look like crolle damascus, which is one of the nicer patterns. You could try Laurel Forge browning solution to rust brown and bring up that contrast, the real browning on damascus barrels is done by Batchelder in MN(?)...we recently had a set of barrels done by them and they turned out beautiful with microweld repairs to some spots. They charge money... Browning solution is less and it doesn't brown deep. Good luck!

Thanks I was second guessing my Parkerizing job. I figured even if it’s not original it still looks nice and it cut way down on the shine for hunting. The receiver looked like bright polished chrome. I cleaned the rust off and polished it with chrome polish back in the 90’s. My plan was always to make it usable and go out and shoot and shoot a big Tom turkey with. When I was deer hunting the other day I had about 30 turkeys walk within 15 or 20 yards and wish I had it! When anterless only season is over Sunday I’ll go out the next day and try it out. I’ve had a flock of young turkeys roost within a 100 yards or less of me every day this past week. After I drill a couple turkeys whether they plan on mounting a fan behind it and hanging it on the wall.

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: I think what you've got right now looks pretty good for a gun of that age. Everything matches. so? I was a little worried when I saw the pic in post #33, but realized it was just the lighting that made it look copper toned.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Yep, it looked like a bright shiny silver/chrome bumper. The receiver was solid rust when I bought it. I sanded and polished it decades ago right after I bought it. The firing pins and the one existing hammer was rusted and frozen solid in place before I started so I went to town cleaning and polishing at the time.

[Tripplebeards]

After restoring a few rimfires the last couple of weeks I was brave enough to cap off a four foot 3” piece of PVC tube and insert my barrel in it and fill it with vinegar. I soaked it for and hour or so. I then removed it and sanded it all down with 400 grit sandpaper. I then put it back in over night. I had dark spotting from the vinegar the next day so I had to to go through and sand it with 320 and 400 grit sandpaper for an hour or two to remove the rest of the imperfections. I then wiped it down with Oxpho blue (only bluing I had in hand, someday maybe I’ll brown it) and then lightly sanded off the top coating with a foam backed sandpaper that came with a plastic buffing kit. I’m sure it was 1000 to 1200 grit. I knocked off the bluing on the surface and left the domascus pattern dark. There are still a few deep dings and small imperfections but it looks a million times better. Imo it turned out quite nice. It doesn’t look like a dark spotted rusty old barrel and more and I can see the domascus pattern clearly everywhere I look now. I working on the wood now. I didn’t realize it was loose and cracked under the left side of the trigger guard. I filed the crack with acraglass and claimed it overnight. I degreased the stock the best I could and raised about 95% of the dents. There are going to be a few that are so deep that they won’t come out. I will have to get creative. I saw Larry Potterfield fill in with sawdust and epoxy mix. I’ll have to give it a try. The wood looks way to light now. I’ll have to pick up some black walnut stain to apply to hide some of the imperfections before I apply tongue oil and wax. Hope black walnut is the correct color. My stock was pretty dark to begin with.

https://i.imgur.com/YPeKnt6.jpg

That’s to a member here I have some reloading goodies to get started. I’m down to finding some 5 or 6 lead shot for turkey hunting now. All that’s at the the LGS is 7, 71/2, 8.

[PennStateCarry]

Just to answer one of your initials questions about Track's pamphlet, it indeed has very little load data. The whole reason I bought it was in hopes of some data since Ballistics Products only have brass shell loads for 12, 16, and 20. The pamphlet is well put together and goes over loading techniques, terms, and practices. The one load listed that works best in the author's gun is fairly hot at 4 1/2 drams propelling 1 1/2 ounces of bismuth shot. I doubt I'll be using it in my 1894.

Since Track is out of cushion wads, I am going to try using a 7/8 inch ID pipe to serve as a mold for paper mache wads. I know they are available other places, but I'm already using an arch punch for making over-shot and over-powder cards so might as well become fully self-sufficient in that arena. It'll be a lot cheaper than buy sheets of 1/4 inch felt I think. My goal is also to develop a turkey load for this spring. My starting point is going to be 3 1/2 drams (96 grains) of FFG propelling 1 1/2 ounces of #6 shot and seeing where that gets me.

[Greg5278]

Have You tried Circle Fly Wads? I believe Owner's name was Craig. He could punch almost any size of Filler Wad/Card.
I've used Him numerous times, and He often has stock that no one else does.

They only material that He does not have is the heavy Wax impregnated Card stock. I think only Fiocchi makes that special item.
It would probably save You some work for experimenting.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[PennStateCarry]

I use Circle Fly for all of my 12 gauge shooting, but want to play around with the 10 a bit. If my results are awful, I’ll probably buy 500 sized at 9 gauge!

[Tripplebeards]

Well, after just refinishing three three guns in a row during our cold spell in the last few weeks I was brave enough to refinish my 10 gauge. I refinished the barrel and wood. It’s not perfect but imo it looks a million times better. There are still some dings in the metal and wood so it still has an old weathered look.

https://i.imgur.com/wkNHmQB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YPeKnt6.jpg

I ordered up a box of RST #6’s for turkey hunting back up if I didn’t get to reloading yet. I wasn’t to impressed with the group of the RST #5’s. I was sent wads from another member to get started, thank you BTW! I picked up a mighty 10 gauge load manual. I also picked up a bunch of various kinds of black powder along with green dot, red dot, unique, and 700x from a widow liquidating her passed husbands stash. I have some saved hulls from my 3.5” 10 gauge I can cut down. I also picked up a lee loader from another member here and have an old plastic 8 point crimp starter to get the shorter 2 7/8” hulls crimp fold over so I can finish them off in the longer lee loader. If not I’ll just cut the crimp off and glue a cardboard disk over the shot. I am down to finding some 5 or 6 shot,preferably 6, and some brass 2 7/8” shells so they will match my 1873 Charles Daly time wise. Turkey hunting is a month and a half away. I better get looking for lead!

I skimmed the mighty 10 gauge load data and it looked like no loads were larger then 1 1/4oz of shot for Damascus barrels. I’d really like a 2 oz or close to it load.


I figured after a few more coats of BLO I’ll wax the wood furniture to make it waterproof. I would assume this how the wood was finished by Charles Daly back in 1973?

[Tripplebeards]

I finally loaded up a few shells and headed to the range yesterday...

I loaded up a few light loads with DuPont FG and worked my way up in powder charge weights/loads today. My left barrel definitely has a tighter choke than my right. I started with 1 3/8 oz loads of #6 and worked my way up to a square load of 4.5 drams (116 grains of FG) and 1 5/8 oz load of #6 listed on track of the wolf. The best patterns came from a powder charge of 100 grains of FG along with 1 5/8oz of nickel plated #6’s. The recoil with the 100 grain, 1 5/8 oz load was pretty comparable, if not just a hair more recoil, to the RST 1 1/4oz loads. It was the funnest time I’ve had in a long time with my pants on.lol

Here are my best two targets out of the 10 rounds I tried today. They were patterned at 25 yards. I had 40 hits using one single 1/4” nitro card over 100 grains of DuPont FG and 1 5/8 oz of BPI nickel plated #6’s. I glued a shot card over the top. The second best load was exactly the same accept I split one of the nitro cards in half and seated it on top of the first nitro card.


https://i.imgur.com/5uuuikL.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/rTcnQDs.jpg


A few other targets with left a d right barrel comparison patterns. The right kept blowing the pattern. Two of my loads were 15 and 16 hits with the right barre...The best with the right barrel was 21 hits.

https://i.imgur.com/WyFYjHx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AmHeRAY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/COy8CDc.jpg

Here were my loads...


https://i.imgur.com/DjKc4K8.jpg

I tried to video a few shots and placed my gun across my arm instead of my shoulder. It was a little sore yesterday. Almost gone this morning. Done it many of times with every gun I own off the bench at one time or another. Next time I’ll shoot standing up.

[Tripplebeards]

I removed the side plates today to inspect for any signs of stress or cracks in the wood furniture... everything looked great. I gave the wood under the side plates another good coat of boiled Lind seed oil, greased the side plates and triggers, re cleaned the barrel, and gave the complete gun a coat of boiled Lind seed oil. I loaded up my 11 empty hulls with a 100 grain FG/1 5/8oz #6's. I trimmed them all down to approx the same height. Would have gave myself a C- on the trim job. I canceled my brass shell order figuring 11 rounds will last me a few seasons of turkey hunting. I have a few more RST loads to shoot up so i have couple more hulls for reloading.

https://i.imgur.com/BVeWIhi.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: If you get a Roll Crimp Tool you can finish those hulls and not have to mess with the glue. They will look better too.

That one Fold Crimp in the first pic looked close. Did you use your drill press to push it closed?

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

I used a black plastic 8 point crimp starter like the one you posted. Then I used a rubber mallet to tap on my lee loader to get it to tuck down flat. I definitely will have to get a 10 gauge roll crimper.

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: Do you have a Drill Press? I thought you had said somewhere that you did? What I found on the last go round with using the Lee Loader was the pre-crimp had to be squished down several times to get it to close down like I showed in the pic. The press did this best and I tried a small dead blow hammer and a plastic mallet too. They just wouldn't hold the pre crimper tool down long enough for the pre crimp to take a set.

Same with the Final Crimp. I had to push it down several times to get it to look right. Maybe a cheap HF 1/2 ton Arbor press if you don't have a Drill Press.

With the Drill Press you could chuck up a piece of 1/2" dowel for a pusher to push on the Pre Crimp tool and the Final Crimp Die.

Also with the Roll Crimp Tool, I pre heat it using my Heat Gun and then coat the inside of the tool with Vaseline which makes the plastic flow nicer. This will make it perform much easier with the cordless drill.

Like I said earlier, there is a Learning Curve with these tools so don't get Frustrated.

We'll help you get the process perfected.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

I don’t own a drill press. I used the force of my hands to start the crimp with a plastic 8 point crimp starter that looks like an inch long plastic bottle cap. Like the one you posted a photo of. I then put the round in my lee loader and tapped it with a hammer till I got it to close up flush. I’ll have to order a 4 pin roll crimper and find a drill press. I have a hand held cordless drill but no press. I figured if I roll crimp I can use them in my semi auto gold as well.

[megasupermagnum]

You can roll crimp just fine with a hand drill. I have a drill press, but use a hand drill exclusively for roll crimping. It is much easier than carrying shells to the garage.

[Cap'n Morgan]

What MegaMag says.
This is what I use most of the time - a drill press makes for a more even result and is great for larger batches, but a hand drill is... well, handy. If placed on a not-too-slick surface, you don't need any fancy shell holder.

https://i.imgur.com/n6mHry4.jpg

[sharps4590]

Like the Cap'n says, the drill press gives nicer, more consistent crimps and like mega, my drill press is in the detached shop, up the hill sooooo, I use a battery drill also.

Get the roll crimper, you cannot possibly regret it. One day one of those glued in OSC's will let go and you'll hear the distinct sound of shot rolling out the barrel.

[Tripplebeards]

I removed the side plates today to inspect for any signs of stress or cracks in the wood furniture... everything looked great. I gave the wood under the side plates another good coat of boiled Lind seed oil, greased the side plates and triggers, re cleaned the barrel, and gave the complete gun a coat of boiled Lind seed oil. I loaded up my 11 empty hulls with a 100 grain FG/1 5/8oz #6's. I trimmed them all down to approx the same height. Would have gave myself a C- on the trim job. I canceled my brass shell order figuring 11 rounds will last me a few seasons of turkey hunting. I have a few more RST loads to shoot up so i have couple more hulls for reloading.

https://i.imgur.com/BVeWIhi.jpg


Did I leave enough excess hull above my shot card to be able to roll crimp and do my cases have to be cut perfectly even?


I just ordered the Cadillac of the three rollers I could find. The $49, quad pin roller from the reloaders network. Didn't know it was “loads of bacon” who makes them. I’ve watched a lot of his expanding cast hollow point videos. I figured buy the time I ordered either the one pin from ballistic products or two pin roller from precision reloading and paid shipping and tax for $10 (or less)I could get the 4 pin with free shipping and zero tax. The 4 pin seems give a nicer crimp and work a lot better. I see a lot of 12 gauge and smaller roll pins from Russia on eBay for $12 or less bit no one makes an economy knock off in 10 gauge or I would have probably got cheap and ordered one.

https://i.imgur.com/CND7tfa.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B; Yes a hand held drill will work just fine. I use my milling machine because it is opposite my bench and it is convenient. You'll just run your drill on slow speed. I run around 200 rpms but it is not that critical.

When I was talking Drill Press I was mainly looking at you using it as an Arbor Press with the Lee Loader. However it would work nice for Roll Crimping too.

You need something to hold onto the hulls while you're roll crimping. If you are doing more than a few your hand gets tired trying to hold them so they don't rotate.

I made this.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

I'm using the old lee "hand tools type" loader. I'll have to make something to hold my shells while I crimp them.

[Tripplebeards]

So how many times can I Re roll crimp a shell on average? Do I need to keep trimming it down after every shot?

[Markopolo]

i doubt the plastic hulls will last more then a few shots with BP... that is why I use the brass shells with bp.. all the plastic ones I used in the past tended to melt.

sure love the gun Trip. you have done a fine job on it, and I love the damascus's pattern you brought out... it really looks cool!

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B go to the sticky On Roll Crimping at the top of this forum and read thru it. There is alot of good info that should answer most of your questions. Lots of people contributed and the subject got covered pretty well.

Randy

[dsh1106]

Tripplebeards
If you go the this link

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/static/subpage/faq

FQA #20 provides some black powders loads for muzzle loader shotguns, not sure how applicable that will be for your situation.

Scott

[Tripplebeards]

I am still waiting for my roll crimper to arrive and figured I wanted to waterproof my stock a little better than putting a coat of wax over 16 coats of BLO. I applied 3 coats of minwax antique finish over the top. Apparently is varnish and tung mixed together. It put a nice sheen over the stock. Not perfect, but it's getting to nice to hunt with.lol

https://i.imgur.com/bSxjfCR.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: that came out nice!

I used the Minwax "Helmsman" spray Polyurethane on my A5 wood and it is very durable. It is some of the easiest spray finish I have ever used. Mist is so fine you can't hardly screw it up. I did about 6-8 thin coats and cooked them for 2+hours between coats in the heater closet in the house.

Came out good, and is on there to stay.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

The antique oil is a wipe on finish. I applied the first coat and sanded with 600 grit sandpaper and buffed off the excess antique oil with an old sock. The next two coats I applied and buffed off in approx 5 minutes. I didn't want it to shiny so I quit after 3 coats.

[RustyReel]

I like it. Shiny but not glossy. Great looking stock and good job!

[Tripplebeards]

I went out today and tried 40 yards and 50 yards with my same RST hulls using 692 grains of BPI #6’s and 100 grains of Fg. The only difference was I roll crimped them this time VS just gluing in an over shot card.

I had 12 hits in my turkey head target at 40 yards and only 5 hits at 50 yards. I then tried the same load but in a federal hull. I had 13 hits at 40 yards. I put a pop can behind my 50 yard target. The #6 BPI nickel plated pellets passed through the cardboard box my target was stapled to and then completely through the pop can I placed in the box to test for penetration. I don’t plan on taking a 50 a yard shot but if for some reason my bird hangs up at 40 yards I won’t hesitate to shoot it. I can tell you if that was a real bird at 50 yards today it would have been dead as a door nail IMO. One pellet to the brain and one in the neck vertebrae. Same with the RST hull 40 yard shot. I guess I just get lucky a lot with a pellet to the brain.


My first target i shot with a roll crimp RST hull at 40 yards...


https://i.imgur.com/mErXePO.jpg

My second shot with the same load at 50 yards...


https://i.imgur.com/mLoJ4lv.jpg


And here was my last test at 40 yards with the same load but with a federal hull...

https://i.imgur.com/If2YL78.jpg

I must have had a “hot” pellet or piece of powder melt part of one of my RST cases. Here is picture of the fired hulls after I slid them onto my dowel and heated the crimps with a heat gun to straighten them out...

https://i.imgur.com/ZlZBRns.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s6LoIP5.jpg

When I inspected it the hole did not burn all the way through but I took the shell out of service just to be safe. The other two cases look great yet. I might order some brass case in the near future.

So in the future if I didn’t burn a hole completely through a case I would assume I can still load it again?

[RustyReel]

I had a similar experience shooting a few 12 ga BP loads. 3 ea RP Gun Club fired cases and 3 Rio new cases. 5 of the 6 had small holes after firing. I was shooting round balls so no "hot Pellets" in those loads. I just tossed the cases as 12's are pretty easy to find.

[Tripplebeards]

I had a similar experience shooting a few 12 ga BP loads. 3 ea RP Gun Club fired cases and 3 Rio new cases. 5 of the 6 had small holes after firing. I was shooting round balls so no "hot Pellets" in those loads. I just tossed the cases as 12's are pretty easy to find.



Must have been a nice big chunk of an Fg gradual that stuck to my case.

[Tripplebeards]

Well, a follow up to this post. Today was my turkey opener. I got a dandy Tom! He came in full strut around 10:48 AM. I let the hammer fly and when the smoke cleared he was on the ground. I didn’t weigh the bird but can tell it has to be one one heaviest birds I have ever shot. It has 2 beards, 10.5” and 7.1/4”. The Spurs were 1.5”. I used megasupermagnums suggested load. Thanks for the help!

https://i.imgur.com/3qLmo1K.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XNKAs1u.jpg

[longbow]

Looks like you got this all figured out!

Congratulations! Nice Tom! And with a BP load in an old timer! And with the smell of sulphur in the air! What more could a guy ask for!?! Okay, a nice cold beer... but that's it!

Good going!

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

Lol... I took the barrels off and left them in my house while I cleaned the bird today. I walked back in my house 20 minutes later and the WHOLE HOUSE smelled like burnt sulfur. Boy, does that leave a strong odor but luckily I like the smell! I’m going to mount the fan and beard...and hang my gun below it.

[longbow]

If I could find someone to make perfume that smells like burnt BP and my wife would wear it I'd be a happy man! I love the smell! Must be something wrong with me! Even better is being downwind of a fireworks display! The smell of fireworks BP is the best in my considered opinion!!! But the smell of any BP smells good to me!

Yes, you should be proud of that bird and having got it with a nice old gun and BP!

As for the plastic hulls, I don't recall if I ever had a burn through but hulls did not last long with BP. I don't think I'd worry about it though. If it burns through there may be a puff of smoke at the breech but mostly just dirty chamber. If it burned through right at the edge of the head there might be significant leakage but I doubt it anywhere else. I used to reload the 12 ga. hulls until they were so crisped up they were unusable... and that would be maybe 3 reloads.

Brass hulls would be better, or even paper hulls. Federal still makes paper 12 ga. not sure about 10 ga.

Longbow

[Jeremy]

I have a Parker Hammer gun 10 , Damascus ,also a Remingto 12 that I have many low pressure loads for. I have 2-7/8"Rocky Mountain Brass cases and I am sick of cleaning Black powder and Pyrodex out of this beautiful gun . I have Circle Fly :1/8 " Nitro cards, 1/2" fiber wads and overshot cards . I have 2 plus lbs of 7625 and only half a pound plus of PB.I also have Red N Green dot and Unique. Can you give me some low pressure loads using these components. I am way out in the boondocks and am waiting for price to com down on loading supplies ...if it ever will! .I have lots of load Data for my Remington hammerless Damascus . The highest pressures I have shot are 5900 LUP in the 10 and 5000 in the 12;. Can you help me ?:

[Greg]

Jeremy

Alliant Powder has 11/4 once Green Dot published loads..

and call The Double Gun Journal and get the (2) issues of Sherman Bell's low pressure 10 gauge loads, along with Ross Seyfried's articles on low pressure 10 gauge loads with newer powders, since SR 4756 and SR 7625 have been discontinued.

[Tripplebeards]

That time of year again! I bought a quad pin 10 gauge roller last year and rolled my crimps. I did it with a drill by hand. Took a good 10 minutes just to do one crimp nice and half way even. Also a really sore hand in the process. I still have a few 2 7/8” BP 1 5/8oz #6 shells loaded from last year so I’m all set with the Charles Daly. I loaded up a few 3.5” 2 oz #6s for my 10 gauge Browning gold last year to try for a test pattern. I finally patterned it and at 40 yards last week. The load has more hits on my turkey target than any 10 gauge factory loads. I had nine Federal cases and a few x10x and Remington sp10 wads given to me by another member here. I had just enough left to do my 9 shells. I went over to a buddies house and borrowed his drill press. It took all of 3 to four second per crimp. I need a drill press!!!! …along with some x10x spacer wads and sp10 wads now. I might have to load up a few extra 2 7/8” BP shells in the next couple of days. Always nice to have spares!

https://i.imgur.com/Qx8chmj.jpg

Edited: I brushed on some clear nail polish over the shot cards to waterproof them.

[toallmy]

Nice looking shells Sr.

[Tripplebeards]

Thanks, knew I had to start reloading for my modern 10 gauge after finally finding my goto federal grand slam number #5’s last spring and finding out the redesigned ammo won’t chamber in my gun now! Federal decided to roll crimp them and in the process the shells are a half inch longer than their original folded over hull star crimped ammo. Also in the process they pushed down to fast crimping and bulged the roll crimps. The front of the hulls are bigger in diameter than OEM specs! I could manually, and forcefully, push a shell into my chamber shooting the gun like a single shot. They would not cycle and jam every time. I called Federal about the issue. They were well aware of it and seemed not to care. Seems there are numerous hunters having the same issue with federal GS 10 ammo not feeding and functioning. My hand loads that are the same length as factory 3.5” ammo and properly roll crimped cycle flawless so I’m all set. Just wish I had #5 shot instead of #6. I’ll have to order some eventually. I haven’t seen Winchester 10 gauge black hull 2oz, #5 loads in years. I’ll grab some of them up if I ever do again as they pattern as good, or better, than the old #5 federal GS’s.

[Grayone]

Well, a follow up to this post. Today was my turkey opener. I got a dandy Tom! He came in full strut around 10:48 AM. I let the hammer fly and when the smoke cleared he was on the ground. I didn’t weigh the bird but can tell it has to be one one heaviest birds I have ever shot. It has 2 beards, 10.5” and 7.1/4”. The Spurs were 1.5”. I used megasupermagnums suggested load. Thanks for the help!

https://i.imgur.com/3qLmo1K.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XNKAs1u.jpg

That is great! It should give you a huge sense of accomplishment to get this bird after bringing the gun back to life!

[Tripplebeards]

It does. I made a plaque out of an old picture frame I had laying around and mounted the fan behind it. Didn’t like the looks of the mounting kits offered so I made my own.

https://i.imgur.com/oiykzmi.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK 3B !!!,,, that is cool !!!! Randy

[Tripplebeards]

If you look at the beard above the main beard was starting to split into 2. I’m guessing it wouldn’t have been long before this bird would have had tripplebeards I’m guessing.

[Tripplebeards]

Rolled 4 to try yesterday with #5 shot and 100 grains of FG. I cut the hills a little longer this time around. The chamber is 2 7/8” and I cut the hulls to 2 3/4” before roll crimping. Think I’ll be cutting them this long or longer to keep some extra hull length so,if, and when, I need to shorten after shooting I have room to play with.

https://i.imgur.com/0LgKhjc.jpg

Sealed and numbered…

https://i.imgur.com/dgwkS4I.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

Tested the above loads the other day….


https://i.imgur.com/9mF5RiR.jpg



Here are my targets from a few days ago. I tested 100 grains of FG in a Winchester hull. I loaded with a 1/4” nitro wad and 1 5/8oz of #5’s. It didn’t group as tight at 25 yards than my #6 load but IT DID have more hits at 40 yards than my test with #6 nickel plated shot. That was kind of confusing to me. It didn’t pattern any better than the RST load at 25 yards but patterned better than any load I’ve tried at 40 yards to date. At fifty yards I only had 3 hits VS with the #6’s.

I then tested all brass hulls with the same exact load but added a 3/4” fiber cushion was over the 1/4” nitro wad. The groups were poor compared to the plastic hull loads.


Plastic hulls…


25 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/1itc69r.jpg


40 yards….

https://i.imgur.com/n5Z8wyk.jpg


50 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/wPDPsA6.jpg



All brass…


25 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/EYoaIWX.jpg


40 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/ZBqjhsu.jpg