Suppressor questions?

[PNW_Steve]

Do we have any suppressor guru's in the house?

I think that I may finally get off the fence and build (Form 1) a suppressor.

If I had unlimited time and money I would probably build several to accommodate different calibers/guns.

Unfortunately, I don't. So, I am looking at how to get the most out of one suppressor for now.

I would like to eventually have:

.22LR
.223
.243
9mm
.45

I can make a pretty good guess that the. 45 suppressor would be completely useless and perhaps dangerous on the .223

What I would like to know is how effective would a suppressor sized to accommodate the .243 function on the .223 and .22LR be?

How about a .45 suppressor on the 9mm?

I would expect that the increased clearance between the bullet and the baffles would degrade performance but I have no idea how much.

What do you all think?

[Smoke4320]

22 lr will have to be its own suppressor. The small 22lr case will not produce enough gas volume to make a larger centerfire suppressor work
Now I can confirm as will many many of my customers that a Silencerco Hybrid will function just fine in a 9MM handgun and above to 46 cal and 223 and up to and including a 458 socom or 45/70

[PNW_Steve]

22 lr will have to be its own suppressor. The small 22lr case will not produce enough gas volume to make a larger centerfire suppressor work
Now I can confirm as will many many of my customers that a Silencerco Hybrid will function just fine in a 9MM handgun and above to 46 cal and 223 and up to and including a 458 socom or 45/70

Thank you for the information. It sounds like the larger caliber suppressors can work well on lesser calibers with some success. The silencerco unit would be sweet but I am intent on building (form 1) mine.

[Smoke4320]

the unstated idea (my fault) if you can get your hands on a Hybrid you can see the baffle design and get Ideas on what we know will work well for most any centerfire caliber

[PNW_Steve]

You have to type slowly and use small words with me sometimes....

I will look around and see what I can find.

Thank you.

S.

[djryan13]

Get a 30 cal can to work on 223, 6.5, 30

Get a 45 pistol can to work on 9, 40, 45 acp

As stated, 22 gets its own can. Heck they give those things away sometimes if you buy a bigger suppressor.

I have a Hybrid suppressor (.46) which actually can work on some of the pistol and rifle calibers above but I only use it on my 458 Socom. It’s just too big for pistol and not interested in using on rifle.

When you start becoming addicted to suppressors, you will eventually buy a 12ga Salvo and a 338 if you shoot 338 cal.

If I had a BMG, dang right it would be suppressed....

[Geezer in NH]

I have a Mac 11 can with a thread adapter and shoot on 22lr Sounds as quite as my Gemtek outback.

Awful big for a handgun but works nice on a rifle. Can also shoot on a 9mm.

[Larry Gibson]

I have used my 30 cal Sionics in numerous different rifles of 30 cal or lessor caliber including 223/5.56. It works well but not as well as suppressors of the appropriate size for the cartridge. The .224 bullet through the larger opening does let some of the muzzle blast escape. My Gemtech for the 223/5.56 is a bit quieter but you have to be some distance from the gun to notice any difference. Shooting or standing behind the shooter I can tell no difference basically with both on ARs firing 5.56 M193. The Sionics is just a lot larger and heavier. With 22LR using a M261 device in the AR both the Sionics and the Gemtech are as quiet as any other 22LR suppresser with subsonic or sonic ammo.

Same is said with my SilenceCo 45 suppresser. It also is 9mm rated and works as well on a couple 9mm's I've tried it on. Perhaps a bit noisier as the gas exits the muzzle at a higher psi in the 9mm and with the hole for the 45 some gets out. When used on semi-auto handgun the piston is needed for functioning. If you build just one suppressor for all the cartridges listed you'll need adapters for the high power rifle cartridges to replace the piston.

[biffj]

I've been building and selling suppressors for about 20 years and shooting them for a lot longer. You can use a larger bore can for a lot of the smaller stuff and in reality a 30 cal suppressor works really well for sound reduction of the 22LR. The problem with the 22LR is the crap it leaves behind. The ammo is really dirty and with lead bullets you get a build up of carbon from the powder burning, ceramic from a combination of the ground glass in the priming compound and the lead oxide from the bullets and basic lead that comes from vaporized lead off the bullet. It can be a really sticky deposit on the baffles and in the tube that will require cleaning fairly often. I usually clean my 22 cans about every brick or so fired. On the other hand I've got some rifle cans that have thousands of rounds fired and none have ever needed cleaning. The problem with running your 22LR through your rifle can is that the crap will deposit on the baffles and when you fire a round of 223 or 308 which has a lot of heat and blast it can knock the deposits loose. The debris being tossed around can deflect a bullet and it doesn't take much for a baffle strike. Sometimes its not a big deal. Your point of impact will be way off but no real damage to the can. Other times the bullet can damage or destroy baffles. I've seen a couple where the bullets exited the tube after hitting a baffle. Damaging the tube is a bad thing.

I've made up some .338 Lapua magnum suppressors for long range rifles and mine has been used on my 33XC which is like a 338 Lapua magnum magnum. 25% more powder than the lapua with the same bullet. It suppresses very well. Using the same can with the same rifle on a different barrel( switch barrel rifle) I get excellent suppression out of my 6.5X47 Lapua. I've also used the can on some AR15's in 223 and 6.5 Grendel and once again suppression is very good. So if you want to make a can that will fit a variety of rifles make something for the largest cal you shoot. It will likely work just as well with the smaller stuff too. You are much better off doing a dedicated can for rifles, one for pistols and one for 22LR's as the needs of each type are different. A 45 cal can on your 223 won't be as good as your 358 can on your 223 and your rifle can may be a little heavy for your pistol.

I think you're going the right way in doing a form 1 can. I've seen a number of form 1 cans fired side by side with some of the commercial stuff available now and against stuff like the harvester and others I'd take the form 1 cans. Very disappointed in some of the marketer designed suppressors out there that have more glitz and tacticool that real usefulness. Added "features" like the swappable endcaps for different cals are a great money maker for the manufacturer and not so much of a real help for the already marginal can.

NFATalk.com has some interesting info and there are other silencer boards out there too. Talk to some of those guys who will share ideas. The baffles don't need to be complicated to work well. Working out stuff like this for ourselves is what made the country great. Keep at it and let us know how your project goes.

Frank

[PNW_Steve]

I've been building and selling suppressors for about 20 years and shooting them for a lot longer. You can use a larger bore can for a lot of the smaller stuff and in reality a 30 cal suppressor works really well for sound reduction of the 22LR. The problem with the 22LR is the crap it leaves behind. The ammo is really dirty and with lead bullets you get a build up of carbon from the powder burning, ceramic from a combination of the ground glass in the priming compound and the lead oxide from the bullets and basic lead that comes from vaporized lead off the bullet. It can be a really sticky deposit on the baffles and in the tube that will require cleaning fairly often. I usually clean my 22 cans about every brick or so fired. On the other hand I've got some rifle cans that have thousands of rounds fired and none have ever needed cleaning. The problem with running your 22LR through your rifle can is that the crap will deposit on the baffles and when you fire a round of 223 or 308 which has a lot of heat and blast it can knock the deposits loose. The debris being tossed around can deflect a bullet and it doesn't take much for a baffle strike. Sometimes its not a big deal. Your point of impact will be way off but no real damage to the can. Other times the bullet can damage or destroy baffles. I've seen a couple where the bullets exited the tube after hitting a baffle. Damaging the tube is a bad thing.

I've made up some .338 Lapua magnum suppressors for long range rifles and mine has been used on my 33XC which is like a 338 Lapua magnum magnum. 25% more powder than the lapua with the same bullet. It suppresses very well. Using the same can with the same rifle on a different barrel( switch barrel rifle) I get excellent suppression out of my 6.5X47 Lapua. I've also used the can on some AR15's in 223 and 6.5 Grendel and once again suppression is very good. So if you want to make a can that will fit a variety of rifles make something for the largest cal you shoot. It will likely work just as well with the smaller stuff too. You are much better off doing a dedicated can for rifles, one for pistols and one for 22LR's as the needs of each type are different. A 45 cal can on your 223 won't be as good as your 358 can on your 223 and your rifle can may be a little heavy for your pistol.

I think you're going the right way in doing a form 1 can. I've seen a number of form 1 cans fired side by side with some of the commercial stuff available now and against stuff like the harvester and others I'd take the form 1 cans. Very disappointed in some of the marketer designed suppressors out there that have more glitz and tacticool that real usefulness. Added "features" like the swappable endcaps for different cals are a great money maker for the manufacturer and not so much of a real help for the already marginal can.

NFATalk.com has some interesting info and there are other silencer boards out there too. Talk to some of those guys who will share ideas. The baffles don't need to be complicated to work well. Working out stuff like this for ourselves is what made the country great. Keep at it and let us know how your project goes.

Frank

Thank you Everyone for all of the info.

Frank,

You pointed out something that I would have overlooked completely. I had not considered the issue of dirty .22lr leaving junk behind that could cause a baffle strike. That is something I definitely want to avoid.

I really need to temper my enthusiasm or I will get in budget trouble :) One suppressor to start with. If I find it to be a lasting interest down the road i can look at expanding.

I am trying to pick one suppressor that will give me the greatest versatility. I see three options.

Build for my 9mm carbine and use it on the .223 and .243's with somewhat reduced performance.

Build for the .243 and share with the .223 expecting good performance.

Or just build one for .22LR. It would get shot more and cost less.

I will check out Nfatalk.

Thanks again.

S.

[JimB..]

My first can was for .22lr and it’s still a lot of fun.
2nd can was for 38spcl/9mm carbines but also runs on the 300blk SBR, also a lot of fun. Effective 9mm cans have shrunk so I may add a 9mm pistol can next.
I just shoot happen to shoot these more than centerfire rifle, ymmv of course.
Good luck!

[dragon813gt]

Don’t overlook how you’re going to attach the can. The thread size and pitch is different. Larger barrels are typically 5/8x24 while smaller are 1/2x28. Commercial manufacturers overcome this w/ different end caps. You can have a one size fits all approach if the design is modular.

[djryan13]

Nothing wrong with starting with a 22LR suppressor. They do get pretty nasty. Baked on lead/grime. Typically, pistol and 22LR suppressors come apart to clean. The rifle suppressors, not so much. I short a lot of coated ammo in my 30 Cal YHM Phantom. But then I blast a bunch of 30-06 or 308 through it. Kind of cleans it out.

I don’t agree that a 223 cal can is better on a 223 vs a 30 cal can. I have a 223 can which mostly collects dust as the Phantom works just fine. Some say the sound is just “different”. Unless you are running subsonic, you really can’t be screaming for super quiet anyway. I run a lot of 30 cal subsonic (my 30-06 trail boss load almost sounds like a 22LR suppressed). Not a lot of use for subsonic 223 IMO.



Thank you Everyone for all of the info.

Frank,

You pointed out something that I would have overlooked completely. I had not considered the issue of dirty .22lr leaving junk behind that could cause a baffle strike. That is something I definitely want to avoid.

I really need to temper my enthusiasm or I will get in budget trouble :) One suppressor to start with. If I find it to be a lasting interest down the road i can look at expanding.

I am trying to pick one suppressor that will give me the greatest versatility. I see three options.

Build for my 9mm carbine and use it on the .223 and .243's with somewhat reduced performance.

Build for the .243 and share with the .223 expecting good performance.

Or just build one for .22LR. It would get shot more and cost less.

I will check out Nfatalk.

Thanks again.

S.

[NoZombies]

I had the chance to test a number of commercial and form 1 suppressors several years ago using Mil standard testing equipment. My .300 WM rated can was only 1 DB louder on a 5.56 than the same companies 5.56 can. I can also shoot ..243 .257 6.5mm 7mm and .270 through that can, I couldn't do that with the 5.56 can that cost as much and was only 1 DB quieter.

In that same test I saw that there was little loss from using a .45 can on 9mm. My .22 cans are dedicated to .22's though, but that's mostly a matter of weight and size. It's hard to build a 5oz can that's 5" long that can handle much more than 5.7 or maybe a hornet.

Essentially, an effective suppressor design will be effective on smaller calibers as well. Maybe not AS effective as a caliber dedicated can, but all things being equal, the baffle design and volume are bigger factors (within reason) than the aperture in my personal experience.

[djryan13]

Your point about 5.7 in 22LR can reminds me that to offer the advice to make sure the 22LR can you buy can also work with 5.7 if you ever intend to shoot it. I made it a point to make sure because I use mine on FN SBR. Super fun.



I had the chance to test a number of commercial and form 1 suppressors several years ago using Mil standard testing equipment. My .300 WM rated can was only 1 DB louder on a 5.56 than the same companies 5.56 can. I can also shoot ..243 .257 6.5mm 7mm and .270 through that can, I couldn't do that with the 5.56 can that cost as much and was only 1 DB quieter.

In that same test I saw that there was little loss from using a .45 can on 9mm. My .22 cans are dedicated to .22's though, but that's mostly a matter of weight and size. It's hard to build a 5oz can that's 5" long that can handle much more than 5.7 or maybe a hornet.

Essentially, an effective suppressor design will be effective on smaller calibers as well. Maybe not AS effective as a caliber dedicated can, but all things being equal, the baffle design and volume are bigger factors (within reason) than the aperture in my personal experience.

[robg]

use a 22rf mod for rimfire,i use an atec non stripable one costing £30 on my 1022 .for my 223 and 308 i use a 30cal for both works fine.

[Geezer in NH]

use a 22rf mod for rimfire,i use an atec non stripable one costing £30 on my 1022 .for my 223 and 308 i use a 30cal for both works fine.
Here meaning the USA the $200.00 dollar tax and 6-12 month wait is the problem. Also the costs of the can.

Manufactures have to jump through many tax hoops to even make one. Reason why commercial suppressors cost so much.

If they were just controlled like a handgun [here in the USA] prices and sales would be much more. However the PTB still make only outlaws and criminals want them.

If you are a machinist and have a lathe, milling machine I say go the form 1 way making yourself the manufacture. If not Buy a commercial can you will be happier and I bet a lot less disappointed.

[robg]

moderators are no problem since people started quoting health and safety regulations and threatened to sue if their hearing was damaged.suprised the nra in the usa dont bring a test case? all countries have stupid laws ,ours are the pits.

[dragon813gt]

moderators are no problem since people started quoting health and safety regulations and threatened to sue if their hearing was damaged.suprised the nra in the usa dont bring a test case? all countries have stupid laws ,ours are the pits.

It was in the works and surprise, another conveniently timed mass shooting. The legislation addressing them as PPE has been around for many years. The issue here is getting them removed from the NFA.

[13JFO]

Respectfully, even without a mill or lathe, you can build a better F1 can than a commercial can. Many small shops make everything you require to build a good form 1 suppressor, including jigs for clipping baffles and drilling "storage cups". To answer some of the questions posed:

-- A .45 can could run on a .223, though it won't sound too great.
-- A can bored for a .45 will run well on a 9mm.
-- A can bored for a .243 will run a .223 and .22 just fine, if not overkill for length/baffles/volume.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole i suggest looking at the silencersmithing /f1 suppressor forums for detailed info, but some manufacturers to look up include Maverick Precision, JR machine pro, white trash tactical, diversified machine, and quiet bore. I went down the F1 route because it took 2 weeks for my stamp and ~$400 in parts plus an afternoon with a mini-mill as opposed to 12+ months and ~$1,100+.