That Round Sounded Kinda Funny

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I tried a new load in my fairly new ‘73 Miroku 24” bbl. RCBS 44-200-CM over 15 gr. of slow burning IMR-4227. I was looking for a low velocity load for cowboy action shooting. This load showered my face with unburnt powder granules.

Next I pulled out about 5 Colt’s SAA’s and put them on the bench in front of me. One was a .44-40. I thought I’d try the unsuccessful rifle load in the Colt’s, expecting it to be even more unsatisfactory. When I fired it the report made me question if the boolit even made it out the barrel. I checked the bore and found it clear. I fired the other four (4) rounds out of it anyway. Later I picked up my trusty .45 SAA and started to load it with my favorite load of 454190 over 8.5 gr. of Unique. Huh, a lot of unburnt powder granules in the chambers. How could this be? The unburnt powder granules should be in my .44-40, not my .45. I didn’t. No! I checked the spent .44-40 brass and found the mouths were belled to .45. Yep, I loaded and fired the wrong gun.

How did this happen? First, matching guns in different calibers all laying out on the bench next to each other. Second, over confidence in my 454190 over Unique load, and no confidence in my IMR-4227 load. My attention was focused on handling ammo I didn’t like, but neglected to give attention to which firearm I was picking up.

IMR-4227 would have potential as a .44-40 powder if it were loaded to a higher pressure to achieve a cleaner burn, but I was trying a load for cowboy so the load was light.

The .44-40 brass is Winchester and they all re-sized nicely back to proper spec with lube in RCBS steel dies.

Trail Boss works fine in the 24” .44-40 with 44-200-CM.

I have a lot more time and experience with the .44 Special and .45 Colt than I do with the .44-40. My .44-40 Colt’s is going to be re-calibrated to .45 Colt and would be done by now except Covid has held up delivery of my new Colt .45 barrel which I have ordered. Numrich Arms took my order but held up delivered.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Something similar has happened to many of us at one time or another. It's very loud, and you experience a lot of recoil when you fire a clip full of 7.62mm Nato rounds through an M1 Garand chambered in .30-06. The resulting empties look like .45-70. Accuracy is poor. Shoulder is sore.

[Thumbcocker]

Once had a .41 mag. Case sneak in with the .44's. Loaded it with a medium load and it fired. Sure looked funny afterwards.

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[upnorthwis]

I've shot .30 Herrett in a .30-30. At the third shot I happened to look at the brass. Looked like a .38-55. Well there's the problem.

[osteodoc08]

Once had a .41 mag. Case sneak in with the .44's. Loaded it with a medium load and it fired. Sure looked funny afterwards.

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I’ve done this before as well a few decades ago. Makes for interesting looking brass

[Martin Luber]

A friend got distracted and put a 308 in a smaller caliber rifle, l forgot what, and it exploded, shattering the rifle and causing personal injury...be careful out there.

[osteodoc08]

A friend got distracted and put a 308 in a smaller caliber rifle, l forgot what, and it exploded, shattering the rifle and causing personal injury...be careful out there.

Suprising it chambered, but it definitely would make for a catastrophic event.

[00buck]

I had my Marlin 1895 and my Marlin 39A on the table at the same time .
Luckily I kept my ammo straight.

Just be diligent out there! Be safe

[Drm50]

Had buddy get a 270 in 3006. Rem 742, made hollow bang, split neck across shoulder. Gun jammed with bolt about 1” into recoil stroke, with 270 in bolt.

[Larry Gibson]

How did this happen?

15 gr of 4227 under a 200 gr bullet is how..... much too low bullet mass and much too low of a powder charge for consistent ignition and consistent powder burn. You got gas in the face because, in the rifle, there was not enough psi to obturate the case to seal the chamber.

In a revolver the long cylinder throats [essentially free-bore] can create a very hazardous situation.....the primer alone can force the short, 200 gr bullet into the forcing cone far enough the cylinder turns. A "clink" nothing and you might think a squib or you miss-aligned the empty chamber, then thumb back the hammer and fire again. You then have a bore obstruction and with the second bullet slamming into the first you have a 400 gr stuck bullet. If the powder was smoldering and then ignites......it won't be pretty...…

Be safe, use a correct powder of the correct burn rate for the bullet in use. I been there, done that, hoping to save you from the experience is all.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Larry, I found this load in the current Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and thought I’d try it. I haven’t used IMR-4227 in years. Like I said, I could work up a good load with this boolit powder, but I’d have no use for it so I’ll be sticking with Trail Boss.

I got powder granules, not gas in the face from the 24” bbl. And yes, like you said, the cartridges had soot on them from the failure of the under powdered load to form a gas seal.

[roysha]

Uh, shooting a 22 TCM in the 9mm barrel is definitely not a very good idea because it is REALLY hard on brass!:oops:

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Larry, I didn’t fully grasp your post before I last replied. Good point, the powder granules in my face could have been from the breech due to a lack of a gas seal on the case mouth because of a lack of pressure from too light a charge.

Today I took the same rifle boolit powder to the range. I laid a white 8 1/2” x 11” piece of paper over the breech. After several shots there was no sign of gas or powder granules on the paper.

I put the white piece of paper down on the bench in front of the muzzle and found there was a lot of powder granules on the paper.

The wind was in my face the other day when I felt powder granules in my face.

Today the wind was not in my face and I didn’t feel any powder granules.

I’m still going to abandon this load. If I use IMR-4227 again I’ll increase the load to get a cleaner burn.

[lawdog941]

I've found that 4227 likes to be near the top of loads and a heavy crimp to help with the slow powder to ignite. Trail Boss sounds like a winner for low velocity full case loads.

[johniv]

I’ve done this as well, but the case never got past the sizing die..
I’ve done this before as well a few decades ago. Makes for interesting looking brass

[rintinglen]

A 45 Colt snuck into a bunch of 44 special brass, which was promptly turned into a funky looking 44-40 sort of thing. A friend of mine fired a cylinder full of 44 spl's from his SW 45 colt. I kidded him about fire forming brass for his Asperly Aimless.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I found a brass marked 270 with my .30-06 rounds. I thought ha! The brass manufacturer screwed up and miss marked this one. I’m sure I ran a spent .270 brass through the .30-06 re-sizer.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I didn’t fully grasp your post before I last replied. Good point, the powder granules in my face could have been from the breech due to a lack of a gas seal on the case mouth because of a lack of pressure from too light a charge.

Today I took the same rifle boolit powder to the range. I laid a white 8 1/2” x 11” piece of paper over the breech. After several shots there was no sign of gas or powder granules on the paper.

I put the white piece of paper down on the bench in front of the muzzle and found there was a lot of powder granules on the paper.

The wind was in my face the other day when I felt powder granules in my face.

Today the wind was not in my face and I didn’t feel any powder granules.

I’m still going to abandon this load. If I use IMR-4227 again I’ll increase the load to get a cleaner burn.

Most often we just think we need to approach the "max" listed loads with caution and the low end "start" loads are always good to go. You've just found out it isn't always the case. Also that start load of 4227 has been in Lyman manuals for a long time. Note the very low C.U.P. pressure which was measured in a minimal spec chambered test barrel in a Universal Receiver. Back when tested the technicians probably did not notice any of the attendant problems you have. BTW; the lower pressures of the other 'start" loads are probably ok as those powders are of a different type, ignite more readily and burn more efficiently at low end pressure. That's why I prefer the faster powders in my own 44-40s even though I use that cartridge in very strong actioned (for the cartridge) guns [Ruger OM Vaquero and a M92 carbine). Abandoning that load is an excellent idea.

[Harter66]

I read once of an Editor for a major gun mag going to a manufacturer show and shoot event and complaining to one of his writers of the poor accuracy of this brand new 44 mag and the lame brass that had split nearly every case . ......
Appearently that happens with 41 mag ammo in a 44 mag chamber .

Knock on wood , I've not had that particular experience , outside of a 3" 20 ga in a 2-3/4" chamber once . No harm done . Shortened the case a little . It was only a 3/4 oz game load .

[upnorthwis]

I know a guy that put the wrong powder in a .308 Win. Firing pin went thru his eye and around the back of his head (on the inside). He lived to tell.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Yesterday I finished off the last of those 15 grains of IMR-4227 by loading them in the properly chambered .44-40 Colt’s SAA. They were just OK however I’m done with that load and this Colt’s .44-40 has a new .45 barrel on order and it will be recalibrated ASAP.

I did try 454190 454” over 20 grains of IMR-4227 in 4 3/4” and 7 1/2” Colt’s .45’s and found the load satisfactory at 25 and 50 yards, however I see no reason to switch from my standard .45 load of 8.0 to 8.5 grains of Unique at this time.

[smkummer]

I don’t understand your unburned powder with 8.5 unique and Lyman 454190. I shot 8.6 grains for years with that bullet sized to .454. I upped to 9.3 but will back down to 9.0. It’s my favorite full powder load combination.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

No unburnt Unique, the only unburnt powder was the low end IMR-4227.

[smkummer]

Unique on the upper end works in 44-40 as well. For reduced loads, I find 700X, red dot or bullseye works well to expand the case and get a seal. Oops, yikes, I just read you fired the 44-40 in a 45 colt chamber. I too took a 44 special and a 45 long colt SAA to the range one day together. Then I noticed a particular load sure sounded funny. Yep, I was firing 44 special in a 45long colt. No damage and the 6 cases sized back to re reused. It sure bothered me that I did that.

[Texas by God]

I inherited some .45 LC brass from a late friend/ CAS shooter. I found Several "45-40s" in the tub. I guess it happens more than one would think....
BTW they went right back to .44WCF and I'm still using them.

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[dverna]

Easy to make a mistake. We have either done it or will do it.

Most of the time we don't get hurt and many times the gun survives as well. Glad you "oops" was not serious.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Larry Gibson describes firing with a boolit in the bore. I did that over 40 years ago. The report was just a primer pop, never did I believe a primer would drive a 240 gr. J-word into the bore of my SBH. The next round was 2x 240 gr. being driven by 22 gr. of 2400. That Ruger held together. I mic’d the outside of the barrel and slugged the bore. There wasn’t even a bulge.

[Drm50]

When I was in high school I traded up a k32 S&W and got holster and 4 boxes of ammo. This was in 60s and ammo was pre WW2. I took gun with me to buddies that evening. After milking we were shooting at frozen cow pies in loafing lot under flood lights. I shot a couple and they sounded normal. Then one made a hollow bang, I said that was a weak one and buddy said check barrel he didn’t see bullet strike. Sure enough, bullet was 3” up a 6” barrel. It drove out fairly easy with a wooden dowel rod. I was only around 14-15 at the time but was a good lesson that paid off. I’ve had squib but never shot on top one.