Is shooting Tracer bullets damaging to bore?

[corbinace]

I have a bunch of 147 gr tracer pulls in 30 caliber that I would like to load up and shoot in the winter time.

Will doing so cause any damage to the bore?

[Larry Gibson]

No, it's the same as shooting any other jacketed bullet. The "trace" element does not burn enough to leave any deposit/residue in the bore until some distance from the muzzle. While the "igniter element" is ignited by the cartridge's burning powder the gas from such blows any residue out of the barrel in front of the escaping "muzzle blast". You will notice that when firing them the "trace is not immediately visible at the muzzle.

[Drm50]

I disagree, the tracer doesnt start burn till it hits air but particles are left behind when cartridge is fired. When bullet clears barrel they burn. It’s not like they have the heat of the tracer but firing a bunch of them is chain reaction of residue burning shot after shot. I would not fire even one tracer out of one of my rifles. If you have a beater milsurp use it. Also be careful tracers can easily set things on fire. 1-2 punch was a AP to fuel tank followed by tracer. They will start wooden structures on fire too.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I doubt most of us will see any damage in our shooting , I am with the no issue on this as the force of the burning powder should keep any residue of tracing compound pushed out .

On my rounds I have fired through a AR I have not noticed any damage or extra residue after firing tracers , I agree with the due care of when and where to shoot them , but same goes for bi- metallic rounds and shooting copper jacketed against steel or rock/concrete .

I have bought the 30 caliber from CDVS and it was cheap with the sealed base . No issues through the 300 blackouts either .

[Winger Ed.]

The ones I've seen in USGI .30 and .50 cal have a red plastic disc crimped inside their base.

With that, and not seeing them light off for several yards downrange- I don't think they could damage a barrel.
At least they don't seem to have hurt any of mine.
I've only known a couple of machine gunners that had combat tours, and they never mentioned anything bad
happening to the gun, or any concerns about limited use of tracers.

However;
They can start a nice grass fire if you're not careful.

[tomme boy]

Also be careful tracers can easily set things on fire. 1-2 punch was a AP to fuel tank followed by tracer. They will start wooden structures on fire too.
Good luck with that. I have shot a bunch of propane tanks and none have ever went off with a 50 cal tracer. We had to use a road flare behind the tanks to get them to go off. Or use a Spotting round or incendiary round. Others I know have seen the same thing.

[Winger Ed.]

I have shot a bunch of propane tanks and none have ever went off with a 50 cal tracer..

Just like a engine won't fire off if the fuel mixture is too rich, or too lean-
propane is the same way, and in a even narrower window to light up.

I think a tracer would go in & through a tank so fast propane couldn't vaporize or mix with enough air to light.
The propane liquid and/or gas in the tank would be too 'rich' to burn.
With the flare burning, and a fresh bullet hole, then the gas could escape and seek its own level of concentration, then light up.

You'd probably see the same effect by shooting a container of liquid gasoline too.

[Drm50]

I have considerable experience on 50 and 30 cal. Fuel tanks have to be punched and leak/ aired before tracer will ignite. Tracers weren’t capped with anything in 7.62 or 50. On training ranges they towed in junk cars. Some with all windows they would dump a 1/2 gal of gas. Ones with gas blew fairly good for only 1/2 gal of gas. The ones with no gas would have upholstery smoldering and on fire. Tracers were 1x10. Instructors told us tracers were hard on barrels because of burning residue being ground by following slugs. The next time you shoot a propane tank hit it with AP or Ball, then tracer. It will even work with 223. I saw many burnt out hulks from fuel trucks. Dinks shot them up when they were on return trip empty and full of fumes. None of us ever complained about barrels, they gave us all the new ones we wanted. I’m going to have to pull a new issue tracer and check out the plastic plug. It must protect a little timer that sets off tracer a couple hundred yards down range. 262465

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=Drm50;4907203] I’m going to have to pull a new issue tracer and check out the plastic plug. It must protect a little timer that sets off tracer a couple hundred yards down range.QUOTE]

Don't make extra work for yourself.
Plenty of other people are more than glad to do that for ya.

Here's some .50 tracers left over from my .50BMG days.
They are USGI pulls I got at a gun show, at least 15 years ago, but I have no idea how old they are.

These are brown tip M-17 tracers. Not sure the difference between them and the M-10 orange tip.

I've got some 7.62s loaded, so I can't show one, (Edit) but they have a brass cup.

[Larry Gibson]

From TM9-1305-200/Small Arms Ammunition;

"Tracers. These bullets contain a lead-antimony slug in the forward position and a tracer composition in the rear. They have either square or boat-tailed bases. The bullet jackets are made of gilding metal or gilding metal clad steel. An igniter composition is also present, which is ignited by the burning propellent gases which, in turn, ignites the tracer composition...…."

As noted by others there is usually a plastic plug though for many years M62 Tracer (as used in 7.62 NATO) has a small inverted gilding metal cup. The photo is of LC-75 M62 of which I just pulled the bullets for the photo. The trace element is not ignited until the igniter composition ignites it which occurs after the bullet has left the muzzle. The little cup and any residue from the igniter composition are blown out of the barrel by the expanding gases of the burning propellent.

Apparently no one has noticed the M60 I am holding in my avatar(?). During many, many years in the Army in infantry (Airborne), Special Forces (Weapons NCO) and Armored cavalry (Scout) I also have much experience with and shooting different kinds/calibers of machine guns. It was karma as my initials are "LMG"..... Also in Special Forces I attended numerous technical weapons training in ordnance, especially in the clandestine use of.

Again; the firing of 145 - 147 gr M62 tracers (30 caliber as the OP refers to them) will not damage or hurt the barrel. The OP mentions their use in "winter time" so I suspect he is aware of the fire potential and will practice due diligence.

262476

[M-Tecs]

Propane is not flammable ---Propane and oxygen mixed is highly flammable. In the mid 70's I was tasked with disposing of couple of dozen highly rusted 1 pound propane cylinders. Shot with a single tracer the gas just vented out. A second tracers would give you a nice fire jet but nothing resembling the Hollywood type type explosions. To get that we would fill balloons with Oxygen and Acetylene. Hit with a tracer they popped pretty well.

I had been given about 1,100 rounds of 30/06 tracers. Shot them all and I didn't see and noticeable damage from the tracers. I did pit the bore from not being aware that corrosive primers required different bore cleaning techniques. Those tracers killed a couple of dozen propane tanks, a bunch of Oxy/Acetylene balloons and maybe 700 or 800 carp. Yes not legal but this was in the middle of nowhere in the 70's. It's amazing how much water deflects bullets.

[ulav8r]

My only experience with tracers were 38 Specials fired in a Blackhawk. The owner brought it in saying "These tracers welded the barrel shut". There were six bullets stuck in the bore. I removed them without damaging the barrel.

[elmacgyver0]

All bullets will eventually damage your bore.
Tracers may erode a bore marginally sooner than FMJ bullets and FMJ bullets will definitely wear a bore sooner than cast.
The best way to protect your barrel is never to shoot it.
Unless you have a fancy target gun I would not worry about it.

[Dieselhorses]

Just like a engine won't fire off if the fuel mixture is too rich, or too lean-
propane is the same way, and in a even narrower window to light up.

I think a tracer would go in & through a tank so fast propane couldn't vaporize or mix with enough air to light.
The propane liquid and/or gas in the tank would be too 'rich' to burn.
With the flare burning, and a fresh bullet hole, then the gas could escape and seek its own level of concentration, then light up.

You'd probably see the same effect by shooting a container of liquid gasoline too.

Never had a problem igniting ANY size propane tank with my 30-06 or .303. Just have to leave the tank on the fire long enough. :)

[biffj]

Tracers do light in the bore. If they didn't they'd never light. Its the hot powder gas that ignites them and as noted above they have a small portion of the mixture that has more oxydizer and finer magnesium so that it will be easier to light. This portion does not have the brighteners that make the flame easier to see so you don't notice it burning. People think because they don't see the bright flame its not burning but either its burning or it won't ever. Once the igniter portion burns through it will light up the bright trace which normally uses a different oxydizer and magnesium mix along with brighteners. This part will throw a flame 3 inches or more from a 30 cal bullet if you light it up out of the barrel. Some tracers like our US M20APIT 50 cal use an oxydizer in the igniter that burns with a green tint so when you watch these you see a green trace that turns red about 100yds out or so. For the 223 and 30 cal tracers you don't really see it because the surface area is so small and the brightness much less than the main trace. If you video the tracers firing you'll see in the video that there is a streak from the muzzle out and that it gets brighter somewhere downrange where the main trace ignites. Your eye doesn't always see it because it happens so fast but you will sometimes see them light up from the muzzle.

As for wear or erosion the tracers do not cause any more than normal ammo. The part that is burning doesn't leave much heat behind because its gone so fast. The powder gas contributes a bit to the barrel heating but a lot of the heat is due to friction of the bullet in the bore. The residue from the tracers is magnesium oxide which is a great anti-acid so no corrosion to worry about either. The only reason you'd get any more wear out of tracers is that they usually have a longer contact area because the bullet weight needs to be close to whatever you're normally firing but with a magnesium powder compressed core the density is so much less that your overall length is far greater. More contact area can mean more friction and therefore more heat. I don't see it being enough to make a difference in real life though.

Frank

[Winger Ed.]

Just have to leave the tank on the fire long enough. :)

I had a buddy like that. Among the more crazy people I've ever met.
If we went to the poison ivy farm and tick ranch for the weekend,,,,,,,,,
the more and more he drank, the larger and larger caliber of ammunition he'd throw in the fire.

[Hickory]

Tracers do light in the bore. If they didn't they'd never light. Its the hot powder gas that ignites them and as noted above they have a small portion of the mixture that has more oxydizer and finer magnesium so that it will be easier to light. This portion does not have the brighteners that make the flame easier to see so you don't notice it burning. People think because they don't see the bright flame its not burning but either its burning or it won't ever. Once the igniter portion burns through it will light up the bright trace which normally uses a different oxydizer and magnesium mix along with brighteners. This part will throw a flame 3 inches or more from a 30 cal bullet if you light it up out of the barrel. Some tracers like our US M20APIT 50 cal use an oxydizer in the igniter that burns with a green tint so when you watch these you see a green trace that turns red about 100yds out or so. For the 223 and 30 cal tracers you don't really see it because the surface area is so small and the brightness much less than the main trace. If you video the tracers firing you'll see in the video that there is a streak from the muzzle out and that it gets brighter somewhere downrange where the main trace ignites. Your eye doesn't always see it because it happens so fast but you will sometimes see them light up from the muzzle.

As for wear or erosion the tracers do not cause any more than normal ammo. The part that is burning doesn't leave much heat behind because its gone so fast. The powder gas contributes a bit to the barrel heating but a lot of the heat is due to friction of the bullet in the bore. The residue from the tracers is magnesium oxide which is a great anti-acid so no corrosion to worry about either. The only reason you'd get any more wear out of tracers is that they usually have a longer contact area because the bullet weight needs to be close to whatever you're normally firing but with a magnesium powder compressed core the density is so much less that your overall length is far greater. More contact area can mean more friction and therefore more heat. I don't see it being enough to make a difference in real life though.

Frank

This is a good explanation of the goings on of a tracer and the actions that take place in and out of the barrel.
To my thinking, and my knowledge of pyrotechnics the magnesium doesn't light until sometime in the last 1/3 of the barrel. Time in the barrel can be anywhere from one and a half milliseconds to two milliseconds on average.

As far as leaving residue behind in the barrel, about the only way much or any way this could happen would be if the lit tracer was pulled through the barrel and not pushed out the barrel with the expanding gasses from the gunpowder.

To my thinking, tracers and any excess wear on the barrel is a non-issue.

[GregLaROCHE]

Are there any close up slow motion videos of tracers on YouTube ?

[tomme boy]

[QUOTE=Drm50;4907203] I’m going to have to pull a new issue tracer and check out the plastic plug. It must protect a little timer that sets off tracer a couple hundred yards down range.QUOTE]

Don't make extra work for yourself.
Plenty of other people are more than glad to do that for ya.

Here's some .50 tracers left over from my .50BMG days.
They are USGI pulls I got at a gun show, at least 15 years ago, but I have no idea how old they are.

These are brown tip M-17 tracers. Not sure the difference between them and the M-10 orange tip.

I've got some 7.62s loaded, so I can't show one, (Edit) but they have a brass cup.
Brown tips are M62 Green Trace SOCOM, Desert Storm round.

[Lloyd Smale]

If its a bolt gun your not going to shoot 500 in a day without cleaning and if its an ar or ak even if it did hurt the barrel which I really doubt replacements are cheap and im sure youll have many more grey hair before you shoot enough of them to wear out the original. Heck you wear out your barrel EVERY time you shoot. I shoot for fun. Im not going to worry about some minor wear and tear. If its fun do it. If the gun is collectable put it back in the safe and take something else out and shoot the snot out of it. to me its about like buying a new corvette and worrying about wearing out you tires driving it hard. Why buy it in the first place.

[Drm50]

Well you guys have the misfortune of running into the only Vietnam Vet that wasn’t a Special Ops, Seal, CIA, Green Berete, etc. I only told you what the instructors at USSADS told those of us that were being trained in automatic weapons. That was their line at the time and it made sense to me.
I think I was in the last class of conventional ADA, from 5.56 to 40mm Bofors. If you want to shoot tracers in your gun it’s your business.

[Larry Gibson]

The OP's question was one of "damage". ["Will doing so cause any damage to the bore?"]

A bullet that will "damage" to the bore is different than normal wear that a bullet causes, at least to me anyway.

BTW; the friction from the bullet causes little wear in a barrel. It is heat and erosion that wears out [shoots out] barrels. Were it friction the barrel would get the hottest to the touch toward the muzzle end where the barrel is thinnest and the bullet is moving the fastest. What causes "damage" a barrels bore, other than normal wear from heat and erosion, are firing undersized bullets that do not obturate which causes severe gas cutting, corrosion from some priming compounds and conditions if not properly cleaned and poor cleaning technique. Of course barrels can be severely damaged by firing excessive pressure loads [the firearm may also be damaged] and a round with a bore obstruction.

As mentioned previously, in firing 30 caliber traces the ignition element is ignited by the hot powder burning in the bore but any residue from that is expelled out the muzzle by the volume of expanding powder burning gas pushing any residue and the bullet down the bore. I does indeed happen very quickly [micro-seconds] and the trace element is ignited after the bullet leaves the bore.

Bottom line is I believe Drm50 is correct...…."If you want to shoot tracers in your gun it’s your business" because I've shot a lot of them in my own rifles and haven't damaged anything yet...….except the target......

[Shiloh]

Play it safe.
Treat like corrosive ammo. Most trace compounds or initiators contain chlorates.

Shiloh

[Mk42gunner]

I don't believe tracers will damage or cause any more wear to a barrel than normal jacketed rounds, as long as you clean your rifle shortly after firing.

As to tracers (not APIT) causing fires, it is definitely possible. I set the machine gun range at Fort Hunter-Ligget while conducting a crew served weapons shoot with NMCB-5. IIRC that was done with .50's and M-60's, seems like we didn't get to the MK-19's until the second day.

We used to conduct famfires off the fantail of every ship I was on, except for the junk boat, after ensuring a safe distance from anything else on the water. Occasionally you could hear a ricochet, but I had no idea just how badly water deflected small arms rounds until one night on my last ship the MEUSOC battalion on board did a shoot with 5.56 tracers pulled from SAW belts.

Wearing NVG's it was very clear that once a round hit the water it could go just about any direction, The tracers showed up a purple streaks, it was like a quarter of a sphere with no safe zone.

Robert

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've not been concerned about rifle/pistol barrels but had a friend wanting to shoot a 12 Ga flare in his dad's O/U super pricey trap gun, I suggested he not do that (heavy chokes in both barrels I think.) That could end badly, if the tracer was stopped by the chokes. (I haven't taken a 12 Ga tracer apart, interesting to think of tho)

[StratsMan]

Since the OP is handloading loose tracer bullets, I will also caution him to check the base of the bullets being loaded. Every loose 30cal tracer bullet I've seen had the copper cup in the bottom, as shown in Larry Gibson's previous photo. I have also seen missing cups on the tails of tracer bullets, with the igniter compound exposed. I would NOT load those bullets, as you may ignite the tracing compound inside the barrel (can't imagine you wouldn't). I don't know about corrosion, but that's gotta add to the pressure in the barrel, possibly to dangerous levels.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Most of the tracer without the disc or copper cup is sold as not likely to trace , I have used some of them for cheap blasting ammo , my experience with it was same as the place that sold it , maybe 1 in every 5 or more would trace .

I also found no extra trash or difference in cleaning barrel , no noticeable change in recoil or velocity , I do not have pressure testing equipment .

I am not loading it for highest velocity or for match ammo , but see no reason to waste better ammo on casual shooting , save the good stuff for where it matters , YMMV and it is a personal choice to use it or not .

Along with the cautions advised in above posts , please use care and caution as in all reloading and shooting .

[roysha]

Propane is not flammable ---Propane and oxygen mixed is highly flammable. In the mid 70's I was tasked with disposing of couple of dozen highly rusted 1 pound propane cylinders. Shot with a single tracer the gas just vented out. A second tracers would give you a nice fire jet but nothing resembling the Hollywood type type explosions. To get that we would fill balloons with Oxygen and Acetylene. Hit with a tracer they popped pretty well.

I had been given about 1,100 rounds of 30/06 tracers. Shot them all and I didn't see and noticeable damage from the tracers. I did pit the bore from not being aware that corrosive primers required different bore cleaning techniques. Those tracers killed a couple of dozen propane tanks, a bunch of Oxy/Acetylene balloons and maybe 700 or 800 carp. Yes not legal but this was in the middle of nowhere in the 70's. It's amazing how much water deflects bullets.

I LOVE shooting carp, especially with my 44 MAG. Can't do it anymore around here with all the development.

[kawasakifreak77]

I've shot a lot of tracers over the years.

If one could afford to fire enough tracers (& also not burn the county down at some point) to notice any measurable wear, you could also afford to buy several replacement barrels.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I noticed the .30 cal. tracer bullets I used to shoot were longer and had traces of tar like sealant on them. A military guy told me they leave more copper fouling in a bore. I was shooting them in a chrome lined FAL and never noticed any problems. Shot them in the. Winter mostly so I wouldn't start a forest fire.

[Wisest.fool]

In afghanistan we linked up 200round belt of 556 tracers only and shot them through a m249. It DEFINITELY heated the barrel quicker. I think if you are not shooting 200 in under a minute it shouldn't be a problem though. That was kind of a unique case. We used all tracers in a " hot" mag to direct fires sometimes and burning through one of those mags didn't seem to be damaging to our m4s.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez olde WW II era tracers truly "lit in the bore".
Typical igniter mix was Barium Peroxide (BaO2) and Magnesium (Mg).

Typical white (green?) tracer mix was Barium Nitrate [Ba(NO3)2] and Mg or Al powder/flakes.
Typical red / orange tracer mix had Strontium Nitrate [Sr(NO3)2] in the mix.

One of the solid combustion products was ABRASIVE Barium Carbonate BaCO3.
Olde WW II arsenal fella told me if you shot 100 in a row, bore groove diameter lapped up 0.003 inch.
If you cleaned the bore after every shot, no bore erosion since there was no abrasive powder coating
available to serve as "bore lapping compound" for next bullet traveling down the bore.

After WW II delayed tracer igniters were developed.
(Have no idea about the PLASTIC BASE closure types.)
Behind the brass closure disk is a "gasless delay mix".

Heat from the burning propellant is conducted thru the thin brass metal.
Gasless delay mix lits up / burns REALLY HOT but BUT DOESN'T MAKE MUCH GAS.
Hot slag ignites usual igniter mix maybe 100 yards out - doesn't screw up bore.
Alll this goes on IN the bullet - nothing gets out into the bore.

One can only guess at all the aroundgefooln' needed to commercialize "delayed tracers"!