Lee custom 6.5mm short Loverin bullet.

[Buckshot]

...........Checks recieved to date:

A1E2Y9 - 1

04736 - 1

06512 - 1

10009 - 1

12401 - 1

13642 - 1

15701 - 1

22192 - 1

22193 - 1

28311 - 1

28376 - 1

37179 - 1

42701 - 1

47401 - 1

53037 - 1

59701 - 1

62801 - 1

64503 - 1

74429 - 1

78412 - 1

83706 - 2

84601 - 1

85308 - 1

89706 - 1

89815 - 1

92374 - 2

93502 - 1

99114 - 1

99737 - 1

I count 31 to date. Got Trooper Bret's in. Order will go in to Lee this week. I waited for another couple checks to materialize, but that didn't happen. I will bank the checks Monday and send Lee the spec sheet info.

............Buckshot

[Buckshot]

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=514616

The design is at the above address.

............Buckshot

[Oldfeller]

Buckshot, when you send the order check it may be a good idea to write all over the check and whatever paperwork you send in real big letters.

"HORNADAY GAS CHECKS MUST BE A SNAP FIT (FIRMLY RETAINED) BY THE GAS CHECK SHANK WHEN BULLETS ARE CAST FROM WHEEL WEIGHT METAL. DO ALL SIZE AND DROP TESTING WITH WHEEL WEIGHT METAL."

If you do this, then just maybe LEE will pay attention. If you give them a few days, they will likely forget. Plus, if it isn't real LARGE AND OBVIOUS on the paperwork they will have enough walking time between the office and the shop to forget all over again. (actually, the office who does remember hands the paperwork off to the shop who hasn't got a clue about what you said to the office folks apart from what they take the time to read on the paperwork itself)

This LARGE AND OBVIOUS marking on the print and on the check also makes your requirements very clear in case they mess up again (eases sending them all back for repairs).

I hope this isn't the case this time. At least they can't blame us any if they do screw up.

Oldfeller

[Buckshot]

.............Oldfeller, great minds and all that! As I sat here at work this evening copying addresses and endorsing checks I thought about that. After what poor Lar45 had to go through with the 'Fat 30" I was gonna take a marker and add, " GC shanks to be snap fit, at minimum", in big letters across the bottom of the drawing.

................Buckshot

[Buckshot]

............Just an FYI, the order went out in todays mail. I asked them to e-mail me as to about when they felt they might be running them. When I hear, I'll let'cha all know.

..................Buckshot

[Mel-4857]

Just saw your group buy a couple of days ago when I found your great site. I suppose it's late to get in on the order. Your mould looks like a great one. I've aquired a mould for a least most of my rifles but not a 6.5mm. Have 2 Swedes and a couple of Carcanos. If its not too late I can express mail a money order to you. Mel, Nova Scotia , Canada

[Buckshot]

Just saw your group buy a couple of days ago when I found your great site. I suppose it's late to get in on the order. Your mould looks like a great one. I've aquired a mould for a least most of my rifles but not a 6.5mm. Have 2 Swedes and a couple of Carcanos. If its not too late I can express mail a money order to you. Mel, Nova Scotia , Canada

...........I guess you can. I could call Lee and have them add one to the count.

.................Buckshot

[Mel-4857]

Thanks for putting me on the list for the 6.5mm mould. Just tell me where to send the money. You've made my day. Mel

[Buckshot]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...........Checks recieved to date:

A1E2Y9 - 1

B0P1W0 - 1 (Mel, if that's NOT Bee Oh Pee, lemme know)

04736 - 1

06512 - 1

10009 - 1

12401 - 1

13642 - 1

15701 - 1

22192 - 1

22193 - 1

28311 - 1

28376 - 1

37179 - 1

42701 - 1

47401 - 1

53037 - 1

59701 - 1

62801 - 1

64503 - 1

74429 - 1

78412 - 1

83706 - 2

84601 - 1

85308 - 1

89706 - 1

89815 - 1

92374 - 2

93502 - 1

99114 - 1

99737 - 1

[Mel-4857]

You're Right about the postal code . Got a Husky and 1896( 1900 Obendorf ) I'm dying .to try the Bullet in. Got the 96 a couple of weeks ago and the possibilty of picking up a 96 Carl Gustaf dated 1907 if all goes well. Thanks again for adding me to the list. Mel

[Buckshot]

............Mel, ya oughta post over on Military rifles and let us know what you've done with'em so far, and what with, etc. Just lay out the whole trail of tears [smilie=b:

.................Buckshot

[Buckshot]

..........I called Lee at 1600 their time to ask about the order. They said the mould dept had gone home at 1430. The lady found the order and said she'd check with them tomorrow and them call me with the expected production or ship date. I'll get that info posted as soon as I get it.

.............Buckshot

[Buckshot]

..........Got a call from the lady at Lee about the 6.5mm mould. She said, "They're really busy in the mould department right now, and I was told it would be about 3 weeks before your's were produced".

Guess that means about early-mid June, as she DID say it was an estimate. So you still have time to get some cases all prepped and set aside.

.............Buckshot

[BD]

Buckshot, I missed the beginning of this, but I'd try it. How much and where to? This will be another mold I find one day when I'm retired and say, SH*T, about time to try this out! BD

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, I missed the beginning of this, but I'd try it. How much and where to? This will be another mold I find one day when I'm retired and say, SH*T, about time to try this out! BD

...........BD, I'm sorry to say that the entire run is spoken for. I did order a few extra initially but those late through the gate ate them up a few weeks ago. I wanted to order 10 extra as a hedge. I've seen this too many times with custom orders where even 10 might not have been enough.

I'm sorry that I just couldn't see my way clear financially, to have done that. The (then) upcoming Winnemucca deal, wife's car needing tires shortly and the daughter's wedding in June almost has me picking up aluminum cans for re-cycling money! If something should happen to breack one free I'll send you a PM.

................Buckshot

PS: Speaking of moulds, you know I have your's but haven't gotten a chance to cast (anything AAMOF) since I got it.

[StarMetal]

Buckshot

In that case I'll be borrowing your mould when you get it to cast up a bunch to see if my 260 likes them.

Joe

[Ed Barrett]

..........Got a call from the lady at Lee about the 6.5mm mould. She said, "They're really busy in the mould department right now, and I was told it would be about 3 weeks before your's were produced".

Guess that means about early-mid June, as she DID say it was an estimate. So you still have time to get some cases all prepped and set aside.

.............Buckshot

I've had my cases ready for months, guess I'll have to break down and buy some more "clad" bullets.

[bascom32423]

Hi Buckshot,

If a mould becomes available, I would like one.

Thanks,
Henry


http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=514616

The design is at the above address.

............Buckshot

[Buckshot]

...............Lee just charged my CC with the cost of the moulds. That was 5-20. I'm hoping that means they're in production, which would be 3 weeks early, or they're going into production which may mean 2 weeks earlier then previously supposed.

..............Buckshot

[Buckshot]

..............Talked to Monica at Lee. The 6.5mm moulds will ship NLT the end of next week. If that is so, and since I work weekends, it will be the week following before I get them addressed, taped and shipped out. It's getting close!

.............Buckshot

[Ed Barrett]

I'm set to cast as soon as it comes in!!

[Buckshot]

...............Hopefully our moulds will show up next week. Promised ship date as in the post above. I have to work Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun next week. If they arrive I can at least take them to work with me and get them inspected, sealed up and address labels made for Monday mailing.

Buckshot

[Buckshot]

...........No, they're NOT here yet. I gotta call from Doug at Lee. The 6.5 moulds will be run tomorrow. The delay was that they just got done installing and testing a new CNC lathe to replace the old one. He said he had to fabricate up a new chuck and then run tests on the new setup. He said the 6.5's will be the first job on the new machine. He said thay shoud be super duper.

I don't know if he was pulling my chain or not :D. I've always figured it like new car models. Don't be the first, and if you do like'em, don't be the last. I figure 5 days from tomorrow should see them here. I hope!

..............Buckshot

[Oldfeller]

Folks, you gotta admit the 6.5 is a challenge for Doug to get to cut consistently in a six hole mold. The diameter is small, the boring bar is TINY SKINNY LONG and the hole he is cutting is deeeeep for the diameter.

Plus we ask him to hold some pretty tight tolerances. He breaks or dulls up a boring bar about every 50 or so holes and he has to start over on the fine tuning thing.

6 holes times 45 molds -- simplify the math and just say he is going to have him a boring bar failure about 3-4 times during this run.

Fact is, being human he avoids the job as long as he can because he knows he is going to take a punishment on it from one side or another ..... often times from both sides (us and LEE).

Be nice to poor old Doug, he is a good'un and has been our friend for years chasing after all these crazy molds.

Buckshot, did you remind him about the gas check shanks? Doug forgets over all them months of waiting and he cuts them LEE-style if you don't remind him that we want the gas checks to be a snap fit and we want THE METAL TO BE WHEEL WEIGHT METAL when he goes to fine tuning the various sizes.

Oldfeller

PS notice I how stay out of all them heated discussions anymore? Life is soooooo much nicer this way ...... <g>

[Buckshot]

...............Called Lee today. The moulds have shipped! The nice phone lady was surprised I was calling as today should have been landing day. Prolly tomorrow.

.............Buckshot

[Leftoverdj]

Buckshot, how do you get an nice phone lady? I have started out with one a couple of times, but I always wind up with a dragon?

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, how do you get an nice phone lady? I have started out with one a couple of times, but I always wind up with a dragon?

"The nice phone lady", sarcasm. Only sarcasm. I've talked to the same one a few times (Monica?) and it's like she wakes up in a different tree everyday.

..............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Buckshot

That's because you are too "tactful" har har har

[Buckshot]

.............Moulds arrived today in 2 big boxes. I pulled one and opened it. Looks good. A few loose aluminum chips in a couple cavities, but normal pre-use mould prep will have them long gone.

Scenario:

I will make up all the mailing labels and delivery confirmation paperwork this weekend while I'm at work, and ship 18 of'em Monday. Tuesday I'll ship the final 15. This is so I don't clog up the counter at the PO so long and have postal patrons, er, going postal on me.

I am NOT going to open each set of blocks to check them out, or clean them up. I'll open the box to confirm that one is in there :D, but that's it. Those going to our pals in the great frozen north (Canukistan) will go Tuesday as I can ask the postal beings of the best way to ship them (Global Priority?).

I any event, the vast majority should see your moulds by the end of next week, just in time for a weekend casting/loading session.

My pot is currently loaded with pure lead, or I'd have cast up some and posted a photo of'em.

................Buckshot

[grumble]

Buckshot, I guess you know you can make prepaid shipping labels on the USPS web site? Upside is that you can make the labels right at home and pay via credit card. Downside is that you have to use your own printer, paper, and tape.

[Scrounger]

Buckshot, I guess you know you can make prepaid shipping labels on the USPS web site? Upside is that you can make the labels right at home and pay via credit card. Downside is that you have to use your own printer, paper, and tape.

Not so. Buckshot works for a rich capitalist trucking company. And he is the only one there from midnight to 6AM... Wouldn't you? I would.

[Ed Barrett]

I'll be checking the mail for the mold. It looks like my medical problems are over for a while at least.
Can't wait to try it down the Swede barrel.

[fiberoptik]

.............Moulds arrived today in 2 big boxes. I pulled one and opened it. Looks good. A few loose aluminum chips in a couple cavities, but normal pre-use mould prep will have them long gone.
................Buckshot
[smilie=b: If I'd Only found out sooner!..........Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[Buckshot]

..........FYI , I would suggest something to all custom mould authors who might live on the perimeter of the United States. Shipping from the extremities, and shipping to your zone 6 through 9 will exceed the built in customary $6 shipping fee. That is if you should get delivery confirmation and $50 insurance on each mould, via USPS.

Moulds shipped today. Zip and delivery conf number.

93502..............0305-0830-0000-7045-7648
84601.....................................7045-7631
53037.....................................7045-7624
42701.....................................7045-7679
37179.....................................7045-7662
12401.....................................7045-7655
22193.....................................7045-7594
59701.....................................7045-7617
85308.....................................7045-7600
78412.....................................7045-7587
89706.....................................7045-7563
28376.....................................7045-7570
83706.....................................7054-7556
04736.....................................7045-7532
13642.....................................7045-7549
99737.....................................7045-7525
89815.....................................7045-7501

To check the delivery confirmation (it's NOT a tracking number) you can dial 800-222-1811, or go online at www.usps.com

.............Buckshot

[Oldfeller]

How bad did you get thumped by the incremental postage increase? I will send some extra to help take up some slack.

Kelly

[Maineboy]

I believe I'm the farthest from you. I'll help make up the difference as well.

[Buckshot]

.............but thanks guys. If I sponser another I'll just know better next time.

Shipped today:

99114.......................0305-0830-0000-7045-7730
47401............................................. .7045-7686
15701............................................. .7045-7709
06512............................................. .7045-7754
64503............................................. .7045-7693
11429............................................. .7045-7747
74429............................................. .7045-7716
62801............................................. .7045-7761

The 2 going to Canada will go out tomorrow.

................Buckshot

[Maineboy]

The USPS shipped it all the way from Redlands CA to Caribou, ME in 2 days. UPS would have taken a week. I just may try it out tonight.

Thanks Buckshot!

[C1PNR]

Stopped by this morning! All arrived safe and sound! Thanks again Buckshot!:grin:

[Urny]

It's here and looks good. May get to use it in a few weeks. Thanks, Rick.

[brimic]

Got mine today, thanks Buckshot :-)

[Buckshot]

...........It's done, they're all gone.

BOP1WO
A1E2Y9
22192

.............Buckshot

[Ed Barrett]

Mine came today.
64503

[KYCaster]

Got mine yesterday. Thanks Buckshot.

Jerry

[Maineboy]

I cast up about 100 boolits, the mould worked pretty good after filling it 3-4 times. The #2 hole won't fill out in the base area, I probably didn't clean it well enough. All the other cavities work fine. I sprayed the cavities and bottom of the sprue plate with dry graphite after cleaning the blocks and ran the wheel weight alloy pretty hot. I sampled 10 of the boolits, all measured .269 on the driving bands, the noses measured .266, they weighed between 132.9 and 133.4 grains. Tonight I'll size, check and lube them. I don't know when I'll get to load them though. Anyone have any loading data to suggest?

This is the first time in over 3 months I've been able to do any casting. I missed it!

Additional info: The The Hornady gas checks I have are a loose fit. Hopefully it's only that this lot that is too big and not that the boolit shanks are undersized.

[TCLouis]

I gotta get to some casting for fall!

[rikkit]

Got mine yesterday gonna set the alarm clock for 0-dark-thirty and try to get some cast up before this Sonoran Sun kicks my butt. Thanks for everything Buchshot! 85308

[sundog]

Bucky, thank you, sir! sundog

[StarMetal]

Okay got the mould today so cast about about 20 pounds worth. First the mould worked flawlessly. All the bullet cavities filled out and all dropped free from the mould easily. My bullets weigh 135 grs and the alloy is one of 45 2.1's specials.
They dropped from the mould at .2685 to .269.

Joe

[Buckshot]

.............Well the only disappointing thing so far is that they seem to be about 10grs too heavy. Oh well. Target weight was hopefully about 125-128grs, but missing by 6-7 isn't too bad I guess. May have to rig up a hollowpointing deal in the future.

...............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Well so far bad news, especially after how well the mould cast and the bullets looked great. I went out shooting today, so Saturday At The Hillbilly range. First load I tried was the one that so great with the bullets 45 2.1 sent me and that was 29 grs of 4895 with Dacron wad. Remember that bullet shot little under an inch at 100 meters at about 2200 fps. No good with this new bullet. Groups were about 6 inches. So being the bullet weighs more then the ones 45 2.1 sent I knocked the load back to 27 grs. Got about two inch groups, scattered group. Not that great. So went up and down from there to no avail. Just going 1/2 gr up from 27 grs started opening them up again. Here's even more heart breaking news, the 27 gr load clocked over the chrono at 2071 fps. Don't forget my 260 Remington Jap has a 1 in 9 twist, not nearly as fast as the Swede. So we're back to that like around 1900 fps threshold again...at least I am. The bullet also shot alot lower then 45 2.1's bullet too, like over six inches.

Joe

[carpetman]

Starmetal---A two inch group???????That should be an easy fix--I think on your keyboard F-1 is"one hole group".

[45 2.1]

One day on cure time even for quenched bullets isn't enough. I never get good results with quenched in under three days or a week with air cooled. Two weeks gives better results yet.

[Oldfeller]

Joe, how big is your throat and how big did you size the bullet? In short, did you get any controlling throat engagement when you closed the bolt down on her?

45 2.1, you got Buckshot's fabled HP mold on hand and I daresay those were the short slugs you exported to Joe that he's been shooting lately. What can you see as far a cause for these new LEE six banger slugs not working well?

I'm curious, mainly because I had high hopes for this particular little sluglette being a decent moderate speed plinker round.

Oldfeller

[45 2.1]

He only had a days cure on the water drop. I've never had consistent results in under three days, tested with hardness tester over two weeks. No joy if under three days for consistancy or accuracy. They need to set awhile in my opinion.

[StarMetal]

I shot 45 2.1's bullets right after I heat treated them in my oven. I'm not totally sold on having to cure for two weeks. I've shot alot of better groups with other calibers and rifles with bullets right out of the water bucket.

Kelly

They snug up nice in my rifle, but don't forget my rifle isn't a Swede. Mine has a 260 short throat that I later throated out alittle further then the damn short SAAMI specs for the 260 Rem. With the base of the bullet even with the botton of the neck they snug up better then 45 2.1's bullets, probably because they are fatter more closer to the tip or nose of the bullet. They are just about the same length.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Joe-

Remember mine were a different alloy, it does make a difference. Water dropped, the wheelweights will be harder and engrave differently.

[StarMetal]

Bob,

These bullets were just about 50/50 ww's and lead.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Did you water drop or oven treat them. I recommend you oven treat that 1/2 & 1/2 alloy. Water dropped that alloy won't usually get over 18 BHN. Might need to be harder. You oven treated mine.

[StarMetal]

When I said just about 50/50, closer to 65/35 . They are harder then yours. I oven treated yours and water quenched these new ones. The sizing of them was much harder and the nose punch hardly leaves a mark and it doesn't fit the nose perfect. On yours the nose punch rounded off that little nub where the hollow point use to be.

I'll let them cure some.

Joe

[Buckshot]

...........Joe, I don't know how you loaded your ammo, but 2" groups at 100 yards isn't a dismal failure in my book. Scope or not. In the shooting I did with the 122gr HP Lymans I hadn't cast up enough before selling the mould to experiment much. I used the powder I'd always used before, for the heavier slugs, and that was WC872.

I was up to 2000 fps and still had creditable accuracy at 50 yards from the M96 Swede. If these do top out at around 1900 fps or so, that's still a 200 fps gain over the 1650-1700 fps threshold with the heavier slugs.

I'm still doing work with the Tubal 2000 powder in a couple calibers so my casting and shooting any of these new 6.5's is a couple weeks away yet. I look forward to doing so. With that 6 cavity job, it shouldn't take much time to generate a goodly batch of'em to fool around with.

..............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Rick,

I used my scoped Jap Arisaka sporter I built. That same rifle shoots 45 2.1's bullets in just less then an inch. So these new bullets should shoot just as well and they probably will when I get finished messing with them. The load is RP brass, Win LR primer, 26, 26.5, 27, and 27.5 grs of surplus 4895, and a tuff of Dacron. Base of bullet loaded even with base of neck. The snup up nice when chambered. No leading at all in the barrel and I mean none, the patches just show black from powder carbon. These were shot from the bench.

I thought the purpose of the new bullet was to get the Swede up to more speed? Don't forget, even though you mentioned I got the speed up from where it had been, that Rick, my barrel is a 1 in 9 twist. That should be more cast friendly then the Swedes. I'm beginning to wonder if the problem with the 6.5 being difficult is more the caliber then the rifling. I'd like to see some different rifling in various guns to do a test, but that is a bit beyond doing it easily and economically.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

The intent was to get it to work "Mo-Betta" all the way around, not just speed. The speed stuff was just a prediction of "more would be possible" off the CBI sheet, that's all. Remember for plinking uses you don't need more fps speed for plinking anyway.

Plinking rattles pop cans, barks trees and puts little round holes in paper.

Heck, the weight & meplat of this little slug could put it up in the hunting class for the small NC big-dog-sized deer anyway. 130 grains ain't no sneeze, especially if it were hardened it would penetrate all the way through and do its dirty work just off the as-cast meplat.

(if you can go faster with it though, if you can't go faster then I'd still plan to sling a dead-soft 1,650 fps cruise missle at a deer -- you might have two or three of them standing side by side to take good advantage of all that extra penetration)

The theortical challenge the little 6.5 Kurtz LEE slug faced was would it - could it run all the way down the long Carl Gustav throat and eventually find the rifling and 1) still stay on-center and 2) still be accurate. It was a worst-case test scenario, being up against the Karlina spin-dizzy curse and all.

Such results mighta coulda started up a whole caliber series of short loverin style bullets of various throat filling fat diameters that would fit length-wise in the six hole LEE blocks.

We shall see. We shall see.


Oldfeller

[StarMetal]

Well you know, the recommended bullet for deer with the 260 Rem is a 120 gr. I'm talking jacketed here. Look at the 270 Win, it built it's reputation on the 130 gr jacketed. I was kind of hoping to shoot a deer with this new bullet and still possibly might. I wanted the higher speed for groundhogs and crows. Don't forget that the readings we get are near the muzzle and by the time it gets to 100 yards it's slowed down quite a bit, so that's why I want a little more muzzle velocity...with accuracy. Hey give it time, Bob may be right about letting the bullets cure two weeks or so. I'll repeat the test and see if that makes a difference. I'm anxious to hear how it does in a REAL Swede that you fellows own.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

Keep in mind that 200 yards is about as far as you can practically "dope out" the drop factor on ANY cast bullet that get started out at around 1,650 fps.

(and that is with shooting the 6.5 cruise missile having over a .5 BC factor to help it fly flatter over the longer distances)

The 6.5 Kurtz needs to move out quicker than the cruise missile to have any sort of hunting advantage. Otherwise, it is simply nice and easy to cast up a bunch of the 6.5 Kurz for plinking uses because of the six up mold blocks.

Hey, nobody said Karlina was going to be easy -- she only gives out when she wants to.

Oldfeller

[45 2.1]

Keep in mind that 200 yards is about as far as you can practically "dope out" the drop factor on ANY cast bullet that get started out at around 1,650 fps.Oldfeller

Not Hardly!! You need better sights. You don't have trouble until the bullet gets in the transonic range and destabilizes. Militaries and BPCR sights are wonderfull for these activities.

[StarMetal]

I'll have to agree with Bob on that one Kelly. I have a picture of a 45-70 bullet here. It's an RCBS 405 gascheck, cast from ww's aircooled. It's taken out of a whitetail doe that went about 200 pounds. I shot her with my Browning 1886 Winchester repro carbine. Load was 4895 powder to give a muzzle velocity of about 1850. I shot this deer running off a hand and distance was about 200 yards. Lucky shot, I could never duplicate that again!! The rifle was sighted dead on at 70 yards. It wears receiver sights. Why did I take the shot? Well, earlier that season I spotted a salt block that someone put out in the middle of the woods and interesting it was in the same location I shot the doe. Well it was a good 200 yards away. I took a shot at it to see how much my 45-70 bullet, that was sighted at 70 yards remember, would drop. Well, damn thing shattered the block. Apparently 70 yards and 200 yards must coinside. Guess the bc went out the window in this case..or was it just pure luck twice.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Bob,

You must have watched alot of John Wayne movies...he said "Not Hardly" alot in them.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

I use a 12x max magnification scope now, it's not the accuracy that I am questioning (although I should, simple gun cant can get you at those sorts of distances) -- it is second guessing the drop amount over unknown hunting distances.

You are talking around 14+ inches of drop out past 200 yards, holding "even with the deer's back" simply quits working beyond that distance.

Plus, 200+ yards is a long way in my woods -- a very long way. That's over one valley past the peak of the next valley -- a long long way to see a deer much less shoot at it.

Oldfeller

[Oldfeller]

Ah, the infamous "raise the military sight ladder" or "screw up the BP tang sight"

-- I am way too poor sighted for that kind of iron sight stuff -- Type 2 diabetes does things to you over the years I am afraid and one of them is progressively more screwy eyes.

Scopes and simple point blank sighting theory rules my long distance thinking. That's simply how she is.

Yeah, I know people shoot Quigley shoots with BP sights at up to 1,000 yards and hit stuff reliably -- but those are known practiced distances that have the rainbow all doped out in advance.

Oldfeller

[StarMetal]

Second guessing the drop isn't the problem. If you have a chrono and get the velocity of your load and have the bc of the bullet you can figure the drop good enough for deer size hunting. It's second guessing the distance, unless you have one of those niffy rangefinders. Two hundred yards isn't that far. Granted it is in thick woods like you say. There are alot of us here that can hit smaller objects at two hundred yards with handguns. When my best friend and I shot informal steel targets we both were consistantly hitting the 50 meter chickens except placed at 200 meters with our handguns.

Joe

[45 2.1]

With Joes setup on his sights, he can get a point blank range that doesn't let the bullet get over 5" above or below the line of sight to that 200 yards. That '86 carbine has post front and square notch rear plus a ladder. It will shoot accurately as far as you have sights for. Scovill and the Shootists shoot at rocks on a hillside 750 yards away and hit them with such rifles. At home you could get 400 yard shots across a fourty if this state allowed rifles, which it doesn't. It all depends where you hunt and the conditions you are used to.

[StarMetal]

Kelly,

Nothing wrong with shooting with a scope if your eyesight dictates so. My eyesight isn't so either and really pisses me off knowing what I was able to do with iron sights. Anyways don't feel less of a shooter if you have to use a scope. The job is to get the bullet to it's intended target no matter what means you use. I just hope with diabetes that you don't get that condition where your retina starts to detach. Had an uncle like that and my best friend is getting large floaters in his vision. I'm worried about him, his family has a history of diabetes. They are making remarkable progress in that field. The latest I heard is that they found out that gila monster lizard's saliva helps it alot. You see a gila monster only eats like once or twice a year, but somehow it still maintains it's proper sugar level. They found out the salivia was the reason, thus entrails into human diabetes help.

Joe

[swheeler]

Come on Joe tell the truth! That wasn't ww, it was Anti-Grav AREA 51 Alloy(developed by 45-2.1) mold was special designed flying wing(by oldfeller) and the shot was actually at 800+ yds, over your shoulder sighting with the rearview mirror off your chevy powered funnycar!!!!!!!!!! QUIT BEING SO MODEST! BRAG A LITTLE! IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL TALLER!!
Scooter

[45 2.1]

Come on Joe tell the truth! That wasn't ww, it was Anti-Grav AREA 51 Alloy(developed by 45-2.1) mold was special designed flying wing(by oldfeller) and the shot was actually at 800+ yds, over your shoulder sighting with the rearview mirror off your chevy powered funnycar!!!!!!!!!! QUIT BEING SO MODEST! BRAG A LITTLE! IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL TALLER!!
Scooter

This is out of line!

[StarMetal]

Scooter,

You been hitting alittle too much of anti-freeze strained through bread?

Joe

[Scrounger]

Scooter,

You been hitting a little too much of anti-freeze strained through bread?

Joe

Is that another old Navy drink, Joe? I heard of torpedo juice with grapefruit juice, and everyone's favorite, Aqua Velva...

[StarMetal]

Art,

My best friend in the Navy was the Oil King on our ship. That is he was in charged of making sure the ship geting refueled. Once he has to run a special test on the oil that involved the use of "torpedo juice", we of course speak of the alcohol. Well the alcohol come in a pint can. He only needed about less then a half a cap full for the test. So we heard all the stories about torpedo juice so decided to sample it. We poured alittle in the cap and tried a sip, and I mean "tried". Damn, dang near killed us. So we decided it needed to be mixed with something. Down the mess decks we go and got some orange juice. Do you know that even a half a cap full in a whole dixie cup of orange juice was undrinkable to us? How in tar nations did they drink that crap?

On the Aqua Veva...once in the shower room shaving another sailor shaving along side and I got to talking about drinking various crap like shaving lotion. Well at least he did. I said "nah". At that point he pulled Aqua Velva out of his shaving kit bag, unscrews the cap, and take a big swig. I packed up and got the hell out of there. I was just a young kid that had never been out of PA at that time and had never seen the likes of some of those fellows on that ship. That's something how you mentioned Aqua Velva and that's exactly what he drank. Is that the prefered brand to drink?

Joe

[swheeler]

Joe; actually I had a liken' for 12 year old OLD CHARTER, when it became unavailable I had to settle for Jack Black, not quite as smooth but still a good sippin' whiskey! I have seen the Nates drink gas line antifreeze and sterno though, they seemed kinda normal! he-he-he-he
Scooter

[brimic]

This is going to be the first bullet I'm going to need to use my lubrisizer for. Can anyone give me a hint on what top punch to order for this boolit? I'm using a Lyman 450.

[Buckshot]

............I sure can't :D I'm just gonna paw through them and find one that won't mangle the nose too bad and use that one. I may have to make one up on the lathe otherwise. With that flat nose cranking one out will be the matter of a couple minutes even if I have to change collets!

...............Buckshot