What would you offer?

[hpdrifter]

I have a chance to pick up a Springfield Trap Door.;rifle, full stock with cleaning rod along with what I think is an Egyptian Rolling block. No caliber marking on it except maybe in Egyptian, which I can't read. It's got a tag on it that says "45/70???" I think maybe it a 43, but looking at the bore there's not that much difference. Of course, 43 and 45 maybe hard to differentiate with my eyes.

Both are in pretty rough shape. Being kept(for 4-5 years now) by a non-firearms type guy and they're just piled into a gun safe. No care for bumps and bruises, of course a few more wouldn't do em much harm.

The bores look pretty sound, the actions seem fairly tite. The rolling block doesn't have any wiggle but the trapdoor, when opened, has a little slop. Normal?
They have fresh surface rust all over them from being unkept.

The wood..........well it's wood I think. It's dark, dark, almost black

The trapdoor would probably shoot now with mild black powder loads.
I'm thinking the rolling block would have to be a project.

The owner is a fairly good friend of mine. I'm not aching for these rifles, but they'd be ok for the right price. I really don't know what these rifles would go for in what I call rough shape.

Any input what you might offer someone you know without trying to hurt their feelings.

I wished I'd thought to get pictures, but they are rough to me.

Thanks

[Wayne Smith]

First, wiggle in trapdoor when it's open is normal and expected. As to price, I can't help you because I'll bet the prices are different there than on the East coast.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd dig around on Gunbroker and a few other sites that handle antiques.
See what they are going for, maybe pay & join Gunbroker so you can access what they actually sell for.

As an informed consumer, make a offer from there depending on how bad you want them,
and how bad or how much work he's willing to do to sell them.

[Drm50]

Not enough info to make an informed estimate. Non gun person with gun safe?

[Shawlerbrook]

GB has a bunch of Trapdoors with a large price range. Like said above, way more information would be needed for a accurate appraisal, but $400-500 for the Trapdoor and $200-300 for the RB would be a good starting price. Like said above, with more information those prices might be off by a lot.

[hpdrifter]

GB has a bunch of Trapdoors with a large price range. Like said above, way more information would be needed for a accurate appraisal, but $400-500 for the Trapdoor and $200-300 for the RB would be a good starting price. Like said above, with more information those prices might be off by a lot.

what more information?

[tbx-4]

what more information?

Photos would be a good start. Especially any and all markings on barrel and stock of each rifle. Detail photos of the actions and wood.

[Jniedbalski]

Do the bores look decent. No major deep rust pits. Do they open and operate ok? If they look bad that drops the price a lot. But if it’s only small surface rust and they are sound 200 to 350 $ for the trapdore and for the Egyptian 150$ to 200$ that’s all I would pay unless they are in better shape than they look. I may be cheep but I only buy guns I can make money on. I hardly ever sell a gun but when I do it’s more than I pay for it. I always thank of it as a investment.. if I can’t sell it in a year or 20 years for more money I don’t need it. That’s just me. Still looking for a trapdoors at my price.350$ or less. Haven’t found one yet

[NyFirefighter357]

I know this is blasphemy here but I wouldn't pay $200 combined! I have no interest except maybe wall hangers.

Check this link https://trapdoorcollector.com/

[Shawlerbrook]

There are also different versions of the Trapdoor that have different value.

[jugulater]

trapdoor collecting is very intricate as these guns went through a plethora of improvements throughout their lifespan. the older the gun and the less improvements it has added raise the value. early rifles and carbines in original condition can get over $1,000 even in average condition. on the other end of the scale the later Trapdoors are very common and have little collector value.

for example, i have an 1873 Rifle that is a first year production gun and has had no updates, it had a fairly rough life and shows what i would call honest wear. i paid $800 for it with bayonet and didn’t hesitate

i also have an 1884 model with all the features common to a very late gun and i paid $500 for it after beating them down on the price. it’s in very well preserved condition.

as for the rolling block Egyptian guns in “average” condition are usually beat to hell and don’t go for more than $300. a nice one without the sights worn off is worth significantly more. also some were sent to france during the Franco-Prussian war, that may be something to watch for.

The egyptian rolling blocks were chambered for a stubby cartridge often referred to as 43 Egyptian nowadays. i don’t think it should chamber a 45-70 cartridge but i may be wrong.

[DeadWoodDan]

I'll second the price range on TD's. I was lucky enough to add a carbine to my long rifle some years back. The gentleman had it hanging in his living room, never shot it and knew very little about it other than what his local fun shop valued it at. I left with that carbine for $850 and that was at least 8yrs ago.

[Chill Wills]

Is the Springfield a rifle - or a carbine? and is it a 45 GOVT. or a 50 GOVT. Then sub models are very helpful from there. The Rolling block as a beater has very little value < $100-150 other than to be rebuilt into something. And that is a money pit unless you are the one able to build it. There are SO many junky Rem rollers in the world they have little value. You really have to look to find someone willing to take it on.
Just my 2 cents.

[marlinman93]

I think the Egyptian Roller is easy to guesstimate from the description, and not many variations. Bet it's .43 Egyptian, and tough to find brass for. I wouldn't go over $250, and likely more like $200.
The Trapdoor is the tough one. Need to know barrel length, dates and markings on action, sideplate, stock cartouches if legible. It can vary a lot, even in dark, or ugly shape.

[1Hawkeye]

Around here a trapdoor that matches your description would be a 300 - 400 rifle as for the Egyptian if its a real remington I'd say 175-200 but if its an Egyptian made gun I would pass due to questionable metallurgy.

[marlinman93]

Around here a trapdoor that matches your description would be a 300 - 400 rifle as for the Egyptian if its a real remington I'd say 175-200 but if its an Egyptian made gun I would pass due to questionable metallurgy.

Actually the Egyptian made are very good quality metallurgy as they were made from Swedish steels, and production was overseen by Swedish engineers from Husqvarna, and Carl Gustav factories. Never would have any concern about metallurgy with a Swede gun, or an Egyptian Roller.

[jugulater]

i have also never heard of any Rolling blocks with questionable metallurgy. both Egyptian made Rollers and Martini Henrys are just fine.

even Afghan arsenal made Martinis and Nepalese sniders are perfectly safe with the intended black powder loads.

now “khyber pass” guns are different, i am only talking about actual arsenal made guns, not one-off hand made tourist toys.

[Geezer in NH]

Condition as stated $500 for both would be my top offer

[1Hawkeye]

I didn't know the Egyptians used Swedish steel & engineers that Bofors steel is nice stuff. I was basing my opinion on Egyptian rollers Iv'e seen that were not Remington marked and looked like they were cobbled together in uncle Farouk's garage.

[marlinman93]

I didn't know the Egyptians used Swedish steel & engineers that Bofors steel is nice stuff. I was basing my opinion on Egyptian rollers Iv'e seen that were not Remington marked and looked like they were cobbled together in uncle Farouk's garage.

I haven't come across any "cobbled together" Egyptian Rollers? So I can't answer why they'd be of sub par levels? I have seen a number of them that appeared to be arsenal reworked and those wouldn't have been supervised or overseen by Swedish engineers as they were long gone by then. Those reworks often have headspace issues, poor fitting, and generally seem tossed together at random. But the parts used were all good parts, just examples of poor gunsmithing by Egyptian armorers in a hurry to assemble them before selling them off.

[hpdrifter]

I know this is blasphemy here but I wouldn't pay $200 combined! I have no interest except maybe wall hangers.

Check this link https://trapdoorcollector.com/




Condition as stated $500 for both would be my top offer

I'm somewhere between these. I hate to go bother the man to get more information and pictures just to low ball offer.

Next time I go over, he has already stated he's gonna give me a "hard" sell and no reasonable offer refused, so I'll take some pictures and measurements.

[Jedman]

Question is ..... Do you really want to own these rifles and have a “ project” ? I buy guns like this all the time but I have a shop, tools, time and actually like bringing guns back to life.
I personally don’t own any wall hangers, Anything I buy has to be able to be made shootable or I am not interested. Wish you luck !

Jed

[hpdrifter]

Question is ..... Do you really want to own these rifles and have a “ project” ? I buy guns like this all the time but I have a shop, tools, time and actually like bringing guns back to life.
I personally don’t own any wall hangers, Anything I buy has to be able to be made shootable or I am not interested. Wish you luck !

Jed

Yep, the million dollar question. Someday, I'd like to. got most of the tools, just lack the want to.....at the moment.

[marlinman93]

Project rifles were all I could afford when I was younger and raising a bunch of kids. So I cut my teeth on buying junk that others walked away from, and fixing them up to add to my collection. Now when I can afford to buy nicer guns, it's almost a disappointment to buy a gun that needs nothing done to it. I usually tear them down to basic parts, just to make sure nothing is wrong, or ready to break. But if they don't need anything it leaves me with a nice gun, but no repairs to do. I kinda enjoy finding things to fix on guns, and still like to buy project guns more than perfect guns.

[725]

Can't speak authoritatively on price. I think the market varies widely depending your area and local trends. I was given a .43 Egyptian that was so badly kept that the wood was dry and the bore rusted. The exterior was of a normal pantina that really needed oiling and rubbing. The stock drank in some "Lin-Speed" oil, which really even the various splinters & shrinkage. I took it to Bob Hoyt and he did a re-line into a .45-70, and man-oh-man, it shoots great now. Still working out plinker & hunting loads, but I plan on having some fun with this one. Most of my friends don't have experience with historical arms, and although this one isn't actually historical anymore because of the caliber conversion, it's close enough.